Mr TOYNE - 1999-11-23
Last Thursday, he met with the federal Minister for Education, David Kemp. During that meeting, he told the minister that he knew little about delivering services in the Territory, to which he replied: ‘I don’t need to - that’s your job’. During that meeting, it is reported, the minister told him that the NT government would need to do more than tinker around the edges, and that significant increases in resources were needed to avert a social disaster. Why did the Chief Minister tell the federal minister that he doubted that he could take Cabinet with him on an issue of funding remote education appropriately?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, that is an interesting story. I did meet with the federal Minister for Education. He was very concerned about the so-called crisis in Aboriginal indigenous education in the Territory and at one stage was of a mind to point out to me where the Territory government’s responsibilities lay, in his opinion.
I did remind him that the Northern Territory government spends about $130m of our money while the Commonwealth contributes $10m of their money on the IESIP program and $6m in other programs. I also reminded him that the issues of Aboriginal education needed to be finely defined, in my opinion, with regard to where the Collins report is coming from. It is coming from, specifically, the poor outcomes on Aboriginal communities for those students who speak English as a second language and live in a tribal and remote situation with all of the disadvantages we all know arise from that situation in general terms. There are some good stories, of course.
The issue essentially, I said to the federal education minister, is a very complex one, and one need not be reminded of the complexity of the problem. There have been any number of reports written on the general issue of poor outcomes not only in education but also in health and various other issues that we all know disadvantage Aboriginal people.
Therefore, the crux of my comments to the federal education minister was this. There is no magic lever that one pulls which fixes the problem overnight. Trying to find these magic levers is one of the reasons - not only in education but also in health, where I have had a great deal of experience - for further duplication, for further waste, for programs that are partly funded for some period of time and then fall away. All they do is raise peoples expectations.
I’m sure that not one Territorian walks away, or wants to walk away, from the issue of poor outcomes in indigenous education. But there is another step to take. That is to analyse how complex the situation is and look at where the money is currently being targeted. Let us see where better outcomes can be gained from the money that’s currently being spent before we shift further resources into that area.
Frankly, I believe there is a problem in the essence of indigenous education in the Northern Territory. It lies in the belief that a person can be encouraged to live in the remotest parts of Australia with all of the disadvantages that accrue from that, can be encouraged to see their cultural attributes as being the most significant attributes, can be led to believe that there are job prospects for all in that remote situation, and somehow be motivated to embrace Western educational concepts. I believe that that’s essentially where the social professors, predominantly led by the Whitlam Labor government and Labor governments over many years have gone precisely wrong when it comes to Aboriginal people. We should be ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: Look, I’ll be criticised for these remarks but it’s about time it was said. I think most Territorians, and most Australians, accept this. And that’s one of the reasons why most Australians are becoming increasingly desensitised to the social bloody architects who are encouraging people that there is some outcome in life from living ...
Ms MARTIN: A point of order, Mr Speaker! I don’t think ‘bloody’ is appropriate language.
Mr SPEAKER: It may not be appropriate but it’s hardly a point of order.
Mr BURKE: That the social architects can encourage people that there is maana and some light at the end of the rainbow in some of the remotest areas of Australia and the Northern Territory and there are job prospects available. There are none. There will be some successes, but what we need to do is try to motivate people as to the advantages of Western education, and that motivation is simply not there.
The message I gave the federal education minister was this: ‘Don’t tell me about a crisis. Don’t try to embarrass the Northern Territory government because we are not embarrassed. We are working diligently on many programs in many areas – health, education and housing - using the limited resources that are available to the Northern Territory’. I have said on many occasions that ...
Mr Ah Kit interjecting.
Mr BURKE: As an ex-chairman of the Northern Land Council, which has squandered millions of dollars in royalties, you should be ashamed of yourself to try to or even suppose that you can lecture the Northern Territory government on poor outcomes.
We will work as best we can to improve the outcomes that we are currently achieving. There is no doubt of the priority that this government affords to that. We will ensure that we try to get better outcomes where possible. I have said to the federal education minister we will join in pilot programs to see where some of those outcomes can be achieved, but we will do it in a considered...
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr BURKE: No, we will do it in a considered way. The member for Nhulunbuy said there is not...
Mr Stirling: You have a responsibility to govern all Territorians, not just behind the Berrimah Line.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr BURKE: It is, as Bob Collins ...
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for Nhulunbuy is treading on very dangerous ground at present. I ask you to tone it down. Just remember that we can hear you without the yelling.
Mr BURKE: It is, as Bob Collins rightly says, everyone’s responsibility. It is too easy to lay the blame on just one aspect.
While I’m on it, the member for Arnhem, the ex-chairman of the Northern Land Council, has plenty to giggle and gaggle about. Let’s just talk about ...
Mr AH KIT: A point of order, Mr Speaker! I was never the chairman of the Northern Land Council. I am the ex-director.
Mr BURKE: A paid employee, not elected. Right, my mistake. While I’m on that point, of the stupidity and farce that’s carrying on with regard to Aboriginal issues generally, let’s talk about Jabiluka for a moment. Let’s talk about the millions of dollars of royalties that have been wasted at the Ranger uranium mine in that area. Let’s talk about the sort of stuff that Jacqui Katona’s running around out there at the moment, saying that the NLC has walked away from discussions on milling at Ranger for 5 years. The Ranger uranium mine has 5 to 8 years of life left in it.
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr BURKE: You listen! You listen! The Ranger uranium mine has 5 ...
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: I’ll tell you, I’ll go out there and see what support I get from Territorians. You see what support you get.
The Ranger uranium mine has 5 to 8 years of life left in it and that company, ERA, works on 10-year contracts. I am sure in my own mind that the tactic of Jacqui Katona and others, maintaining that the option of milling at Jabiluka is the only one, is a delaying tactic. Then they’ll come up with some sacred sites issue to stop that mine completely. In the meantime, Ranger is being totally expended.
They’re running around there saying: ‘Life will be wonderful. There’ll be no uranium mining. There’ll still be the Gagudju hotel and we’ll have a wonderful tourist venture. Jabiru as a township will still be there. Life will be wonderful without ERA’. Well, I’ll tell you what will happen. They’ll have pristine wilderness, that’s what they’ll have. If that’s what you want, if the Aboriginal people who are enjoying the royalties of the Ranger uranium mine want to forsake that, that is what they’ll get.
The Northern Territory government is currently looking at extending power out to that mine. But that won’t happen unless there is some certainty with regard to the Jabiluka mine and the ongoing operation of ERA. Jabiru as a township will die, and royalties will stop. And you turn around and ask the Northern Territory government: ‘What are you doing?’ You squander millions and millions of dollars of royalties. This is money that we can all work together with, in getting better outcomes in housing and health and education and other areas.
If we want to be serious about better outcomes for Aboriginal people, let’s just start using the resources that we currently have available, rather than running the stupidity and high farce that’s going on out there at the moment, stopping that mine and suggesting to Aboriginal people that life will go on as before. It won’t.
On the issue of Aboriginal education, the Collins report is something the government is taking seriously. We have given instructions to set up an interdepartmental working party with the Commonwealth. We will see how we can get better outcomes using the recommendations of that report and others, leading to some pilot programs. But this government will not be committing additional money to indigenous education until we are sure that the money that is being spent is being properly targeted.
That includes working on some of the recommendations from Collins that some of the stupid programs that came from social scientists over the years be dispensed with, motivating Aboriginal families and children as to the importance of Western education, and not taking our eye off what is the whole game - better education for Territorians.
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, that is an interesting story. I did meet with the federal Minister for Education. He was very concerned about the so-called crisis in Aboriginal indigenous education in the Territory and at one stage was of a mind to point out to me where the Territory government’s responsibilities lay, in his opinion.
I did remind him that the Northern Territory government spends about $130m of our money while the Commonwealth contributes $10m of their money on the IESIP program and $6m in other programs. I also reminded him that the issues of Aboriginal education needed to be finely defined, in my opinion, with regard to where the Collins report is coming from. It is coming from, specifically, the poor outcomes on Aboriginal communities for those students who speak English as a second language and live in a tribal and remote situation with all of the disadvantages we all know arise from that situation in general terms. There are some good stories, of course.
The issue essentially, I said to the federal education minister, is a very complex one, and one need not be reminded of the complexity of the problem. There have been any number of reports written on the general issue of poor outcomes not only in education but also in health and various other issues that we all know disadvantage Aboriginal people.
Therefore, the crux of my comments to the federal education minister was this. There is no magic lever that one pulls which fixes the problem overnight. Trying to find these magic levers is one of the reasons - not only in education but also in health, where I have had a great deal of experience - for further duplication, for further waste, for programs that are partly funded for some period of time and then fall away. All they do is raise peoples expectations.
I’m sure that not one Territorian walks away, or wants to walk away, from the issue of poor outcomes in indigenous education. But there is another step to take. That is to analyse how complex the situation is and look at where the money is currently being targeted. Let us see where better outcomes can be gained from the money that’s currently being spent before we shift further resources into that area.
Frankly, I believe there is a problem in the essence of indigenous education in the Northern Territory. It lies in the belief that a person can be encouraged to live in the remotest parts of Australia with all of the disadvantages that accrue from that, can be encouraged to see their cultural attributes as being the most significant attributes, can be led to believe that there are job prospects for all in that remote situation, and somehow be motivated to embrace Western educational concepts. I believe that that’s essentially where the social professors, predominantly led by the Whitlam Labor government and Labor governments over many years have gone precisely wrong when it comes to Aboriginal people. We should be ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: Look, I’ll be criticised for these remarks but it’s about time it was said. I think most Territorians, and most Australians, accept this. And that’s one of the reasons why most Australians are becoming increasingly desensitised to the social bloody architects who are encouraging people that there is some outcome in life from living ...
Ms MARTIN: A point of order, Mr Speaker! I don’t think ‘bloody’ is appropriate language.
Mr SPEAKER: It may not be appropriate but it’s hardly a point of order.
Mr BURKE: That the social architects can encourage people that there is maana and some light at the end of the rainbow in some of the remotest areas of Australia and the Northern Territory and there are job prospects available. There are none. There will be some successes, but what we need to do is try to motivate people as to the advantages of Western education, and that motivation is simply not there.
The message I gave the federal education minister was this: ‘Don’t tell me about a crisis. Don’t try to embarrass the Northern Territory government because we are not embarrassed. We are working diligently on many programs in many areas – health, education and housing - using the limited resources that are available to the Northern Territory’. I have said on many occasions that ...
Mr Ah Kit interjecting.
Mr BURKE: As an ex-chairman of the Northern Land Council, which has squandered millions of dollars in royalties, you should be ashamed of yourself to try to or even suppose that you can lecture the Northern Territory government on poor outcomes.
We will work as best we can to improve the outcomes that we are currently achieving. There is no doubt of the priority that this government affords to that. We will ensure that we try to get better outcomes where possible. I have said to the federal education minister we will join in pilot programs to see where some of those outcomes can be achieved, but we will do it in a considered...
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr BURKE: No, we will do it in a considered way. The member for Nhulunbuy said there is not...
Mr Stirling: You have a responsibility to govern all Territorians, not just behind the Berrimah Line.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr BURKE: It is, as Bob Collins ...
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for Nhulunbuy is treading on very dangerous ground at present. I ask you to tone it down. Just remember that we can hear you without the yelling.
Mr BURKE: It is, as Bob Collins rightly says, everyone’s responsibility. It is too easy to lay the blame on just one aspect.
While I’m on it, the member for Arnhem, the ex-chairman of the Northern Land Council, has plenty to giggle and gaggle about. Let’s just talk about ...
Mr AH KIT: A point of order, Mr Speaker! I was never the chairman of the Northern Land Council. I am the ex-director.
Mr BURKE: A paid employee, not elected. Right, my mistake. While I’m on that point, of the stupidity and farce that’s carrying on with regard to Aboriginal issues generally, let’s talk about Jabiluka for a moment. Let’s talk about the millions of dollars of royalties that have been wasted at the Ranger uranium mine in that area. Let’s talk about the sort of stuff that Jacqui Katona’s running around out there at the moment, saying that the NLC has walked away from discussions on milling at Ranger for 5 years. The Ranger uranium mine has 5 to 8 years of life left in it.
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr BURKE: You listen! You listen! The Ranger uranium mine has 5 ...
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: I’ll tell you, I’ll go out there and see what support I get from Territorians. You see what support you get.
The Ranger uranium mine has 5 to 8 years of life left in it and that company, ERA, works on 10-year contracts. I am sure in my own mind that the tactic of Jacqui Katona and others, maintaining that the option of milling at Jabiluka is the only one, is a delaying tactic. Then they’ll come up with some sacred sites issue to stop that mine completely. In the meantime, Ranger is being totally expended.
They’re running around there saying: ‘Life will be wonderful. There’ll be no uranium mining. There’ll still be the Gagudju hotel and we’ll have a wonderful tourist venture. Jabiru as a township will still be there. Life will be wonderful without ERA’. Well, I’ll tell you what will happen. They’ll have pristine wilderness, that’s what they’ll have. If that’s what you want, if the Aboriginal people who are enjoying the royalties of the Ranger uranium mine want to forsake that, that is what they’ll get.
The Northern Territory government is currently looking at extending power out to that mine. But that won’t happen unless there is some certainty with regard to the Jabiluka mine and the ongoing operation of ERA. Jabiru as a township will die, and royalties will stop. And you turn around and ask the Northern Territory government: ‘What are you doing?’ You squander millions and millions of dollars of royalties. This is money that we can all work together with, in getting better outcomes in housing and health and education and other areas.
If we want to be serious about better outcomes for Aboriginal people, let’s just start using the resources that we currently have available, rather than running the stupidity and high farce that’s going on out there at the moment, stopping that mine and suggesting to Aboriginal people that life will go on as before. It won’t.
On the issue of Aboriginal education, the Collins report is something the government is taking seriously. We have given instructions to set up an interdepartmental working party with the Commonwealth. We will see how we can get better outcomes using the recommendations of that report and others, leading to some pilot programs. But this government will not be committing additional money to indigenous education until we are sure that the money that is being spent is being properly targeted.
That includes working on some of the recommendations from Collins that some of the stupid programs that came from social scientists over the years be dispensed with, motivating Aboriginal families and children as to the importance of Western education, and not taking our eye off what is the whole game - better education for Territorians.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016