Mrs HICKEY - 1998-04-22
My question relates to the Senate replacement for Bob Collins. The fact is that the Executive Council has the power to put in place Labor's replacement Senator when parliament is not sitting. The Executive Council meets normally every month. Parliament has the power then to affirm the Executive Council's actions when it resumes sitting. Is it not a fact that the Chief Minister's threat this morning, to delay appointing Labor's replacement Senator until August - 3 months after Labor's nominee will be known - brings disgrace on himself and the office he holds? Does his outrageous threat have the backing of his Prime Minister or is he simply on his own?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, my observations - not a threat - have the backing of the law and the Australian Constitution. The Leader of the Opposition is wrong. I wish she would obtain some independent legal advice. However, she is not prepared even to look at it. The member for Arnhem shakes his head. You are wrong. In desperation, I have written to her today. I do not know whether she has the letter. I sent it across at about 9.40 am.
Mr Ah Kit interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Arnhem.
Mr STONE: After listening to the comments this morning on Fred McCue's program, I have come to the conclusion that I am dealing with someone who is palpably ignorant of the law. I appeal to the Leader of the Opposition to take some advice. The Executive Council cannot make this appointment. Don't you understand?
Mrs Hickey: Yes, it can.
Mr STONE: Take some advice. I have written to Kim Beazley also this morning and I have invited him to telephone Dr Gavan Griffith QC, a former Solicitor-General, who is advising this government. We do not have the power. We will break the law if we make the appointment through the Executive Council.
Mrs Hickey interjecting.
Mr STONE: You ignoramus! Why don't you go and get some advice? Have you ever seen this book before? It is Australian Senate Practice, by Odgers. Did it occur to the Leader of the Opposition to obtain a copy of this book and open it at page 130 where she would read ...
Mrs Hickey interjecting.
Mr STONE: Just listen! You are the one who has led with this question this morning. This is not a dorothy dixer. It was you who stood up here this morning and made a claim that is wrong in law. It was you who went on Fred McCue's program and made a complete dork of yourself because you do not know the law.
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I think 'dork' would probably rate with 'wanker'. I ask that it be withdrawn.
Madam SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
Mr STONE: I withdraw, Madam Speaker, to allow us to move on.
I refer the Leader of the Opposition to page 130. Let me send this across to her. I suggest she turn to page 130, which she should have done when she first started down this track. The member for Wanguri shakes his head, but he is as ignorant as the rest of them. At page 130, the Leader of the Opposition will see there what happened when Senator Valentine retired and what occurred in the Western Australian parliament. The delay there had been 4 months. Territory Labor is getting into 5 months on the current chronology. This was a Labor government in Western Australia. This was the government of Dr Carmen Lawrence - a Labor hero. The Leader of the Opposition really should look in this book. Subsequently, the Senate passed a resolution in the following terms:
The Senate:
believes that casual vacancies in the Senate should be filled as expeditiously as possible so that no state is
without its full representation in the Senate for any time longer than is necessary;
We do not disagree on that, do we?
recognises that, under section 15 of the Constitution, an appointment to a vacancy in the Senate may be delayed
because the Houses of the parliament of the relevant state
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are adjourned but have not been prorogued which, on a strict construction of the section, prevents the Governor
of the state making the appointment ....
Mrs Hickey: 'May'.
Mr STONE: Open the book. You are wrong in law because ...
Mr Bailey: 'May be delayed'. What does 'may' mean?
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Wanguri.
Mr Reed: If parliament is not sitting, it may be delayed. If it were sitting ...
Mr Bailey: In other words, you may choose to delay it.
Mr STONE: We are sitting, you goose! May I read it again, Madam Speaker?
Mr Bailey: He is talking about ...
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Wanguri.
Mr STONE: I shall read it again because it is obvious that members opposite suffer from attention deficit syndrome. They should listen. In fact, why not open the book and follow me through as I read. What is wrong with that? Why won't you accept that you are wrong? I shall read it again: '... recognises that, under section 15 of the Constitution, an appointment to a vacancy in the Senate may be delayed ...'
Ms Martin: 'May'. That is what we are pointing out.
Mr STONE: Yes, 'may' - `... because the Houses of parliament of the relevant state are adjourned but have not been prorogued which, on a strict construction of the section, prevents the Governor of the state making the appointment'. There is no 'may' there. It says 'prevents the Governor making the appointment'. You are wrong! Why not seek independent legal advice? Why don't you ask Fatty McNab at the university what his view on it is? You are wrong!
Let us look at the chronology.
Mr Bailey: What about June then?
Mr STONE: Oh, so you concede that I may be right?
Mr Bailey: No!
Mr STONE: Then it will be 6 months?
Mr Bailey: No!
Mr STONE: It will be 6 months - the longest time in Australia's constitutional history that any party has ever taken to choose a Senator. The member for Wanguri knows it.
I will go through the chronology. It was in April/May 1996 - and this is 1998 - that Bob Collins flagged his intention to resign from the front bench. It must have been obvious to all except Blind Freddy that he was on the homeward run. In fact, Bob Collins sat in the Senate for the final time on 5 December 1997. I make no criticism of that. He was doing other important work. On 6 February of this year, he announced his resignation. He advised subsequently ...
Members interjecting.
Mr STONE: Will you let me finish? I am sure ...
Mr Bailey: Get your facts right.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Wanguri, come to order!
Mr STONE: On 6 February, he announced his resignation from the Senate. He announced that he would be resigning ...
Mr Bailey: 'Would be'. It was not his resignation. You are picky with words. Use them properly. He did not resign in February.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Wanguri.
Mr STONE: I did not say that he did. I said that he announced his intention to resign from the Senate. He resigned subsequently on 30 March. We heard from the ALP's exalted and illustrious state secretary that the ALP had a Melbourne Cup field - 21 people had nominated at one stage, high-profile Territorians, all of that stuff. Of course, Tracker Tilmouth was out there running hard, ably assisted by the former MHR, Warren Snowdon, whom he had conveniently appointed to his staff. However, as
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Tracker has discovered, notwithstanding that he meets all the requirements of membership and everything else, he has been told not to bother. This is the Leader of the Opposition's democratic process! She climbed on radio to tell Territorians about the ALP's great democratic process, while the party was going around putting the frighteners on people: 'Don't you nominate! We don't want you. You are black. You are a troublemaker. You are the fellow who told Territorians that the ALP was hopeless before the last election. We do not want you'.
This situation continued for many months. Finally, we received a reply, in a letter from Mike Smith to the Deputy Chief Minister, that said we should not write to the Leader of the Opposition - that she was not in charge and he was. Yet it was she who went to Melbourne and Canberra to tell Kim Beazley not to intervene in the affairs of the Territory. What a joke! Now she said on radio this morning that, if I do not do what she wants, she will tell John Howard! Let me tell her that John Howard does not tell the Country Liberal Party what to do. This is the Territory party, unlike that lot opposite who take all their instructions from Canberra.
She asked this morning why we would not make an appointment through the Executive Council. Let me tell Territorians ...
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr STONE: If the member for Fannie Bay would be quiet, I will tell Territorians why we will not make an appointment by way of the Executive Council. It is because we are not prepared to breach the Constitution or break the law, even for the Labor Party which cannot get its act into gear. Go and get some advice. Go and talk to Gareth Evans. Ask him about it, after he has had his conversation with Dr Gavan Griffith. Find out what the true story is and what the law is. I urge the Leader of the Opposition to stay off the air waves until she knows what she is talking about. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Mr Bailey: Says the QC!
Mr STONE: Who got it right.
Mr Bailey: As you did with Bobby Liddle? You are still denying that one.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! We will not continue until members come to order. I do not mind how much time they waste. Member for Wanguri, you will not be here for long if you continue interjecting the way you have been this morning. It is far too much.
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ANSWER
Madam Speaker, my observations - not a threat - have the backing of the law and the Australian Constitution. The Leader of the Opposition is wrong. I wish she would obtain some independent legal advice. However, she is not prepared even to look at it. The member for Arnhem shakes his head. You are wrong. In desperation, I have written to her today. I do not know whether she has the letter. I sent it across at about 9.40 am.
Mr Ah Kit interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Arnhem.
Mr STONE: After listening to the comments this morning on Fred McCue's program, I have come to the conclusion that I am dealing with someone who is palpably ignorant of the law. I appeal to the Leader of the Opposition to take some advice. The Executive Council cannot make this appointment. Don't you understand?
Mrs Hickey: Yes, it can.
Mr STONE: Take some advice. I have written to Kim Beazley also this morning and I have invited him to telephone Dr Gavan Griffith QC, a former Solicitor-General, who is advising this government. We do not have the power. We will break the law if we make the appointment through the Executive Council.
Mrs Hickey interjecting.
Mr STONE: You ignoramus! Why don't you go and get some advice? Have you ever seen this book before? It is Australian Senate Practice, by Odgers. Did it occur to the Leader of the Opposition to obtain a copy of this book and open it at page 130 where she would read ...
Mrs Hickey interjecting.
Mr STONE: Just listen! You are the one who has led with this question this morning. This is not a dorothy dixer. It was you who stood up here this morning and made a claim that is wrong in law. It was you who went on Fred McCue's program and made a complete dork of yourself because you do not know the law.
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I think 'dork' would probably rate with 'wanker'. I ask that it be withdrawn.
Madam SPEAKER: There is no point of order.
Mr STONE: I withdraw, Madam Speaker, to allow us to move on.
I refer the Leader of the Opposition to page 130. Let me send this across to her. I suggest she turn to page 130, which she should have done when she first started down this track. The member for Wanguri shakes his head, but he is as ignorant as the rest of them. At page 130, the Leader of the Opposition will see there what happened when Senator Valentine retired and what occurred in the Western Australian parliament. The delay there had been 4 months. Territory Labor is getting into 5 months on the current chronology. This was a Labor government in Western Australia. This was the government of Dr Carmen Lawrence - a Labor hero. The Leader of the Opposition really should look in this book. Subsequently, the Senate passed a resolution in the following terms:
The Senate:
believes that casual vacancies in the Senate should be filled as expeditiously as possible so that no state is
without its full representation in the Senate for any time longer than is necessary;
We do not disagree on that, do we?
recognises that, under section 15 of the Constitution, an appointment to a vacancy in the Senate may be delayed
because the Houses of the parliament of the relevant state
Page 181
are adjourned but have not been prorogued which, on a strict construction of the section, prevents the Governor
of the state making the appointment ....
Mrs Hickey: 'May'.
Mr STONE: Open the book. You are wrong in law because ...
Mr Bailey: 'May be delayed'. What does 'may' mean?
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Wanguri.
Mr Reed: If parliament is not sitting, it may be delayed. If it were sitting ...
Mr Bailey: In other words, you may choose to delay it.
Mr STONE: We are sitting, you goose! May I read it again, Madam Speaker?
Mr Bailey: He is talking about ...
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Wanguri.
Mr STONE: I shall read it again because it is obvious that members opposite suffer from attention deficit syndrome. They should listen. In fact, why not open the book and follow me through as I read. What is wrong with that? Why won't you accept that you are wrong? I shall read it again: '... recognises that, under section 15 of the Constitution, an appointment to a vacancy in the Senate may be delayed ...'
Ms Martin: 'May'. That is what we are pointing out.
Mr STONE: Yes, 'may' - `... because the Houses of parliament of the relevant state are adjourned but have not been prorogued which, on a strict construction of the section, prevents the Governor of the state making the appointment'. There is no 'may' there. It says 'prevents the Governor making the appointment'. You are wrong! Why not seek independent legal advice? Why don't you ask Fatty McNab at the university what his view on it is? You are wrong!
Let us look at the chronology.
Mr Bailey: What about June then?
Mr STONE: Oh, so you concede that I may be right?
Mr Bailey: No!
Mr STONE: Then it will be 6 months?
Mr Bailey: No!
Mr STONE: It will be 6 months - the longest time in Australia's constitutional history that any party has ever taken to choose a Senator. The member for Wanguri knows it.
I will go through the chronology. It was in April/May 1996 - and this is 1998 - that Bob Collins flagged his intention to resign from the front bench. It must have been obvious to all except Blind Freddy that he was on the homeward run. In fact, Bob Collins sat in the Senate for the final time on 5 December 1997. I make no criticism of that. He was doing other important work. On 6 February of this year, he announced his resignation. He advised subsequently ...
Members interjecting.
Mr STONE: Will you let me finish? I am sure ...
Mr Bailey: Get your facts right.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Wanguri, come to order!
Mr STONE: On 6 February, he announced his resignation from the Senate. He announced that he would be resigning ...
Mr Bailey: 'Would be'. It was not his resignation. You are picky with words. Use them properly. He did not resign in February.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Wanguri.
Mr STONE: I did not say that he did. I said that he announced his intention to resign from the Senate. He resigned subsequently on 30 March. We heard from the ALP's exalted and illustrious state secretary that the ALP had a Melbourne Cup field - 21 people had nominated at one stage, high-profile Territorians, all of that stuff. Of course, Tracker Tilmouth was out there running hard, ably assisted by the former MHR, Warren Snowdon, whom he had conveniently appointed to his staff. However, as
Page 182
Tracker has discovered, notwithstanding that he meets all the requirements of membership and everything else, he has been told not to bother. This is the Leader of the Opposition's democratic process! She climbed on radio to tell Territorians about the ALP's great democratic process, while the party was going around putting the frighteners on people: 'Don't you nominate! We don't want you. You are black. You are a troublemaker. You are the fellow who told Territorians that the ALP was hopeless before the last election. We do not want you'.
This situation continued for many months. Finally, we received a reply, in a letter from Mike Smith to the Deputy Chief Minister, that said we should not write to the Leader of the Opposition - that she was not in charge and he was. Yet it was she who went to Melbourne and Canberra to tell Kim Beazley not to intervene in the affairs of the Territory. What a joke! Now she said on radio this morning that, if I do not do what she wants, she will tell John Howard! Let me tell her that John Howard does not tell the Country Liberal Party what to do. This is the Territory party, unlike that lot opposite who take all their instructions from Canberra.
She asked this morning why we would not make an appointment through the Executive Council. Let me tell Territorians ...
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr STONE: If the member for Fannie Bay would be quiet, I will tell Territorians why we will not make an appointment by way of the Executive Council. It is because we are not prepared to breach the Constitution or break the law, even for the Labor Party which cannot get its act into gear. Go and get some advice. Go and talk to Gareth Evans. Ask him about it, after he has had his conversation with Dr Gavan Griffith. Find out what the true story is and what the law is. I urge the Leader of the Opposition to stay off the air waves until she knows what she is talking about. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Mr Bailey: Says the QC!
Mr STONE: Who got it right.
Mr Bailey: As you did with Bobby Liddle? You are still denying that one.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! We will not continue until members come to order. I do not mind how much time they waste. Member for Wanguri, you will not be here for long if you continue interjecting the way you have been this morning. It is far too much.
Page 183
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016