2013-08-21
Madam Speaker Purick took the Chair at 10 am.
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, we have many visitors in parliament today. I advise of the presence in the gallery of Year 6 students from Wagaman Primary School accompanied by their teacher, Jenni Webber, and Year 5 students from St Paul’s school, accompanied by their teacher, Alain van Gurp. On behalf of honourable members, I extend a warm welcome to you and hope you enjoy your tour today at Parliament House.
Members: Hear, hear!
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, I advise of the presence in the gallery of members of the Independent Associated Seed Graders Conference. On behalf of honourable members, I extend a warm welcome to you also to Parliament House.
Members: Hear, hear!
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, I advise of the presence in the gallery of the Fibrecraft Guild from Humpty Doo. Welcome to Parliament House for your tour during Question Time and morning tea later.
Members: Hear, hear!
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, we have some very remarkable people who have walked all the way from Townsville to Darwin especially to be here for Question Time. Welcome! They are up there in the blue shirts ...
Mr Elferink: They are looking very tired, Madam Speaker.
Madam SPEAKER: Looking very tired and fit. Welcome, walkers from Townsville. You have been raising money for Legacy, an exceptional cause, so well done.
Members: Hear, hear!
Madam SPEAKER: Thank you to minister Westra van Holthe for helping you to be at Parliament House today.
Bill presented and read a first time.
Ms ANDERSON (Local Government): Madam Speaker, I move that the bill be now read a second time.
The purpose of this bill is to strengthen the existing local governance arrangements in regional and remote areas.
The Local Government Act sets out the legislative framework for local government in the Northern Territory, providing for a democratic system of local government, including municipal and shire councils. However, feedback received by this government so far has been that, as currently set out, local governments in regional and remote areas have not provided a voice for communities to influence or play a vital role in their governance.
The bill seeks to introduce a new category of councils; namely, regional councils. The area over which a regional council will have administrative responsibility will be referred to as a region. Regional councils will have similar functions, roles, and responsibilities to municipal and shire councils. However, unlike municipal and shire councils, regional councils will have local authorities. Local authorities will bring the voice of communities to the council table. They will have an active role in council decision-making, including budget decisions.
The chair of a local authority will be a council member who represents a relevant ward. This will ensure there is direct line and voice from local authorities to the council.
Local authorities will have a direct role in community planning which will contribute to the plan of a regional council.
The bill also provides for the minister to identify, through a Gazette notice, a part of any regional council that must have a local authority. The regional council must then establish the local authority as set out in ministerial guidelines.
Local authorities will consist of members of the regional council who represent the ward where the local authority is situated, and such other members of the community who are appointed by the council. The process leading to appointment will be explained in ministerial guidelines. As the chair of a local authority will be the council member who represents a ward within which the local authority is situated, we can be sure the voice of local authority is carried into every council meeting.
Members of the local authority may be paid allowances in line with ministerial guidelines. By the time this bill is to be debated, all the proposed guidelines will be publicly available.
The bill abolishes regional management plans that are currently provided for in the act. The original intent of regional management plans was twofold: (1) to encourage cooperation amongst councils in the same region and, (2) they outlined the core services which shire councils should provide and where those core services should be delivered. Feedback received from the sector has been that the regional management plans have failed to achieve their objectives. Regional management plans provide a very cumbersome way of specifying cooperative initiatives and core services. Councils have expressed frustration with having to participate in a process that has not provided any measurable gain. In light of this, regional management plans have been abolished. Councils do not need them to cooperate. Councils are able to cooperate with each other whenever it is convenient for them to do so.
However, regional management plans currently outline core services that shire councils should prioritise delivery of, and these have been useful in some circumstances. For this reason, the bill retains the power for the minister to specify, by Gazette notice, core services for any non-municipal council.
Due to the introduction of regional councils as the new category of local government councils, as well as the introduction of local authorities, the bill makes consequential amendments to other Territory legislation that refers to the local government sector. This includes the AustralAsia Railway (Special Provisions) Act, Darwin Port Corporation Act, Education (College and School Council) Regulations, Energy Pipelines Act, Evidence Act, Housing Act, Heritage Act, Interpretation Act, Jabiru Town Development Act, Kava Management Act, Liquor Act, Litter Act, Local Government (Administration) Regulations, Northern Territory Aboriginal Sacred Sites Regulations, Volatile Substance Abuse Prevention Act and the Volatile Substance Act Prevention Regulations.
The bill has much to recommend it as an example of this government listening to Territorians residing in regional and remote areas. It will ensure that existing local governance arrangement in those areas can be strengthened. The proposed amendments will allow us to give a voice on local governance matters back to regional and remote communities.
Madam Speaker, I commend this bill to honourable members and table the explanatory statement to accompany the bill.
Debate adjourned.
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Mr Deputy Speaker, by agreement with the opposition and by leave of this House I present this on behalf of the Chief Minister.
I move that a sessional committee, to be known as the Committee on the Northern Territory’s Energy Future, be appointed.
The committee’s membership is to comprise three government members, two opposition members and one Independent member. The committee shall elect a government member as chair. The committee may elect a deputy chair of the committee who may act as the chair when the chair is absent from a meeting or there is no chair of the committee. A quorum of the committee shall be three members of the committee.
The committee shall inquire into, report from time to time, and make recommendations regarding:
1. the Territory’s current energy capability
3. the prospect for additional energy resources
The committee will give priority to its terms of reference insofar as they apply to onshore energy sources.
The committee may appoint subcommittees comprising of two or more of its members and refer to any such subcommittee any matter which the committee may examine, and the quorum of the subcommittee shall be two.
The provisions of this resolution insofar as they are inconsistent with standing orders have effect notwithstanding anything contained in the standing orders.
I further move that the members of the Legislative Assembly, Mr Gary Higgins MLA, Ms Larisa Lee MLA and Mrs Bess Price MLA be appointed as government members of the Committee on the Northern Territory’s Energy Future.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank members of the opposition for indicating their preparedness to proceed with this committee and this debate today. However, I again extend the offer to the members opposite that if they want the matter adjourned they can still do so and indicate that during the debate.
In bringing forward this motion seeking the establishment of a parliamentary Sessional Committee on the Territory’s energy future we recognise that secure, reliable, and affordable energy will fuel economic growth. Future capacity must match increased investment in the development of the Territory.
One of the great concerns I have as a member of parliament is I all too often hear in relation to the Northern Territory the word ‘potential’ when I would much rather hear the word ‘actual’ relating to any number of issues, not least of which is the security of our energy supply.
This committee will have the important role of accessing our energy capability, future needs, and continuity of supply. Efforts will be concentrated on the supply and potential supply of energy resources. This strategic planning is a critical component for our future and our ability to bring people to the Northern Territory.
The draft Framing the Future blueprint launched this week defines our vision of a prosperous economy for the Northern Territory. Its objectives include an economy that unlocks the potential of our regions and provides critical infrastructure.
Our template for growth must encompass energy needs and reserves, capability required for the coming decades, all the options for a secure energy supply, delivery methodology and considerations for the most efficient, effective, and responsible use of our energy. It is clear the Northern Territory holds huge - nay, enormous - potential. We cannot say to the Northern Territory community, ‘Look at what is on the horizon!’, without providing a thoughtful strategy that takes into account every requirement for expansion. We cannot allow a state of mind that says, ‘It has always been good enough’. When we are in an era of rapid change and technological advances, ‘It has always been good enough’ will not pass muster.
Growth equates to demands and, therefore, must be matched by the provision of reliable energy supplies. We cannot invite new trading partners when we cannot properly accommodate all our future energy needs. We cannot constantly emphasise that we need a multilevel economy that also embraces tourism, the pastoral industry and agribusiness, mining and exports, Defence, and construction without the certain knowledge that planning for our energy future is under way.
The comparatively high cost of electricity is a fact in our history. Driven by the size of our market and the distance between other domestic markets, achieving an improvement in the fiscal situation and operation of Power and Water Corporation has been, and remains, an urgent priority.
A great deal of work is being done with regard to power generation and fuel efficiency. Power considerations for the future must also focus on alternative sources and affordable energy, land for power generation facilities and on-demand storage facilities, and corridors for distribution networks and connectivity, including mains and feeders to supply natural gas to homes and businesses.
Over the past years the Country Liberals have noted, both in opposition and during the past year in government, that precise steps must be taken to secure a positive path forward for the Northern Territory. To confidently frame the future of the Northern Territory we must identify and understand our limitations and opportunities. We must identify the ingredients we need in order to flourish, and the long-term impacts of our actions.
Statements such as, ‘we should have done’ and ‘if only’ are not the markers of effective and competent leadership, whereas responsible discussion, research, and consultation leading to certainty are. It is why we have stressed the importance of planning. It is why the government established an Economic Development Subcommittee of Cabinet. It is why we have invested in a separate energy directorate within the Department of Mines and Energy. That will be essential to ensuring the Territory’s considerable natural gas resources are developed in a timely manner and there is a comprehensive debate about shale gas development.
I note that projected expenditure on oil and gas exploration on granted tenements exceeds $200m over the next five years, with this figure set to grow as further tenements are granted.
There are now diverse energy resources available to us immediately: offshore oil and gas; renewable sources such as wind, geothermal and tidal energy; and biofuels and commercial development of unconventional gas. There are some energy resources that are not available, such as nuclear fission or fusion.
If we do not get the matter of our energy future correct, we could slow economic growth. Yes, gas will provide the Northern Territory with enormous opportunities, but these need to encompass the community at large, not just a small Top End component. Energy is essential to all of us and needs to be affordable, reliable, and aligned with predicted usage. We need to understand all the issues at stake, the efficiencies that can be made, the regulations that must be put in place, and the infrastructure required.
In Western Australia, LNG producers commit to making available domestic gas equivalent to 15% of LNG production from each LNG export project.
The previous Labor government, led by Clare Martin and then by Paul Henderson, secured the INPEX deal for Darwin over WA, and those efforts need to be acknowledged and applauded. The government is working hard to ensure further offshore gas developments and major projects will follow suit.
The story behind securing the Ichthys LNG project is a salutary tale. Getting finance for the Ichthys LNG project was a huge challenge. One of the main reasons lenders were prepared to sign up is that the project has concluded long-term LNG sales and purchase agreements with 10 well-credentialed buyers. Without this certainty, Ichthys would not have gone ahead.
That is why on 16 April 2013 the Northern Territory government confirmed it will not be introducing a blanket reservation policy on the industry.
This sessional committee will not be looking into the extraction of minerals; it will concentrate efforts on supply and potential supply of energy producing resources, both offshore and onshore. Onshore energy development is moving swiftly worldwide due to technological advances. The economic benefits are substantial, but capitalising on this opportunity and profitability in tapping these vast domestic resources depends on countering public apprehension and potential adverse impacts.
The levels of concern in the community must be addressed through a commitment to transparency and best practice. The substantial benefits of greater energy independence, job creation, and greener energy future which come from tapping these unconventional resources must be based on facts, scientific information, and data collection, not myths and misinformation.
As the community seeks to learn more about sustainable onshore natural gas, improving industry practices and procedures and mandating regulations to ensure stringent oversight has urgency above that of merely ensuring compliance. There is no argument about the need for reliable, competitively priced energy; there is no doubt we need to put in place efficient energy infrastructure.
The benefit of this bipartisan committee is that consideration can be made and advice given to government on a wide range of issues, including maximising social, environmental, and economic benefit to the Northern Territory, the best commercially viable opportunities, and meeting the demands of customers in light of known committed developments, taking into account the current strong level of exploration and development activity.
In summary, the committee will: canvass all stakeholders in the energy debate, including domestic and international interests; appoint subcommittees as it sees fit to gather the required information; consider, disclose and publish information as it sees fit; put proceedings on the public record with the exception of confidential information; and consider the issue of security of gas supplies for the domestic market as being of critical importance. Its deliberations will include the acceleration of onshore energy resources and tidal energy alternatives, and consideration of negotiated agreements on gas prioritisation for domestic use.
The committee will, in its assessment of the Territory’s energy needs, also include a focus on future economic growth for regional and remote areas, infrastructure requirements and coordination Territory-wide, and support for services and business opportunities in the long term.
The committee will, in the first instance, give priority to concentrating its efforts to onshore energy resources and then report to parliament during 2014.
It should also be clear to all members of this House that energy security is an issue of critical importance and should be supported by all parties bringing this sessional committee into being.
Mr Deputy Speaker, in the interests of allowing the opposition and Independent members time to consider their membership of this important committee, I again invite them, if they choose, to have the debate adjourned or, alternatively, if they choose to support the committee forthwith today, we will welcome that during the debate.
Ms LAWRIE (Opposition Leader): Mr Deputy Speaker, the Leader of Government Business has already been advised by the Opposition Whip that we will be supporting the establishment of the sessional committee and that we are prepared today to proceed with providing advice on committee membership. I note you have, by three references through your comments, invited us to consider it over a longer time, but we have had considerations and discussions and are more than ready to proceed.
We welcome the creation of the sessional committee. We have looked at the range of the terms of reference. I understand, in a sense, why the government would want to give priority to onshore resources. However, regarding the opportunities that exist offshore, particularly in the committee members’ understanding of the real and genuine opportunities of the service and supply industry we will become, you should consider not being too limited. Reporting back in 2014 would give them ample time to look at the issues onshore. As you have alluded to, there are significant community concerns in the method and technology of onshore extraction.
We have some very great companies doing some terrific exploration in the Territory, particularly in and around Central Australia. The potential is real and present, and there is a genuine desire by this sessional committee, I hope, to meet with the companies.
I urge the sessional committee to also be aware of the community concerns and to go out of its way to hear from all stakeholders, because if you truly are going to provide informed recommendations to government then you need to be as inclusive as possible. There are, of course, the environment stakeholders but, importantly, there are the land councils and the traditional owners as well. I urge the sessional committee members to ensure in their work they establish processes and mechanisms to literally get out on the ground and hear from as many stakeholders as possible.
As I said, there is scope within that reporting time frame to have a genuine understanding of offshore exploration, what is occurring, and how advanced people are. It is a rapidly-moving beast, and in the leveraging a gas to Gove deal would secure, we will see a doubling of the domestic gas market supply needs. Therein lies rapid opportunity, particularly when you look at wells such as Penguin Deep and the exploration opportunity there.
Given the time frame of 2014 for first reporting, whilst the government has said its priority is onshore resources, the opposition, through its committee membership, will be urging for a genuine look at the offshore prospectivity, if you are to truly understand the future energy supply chain and where the Marine Supply Base fits within the service and supply industry. A decision that closes off, once and for all, Western Australian opportunities in the short to medium term in marine supply has meant our Marine Supply Base is in pole position in the exploration occurring offshore and the real opportunities that flow out of that. That is something I urge the committee to be open to which truly gives you an understanding of the real opportunities that exist.
I do not want the government to see our genuine and bipartisan participation in this as in any way moving away from any of our existing Labor platforms and policies. I note, for example, there is an intention to look at the alternative source of energy supply of the Territory’s uranium. We extract uranium and we sell it overseas, but our position is very clear on nuclear energy, and I do not see us participating in this committee saying, ‘That is okay, we are all for nuclear energy in the Territory’. We are clearly not.
However, in the broad range of the terms of reference it is not something we are going to quibble about. I flag to the government not to play politics with such an important sessional committee and the work it has been tasked to do if you genuinely want a bipartisan approach.
There is a genuine opportunity in the alternative sources of energy. We have the legislative basis to hot rock, for example, and we have seen some very good solar programs, particularly in and around Alice Springs as it became the solar city. Biofuels have been explored and introduced at various times into the Northern Territory. I know many people working in the biofuels R&D area, particularly out of Western Australia, who could well inform the committee to a large extent. There is a genuine opportunity in industry development in biofuels, particularly for the transport industry, because the technology has come a long way.
The consideration of the practical work the committee will be doing has led to an obvious decision from the opposition on our committee membership: our deputy leader, the member for Barkly, our shadow minister for Essential Services, will be a committee member. There is no doubt about the importance of his role. He already has well-established relationships with all the major companies exploring throughout Central Australia and has been briefed and updated by all of them on the work they are doing. Similarly, our member for Casuarina, our shadow minister for Resources, probably has the most corporate knowledge in this Chamber when it comes to the resources sector in the Northern Territory. His knowledge would tremendously add value to the committee in its work.
We all take a vital interest in this. We have very secure energy supplies through our contractual arrangements, and through to 2032 we are extremely well positioned and well placed with the energy supplies for the Northern Territory government’s needs. That being said, very obviously we are sitting in a region of vast resource opportunities and the major users that come online will look at energy supply.
Some of the major users that come online, such as INPEX, ultimately provide their own energy supply. There are periods before they gear up when they will call upon our energy supply. The mines, as they come online in the Territory, obviously need to look at energy supply, depending on where they are and their scale. All of the work the committee does will be useful in informing them of what is available.
I urge a very open view from the committee in understanding where we sit in the national supply picture. I note it is not part of the terms of reference. Within the terms of reference provided by government there is not scope to look at how we could become a major energy supplier to our nation. New South Wales is in dire need of an energy supply. I think they have about two years of gas left.
The former Chief Minister, the member for Blain, mentioned his aspirations around a national grid in pipeline supplies. As Leader of the Opposition, I was very encouraged to hear the member for Blain talk about that. I have talked to the industry and many of the key major players through APIA about the opportunities of us becoming major suppliers in our nation. Hopefully we will have the opportunity of a national infrastructure fund of some sort - time-wise, post-federal election, depending on who the government is - which provides an opportunity for the Northern Territory to position itself early in the debate on infrastructure priorities.
I note that infrastructure is part of the terms of reference mentioned in the speech by the Leader of Government Business, but is not specifically contained within the terms of reference I have in front of me that were distributed in the Chamber. If you are looking at infrastructure then how we are positioning ourselves to be our nation’s energy supplier is a very relevant body of work this sessional committee could investigate.
There are a couple of matters I raise in good faith regarding this sessional committee. We are entering into it in good faith. There is abundant opportunity in the Northern Territory. We have come a long way in a decade. Just over a decade ago, before Labor won government, we were in the infancy of the oil and gas industry with the early negotiations between the then County Liberal Party Northern Territory government and ConocoPhillips in regard to DLNG. With a change of government Labor came in, and we finalised and secured the delivery of the LNG plant into Darwin.
We then went after the very big opportunity of INPEX and Total with the Ichthys project. When that first started as a body of work people laughed at us and said it would not happen. I remember hearing members of this Chamber say it would not happen. However, we secured it and it is under construction. It is great that the workers’ camp is about to be used, and we will see a real gearing up there.
What that does in regard to the pipeline is send a very clear signal that Browse Basin gas is heading to the Territory rather than Western Australia. Obviously, with Woodside announcing FLNG, they have given up on landing in Western Australia. In the national interest, whoever the federal government is post the election, there needs to be a genuine dialogue. I have suggested it be at the Energy Ministerial Council to begin with, then move on to COAG. We need genuine dialogue around how we can best position the extraction opportunities of the Browse Basin and use the opportunities we have with the Marine Supply Base in the Northern Territory for that all-important INPEX/Total pipeline. This will not be welcome news to Western Australia, but so be it. It is in the national interest that we provide the opportunity to bring those vast resources to our nation; New South Wales certainly needs some of them.
Some of the things said by the member for Blain in regard to a national outcome in the supply of energy out of those respective fields as well as the interconnect through pipelines. both offshore and onshore, are matters I hope this sessional committee turns its mind too, albeit I recognise the government has said it will give priority to onshore.
With those comments of support, we, as a team, will be playing a keen and active participatory role. I understand the privilege aspects of committees, but I expect we will receive a consistent flow of advice and information coming back so we can more broadly inform our committee members of some of the priorities we hear about.
As Leader of the Opposition I work closely with all the major resources companies exploring in the Northern Territory or moving to production here. We have always had a can-do attitude with the resources of the Northern Territory and the offshore resources that lie in Commonwealth waters. We are very keen to ensure we become the resource leader of our nation. We have pursued that policy and delivered on many projects.
As Treasurer and minister for the port when I first embarked on the opportunities of the Marine Supply Base, everyone said, ‘No, that is really not what your government needs to be doing, focus elsewhere’. I preferred to listen to people in the industry who said, ‘Whatever you do, have a good look at that. It would be well-positioned’.
With the former Chief Minister, Paul Henderson, very keen after looking at the model in Aberdeen, we were able to move all the barriers out of the way and proceed to construction of the Marine Supply Base.
The elements and fundamentals of growth and prosperity are there. However, let us not forget the importance - I go back to my request at the outset - of bringing people of the Northern Territory with us on this journey: the people who have a deep and abiding love of our environment and want to ensure we have the right regulatory frameworks to deal with that and understand the impacts of technology, particularly extraction methods. These are the people who live on the land where the exploration is occurring, the traditional owners and the people who represent them in negotiations with the land councils.
Mr Deputy Speaker, whilst there is great opportunity, there is also great responsibility. I wish the members of the sessional committee all the very best in their task.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank the minister for bringing forward this motion. I have only just had a chance to read it, so my comments, to some extent, will be based on a quick look at what has been put forward.
I do not quite accept the Leader of the Opposition’s viewpoint on uranium. I am on the record as saying that nuclear power is still one of the options this world needs to reduce its carbon emissions. Sometimes we are foolish to think renewable energy sources will take the place of existing fossil fuel sources of energy overnight. Not only will it take many years, but is a long way off before it can get anywhere near replacing the base-load power we need in the world.
In the meantime, the only source of energy which could do that still is uranium. Whether that is a good idea or a bad idea in relation to waste and those matters is something that needs to be looked at. However, I do not think we can shy away from the fact that it does not produce carbon emissions except in its production, and carbon emissions are one of our biggest concerns in the world today.
In saying that, that is something that could perhaps have been added to the recommendations. I do not know whether it is too late, but I have to add a part. I will read from the beginning:
It is no good us discussing the sources of energy that might be applicable to the Northern Territory if, at the same time, we are trying to reduce our carbon emissions. In part 6 it talks about oil, gas and coal. Coal produces lots of energy, but it is also a form of energy that produces a high level of high carbon emissions. It would be good for the committee, when looking at sources of energy, to do compare levels of carbon emissions.
One of the areas that has always concerned me is solar. Solar is fantastic; do not get me wrong, I have family who rely on solar as their only source of power. However, solar energy produces carbon emissions because the panels the solar cells are kept in are made of aluminium. Anyone who knows anything about aluminium will know it requires extreme amounts of energy, and that energy has to be produced from somewhere. Then there are lithium batteries, which are not cheap. You require a source of energy to be stored. Carbon is emitted in the production of lithium batteries.
If we look at various forms of energy and do not undertake a true analysis of the carbon emissions of each source of energy then we are, to some extent, being superficial in our reporting of the energy requirements for the Northern Territory.
I remember a former Chief Minister talking about how gas was clean. Part of the debate was over the use of natural gas in cars. I got on to the ESSO website and had a look at the carbon emissions in the Bass Strait where they clean up the gas for you to run your car in a clean way. Yes, it was clean for the motor car, but it was still not clean for the environment because, like our LNG plant in the middle of the harbour, Japan gets clean gas, we get the carbon dioxide.
This committee really needs an extra recommendation built into this to look at the carbon emissions of each source of energy if we are to come up with fair studied or well-thought-out conclusions at the end of the committee’s life.
Also, I do not think part 7 should be in here, which the Leader of the Opposition mentioned, because we are going to look at tidal energy. Tidal energy is certainly not onshore, unless there is a low tide; it is offshore. If we are to concentrate on onshore energy, that is a narrowing of what we need to be looking at. People would know a company has been looking at putting tidal energy in the Clarence Strait for some years. It has not come to be for many reasons. There was work done on tidal energy in the Apsley Strait of Bathurst Island. The department did quite a lot of work for some years …
Mr Elferink: I think that generator is still going.
Mr WOOD: I thought the trial had finished. There is also work in other parts of the world on tidal energy. You put onshore energy sources on the list; I know it says we will give priority to it. There have been applications for extractive exploration permits off the coast of the Peron Islands. There are concerns about the possible effects of exploration offshore within our Northern Territory limits. I hope if this clause stays we will not be limited to looking at offshore exploration, especially within the boundaries of the Northern Territory.
Members might remember I asked a question of the minister in relation to a company called MBS Oil which does petroleum exploration and wanted to look at exploring for gas in the rural area and further to the east of Darwin. I had some discussions with the representative of APIA, the Australian Petroleum Industry Association. Sometimes, the industry gets into trouble, not necessarily because of its members, but because there are other people who see an opportunity to create business in this area who are not experienced with dealing with some of the issues that need to be looked at from the start.
I will give you an example. The Environment Centre has been talking to certain groups of Aboriginal people about fracking, and there have been issues about offshore mining at Groote Eylandt. Without getting into the debate about whether that is good or bad, I sometimes see there has not been enough discussion between companies and traditional owners before applications have been processed. In other words, an education process is lacking, not just in those areas but in our general community. You see that from some of the discussion around fracking at present. People who are concerned about fracking call me and keep quoting to me about coal seam gas. They talk about the Hunter Valley and what they have seen on television. They talk about what they have seen in Texas on a video. Then, when you talk to the department and it gives you a briefing on what is meant to happen in the Northern Territory, it does not match anything the people have been quoting.
One of the issues in relation to the exploration of energy is the education of the general public about what it entails, perhaps by the government as a neutral entity. Many people out bush would have no idea. Where my sisters come from, all they see is a notice that someone tells them was in the paper which says there will be exploration off the coast near the Peron Islands. Straightaway – and I do not blame them - they say, ‘No way; there are turtles and pelicans there.’ In other words, if we do not do that groundwork first, do not be surprised if people are up in arms. Perhaps the committee can look at whether there is a role for government and industry, not so much to counteract the Environment Centre; it has every right to put forward an opinion about mining processes and so on. That is part of our democracy.
However, we can have imbalance in the debate and no one is making an effort. The classic example is uranium. The member for Barkly is not a great supporter of the waste. He is entitled to his opinion; I am not knocking the member for Barkly. People say it is close to Tennant Creek and is in an earthquake zone, but it is not close to Tennant Creek; it is 110 km away. If you look at what is being suggested, they will build a facility that will withstand an earthquake because it is dealing with solid waste.
It is not that people should not have the right to say they have a concern, but industry has to say, ‘Yes, you have a legitimate concern, but this is what we would do to ensure there are no problems with that issue’. It is like planning. People put forward a proposal, people object to the proposal, then the person who put the planning matter forward can say, ‘That is not exactly right; this is what we plan to do’.
The committee should also be looking at processes which will enable the public to have an educated view of what is being suggested so they can make an educated decision on whether they support or object to proposals being put forward in relation to exploration for any kind of energy in the Northern Territory.
One of the areas sometimes missed in this debate is that everyone drives a car. It is a big area which has not yet been looked at, even though we have electric cars that require something to charge their batteries, which happens to be a fossil fuel form of energy. We might have a nice clean car, but we are still pumping carbon emissions at the power station. We can use solar, but solar also has its fair share of carbon emissions.
For many years I have looked at hydrogen as a source of energy for vehicles. It a clean form of energy and, when burnt, produces water. The difficulty is producing hydrogen in a way where there are no carbon emissions. One of the alternatives of producing hydrogen has been to use the heat from nuclear power stations to break the molecules so you can produce hydrogen.
Transportation is also an area we have to look at. I look at the number of cars going to work in the morning in Darwin and think, ‘Wow, each one of those has a tank full of petrol or diesel’. We are only a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the world, so how many petrol tanks are running around the world every day full of diesel and petrol and how are we ever going to replace that? What means of energy will replace oil and gas for the car when it eventually runs out? I do not believe the car will disappear.
Hydrogen is one of the products that can be used …
Mr Elferink: Most likely, I would say.
Mr WOOD: Yes. I would have liked to go this year but, hopefully, in two years time I can go to Hamburg where they have the hydrogen fuel cells conference every year and manufacturers show their wares. This year was inappropriate with a new government in power and many discussions about various issues. It was not the right time to go, but I will put my hand up for the next one because it is an area we should be looking at.
Even though we are a small territory it does not mean we cannot have good, big, and new ideas about how we run our transport industries. Transport is important to the Northern Territory, especially for the agricultural industry. As much as I have objections to certain things, minister, I am very much supportive of the agricultural industry, and transport is a big cost. A big cost for food production is irrigation. If we can find cheaper ways to do these things, if this committee can come up with some alternatives, it would be good.
I do not know whether this will be part of what we are looking at, but there is a cost in producing energy. We might say we can produce gas and, as someone said, pipe it off to somewhere across Australia. What is the cost of doing that? We can produce tidal energy on the Clarence Strait, but what are the economics of that? We already have gas in the Northern Territory. Is that cheaper than putting and maintaining that tidal mechanism under the water?
I will give you an example. The Litchfield Shire has put a little solar light on the corner of Stevens Road and Brandt Road in Knuckey Lagoon. That is fine, but within about 30 m of it the power poles go past. On one hand, it looks terrific; we are using solar power, fantastic. But the cost of running the power line across there with an ordinary globe would be far cheaper. You can have this wonderful philosophical debate about this, but you still have to be realistic. Costs come into it, because we pay for the cost of energy. The reason we subsidise energy in remote areas of the Territory is simply because we cannot afford it; we could not charge people the full tote odds in places out bush.
We put in solar - and I am still on my way to Alpurrurulam, member for Barkly, to look at the solar/wind/diesel generation plant. Even the solar and wind energy generation has cost a lot of money. It has not been cheap and by the time you recover all that cost I will be well and truly dead. It is great to have it, do not get me wrong, but when we are talking about producing energy we need to look at the realistic costs of it because in the end we are the ones who pay for that energy.
What we are really after is trying to produce energy that is cost-efficient, will keep our cost of production down, will keep our cost of living down, and give us the benefits we know we can get from energy which, in a hot and cold place like the Territory, is an essential part of our living.
Attorney-General, I have probably rambled a bit there, but I offer those ideas in good faith. We need to have something that looks at carbon emissions and costs. I do not think we should concentrate exclusively on onshore energy resources, even though part 7 says the committee will give priority to its terms of reference insofar as they apply. Maybe you could leave it as it is. If it does not stop us looking at tidal energy and offshore exploration within the Northern Territory boundaries, then I can live with it.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I need to move an amendment, if that is okay …
Mr Elferink: Is this where you are going to add some names?
Mr WOOD: I am going to add some names. I would like to add the carbon emission one if that is possible. I do not know whether you would let me do that.
Mr Elferink: We would have to have a chat over lunch if you are going to do that.
Mr WOOD: All right, that is something we can come back to at another stage.
Mr ELFERINK: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! If it assists the House and the debate, perhaps we can break for lunch now. If the member for Nelson can conclude his remarks after lunch, we will be able to talk about those one or two items on the fifth floor in the meantime.
Does that suit you?
Mr WOOD: That suits me.
Mr ELFERINK: Can I recommend that we break for lunch five minutes early, Mr Deputy Speaker?
Debate suspended.
Ms WALKER (Nhulunbuy): Madam Speaker, I present a petition from 440 petitioners praying that Dhimurru Aboriginal Land Management Corporation senior NT Parks and Wildlife ranger position be continued. The petition bears the Clerk’s certificate that it conforms with the requirements of standing orders.
Madam Speaker, I move that the petition be read.
Motion agreed to; petition read:
Continued from earlier this day.
Madam SPEAKER: The member for Nelson has two minutes remaining.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, I will sum up what I was talking about before lunch. I had raised a couple of issues about whether we could put some amendments to this sessional committee document we have before us. I had discussions with the minister during lunchtime. I am satisfied with the result of those discussions; the minister said he will propose those amendments at the end of this debate.
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, as per the conversation had in the Chamber prior to the luncheon adjournment, I will make a minor amendment to the motion on the table. It has been done in consultation with the opposition and the Independent member.
Before I move that amendment - I do not have it written out; I was expecting it to be the member for Nelson. Essentially, what I seek to do is delete all words after the word ‘I’ in the final paragraph and replace with the words: further move that members of the Legislative Assembly, Mr Gary Higgins MLA, Ms Larisa Lee MLA and Mrs Bess Price MLA be appointed as government members; that Mr Gerry McCarthy MLA and Mr Kon Vatskalis MLA be appointed as opposition members; and that Mr Gerry Wood MLA be appointed as an Independent member of the committee on the Northern Territory’s energy future.
That amendment captures all of the requirements of members here.
I place on record my thanks to the opposition and the Independent member for allowing this motion to pass so quickly. I also place on the record what I guaranteed the member for Nelson during the luncheon adjournment in relation to his comments about the studies of carbon emissions as a result of exploring various forms of energy. I take on board what he said. It is not the intention of the government to prevent the committee from looking at those sorts of things if the committee determines they are important enough to consider. There is no attempt to constrain what the committee seeks to do but, rather, let us keep the focus on guaranteeing an energy future for the people of the Northern Territory.
As the future rolls out, energy will continue to be, and increasingly become, a difficult issue for all nations, whether western in structure or emerging. Energy will become more expensive and, until such time as we find a cheap, reliable energy source such as fusion energy or something of that nature, we will be stuck with having to deal with the expensive systems of energy generation we have now: expensive in potential environmental impact and the cost of finding those energy sources. As we dig deeper for oil and gas, as we go further for these things, energy will continue to be an increasingly expensive commodity.
Cost is probably one of the components the committee will look at. What we are attempting to do - and I pick up on the Leader of the Opposition’s statement - is confirm our energy for the future. Once we have confirmed that energy future the Territory not only can provide energy sources for its own development into the future, but the idea of the Territory as a nett energy exporter is attractive to the government. We would be encouraged by any suggestions or conclusions by the committee where a new export industry from the Northern Territory could be developed.
It is the government’s intention to make certain the opposition is involved in this important aspect of the development of the Northern Territory’s future, because whomsoever shall form government in the future - whether it be Country Liberals, The Greens or the Labor Party - energy will be a challenge we must all face together. Whilst we may not agree on the details, if we want something to happen when we hit the light switch when we walk into our living rooms, we had better do something about securing our energy future.
If we want businesses to come to the Northern Territory to develop a future manufacturing industry, particularly heavy manufacturing, in this part of the world, including valuating things like iron ore by having a smelter here, then we need to be able to identify the sources of energy that will be readily available to us.
I thank the members of this House. I thank the opposition and the Independent member of this House for their support on this important committee, and I look forward very much to its final report.
Madam Speaker, I move the amendment to the motion.
Motion agreed to.
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I move the amended motion.
Motion agreed to.
Continued from 16 May 2013.
Mr GUNNER (Fannie Bay): Madam Speaker, we welcome this legislation. We were prepared to debate it during the last sittings of parliament but, due to the lateness of hour, the government deferred it to this sittings week. It is our only bill to debate this week and it is one the opposition supports. It arises as a result of much work that has happened on the national stage across every jurisdiction over recent years. Every jurisdiction is signing up to this bill. It was two years ago that the Northern Territory signed up to be part of the process, and I congratulate the government for continuing this work and continuing to be part of the national process.
Match fixing is already a significant problem in sport. Those of us who are sport lovers, or perhaps even more particularly, cricket lovers, remember Hansie Cronje and some of the issues that occurred with him. There have also been some very recent problems through the IPL and some of the Pakistani cricket players. There are problems around match fixing, and the potential for match fixing is a huge problem. We have seen anomalous betting plunges on Australian soccer matches that do not always make sense. It is something we need to look at.
Match fixing is fraud, pure and simple. The potential for it is huge and it does not just necessarily involve the outcome of the match. There are many aspects of a sporting encounter that can be bet on. For example, all you might need is for a fast bowler to put it wide down the leg side and you have won a bet on that delivery. There are many little things you can bet on nowadays; many things can be fixed in a match. They do not normally appear odd to the human eye when you are watching the sporting encounter, but often betting companies will know because there will be plunges or they will be able to follow the money. Obviously there is a financial incentive to fixing matches or elements of matches.
We are a country that loves its sport and we want to see it played fairly and on an even stage; the integrity of sport is part of what makes sport enjoyable. Personally, I like the idea of not knowing who is going to win a game. Many people might like something like WWE, which is a little more theatrical and more rigged, more entertainment than sport ...
Members interjecting.
Mr GUNNER: Sorry if anyone is listening who did not know that. I much prefer a game where I do not know the outcome although, being a Carlton supporter, this year I have often known the outcome will be a loss.
We need to ensure matches are seen to be fair. We agree with these actions.
Individual sporting organisations have their own rules and procedures but, given that match fixing is, essentially, fraud, it is appropriate to deal with match fixing within the criminal justice system, which this bill does. The offences in the bill relate to an individual gaining financial advantage, be it for themselves or others, or if financial disadvantage is caused to another.
While the NT is home to many online betting agencies, the majority of sporting events they wager on do not take place in the Northern Territory. We seek advice from the Attorney-General in relation to jurisdictional issues, which I am sure he is already across. For example, I presume if an AFL match is played in Darwin and match-fixing allegations arise, that becomes a matter for the NT justice system. Of course, bets can be placed on games with the northeastern Australian Football League, of which Territory Thunder is a team, so we are not immune.
A major concern with the increase in sports betting is it is filtering down into minor or amateur leagues. The AFL, for example, has the capacity to put on integrity commissioners and the like to actively monitor and investigate any irregularities within their sport.
Probably the most professional sport in Australia dealing with these issues, because it had to deal with the issue of money in sport for a long time, is racing and how the stewards work. Many other sporting organisations are now looking at integrity officers and other ways of handling it, but racing has probably been the sport that has had to, for the longest period of time, deal with the issues around money in sport.
Amateur leagues such as organisations like the AFL are less equipped to deal with these issues. As I alluded to before, I am aware of a recent case in Melbourne where online wagering was provided for an American football game which, in Melbourne, are amateur games. Allegedly, players were placing bets on the games and, while in amateur sport the potential for match fixing or fraud exists, the sporting code has far less capacity to monitor it.
In the Territory, the majority of our sport is amateur. While our sporting bodies are professionally run, I am unsure if they are equipped to adequately monitor potential match fixing.
In the example of the case in Melbourne, it was reported the league had no real say or avenue open to it to prevent or control betting agencies offering odds on their games. Even some of the major codes are trying to work through how and what their relationship is with betting companies. Many of the disputes sometimes go to the information available either to the betting agency or the punter. In the flow of information you often find criticism about what is going on.
It is a concern this could happen here. Any advice the Attorney-General could provide on options available in the Territory for a sporting organisation where matches are the subject of online betting would be much appreciated. In passing this bill and bringing these powers into being, if there are problems in the local sporting area in the Territory with our amateur leagues, we can work with them to ensure they can stay on top of it and control it.
It is a complex issue. The issue of insider information often comes up and how betting agencies often seem to know more about a player’s injury, for example, than the ordinary punter. Those things are covered by this bill as well.
I believe players themselves sometimes do not know what they are and are not releasing. To use the AFL example, we often see bets on the first goal kicked. When someone who is normally a defender talks openly about the fact he might start in the forward line next week, then you see the bets go on. In all those instances, from memory, the players have said it was just a mistake; they had not thought it through and did not know their mate, their brother, or whoever, was going to place a bet on the first goal kicked.
We are comfortable the bill addresses these situations. There is an issue when that information is leaked. To date, I do not believe there has been any suggestion those forward line moves in the AFL were deliberate. There were some league issues at one stage about a penalty goal that was scored early in a game that was a concern.
Sport is also played by juniors. One of the great things about sport is the pathway and opportunities it provides for young people. NT Thunder is a great example of providing teenage players opportunities to play in games. The games they play in can be subject to significant gambling.
This legislation provides for some very serious penalties of up to seven years in gaol. We seek advice from the Attorney-General about what initiatives will be put in place to ensure young people playing sport are fully aware of these penalties and the consequences should they be tempted or led astray. Would it be an education campaign? What sort of conversation will we have with teenagers who are playing in games where there will be odds offered and could be an incentive or pressure placed on them by adults who are keen to know what is going on?
Madam Speaker, we believe this bill sends the right message: match fixing is not acceptable. The opposition supports the bill and I thank the people from around Australia who have been contributing towards this in the last few years. We look forward to some of those clarifications from the Attorney-General.
Mr HIGGINS (Daly): Madam Speaker, I offer my support to this legislation. My interest in this is twofold; one issue relates to the Indigenous constituents of my electorate. As you all know, they are very football-minded. While they might not be betting on these games, if match fixing is going on, they could be affected.
The other issue is that I have a tourist park, and over the years I have seen many people come through that tourist park who are quite interested in cricket, football, car racing - anything. There is an anecdote about one of these people. There is a fellow who suffers from Alzheimer’s. He is on a drug, and one of the side effects of the drug is it increases his need to gamble. It is good if he decides to gamble that he is going to know at least he has an even chance of betting on the right team.
Indigenous people do a great deal of gambling through card games. I am not too sure how we can stop people cheating in those. I have watched these being played and I still have not worked out how to do it. I do not know how they cheat but they definitely do.
As has already been said, the bill comes from an agreement between Sport ministers and Attorneys-General a couple of years ago and was specific to match fixing. It is not drugs in sport, as I am led to believe; it sets out fixing or being involved in fixing a betting outcome.
I was not here when this bill was introduced at the last sittings, so I had to go back to the second reading speech. I reiterate some of the agreed prohibited match-fixing behaviours: a person is not allowed to intentionally fix or influence; they are not allowed to provide or use insider information; no one should benefit from it; they should not offer a benefit to anyone or bet on a sporting event having insider information; and should not offer anyone else benefits from match fixing.
We are addressing match-fixing behaviours by implementing legislation based on New South Wales legislation. The second reading speech - I have not mentioned this to the Attorney-General at this stage - says it is based on the ‘New South Welsh’ legislation so I hope that has been picked up.
Madam Speaker, I point out that Indigenous people have a high interest in sport and, therefore, I support this legislation. The minister for Tourism is a Parramatta supporter, so I am pleased because I am sure that will fix some of the issues with them. I will be at the Adelaide River Races this Saturday, so I will feel a hell of a lot more confident that the races are not fixed. If people want to go, it starts at 11 am on Saturday.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, I also support this bill. It comes at an appropriate time because we are coming up to a federal election. I would not want that to be fixed. Elections are sometimes used by betting companies as one of their means of making money. People bet on anything in Australia, from frogs at Noonamah, the races at Adelaide River, to whatever some of these betting companies can think of. That is an area betting companies need to look at.
The member for Fannie Bay spoke about someone deciding to bowl a ball down the leg side, which happened in England a couple of years ago and some Indian cricketers are in gaol because of it. There needs to be a question put to some of the betting companies: do they need to reduce their chances of people being able to manipulate the results of a match or a particular thing that will occur during a match?
On the issue of a no ball, it is not very hard for a bowler to put in a no ball and have a few mates bet that the third ball of that over he will put his foot over the line.
This legislation, you would hope, would scare people off doing that. There are severe consequences for people who do. On the other side of the equation, why are betting companies allowing those types of bets to occur in the first place?
It is much harder to bet on a simple football match that Parramatta will be thrashed by the Dragons by 50 points. It is very hard to fix that because you have a whole team involved in playing the game. Whereas in the case of a cricketer who says, ‘The next ball I bowl will be a full toss’, that is not exactly hard to do, and it would be very hard to prove it was not an accident.
There is some onus on the companies to reduce the numbers of options, especially the types of options which could be easily manipulated.
Cheating and gambling, whilst it might benefit the people who cheat, harms those who are involved in legitimate parts of the gambling industry. First of all, the bookmaker or the sporting company which is entitled to make a profit out of gambling would lose some of that profit through somebody match fixing, and it harms the punter. For instance, in a horse race the average punter might study the guide, and there will be a fair chance, if the horse has run on its form over the last few weeks, it should be able to win or at least get a place. However, someone may have done a deal with the owners, or they have some inside information that puts them in a position where they know certain things happen; that horse is going to win.
With horse racing there are probably more people involved than just someone having some inside information; jockeys and trainers would probably be involved as well. However, the point is the average punter loses out. He has put a bet on a race presuming there is a fair chance that horse will win and he has no control over the fact someone has been able to manipulate the system for their benefit by cheating. There are two groups of people who miss out when people cheat and try to gain advantage by illegal means to win a bet.
It also brings teams, especially football teams, into disrepute. People follow their sport and clubs fanatically. If a club or members of that club were to do something deliberately done for the players’ advantage, especially financial advantage, most supporters would take a very dim view of that. They want their team to give their best, whether they win or lose. Many people live their whole lives following one club. To find out members of that club are manipulating the result sends a signal to their supporters that these players are more interested in making a dollar rather than winning for their club. It would leave a sour taste in many supporters’ mouths.
There is a range of things that match fixing effects, and it does not do sport, in general, any good. We all like sport; our cricket, golf, tennis, football and tiddly winks, if we are in that frame of mind. However, when people use sport to cheat, it does not do sport any good at all.
On a slightly different aspect, one of the issues debated in Australia over recent months is the amount of advertising in relation to betting. There is too much advertising for betting, especially during sporting programs. We seem to accept that it is just part and parcel of sport. When I was younger you could not bet on football matches; you could always bet on the gee gees and the dogs. Now we have expanded betting to cover just about anything. I am sure there will be betting in the next election on who wins the most seats, and on individual seats and which candidate will win that seat, maybe even how much they win it by. We have spread betting much further than it used to be - from the horses and the dogs to just about everything you can think of.
The Chief Minister spoke about gambling as a lifestyle of some type. I am not saying it is not a legitimate industry, but it is not an industry that needs to be promoted. It is there if people want to have a bet - I like a bet - but it is also an industry which can destroy people.
The member for Daly spoke about cards. They do not officially come under any bookmakers or sports betting companies, but having been on a couple of committees in years gone by we know that while we have problems with alcohol and drugs in some of our communities, gambling is a serious issue in many of our communities. There is a downside to gambling. Like many good things, you can enjoy it in moderation.
The industry does not need to be promoted; it needs to have some controls over it. One of the controls we should look at is how much advertising should be allowed, especially during televised matches. You only have to look at the signs on the fence around some of the ovals and you will see they mention the TAB all the way around. We have reduced advertising in rugby league matches where Tom Waterhouse - he has sold his company now - was jumping out on the field at every scrum to give you the latest bets and promote gambling. Reducing that was a good move. I wonder if it is a necessity to advertise the odds on our sporting events when many young people watch those sporting events. They love their sport, but with the continual advertising of betting it becomes second nature after a while and people accept it as the norm.
Whilst it is a legitimate industry, I am concerned it is a very powerful industry. I am not sure it needs the extra promotion it receives at present. In fact, it should be promoted less than it is. It is a very big industry, and because it is a very big industry, people are tempted to try to make money out of it. It is not something new.
I presume, minister, this legislation is not saying we have not had similar legislation in some form or another through matters regarding fraud in our own legislation. We have brought in national legislation so it applies across the whole of Australia, which is a good thing.
We all know money talks. We all know when people are tempted to make a great deal of money they will try to cheat the system.
I thank the minister for presenting this legislation. The penalties, in many cases, will discourage people from doing the wrong thing. You will not get rid of it all together, but it will help.
The industry should have a good look at where it sits in relation to being part of the problem when it comes to cheating. It should look at reducing the easy options which are relatively tempting to fix. I mentioned cricket, and people can probably give other examples. They need to look at ways to reduce the chances of match fixing by reducing the number of options you can bet on during a match.
Madam Speaker, I thank the minister for bringing this legislation forward, and I support it.
Mr CONLAN (Greatorex): Madam Speaker, I will be pretty quick too. I add my support to this legislation. It was in consultation with my office and the Attorney-General’s office that we brought this on with some urgency after a meeting I had with ASADA and the national Sports ministers in February.
It is interesting, member for Nelson, to hear you talk about match fixing and race fixing. There was a great story, perhaps an infamous story, which went around the radio circles well before my time in the business, in the 1970s, about the way country radio stations would replay the races. They would take the feed from 2KY in Sydney, and if they were playing music, going to the news or what have you, sometimes you could not take it live so you would record it for later. There was one infamous announcer who would be playing the song while on the other channel the race was coming down from 2KY. He would listen to the race and hear the result. He would pick up the phone, ring a phone box down the street and say, ‘Number four in the fifth’, and the guy would put the bet on. This went on until, eventually, someone figured out he was cleaning up a little too easily.
I am unsure if it is an old wives’ tale or not, but it sounds like something that could very easily happen. It probably took place during that time, but technology has advanced somewhat and we no longer have that problem.
Of course, match fixing is quite widespread, not just in Australia, but across the world. There are a number of examples which I do not need to go into. Many have been highlighted today.
We cannot completely stop this behaviour, but we can put some measures in place that, hopefully, will deter people from doing it. Those things include: for engaging in conduct that corrupts a betting outcome, a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment; for facilitating conduct that corrupts a betting outcome, a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment; for concealing from authorities conduct or an agreement about conduct that corrupts the betting outcome, a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment; using corrupt conduct information for betting purposes, a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment; and using inside information for betting purposes, a maximum penalty of two years’ imprisonment.
The risks to integrity in our sport and racing sectors from ongoing organised crime and gambling cheats are a major concern to our government. Today we pass legislation which takes steps to crack down on these illegal practices. The recommended amendments send a clear and strong message that this government, and the Northern Territory, take match fixing as a very serious criminal offence. It also demonstrates that the Northern Territory government is committed to addressing the issues through a unified and consistent national approach that will protect the integrity of sport across Australia by ensuring appropriate punishment is applied to all perpetrators.
There is no place for match fixing in the Northern Territory or in Australia, and no place for it in sport, particularly in the Northern Territory. Territorians want and expect our elite athletes and sporting competitions to remain clean.
Madam Speaker, I support this legislation and thank the Attorney-General for working with my office and bringing this on as quickly as possible.
Mr ELFERINK (Attorney-General and Justice): Madam Speaker, I thank honourable members for their contributions. It is, sadly, not often reported that in truth the majority of legislation that passes through a parliament is done so in a bipartisan fashion. Of course, there are no media headlines to be grabbed in that area. However, this is one of the majority of occasions where common sense prevails and good law is passed.
I will work my way from the general to the specific when dealing with some of the issues raised by members in this House. I will commence with the general comments made by the member for Nelson. The member for Nelson made the usually cautionary comments in relation to another human behaviour which, whilst enjoyable in the hands of most, is corrupting in the moral and psychological sense whilst in the hands of the few.
It is for that reason we have legislation around alcohol, betting practices, and governing all manner of conducts in our public environment. The question on this particular seesaw is not so much whether or not you have the legislation in place, but where you place the fulcrum to find the point of balance. Do we advertise alcohol? Yes we still do, but there are increasing moral questions about whether or not that is a good practice. Do we advertise cigarettes? We used to when I was a kid. ‘Anyhow, have a Winfield’ was etched on my mind when I was five years old. However, we no longer consider that an acceptable practice by virtue of the fact the third-party victim, the passive smoker, is an innocent victim of somebody else’s conduct.
Some would argue that in a household where alcohol or gambling practices were excessive there were third-party victims anyhow, and those are the social problems we have to wrestle with on a daily basis. The balance point of those particular scales is, and will always be, up for debate. I heard what the member for Nelson had to say in those areas, but they are general comments and not specific to the bill before the House.
I pick up on the member for Daly’s comments in relation to this reflecting the New South Wales legislation. I hope so, because it is intended to reflect the legislation of every jurisdiction in this country. That is part of the arrangement that was struck to bring this legislation before not only this House but all other jurisdictions so there is a coherent and understandable consistent approach across all jurisdictional boundaries. I commend the member for Daly for doing the research and noticing there is a correlation, because it is a deliberate and constructed correlation.
The member for Fannie Bay raised some interesting points, particularly in relation to the nature of these offences. Currently there are a number of offences on the statute book and within the common law that would deal with these sorts of things. If you were to take a common-law approach to something like a match-fixing event, you would find there would be a number of injunctive reliefs available to prevent something from occurring, or if you could demonstrate that as a result of some common-law fraud you had lost money, then that money could be restored to you in the way of damages. There is a common-law approach that applies in this area.
There are also legislative instruments across a raft of areas. In the racing and greyhound industries there are specific laws on the statute book which will cover the field for those industries. Alternatively, when you are dealing with a general criminal deception, which is the way the Criminal Code Act refers to frauds in the Northern Territory, then you have to deal with the issues of deceptive conduct leading to some type of fraudulent outcome. All of that is good and very general, and would cover this field already.
However, it is sometimes better to have very specific offences relating to specific types of conduct on the statute book for a number of reasons, not least of which is to ensure there is a substantial removal of doubt in any matter before a court. If a court is being asked to deal with fraud more generally, then it might be more difficult for a prosecution to prove the six varieties of conduct described in this instrument.
Getting back to some of the issues the member for Fannie Bay raised. He was asking questions and putting the hypothetical issues we often hear in this place: the what ifs? What if Bob, the forward for a hypothetical rugby team - let us say the NRL club Newtown - mutters to his mate one day, ‘I will be playing footy for the front row next week and I am really looking forward to that because I have not had a run for a while’ ...
Members interjecting.
Mr ELFERINK: Mate, I am a front rower; I know how I speak.
As a result of that, some fraudulent conduct occurs or, more specifically, he says, ‘I am not feeling really good this week’, which enables fraudulent conduct to occur. Then it involves a capacity for a third party to engage in some type of unlawful betting behaviour.
Match fixing is the process in which a person might encourage a sportsman to engage in that type of behaviour such as if somebody says to Bob, the front rower from Newtown, ‘Look mate, if you miss a couple of tackles it would be really useful’. The question was raised by the member for Fannie Bay as to where the criminality occurs along that scale. Is an innocent utterance match fixing?
The legislative instrument before the House still requires the fundamental principles of any criminal prosecution to apply. For arguments sake, one of the elements of any criminal prosecution, other than an offence of strict or absolute liability, of which these are neither, is you have to demonstrate something called mens rea, or intent. If the utterance by Bob, for argument’s sake, was made in ignorance - something entirely attributable to a front row forward or either code of rugby – then, ultimately, the elements of the offence would not be made out.
One of the points of proof you would have to clearly demonstrate to a court is that there was an intention to engage in some sort of fraudulent match-fixing type of conduct ...
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Port Darwin, can you pause because we have in the gallery the Independent Associated Seed Graders Conference. Is that who you are? We welcomed you this morning, but welcome to Parliament House now and I hope you enjoy your time here.
Members: Hear, hear!
Mr ELFERINK: Sorry, who are they?
Madam SPEAKER: The Independent Associated Seed Graders Conference.
Mr ELFERINK: The Independent Associated Seed Graders Conference. Welcome to the parliament of the Northern Territory. I am about to bore you to tears with a …
Mr Giles: They are not the only ones. We have to suffer too.
Mr Vowles: At least they can get up and go.
Mr ELFERINK: You then have to demonstrate mens rea or intent, and that becomes an element of the offence. You will have to show the person intended to engage in the behaviour which ultimately led to the law being broken. That approach means a person who innocently makes some sort of utterance must, by necessity, not be covered by this legislation. That type of innocent utterance will not be covered.
You also have to understand that any prosecution must be proved beyond reasonable doubt by the party bringing the case into a court. Not only do you have to have all of the elements of the offence there, but it has to be provable beyond reasonable doubt.
If the prosecution sets out to do that, then it is still within the purview of the person charged to raise some defences which may be available to them under the Criminal Code Act in relation to how they may have made out the elements of the offence, but not acted in such a fashion as to have been acting reasonably. Then the defences identified in the Criminal Code Act are available.
I draw your attention to the provisions of Part 2AA in relation to those excuse provisions. They do not immediately read easily to the eye, but once you get your head around them you understand how they work and that they do protect the innocent or accused party within the criminal justice system. In relation to those issues, the criminal justice system still applies.
What this legislation does is identify six different types of behaviour which, by their very nature, attract a criminal sanction because they create victims. The sort of behaviour we are talking about is behaviour by members of the Indian cricket team and others, which has already been described in this House.
Regarding individuals - I return to the comments by the member for Nelson – unfortunately, you cannot control every individual. I know it is harder for a team than an individual to act in a corrupt fashion; nevertheless, we could not introduce a successful legislative instrument which would quarantine betting down to a certain level or class of people.
Wherever there is money there will be, in some form or another, corrupt activity or an attempt to engage in corrupt activity. Where there is property there will be theft. Where there is a game of chance there will be somebody who tries to bend that game to their advantage. This legislation is aimed at saying to those who will engage in this behaviour into the future that if you are caught, brought before a court of competent jurisdiction and found guilty, then as far as we are concerned as a society, as expressed through the unanimous will of this parliament, we will ask that court to put you in gaol for as long as seven years. That is a firm, strong and important message to send out.
The integrity of the systems surrounding games of chance are already policed through a number of legislative instruments, but they need to be protected through the vehicles available through the Criminal Code Act.
I wish to address one point made by the member for Fannie Bay. He talked about the jurisdictional issues that might arise. By way of example, if I understand the member for Fannie Bay correctly, if somebody bets on an event by making a telephone call, for arguments sake, from the Northern Territory on a game which is to be played in New South Wales, to a person, let us say in Western Australia, to place the bet in a Perth betting house on the result of that game in New South Wales, which area has jurisdiction? The answer is the one in which you committed the offence: where you made the telephone call from.
It is not inconceivable that two prosecutions can arise out of one phone call, one in the Northern Territory and another in New South Wales, because there is mirroring corresponding legislation on the other end of the line in accordance with New South Wales law. When I pick up the phone in the Northern Territory and engage in conduct which would be classified as match fixing, I am committing the offence in the Northern Territory. When the person in New South Wales picks up the phone and agrees to engage in match-fixing conduct, they are committing the offence in New South Wales. I hope that satisfies the jurisdictional question the member for Fannie Bay had. I note a quiet nod so I presume that is the case. As a consequence, I think I have covered off on the comments of all members.
Madam Speaker, I thank the minister for Sport for his assistance and support of this legislation during this process. I know he was struck by some of the information he gained whilst at the ASADA conference. I understand his desire to make sure we can demonstrate, not only to the people of the Northern Territory but to the people of the world, that we have a clean and trustworthy system in which to maintain a betting industry.
Motion agreed to; bill read a second time.
Mr ELFERINK (Attorney-General and Justice) (by leave): Madam Speaker, I move that the bill be now read a third time.
Motion agreed to; bill read a third time.
Mr GILES (Chief Minister): Madam Speaker, I update the House on the gas to Gove project and the work this government is undertaking to support the continued operation of the Gove alumina refinery.
The Northern Territory government has proposed a new plan to get gas to Gove that is a win/win for taxpayers and Rio Tinto. I am pleased to report the Northern Territory government has led a number of productive discussions with all the key players, including Rio Tinto, the Commonwealth government, ENI Australia, Santos, the APA Group, and other members of the gas industry.
Before I go into detail on the current negotiations, it is important for everyone to be clear on why a new plan was needed. The need for a move away from heavy fuel to an alternative energy source has been an issue for the Gove alumina refinery for a long time. The use of heavy fuel has environmental issues and is costly. In addition, alumina prices have fallen and the cost of the refinery is sensitive to the movements of the Australian dollar.
In 2004, Alcan, the then operator of the refinery, signed a deal with Woodside to buy gas from Blacktip. Work commenced on the trans-Territory pipeline project to transport gas from Wadeye to Gove. Ultimately, this project did not proceed, with Alcan pulling out of the deal in 2005. At that time the Northern Territory government stepped in and secured Blacktip gas and the Northern Territory’s energy security. Alcan’s attention then turned to Papua New Guinea with Alcan announcing, in 2005, a tentative agreement with a proposed Papua New Guinea gas project led by ExxonMobil for a 20-year supply of natural gas, commencing in 2009.
In March 2007, Alcan announced the signing of a memorandum of understanding with Rift Oil PLC setting out the activity to further investigate a 20-year supply of gas to the refinery.
In October 2007, Rio Tinto acquired Alcan, took over the Gove operations and commenced an investigation into alternative energy sources to replace heavy fuel oil. In 2008, Rio Tinto approached the previous Northern Territory government outlining coal as a potential viable alternative to heavy fuel oil. It is understood this option was not favoured by the then Northern Territory government as coal would increase the level of carbon emissions which was inconsistent with the Northern Territory’s long-stated green credentials arising from fuelling nearly all of the Northern Territory’s power generation with natural gas.
This brings us back to the most recent proposal by Rio Tinto to secure an alternative energy source for the refinery. Rio Tinto asked the Northern Territory government to release 300 PJ of natural gas from the current contract between the Power and Water Corporation and ENI Australia. The request from Rio Tinto was originally made to the former Labor government in January 2012. Seven months later, in a letter dated 13 July 2012, the then Labor Chief Minister wrote to Rio Tinto and confirmed an amount of gas equal to approximately four years of supply, or 100 PJ, could be provided and the requested 10 years of supply to Rio Tinto could only proceed if Rio Tinto guaranteed replacement of the Northern Territory government’s contracted reserves. Rio Tinto rejected this offer.
The most recent proposal by Rio Tinto for the release of 300 PJ involved an estimated $1.65bn in capital investment made up of approximately $500m for ENI Australia to upgrade their Blacktip facilities to allow for flow of increased volumes of gas, $170m for Rio Tinto to convert the Gove alumina refinery to gas, $265m for ABP Bonaparte to expand the existing Bonaparte and Amadeus gas pipelines, and $720m for the construction of a new 603 km pipeline to connect Gove to the existing NT Amadeus gas pipeline approximately 20 km south of Katherine.
To enable the construction of the Katherine to Gove pipeline, Rio Tinto asked the Commonwealth government to underwrite financing of the construction of the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline. The Commonwealth government has not yet confirmed its support.
In relation to the ask of the Northern Territory government, the current gas contract between the Power and Water Corporation and ENI Australia is for the supply of 741 PJ of gas between 2009 and 2034. The Power and Water Corporation has a right to an additional 120 PJ of gas if additional gas is proven to exist. No additional gas so far has been proven exist.
We have already consumed almost 77 PJ, leaving 663 PJ of gas. The request to release 300 PJ of gas represents 45% of our remaining contracted proven gas supply. This has serious implications for the Northern Territory’s energy security, fiscal position, and the cost of living. That is why when the Northern Territory government announced in February this year it would support the continued operation of the refinery that this support was subject to a due diligence process. This is a standard and necessary business practice, one the Commonwealth government is still undertaking in relation to its support for the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline.
The Northern Territory government’s due diligence process looked at all options, including aggregating all available gas supplies, buying or swapping gas with customers of existing or planned facilities in the Northern Territory, and supplying gas to support the continued operation of the refinery on a combination of natural gas and heavy fuel oil.
The due diligence process also considered the economic and social impact on Gove and the East Arnhem region. My government understands the impact on the region, and this is why our key priority has always been to find a solution to support the continued operation of the refinery. The due diligence process was exhaustive, and at the end we engaged independent experts, Mr Doug McTaggart, a former Under Treasurer of Queensland, Chief Executive of QIC for 14 years, and Mr Daniel Magasanik, a respected international gas expert, to review all of the options again, including the risks of the Rio Tinto proposal to the Northern Territory.
The due diligence process revealed that the gas fields that were developed and currently producing gas were Blacktip in the Joseph Bonaparte Gulf, Mereenie in Central Australia, and Bayu-Undan in the offshore joint petroleum development area. The Blacktip gas field is operated by ENI Australia and the gas is contracted to Power and Water Corporation. Mereenie is operated by Santos, and has up to 78 PJ of gas, and Santos and Rio Tinto are currently negotiating a gas contract for that gas. Bayu-Undan is operated by ConocoPhillips for export as liquefied natural gas and all the proven gas reserves have been contracted.
The due diligence process identified other prospective gas fields; however, the due diligence process determined that these fields are unlikely to address financial and technical issues to provide a bankable gas source within the time frames set by Rio Tinto. Accordingly, the due diligence process also looked at the Rio Tinto request to the Northern Territory government to release 300 PJ of gas from the current contract between the Power and Water Corporation and ENI Australia. This volume of gas would only support the refinery for 10 years.
Part of the due diligence process saw the Northern Territory government undertake extensive negotiations with ENI Australia and Rio Tinto over the last seven months. Unfortunately these negotiations have not been able to adequately address the risks of releasing 300 PJ of gas from our current gas contract. The independent experts advise that the release of 300 PJ of gas was commercially unacceptable, notwithstanding the impact of closure of the Gove alumina refinery, and carries the greatest risks of all of the options investigated for the Northern Territory. These risks are:
a reduction in the gas supply period from Blacktip from 2034 to 2026
the price risks associated with finding new supplies of gas by 2026. This would cost around an additional $400m per year for eight years. These costs would need to be passed on, in part or in full, to households and businesses via significantly higher energy costs
In addition, as part of the negotiations with ENI and Rio Tinto, it became apparent there was no available uninterruptible shutdown gas to power the Northern Territory during the time ENI Australia would have to tie in the second well. ENI Australia estimated that the interruption to the Northern Territory’s gas supply would be for up to 90 days. These are significant risks that cannot be borne by the Northern Territory government or Northern Territory taxpayers.
The advice from the independent experts is that if the Northern Territory government were to proceed with the release of gas from the current gas contract, then the Northern Territory government must request a bankable underwriting agreement with the Commonwealth government to mitigate the risks to the Northern Territory
That is why on 13 June 2013 I wrote to the then Prime Minister, Hon Julia Gillard, asking her to support the Northern Territory government and, thereby, the release of 300 PJ of gas. Following the change in leadership on 1 July 2013, I wrote again to the Prime Minister, Hon Kevin Rudd, asking the Commonwealth government to support the Northern Territory government to release gas to support the ongoing operation of the refinery.
Written advice received from the Minister for Resources, Energy and Tourism, Hon Gary Gray, on 11 July 2013, on behalf of the Prime Minister, was that the Commonwealth government was not considering underwriting the potential impacts on the Northern Territory economy arising from the long-term gas price risk. This is despite the Commonwealth government’s confidence that additional gas supplies will be developed to meet the needs of the Territory.
On the basis that the Commonwealth government will not support Rio Tinto’s preferred proposal, the Northern Territory government and Rio Tinto commenced discussions on a supply of gas by the Northern Territory government to support the continued operation of the refinery on a combination of natural gas and heavy fuel oil until more gas becomes available on the market.
One of the concerns raised around the Northern Territory government’s new plan to support the continued operation of the refinery is sovereign risk. Before I address this concern, it is important to understand what sovereign risk means. In strict political and economic theory, sovereign risk refers to the risk that a government may default on its debt obligations. In more general usage, the understanding of the term has broadened to include investment risks attributable to, at the extreme end of the spectrum, revolution and civil war through to and including such matters as nationalisation of foreign assets, confiscation of property, and changes in government policy which impact significantly on existing investments.
I took advice from the Solicitor-General on this issue prior to government finalising its position on the gas sales agreement. He confirmed there were no sovereign risk issues arising.
What is clear is that the Northern Territory government has undertaken an exhaustive due diligence process to ensure the risks arising from Rio Tinto’s request, including the proposed commercial arrangements, are responsible and appropriate in all the circumstances. In fact, our reputational risk, had we not undertaken a thorough due diligence process, would have been significant given the advice from the independent experts that Rio Tinto’s request for the release of 300 PJ of gas would expose Northern Territory taxpayers to a $3.2bn gas pricing risk and the possibility of energy shortages in the longer term. Inevitably, this would see power prices pushed up for everyone in the Northern Territory.
Proceeding with this request would have been fiscally irresponsible, adding to the $5.5bn debt left by the former Labor government and clearly threatening our credit rating.
The new plan to support the continued operation of the refinery on a dual fuel basis provides a number of significant benefits for Rio Tinto, ENI Australia, the community, and the Northern Territory government. These benefits include an immediate reduction in the refinery’s current operation costs for energy. The existing arrangements with ENI are kept whole, and the costs and risks, including the shutdown of Blacktip for up to 90 days associated with the expanding Blacktip facilities and the Bonaparte gas pipeline, are avoided, and ENI brings forward sales of the already contracted gas from Blacktip.
The Northern Territory government considers that, strategically, the most significant benefit is the increased incentive for the Northern Territory gas market to respond to the long-term energy needs of the refinery. There is an immediate gas market for the heavy fuel oil the refinery continues to use, but there are also long-term needs for the refinery, the Power and Water Corporation, and other Territory projects.
The Northern Territory government will continue to work closely with Rio Tinto to encourage and facilitate new gas sources being brought into production as soon as possible to reduce the refinery’s reliance on heavy fuel oil.
At the meeting with Rio Tinto and the Commonwealth government on 1 August 2013, the Northern Territory government presented its proposed contribution to the dual fuel option consistent with the request that the Northern Territory government increased its commitment from 13 PJ to 15 PJ of gas per year, for up to 15 years.
The Northern Territory government does not have access to this quantity of gas under the proposal. We would have had a gas shortfall over the 15-year period of 95 PJ. The shortfall of gas was addressed through a gas buyback arrangement with Rio Tinto, priced to ensure there would be no increase in electricity tariffs for Territory businesses and the community. The proposal was rejected and Rio Tinto asked the Northern Territory government to put forward a proposal based on the volume of gas that could reasonably be made available to the refinery.
On 6 August 2013, the Northern Territory again met with Rio Tinto and the Commonwealth government, including the Export Finance and Investment Corporation, to discuss a draft proposal for the supply of 175 PJ of gas over a 15-year period to support the continued operation of the refinery. Under this revised arrangement, Rio Tinto will provide all of the heavy fuel required to power the refinery. After we power the Northern Territory, 175 PJ is all the spare gas we have. We are now offering it to provide the cheapest gas in Australia.
This is a significant commitment as it means the Northern Territory government will have to find new gas supplies for domestic use sooner than planned, to commence in 2031. The Northern Territory government is taking a significant risk, including future increases in electricity demand, the future availability and price of gas, and fixed gas transportation costs at the end of the shortened gas sales agreement with ENI.
In addition, the supply of all available gas to support the continued operation of the refinery may constrain the Northern Territory’s economic growth until new gas sources are available for planned and new projects in the Northern Territory. However, my government believes these risks are manageable and appropriate in all the circumstances. I believe the Northern Territory government’s new plan and the combination of up to 175 PJ of gas from the Northern Territory government and up to 78 PJ of gas - which is around 7.2 PJ per year - from Santos provides sufficient gas to support the continued operation of the refinery until further gas supplies are developed.
With the gas supply arrangement now on the table, the issue that needs immediate resolution is the Commonwealth government’s support for the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline. I wrote to the Prime Minister on 25 July 2013 advising him that in the absence of Commonwealth government support the parties were considering a dual fuel option which still required the Commonwealth government’s support for the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline. I again urged the Prime Minister to expedite his consideration of support for the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline.
On 29 July 2013, the shadow minister for Energy and Resources, Hon Ian Macfarlane, stated the federal Coalition’s support for the costs of the pipeline to get gas to Gove.
With the calling of the federal election, the Commonwealth government is now in caretaker mode and the Department of the Prime Minster and Cabinet has confirmed that the Commonwealth government’s support cannot be finalised until after the federal election on 7 September. Further, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has indicated that the due diligence process being conducted by the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation is expected to be completed by the end of 2013. That is not good enough.
Madam Speaker, on 8 August 2013, Mr Sam Walsh, Chief Executive of Rio Tinto, announced that Pacific Aluminium, including the refinery, is not able to be sold at present and will be integrated back into the Rio Tinto Alcan group. We welcome this decision. I have requested a meeting with the new Acting Chief Executive and President of Rio Tinto Pacific Aluminium as soon as possible to personally brief him on the Northern Territory government’s gas supply proposal: a proposal I believe provides enough gas to support the continued operation of the refinery as Rio Tinto and the Northern Territory government work together to bring new gas sources into the market.
Madam Speaker, I move that the Assembly takes note of the statement.
Ms WALKER (Nhulunbuy): Madam Speaker, I thank the Chief Minister for bringing this statement before the House and providing an update on the debacle - the crisis - which he and his government have had a very big hand in creating.
I also thank the Chief Minster’s Office for the briefing provided to me and the Leader of the Opposition yesterday afternoon. I am not sure we received much new information or too many answers to the questions we had, but we at least had the opportunity to sit around the table. Unfortunately, not sitting around the table were the authors of the audited report who we had asked to be in attendance. Effectively, we had bureaucrats provide us that briefing and we still only had available to us the same executive summary the rest of the world has seen. As I said, there are a number of questions there.
The report makes it clear that under the original deal that has been ripped up under the new Chief Minister, Power and Water’s gas supplies were secured until 2026. The report only focuses on the worst-case scenario where the government is unable to source a single drop of gas in the next decade. This is not only the worst-case scenario, but a completely unrealistic scenario; many people hold that view. There is plenty of gas and the much greater likelihood is that the government would be able to secure plenty of gas at a competitive price beyond 2026.
Whilst this update the Chief Minister has just read to us is perhaps helpful to some, it is, in reality, very limited in providing some insight into what has occurred in the last 12 months of this government in trying to deal with this matter, including the recognition in the statement from the Chief Minister that prior to the August 2012 election the former Labor government was in negotiations with Pacific Aluminium trying to secure gas. This is contrary to mistruths from a certain member opposite who said the former government had done nothing. That is simply untrue and you know it.
I query how the Chief Minister can put this statement to the House. He can send letters to Gove residents’ and businesses’ letterboxes, he can publish a piece in our local newspaper, the Arafura Times which, like his letter and statement, have been written for him by minders, he can do a pre-recorded interview with the local radio station, Gove FM, but he cannot front up to the people of Gove. He can do all of that, but he will not front up to the people of Gove and talk to them directly about why he made the announcement he did cynically, politically, on a public holiday, when six months before that people thought their future was secure. I still ask him to come to Gove, meet with people and talk about why offering less gas was a better deal on the table and a win/win.
That thinking and logic is about as bizarre as saying that Territorian problem drinkers running away from newly-established mandatory alcohol treatment facilities is proof the policy is working. That is the same type of logic the Chief Minister is using at the moment.
At the start of his statement he said this government has led productive discussions with all the key players. All, it seems, with the exception of the people who live in Gove, raise their families there, work there and, for Gove’s business owners, people who have invested very heavily there. They have invested their lives there, and reinvested into their businesses following the certainty offered in February’s announcement by the former Chief Minister, the member for Blain, that gas had been secured: an announcement made with the full approval and support of Cabinet, of which the current Chief Minister was a member.
The fact remains that the Chief Minister will not face up to the people of Gove; he will not talk to them directly. He made no mention of a visit to Gove in this update and, quite clearly, is avoiding the place. It is not only me who thinks this, everyone thinks this. This is especially so of people who live in Gove, which is why there are, so far, 1000 and counting signatures on a petition of residents and supporters asking the Chief Minister to step out to Gove, work quickly to resolve this issue and restore confidence to the people in Gove, and recognise the contribution they make not only to the town, but to the region and the contribution to the whole of the Northern Territory.
When the Chief Minister was interviewed on ABC TV news, which he must have done on his visit to Maningrida - funny how he could not get to Gove but had all the time in the world to spend a day in Maningrida and meet with the locals. On the ABC news report he looked very cranky when asked when he was going to Gove. He said he would go to Gove when it suited him, and he would not be going to Gove to be screamed at by Labor Party officials.
What a strange way to describe the good citizens of Gove. Who exactly does he think he will meet with there? I will be there. I am the only Labor Party person who would be screaming at him, yelling at him if I had to. What does he have to say about the rest of the community? The sheer arrogance is simply appalling. Where does he get off? Why is he being so petulant about facing up to the people of Nhulunbuy? Why can he not show some leadership qualities, suck it up, get on a plane, and get to Gove and meet with people? I will tell you why not: because he is not up to the job.
The member for Namatjira labelled him a ‘little boy’ and perhaps she is right. He is behaving like a little boy because we are not seeing the behaviour of a leader of the Northern Territory; we are seeing childish and petulant behaviour from somebody who should be displaying leadership qualities.
We know he pulled out of his scheduled visit to Garma on Saturday 11th. No one buys his pathetic excuse that he did not go to Garma because he was not invited. He did not go to Garma because he was too scared to face people and scared that he would be asked hard questions.
Of course, he was invited to Garma; his name is in the program booklet. The CLP bush members were supposed to be there as well. Where were they …
Ms Lee: I was there.
Ms WALKER: Yes, the member for Arnhem was there. So she should be, for all the taxpayers’ money she spends on fuel. I gave her a wave. Funnily enough, she did not give me a wave back. I did not hear her talk at a forum but she was quick to get in the photographs when the cameras came out with Tony Abbott there.
Where were they? I saw the member for Arnhem but I did not see the member for Stuart ...
Ms Lee interjecting.
Ms WALKER: I did not see the member for Namatjira or the member from the Tiwi Islands, the member for Arafura. A number of my Indigenous constituents and others there were looking for you. They wanted to ask you why you have turned your back and betrayed them. I am talking about TOs who have signed up to a certain deal, an investment and a future, and the rug has been pulled out from beneath their feet.
There is simply too much at stake: so much at stake that I am sure the member for Arnhem, who is this white noise going on beside me, will be participating in this debate because, of course, her electorate and her people stand to benefit from gas to Gove. She represents people in East Arnhem Land for whom this gas pipeline has some history. The people across East Arnhem Land will benefit when we get a secure and long-term energy supply into Gove to keep the place going.
As I said, it is not just about the town or the region, it is about the contribution made to the whole of the Northern Territory. There is so much at stake.
Several years ago I was working for the company. It was my employer for nearly 12 years during the phase of surveying a corridor to bring the gas pipeline from Katherine to Gove. There was a terrible accident that saw a helicopter go down with several people killed ...
Mrs Lambley interjecting.
Ms WALKER: It is not funny, it is heartbreaking, member for Araluen …
Mrs Lambley interjecting.
Ms WALKER: Member for Araluen, I am talking about people who were killed in a helicopter accident. I am talking about people who were involved in this project: a traditional owner, a pilot I had known for a number of years - and his family, I taught his kids - who were killed in that accident.
Because a certain amount of work had already been done in surveying that corridor, this project is already reasonably well advanced. That survey has been done, an EIS is under way, and there have been plenty of well-advanced negotiations around the gas pipeline. What we need is the security and knowledge that there is a gas supply.
I am on the record previously stating that Rio Tinto and their previous owners Nabalco and Alcan are not without blame in this process. They made commercial decisions as to how they spent money. They have been in MOUs for gas supplies over the years. They recognised they needed to switch to an energy source which is cheaper with less environmental liabilities, and political liabilities given their current fuel source comes from the Middle East.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. They should have done this a number of years ago; the reality is they did not and now they find themselves in a very difficult position.
The Northern Territory is in a position to provide assistance and to work with them to secure a gas supply, which is what they did in February. Just a few months after that, that deal was removed and an alternative deal - not a better deal, a worse deal - was put on the table. Of course, being in caretaker mode now ahead of a federal election, we will not be hearing much about this because it is highly unlikely we will see the company, during this very political period, going into those sorts of negotiations.
Let me give some advice to the Chief Minister for if and when he goes to Gove to meet with traditional owners, business owners, families, children, sporting organisations and all the people who have written him and put their signature to this petition so far; there are around 1000 signatures. On the strength of what we witnessed at a disastrous so-called community meeting at the Walkabout Lodge at 3 pm on Monday 29 July with the Deputy Chief Minister, I offer some advice. If the Chief Minister gets to Gove, do not issue a media release the day of the meeting to advise you are coming to reassure locals about the gas to Gove deal, as the Deputy Chief Minister did, and fail to mention where the meeting will be held and at what time. Do not front up to a meeting with political candidates and political mates from Canberra. Do not allow a politician to chair the forum. Ensure you find someone who is independent and at arms’ length from the process. Do not front up with an attitude which is contemptuous and dismissive towards those present. Do not start the meeting with a political pitch, telling them that if they vote for the Coalition their town will be saved. Do not presume to understand the political affiliations of those present, and definitely do not address the crowd as the Lynne Walker fan club; it will offend people.
Do not time your meeting to coincide with a CLP $100-a-head fundraising dinner for two reasons: (1) it will make everyone very suspicious about your motives for being there, and (2) you will not make a cent; in fact, you will lose money. Ask those who attended a dinner set up for 80 which was attended by just 10, more than half of whom were the travelling pollies show, three from the Chamber of Commerce, and one local business owner.
I have more advice for the Chief Minister about how not to run this consultation. Do not bother bringing the member for Namatjira, even though she is the Minister for Regional Development. She is next to useless and people are angry with her. She also pulls out of events like this, because the moment she thinks there might be some heat in the kitchen she will be the first out the door. The Deputy Chief Minister came to Gove that day because the member for Namatjira spat the dummy the night before and said, ‘No, I am not going, that is yours’.
Good on the member for Fong Lim, he does not mind a bit of a stoush; he is not afraid to front up to a group of people. He handled it all wrong, but at least he was there. It was better than nothing, but you did it, member for Fong Lim. The member for Namatjira would not have handled that situation at all. Good on you. You might have a word with the Chief Minister and tell him that you did it. ‘Come on, Adam, you can do it. Front up to Gove. We will make sure we organise the meeting better this time around, and I am sure it will be better for you.’
Why not take a leaf out of the book of the member for Blain, the former Chief Minister, who did communicate face-to-face with the people of Nhulunbuy and the region? Admittedly, it took a couple of months before he got there, but he made phone contact with people following a conversation I had with him one evening. Then he came to Nhulunbuy in mid-January. It was an orderly, well-facilitated meeting. People had an opportunity to hear the update. I said to him prior to his arrival, ‘You do not have to arrive with an answer, but the fact that you arrive to talk with people about what you know so far and to listen to their concerns will be enough’. He did that. Well done to the member for Blain. People admired him for that. People thought he displayed leadership qualities in doing that.
Given what the member for Blain has been through in this saga, I am sure it is tearing him up as much as it tears me and the people in Gove up, to see what has happened in the last few weeks and to have all of this undone. I congratulate the member for Blain for going out on a limb and publishing an opinion piece in the NT News on 8 August. The people in Gove, when they read this, thought, ‘Good on him’. He has offered a different view to the rest of his government. Given he was the individual driving these negotiations towards the end of last year and through to a successful conclusion - or so we thought - in February, I congratulate him for submitting this piece to the NT News.
He made some interesting comments about risk which I want to put on the public record:
He went on to say:
Do not dismiss out of hand the words written in that opinion piece in the NT News by the member for Blain because there is an awful lot of truth in them. Those on the opposite side who thought there was truth in them have now changed their minds.
That threat of closure is incredibly real for the people in Gove; it is real and it is frightening. Where is the report on the economic and social impact which the Chief Minister refers to in his statement? He said:
Where is this report? Why do you not release it? What are you trying to hide? The fact is there is no report. The auditor’s report states, on page 3:
I can only guess what the economic and social impact might be on the population of Gove if the refinery were to close and a win/win gas deal was not secured. Let us start with closure of schools which are already having resources and teachers removed. We would go from having one of the largest primary schools in the Northern Territory, with a current population of students of around 600, to having one of the smaller ones. It is doubtful that the high school could remain a comprehensive high school. In fact, the two schools might combine, as they were many years ago, as an area school with no senior schooling options.
Where would that leave Nhulunbuy Christian College which has invested heavily through the NT Christian Schools Association in the past 15 years or so, taking something like 170 students from transition through to Year 9? What happens to that school? What happens to the investment it has put into that place? They came to see me in December towards the end of the schooling year, unsure of what the future might hold.
How would a community of our size sustain two existing childcare centres? As it is, numbers are down. The owners of the Arnhem Early Learning Centre, which opened its doors in 2008, are already struggling. They recently terminated the cleaning contract at their centre and the owners are now there every evening cleaning the place.
What about health services? There would not be a need for a 30-bed hospital, so which of the two wards would close? My guess would be maternity. The 200-plus babies born in Gove every year, supported by brilliant nurses and doctors with obstetrics training, would become a thing of the past and women would have to come to Darwin for deliveries.
I am one of those women. My three children were born at Gove District Hospital. Unpalatable as it would be to have to come to Darwin, it would be all the worse that when you came into Darwin and could not stay at the medi-hotel.
Maybe one of the wards at Gove District Hospital could be converted to a rehab facility. Have you thought about that, Health minister? I bet you have ...
Mrs Lambley: You are a disgrace.
Ms WALKER: If maternity services were to go, theatre services would go as well. I am not a disgrace, member for Araluen ...
Mrs Lambley: You are a disgrace!
Ms WALKER: You tell me about the social and economic impacts stated in the auditor’s report which would see a community drop from 4000 to 1500 people. What happens to health services, member for Araluen, in that scenario? What happens to a 30-bed facility? What happens to theatre suites? What happens to delivery suites? You have created …
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Nhulunbuy, please address your comments through the Chair.
Ms WALKER: Happily. The member for Araluen has form in this area. She is a hypocrite like you would not believe. I do not have it in front of me, but I put it on record yesterday ...
Mr TOLLNER: A point of order, Madam Speaker! That was an unparliamentary comment and I ask that the member withdraws it.
Ms Walker: Hypocrite?
Mr TOLLNER: That is a bridge too far. Call her as many names as you like, but do not throw those allegations around.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Nhulunbuy, could you withdraw that comment, please?
Ms WALKER: I reluctantly withdraw, Madam Speaker.
The member for Araluen, the Minister for Health, told us we have nothing to worry about in Gove. ‘There will be no impact on health services if your community goes from a population of 4000 to 1500.’ Which parallel universe is she living in? How would a community of that size sustain a health service catered and funded for a population of the size it is now? She is in la la land.
She is not up to the job either. No wonder she lost the job as Treasurer. She was hopeless at it, and is on the record in February saying what a wonderful job the member for Blain did as the Chief Minister in securing gas to Gove. She is silent now, like the rest of her colleagues, eyes downcast. It is all a little too uncomfortable when we talk about gas to Gove and the fact she was at the Cabinet table and approved it, and is part of the government that has backflipped on it. Shame on her! I am not scaremongering, I am speaking the truth. Why not come to Gove, talk to people, and deal with the people who are scared about what their future holds. Shame on you!
Apart from health services, how does a town of our size sustain two supermarkets? What about the town’s two accommodation businesses, the Walkabout Lodge and the Gove Peninsula Motel? Will there be enough business to keep them both operating and viable for the long term? I do not know. Perhaps the Minister for Business should ask the owner of the Walkabout Lodge he appointed to his business council what he thinks of that. What of training and employment opportunities in this shrinking community and, with it, a shrinking economy? What will this mean for the Yolngu population which is not going anywhere? Is it that the member for Namatjira’s Strategic Indigenous Employment Strategy has an answer to that?
Without gas to Gove and a reduction of 2500 people, what would that do to the social fabric of the town, not just the economic fabric of the town? What about our tennis club? Tennis Australia has written to the Chief Minister about the impact of the loss of gas to Gove and the potential closure of the refinery would have on the town, and we are looking at the worst-case scenario. The government is looking at the worst-case scenario - no gas - so the community has to look at the worst-case scenario of losing 2500 people from our community. We have one of the biggest tennis clubs in the Northern Territory. It was Australia’s Tennis Club of the Year for the last two years. We have a massive netball club, a squash club, and a huge junior football club. Every Friday afternoon, Hindle Oval has hundreds of kids lined up playing game after game, entirely run by volunteers.
What about our BMX Club celebrating 30 years this year and due to host the NT titles next year? What about the Gove Peninsula Surf Lifesaving Club, an amazing volunteer organisation? What does it mean for their recent investment, thousands and thousands of dollars rebuilding their club following a disastrous fire, with some of those dollars coming from government? What about our golf club which is already struggling? I know. I will tell them to write to the member for Greatorex, the Sports minister, and see if they can get a $300 000 handout. What about Arafura Dance, one of the biggest dance schools in the Northern Territory?
This is not an exhaustive list of sporting and recreation organisations in Nhulunbuy. The fact members opposite laugh, sneer, and accuse me of scaremongering - you need to get out of the fifth floor. You need to talk to people face-to-face and you will see it is not just me who tells these stories and has these fears; it is very real in the community.
This update gives no assurance to the people of Gove that their future is safe. There is a growing sense the CLP government has turned its back on Gove and does not care …
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I move that the member be granted an extension of time, pursuant to Standing Order 77.
Motion agreed to.
Ms WALKER: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I have nearly finished.
There is a growing sense the CLP government has turned its back on Gove, does not care about Gove, and that the people of Gove are being punished because it is not a CLP-held seat. That is not helped by a minister of the Crown accusing a group of people of being the Lynne Walker fan club. They feel very much that they are being punished because it is not a CLP-held seat.
This statement changes nothing for me, nor the people I represent. We still call on the Chief Minister to come and meet with people. We call on the Chief Minister to come to Gove. We will give him a briefing about what life is like there. I also invite the member for Araluen to come. I will call a community meeting of all women expecting to have babies in the next 10 years, and she can tell us what we can expect of health services ...
Mrs Lambley: We will not be reducing health services in Gove, member for Nhulunbuy.
Ms WALKER: I look forward to you putting that on the record. You are a ridiculous woman, you are a fool, and small wonder you are not the Treasurer!
Mr VATSKALIS (Casuarina): Madam Speaker, it seems as if the members opposite wish this statement would go away because no one is standing to speak about it. It is a very important statement. However, it is very interesting.
Yesterday the Treasurer, the member for Fong Lim, accused us of being communists because we were wearing red ties. Stalin would be very proud of you and your colleagues for the way you photoshopped Terry Mills out of anything to do with gas to Gove and erased any possible memory of the previous Chief Minister of the Northern Territory who secured a gas deal for Gove.
I recall very well that when I was growing up in Greece we knew about the change in the Soviet leadership by watching the front page of Pravda, to see who was in the photograph, who was photoshopped out and whose name was erased. This statement is a classic example of Soviet manipulation in erasing people’s memory of anything that had to do with some of the more significant events in the Northern Territory.
Politically, I differ from the member for Blain, Mr Terry Mills, on many things. However, I congratulate him for is his foresight, bravery and the risk he took to rescue not only the operation of a significant industry of the Northern Territory, but also the township of Gove. My colleague, the member for Nhulunbuy, quite rightly questioned what will happen if the refinery in Gove closed.
I note the member for Araluen, the current Health minister, disputed her assertions that if the township of Gove reduced its population, our hospital will be the same. I ask her to look at Tennant Creek. What were the hospital and health services in Tennant Creek like when it was booming through the mining industry, and what are they like today? You will see there is a significant difference because you and your bureaucrats would not be able to justify the expenditure for a hospital in a township of only 1500 people.
This is a very important issue, not only for Gove but for the whole Territory. When the Chief Minister of the Territory, or any jurisdiction, stands in public and makes a commitment to a company to provide a service or gas, he has made a verbal contract. Terry Mills stood in public, on television - I watched him - and said he would provide 300 PJ to Pacific Aluminium to keep the operation in Gove. That is a verbal contract by a Chief Minister, who is the supreme authority in a jurisdiction.
Quite rightly, if Pacific Aluminium wanted it could take the Northern Territory government to court for breach of contract. I spent quite a time studying commercial law, and I know very well what does or does not constitute a verbal contract. If the current Chief Minister asked his legal officers to look at it, he would probably get a very unpleasant surprise.
Look at the whole history. I was also involved in the gas to Gove negotiations, and I met a number of times with the then CEO of Pacific Aluminium in my office in Darwin to discuss the possibility of providing gas to Gove so the refinery could change from heavy fuel, which was not only polluting but uneconomical, to a cleaner and more economic and efficient fuel: gas.
Our government constituted a task force to look at the issues with gas to Gove, Pacific Aluminium remaining at Gove, and the grim scenario of what would happen if Pacific Aluminium decided to maintain the mine in Gove, mining the bauxite but not processing it to alumina in Gove, closing down the smelter.
Nobody mentioned that most of the power in Gove is provided by the power generated at the Gove facilities of Pacific Aluminium, and most of that power goes to the refinery. Should the refinery close, do you believe there would be a power station sufficient to provide energy to Gove and the surrounding areas? There would not; it would be downgraded. That means that somebody has to fill the gap, and that has to be Power and Water. What would be the expenditure to the government to replace the lost power in Gove and its surrounds? Nobody spoke about it, but it is something you have to consider, Minister for Essential Services.
We have heard many arguments about the social and economic analysis. My colleague, the member for Nhulunbuy asked for it to be tabled. Here is a challenge: table it! Show people in the Territory the economic and social analysis that has been done for Gove. My suspicion is that no analysis was done; it was just a guesstimate.
If you provided 300 PJ to Gove, to the Pacific Aluminium refinery, the price of power would go up. Hold on a minute! Most of you who are currently in Cabinet were in Cabinet then; that debate took place in Cabinet. I know, I was a member of Cabinet. You all decided and agreed to provide 300 PJ of gas to Gove. If there were some concerns then, why did you not raise them? You let your then Chief Minister go public and commit the Northern Territory government to provide 300 PJ of gas to Gove.
These are questions people in the Territory should ask you. Are you just following orders? Can you think for yourselves? I thought you were elected to represent your people in the Northern Territory. You have every right and obligation to say, ‘That is not a good deal, we do not agree’.
The Chief Minister is one member of Cabinet; I believe your Cabinet has eight or nine members. If six or seven of you objected, it would not be a brave Chief Minister who would speak out. It is funny because you all agreed, then you waited for him to go to Japan and stab him in the back. A few days later, you came out with a new plan not for 300 PJ but only 175 PJ, and you make all these excuses why it could not be done: it could increase power prices, and the Territory would have a problem with gas supply in the future. Will it? Is it true?
Power and Water signed an agreement with ENI for the supply of 740 PJ of gas, with the possibility of an extra 120 PJ, so gas is covered. I am also aware that the current consumption of gas by Power and Water is 25 PJ. If you have a contract with ENI for 25 years, 25 by 25 makes 625 PJ. It would probably be less in the future because turbines become more efficient and use less gas to produce more energy. From 625 PJ it would leave you another 120 PJ. We know Santos has negotiated with Pacific Aluminium for 78 PJ. That makes it 198 PJ. The difference between that and the 300 PJ is another 100 PJ.
Armour Energy discovered gas in McArthur Basin. Armour Energy discovered enough gas, and continues to discover gas, to supply the Northern Territory industry. Where are your negotiations with these people to see if you can put a package together to provide Pacific Aluminium, or Rio Tinto since they have been absorbed into the company, with the necessary gas?
The other thing that is suspicious is you announced on Friday, Chief Minister, that there is not enough gas for Rio Tinto. Surprise, surprise! On Monday Ian Macfarlane was in Gove telling people, ‘There is nothing to worry about, guys. If we come into government we will find the gas.’ Where from? He said he would underwrite the pipeline. Of course he would.
Gary Gray said the same to me. He is a good friend of mine; I know him from Western Australia. When I asked him if the Northern Territory government had spoken to him about underwriting the pipeline he said, ‘What are you talking about? We already said we are underwriting the pipeline.’
Now the Northern Territory government is changing the whole thing, it has to change ...
Mr Westra van Holthe: Are you being perfectly honest, Kon?
Mr VATSKALIS: Do not take my word for it; talk to the member for Blain because, as Chief Minister, he spoke to the federal government about underwriting the pipeline. Find out what the discussion between the member for Blain and the minister for Resources, Gary Gray, was ...
Mr Westra van Holthe: Perhaps you have just misinterpreted.
Mr VATSKALIS: It might be that you want to misinterpret it for political reasons. It was very obvious when watching the news that night. What immediately came to my mind, and to the minds of many of the people in Gove, was the whole thing was a very good opportunity to get some votes from the people in Lingiari for your own purpose. It was so amateurish and so obvious that people did not fall for it; they saw it for what it was.
That was why you copped that reception that night. I remember the uncomfortable faces of Ian Macfarlane and the other candidate sitting at the table when the Treasurer was speaking. The atmosphere was so hot. The Treasurer accused the people of being the Lynne Walker fan club. They were not; they were people who saw that their life savings, their investment, their future and the opportunity was going down the gurgler because you did not keep the word the Northern Territory government gave to Pacific Aluminium. It was not Terry Mills who gave his word, it was not the Chief Minister, it was the Northern Territory government. When a government changes its word halfway through, it sends shivers through the people who invest in the Northern Territory or any other jurisdiction in Australia.
I can understand that policy changes when government changes. I have been in the Territory for 20 years and never before have I seen a change of policy because the Chief Minister changed while the same government remained in power. This is what people consider to be a serious sovereign risk, and they will think twice before they invest in the Northern Territory.
Mark my words, when the Fraser Institute survey comes out next year, the Northern Territory will not be at the same level it has been in the past few years, for the simple reason that with one single action you have sent a strong message, ‘It does not matter what we said before, we can change our mind tomorrow and we can change the rules of the game’. If you can do that with the supply of gas that was promised by a Chief Minister, how can you guarantee you will not change the regulations or rules with, for example, exploration tenements, mining tenements, or water allocations? How can people invest in a jurisdiction when internal change in the government can change the whole situation? That is the issue.
The member for Nhulunbuy spoke about Gove. It affects her area, but it is more than just the township of Gove. Currently we have schooling providing services to the township and the surrounding areas. We have a hospital that provides services to the township and surrounding areas. We have Indigenous people working in Indigenous enterprises which provide supply to the mine. We have people investing and conducting businesses based on the existence of the mine.
If you cut the population in half the size of the school will reduce and it will be unable to provide the service it provides today to the population of East Arnhem Land. You will reduce the health services and hospital services so every person living in the township or in the area will be negatively affected.
The future of Gove will be bleak if, tomorrow, Pacific Aluminium calls your bluff and tells you it is closing the refinery. The reality is it could do it somewhere else with a more accommodating government, and more easily. I have no problem with you standing firm on some of the demands they put forward. They have put the same demands to us. They wanted to bring in coal and convert the refinery to a coal-fired power station which we objected to because we thought it was a step backwards. The same thing happened with the CLP government when they built the Channel Island station. The original idea was to use coal but they decided to convert to gas. It was a forward-thinking position.
I do not have a problem with standing firm and objecting to some of the demands, but I have a serious problem when you backtrack and change something promised by your own CLP government and the CLP Chief Minister.
I praised the member for Blain for his forward thinking. Offering 300 PJ to Pacific Aluminium and keeping the refinery there creates the opportunity for companies to invest in the Territory for gas exploration. A number of companies are looking for gas in the Territory; Central Petroleum is one. Will they find gas? Santos invested $150m in their tenement to assist in the exploration program. Do you really believe Santos would do that if they were not confident they will find gas?
Armour Energy is the other one in the McArthur Basin. Hess in the Beetaloo Basin …
Mr Giles: Hess is no longer there. Get up to speed.
Mr VATSKALIS: They keep pulling in and out. Falcon Petroleum is one continuous exploration. If you look at the …
Members interjecting.
Mr VATSKALIS: Ask your colleague, the Minister for Mines and Energy, to provide you with a briefing about the structure of Beetaloo Basin, some of the structures in the McArthur Basin and the area we set up to resume, and you will find out if there is gas or not.
Of course, let us not forget ENI was planning to start exploration around Blacktip in the tenements they still own. In 2004-05, when I visited Woodside in Perth when they still owned Blacktip, they gave me a briefing and showed me a 3D display of Blacktip. They were certain there would be more gas there to be exploited. The only thing they had not done was deep exploration. ENI is about to commence that.
The member for Blain, by his actions, was not only assisting Pacific Aluminium, he was calling on companies from all over the world to invest in the Territory. How many do you believe will come now? You backtracked, you did not keep your promise, and you changed the rules of the game halfway through. You would have to be a real fool to invest in the Territory if you cannot trust the government to keep the same rules and conditions throughout the game.
Gas to Gove is a really sad saga. The member for Blain did something right. I am not the only one to say that; some members opposite said it. The member for Araluen stood up and proudly said:
That was the Terry Mills government. The current Adam Giles government is not about jobs or growth, it is about playing political games.
Mr Deputy Speaker, we spent time trying to promote the Territory as a place to invest for mining exploration, oil and gas. It is amazing that in only one day Adam Giles closed that door to investment by sending out a very strong message.
I have had a few differences with the member for Namatjira, but I have to say you got it right. You are right calling Adam Giles a ‘little boy’.
Mr TOLLNER (Deputy Chief Minister): Mr Deputy Speaker, I have not heard so much nonsense in this House for a long time.
The member for Casuarina is clearly out of touch. Hess has not operated in the Northern Territory for some time now. If it is so easy for Armour Energy to supply gas to Nhulunbuy, I am sure Pacific Aluminium, now Rio Tinto, would have taken up those negotiations fairly quickly. However, they have not.
Yesterday we had a bizarre censure motion from the Leader of the Opposition focused around gas and the way the Chief Minister had lied to the people of the Northern Territory, how he was corrupt, how he was crooked and so on, and the greatest disservice that has ever been done to the people of the Northern Territory.
Today the Leader of the Opposition has not even listened to the debate; she is not here. All of a sudden, there was all of this stuff yesterday about the great …
Mr VATSKALIS: A point of order, Madam Speaker! The member knows very well he cannot reflect on the presence of a member in this Chamber.
Mr TOLLNER: I have not referred to her not being in the Chamber, but I am glad you have pointed that out, member for Casuarina. I am saying she has not participated in this debate.
Mr VATSKALIS: Mr Deputy Speaker, clearly, the Treasurer said she is not here. He has not been here for quite a few debates; if he wants to go down that path, I am quite happy to start pointing it out.
Mr TOLLNER: I do not mind whether she is here or not, the fact is she is not participating in the debate. There was all this fire and brimstone yesterday about what mongrels we are on this side but not boo from her today. She has not been heard in this debate. You would think that when the Chief Minister delivers a statement on such an important topic as gas to Gove the first speaker on their feet on the other side would be his opposite number: namely, the Opposition Leader. However, she is clearly not listening, not providing input to the debate and has no interest in the matter. You have to scratch your head and ask why. Was yesterday just a farce, a bit of a show put on for the team? You could be forgiven for that. Or was there something else?
Maybe she got a briefing. Maybe she has a better understanding of the situation now than she did yesterday. I hazard a guess it is probably a mixture of both: (1) now she realises the government could have been exposed to enormous risk and it is probably not the right thing to just wade in leading with your chin; and (2) she was dead-set keen on hamming things up yesterday to try to interfere with the government’s agenda and the statement the Chief Minister wanted to make in relation to Framing the Future. That is what that was all about yesterday.
Having listened to the two speakers of the opposition, the thing that surprised me is there has not been an alternative suggested. It is, ‘Oh well, the former Chief Minister did a great job, the current Chief Minister somehow reneged on that, and that is all terrible’. However, as far as them offering any alternative, there has not been any offer. When you ask what Labor’s alternative is, it is to do nothing. It always was to do nothing.
The former Chief Minister, Paul Henderson, was asked by Pacific Aluminium to step in and help, and he made some paltry effort to suggest, ‘We might be able to give you a four-year supply’. Four years supply of gas was no offer at all; he knew it and the government at the time knew it. There was no way they were going to put at risk the future energy needs of all Territorians to satisfy what they saw as a multinational company at Gove which should be able to look after itself ...
Mr Styles: Is that why the member for Nhulunbuy did not ask any questions?
Mr TOLLNER: Absolutely. I pick up on that interjection from the Minister for Infrastructure. The member for Nhulunbuy has been silent on this for five years; she has not said boo on this matter. I have heard more in the last two days from the member of Nhulunbuy in relation to anything to do with her electorate than I have in the last five years. All of a sudden she is jumping up, crying crocodile tears about what is going on in Gove, but not once in five years has she pleaded the case for the community of Nhulunbuy or the region in which she lives.
The previous Labor government had no intention of doing anything for that community. I pay tribute to our former Chief Minister, the member for Blain because, unlike the former government he was prepared to have a look. Not just have a look, but have a red-hot crack at trying to build a future for the people of that region. Good on the guy. I have always supported him for that because he cares about what goes on in the Northern Territory - not just in Palmerston, but in the whole of the Northern Territory. He took an interest very early in the Nhulunbuy community: in the future of people who work at that refinery and live in the community. He made some commitments saying, ‘Yes, this is what we want to do. Of course we want to help the company.’ The deal always had a few hairs over it; 300 PJ of gas for the Northern Territory was a big deal. We never had 300 PJ of gas to hand over; it always would require some aggregation from other sources. The former Chief Minister, the member for Blain, went to every effort to secure that 300 PJ. There was project risk; we knew that. However, in fairness, the former Chief Minister always said a due diligence test had to be done around the whole matter.
That is exactly what happened and that is what the Cabinet wanted to see happen. We were alarmed when the information came back about the levels of risk and the uncertainty it would provide to, not just the Northern Territory government, but all citizens in the Northern Territory.
The member for Nhulunbuy suggested the federal Labor government is prepared to back this project. What nonsense! On 9 July, the federal minister, Gary Gray, the very good friend of the member for Casuarina, wrote to the Chief Minister, and his letter said:
That is the first point; the Commonwealth government understands the situation we are in. He went on to say:
I highlight the word ‘considering’:
He said:
This is a fact. If you go through the letter he has written you see he understands the situation the Northern Territory finds itself in. He says, ‘All right, we are prepared to underwrite the financing of the pipeline, but no way known are we prepared to underwrite the risk the Northern Territory government or the people of the Northern Territory would face’. He would consider - the word there is ‘consider’ - underwriting financing for the pipeline.
The difference with the Coalition is they have made a commitment to underwrite that. Both federal Labor and the federal Coalition are close to the mark. The fact is it is only the Coalition which has committed to underwriting the financing of the pipeline.
Listening to the sad and sorry member for Nhulunbuy, who for five years said nothing about gas or energy supply to the community, you would swear she had been the greatest advocate going for her community. What a load of nonsense to talk about the Minister for Health trying to reduce funding to the hospital to stop babies being born in Nhulunbuy and turning the hospital into a rehab facility. The town population dropping from 4000 to 1500 because the refinery closes - that is just scaremongering and being completely irrational.
She suggested we are punishing Gove because it is a Labor seat. They were her closing words. Who was punishing Gove? It was her government that refused to help Gove. The only people who have decided to do anything about it are the Country Liberals. The former and the current Chief Ministers are negotiating as hard as possible to extend the future of that refinery and mine.
I say ‘extend the future’ because that is exactly what it is. This thing cannot go on ad infinitum. I said to that a group of people at the Nhulunbuy community meeting, which the member for Nhulunbuy attended. ‘Guys, I understand this is a difficult thing to face, but one day we will have to face the closure of the mine and the refinery. It is an exhaustible resource. One day that mine will close down. What happens when there are no jobs in the mine or the refinery? What does the community do then?’ This is a bit of a wake-up call in some ways to say, ‘Let us start thinking about Nhulunbuy without mining’.
It is difficult to think of at times. I grew up in a tiny little town in Central Queensland of 50 people. It was no bigger than Elliott but it had a hospital and several hotels and vacant houses everywhere because it was once a thriving coal mining town with several thousand people. The mine closed down and, consequently, the hospital closed, people moved away and got jobs elsewhere, and it became a service hub for the pastoral community around it.
One day, as sure as God made little apples, the Nhulunbuy mining operations and refinery will close. But there is only one party, one team, which has tried to ensure we extend the life of that township for as long as we can, and that is the team on this side of the House. The former government had no interest. We hear the opposition bleating now but, goodness me, we have been in government for just 12 months.
This problem has been around a lot longer than that. It is not as if Mr Sandeep Biswas at Pacific Aluminium woke up within the last 12 months and said, ‘Holy moly, we have no gas. What are we going to do? Oh, it is all the fault of the Northern Territory government.’ That did not happen. We have known about this problem for many years, and for many years the government of the day did nothing.
The local member did nothing and said nothing. She said, ‘I am on public record’. Show us one line! Show us a transcript of a radio interview! Show us something in the Gove newsletter! Show us anything that says you have made one peep about the problems of energy supply in Nhulunbuy, and we might believe you. I cannot recall, and none of my colleagues can recall the member for Nhulunbuy saying anything. In the last two days, I have heard more from the member for Nhulunbuy than the entire time I have been in this House.
The member for Nhulunbuy seems to judge the worth of a person by whether they turn up to Garma. Why was this person not at Garma? Why was that person not at Garma? They should be talking about gas to Gove, demanding the Chief Minister goes over there.’ Goodness me, I went there. I fronted the people of Nhulunbuy and told them exactly the situation the government was in. I tried to reason with them. I have an enormous amount of sympathy for people in Nhulunbuy. It is a dreadful thing when you are in a township which rests on decisions sometimes made in head office in London. You feel remote from the decision-making of the company you are working for. It must be a dreadful feeling and I feel for the people of Nhulunbuy. I feel for the business people who have invested money in that township. I feel for the local community which is working with royalty monies they expect to get from that mine. That is extraordinarily upsetting and confronting.
However, this problem has been around for a long time. We all know they were burning heavy oil. We all know there have been environmental problems. We all know Kevin Rudd’s carbon tax would put another impediment in the way of that company operating. What have we heard from the member for Nhulunbuy about the carbon tax? Here is a refinery and a mine the whole town relies on, powered by heavy oil, which, as the member for Casuarina rightly pointed out, is very polluting. Yet, she has her masters in Canberra introducing a carbon tax - the most expensive carbon tax in the world, by the way - and what do we hear from the member from Nhulunbuy about that? Nothing. Yet, she demands the Chief Minister turn up.
Why is she not talking about these things? Why is she not explaining to her community, ‘I might well be a member of the Labor Party, but federal Labor is hurting us as a community and I am going to say something’. Why not? Why has she not said, over the last five years, ‘I might well be a member of this dysfunctional branch of the Australian Labor Party in the Northern Territory which refused to say anything about gas to Gove, or do anything to help our community, but I will stand up and fight my own mob. I will cross the floor.’
Goodness me, even the former member for Arafura, who was the Deputy Chief Minister, was prepared to cross the floor along with a number of her colleagues who decided they could not stomach the development at McArthur River mine. They felt for something, believed in something and crossed the floor.
Not the member for Nhulunbuy - nothing, not boo, not a squeak. There is a change in government and, all of a sudden, she is deeply offended and comes in here ranting and raving for some reason or other, abusing the member for Araluen as if she had a major role to play in shutting down the energy supplies. Goodness me, talk about trying to shoot off at anyone! It is crazy stuff.
Then, we find the member for Nhulunbuy has been on the payroll of the company for 11 years. The member for Araluen picked it when she suggested perhaps the reason she has not spoken about this is she perceives within herself there is a conflict of interest and she should not be talking about these things ...
Ms Lawrie: How ridiculous. How ridiculous.
Mr TOLLNER: Here we go, ‘how ridiculous’. Finally! The Opposition Leader does not shut up all day long - yabbity, yabbity, yabbity - and finally she decides to take a seat and join this debate. Aren’t you good? How did your briefing go last night? Did you get some information you did not know about? You hang your head in shame because you were part of the failed previous administration that refused to do anything …
Mr McCARTHY: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! I ask that the member direct his comments through the Chair.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue Treasurer, through the Chair, please.
Mr TOLLNER: Yes, of course, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will gladly comment through the Chair.
I was just making note that the Opposition Leader has finally decided to stick her two cents’ worth in here with some mumbled interjection. Yesterday, she was here all fire and brimstone with a censure motion, how our Chief Minister has lied being the key part of it. Today, she has not said boo ...
Ms Lawrie: I will once you sit down.
Mr TOLLNER: That is a point. Yesterday, whilst I was here responding …
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 113: relevance. The Chief Minister has made a gas to Gove statement; do you want to get back to it?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, Treasurer.
Mr TOLLNER: I am talking exactly about that. Gas to Gove was a big part of the censure motion yesterday. I have it here:
That was part of your censure motion. You were outraged yesterday; it was appalling what we had been doing. Now, all of a sudden, you have not said boo. However, we will go back to yesterday when you were so outraged about gas to Gove …
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 113: relevance. Do you want to talk on the Chief Minister’s statement? I am waiting for my turn to talk, but you are going off on weird tangents.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, Treasurer.
Mr TOLLNER: You know damn well you will not get a turn to talk because your side agreed there would be two speakers from each side today on this, and we have other business to move on to. You have ducked this debate and you know it.
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 113. I am here. I will stand. I will get the call. I will talk …
Mr Giles: You have had two speakers.
Ms LAWRIE: No negotiation on two speakers …
Members interjecting.
Ms LAWRIE: I was with the Chamber of Commerce in a meeting on gas to Gove ...
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! It is not a point of order. Sit down, Leader of the Opposition, please. Continue, Treasurer, and stick to the statement, thank you.
Mr TOLLNER: Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was commenting on a couple of the debates we have had in this place in relation to gas to Gove. One was the censure motion yesterday. Straight after delivering the censure motion where it was so important that the Chief Minister has to be flung from the parliament and we have to go to another election, what did the Opposition Leader do? She shot upstairs to the Nitmiluk Lounge where I had a school group and started scoffing the food and acting like she had organised the function ...
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 113: relevance. We do not want to hear about sausage rolls, we want to hear about gas to Gove.
Mr TOLLNER: Mr Deputy Speaker, they talk about relevance. This is highly relevant because all of this is being driven by your Opposition Leader. I am talking about the commitment she has to this debate - absolutely none. What she is committed to is playing silly little political games and trying to undermine other members of parliament while they are in the Chamber debating her silly motions.
What the hell was she doing talking to a school group from my electorate …
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 67: digression from the topic. Can we debate this statement and get on with it?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I believe he is debating the statement …
Mr TOLLNER: I am debating the statement …
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: If we have fewer interjections, maybe he will stick to the topic. Continue, Treasurer. There are already a couple of people over there on warnings. Thank you.
Mr TOLLNER: I am talking about the way the Opposition Leader does business. She knows exactly what it is about; she has played in the mud before. She tried to put the Chief Minister off his game by running a silly censure motion. She had no commitment to the motion, because straight after she had spoken she went to the Nitmiluk Lounge trying to undermine me with a school group from my electorate, scoffing down food which my office paid for. Good on you, Opposition Leader, that is the way you do it. We know its form; you have done it all the way like that.
Today, the Chief Minister is ready to talk about gas to Gove. He has provided a statement and provided you a briefing last night and, all of a sudden, you are MIA, not around, disappeared ...
Ms Lawrie: I am here. Hello, I am here.
Mr TOLLNER: That is right. You were probably with the Chamber of Commerce doing something else important, but you certainly were not participating in this debate. That is a bit fraudulent in my view ...
Mr McCarthy: Is there a standing order for paranoia, Dave? Because I need to call it. Get back to the old days. Start swinging them, mate. Do not get paranoid.
Mr TOLLNER: I am not getting paranoid.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: A bit of order. Can we stop interjecting, please.
Mr TOLLNER: As much as you might want to try to drive a wedge between the former Chief Minster and the current Chief Minister on this issue, as much as you might want to try to play your funny little political games in this area, both of these gentlemen have done much more than your team ever has, irrespective that you knew about the problem for years. We listened to your censure; you have not done this, you have not done that, this is failing. Why? We have been in government for 12 months; whose problems are we fixing? We are fixing the mess you guys left behind. You are so lethargic you could not even get off your behinds to assist one of your own in her electorate in Nhulunbuy. Then you got this poor fool, the member for Casuarina, supposedly resources or energy spokesman or what not ...
Mr McCARTHY: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Standing Order 62: offensive and unbecoming words. I ask that the member withdraw.
Mr TOLLNER: I will withdraw that. Maybe he is not a fool. It is questionable. You have to ask the question about a bloke who has spent a bit of time as minister for Primary Industries, Resources, Mines and Energy and all that wonderful stuff who does not have a clue about who is operating here or what stages of operation some of these exploration projects are in.
If Armour Energy was ready to supply gas, we would be there. Without doubt, I can tell you that the former Chief Minister, the member for Blain, would have been there and there would be a pipeline deal already done on that project. The current Chief Minister would have done the deal. However, they are not ready to make that commitment. It is still questionable what resource they have. Every one of you argues we should be gifting or giving 300 PJ of gas to the township of Nhulunbuy ...
Mr STYLES: A point or order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Pursuant to Standing Order 77, I seek an extension of time for the member.
Motion agreed to.
Mr TOLLNER: I do not know what you people on the other side tell people in your electorates. How do you explain it to people in your electorates? ‘I am prepared to sacrifice your future, because we have to give all of the available gas to one large multinational company.’ How do you tell your people that? How do you tell them that, members for Barkly, Casuarina, Nightcliff, Fannie Bay, and Karama? The member for Karama does not really care about much outside of political muckraking, but how do you tell your constituents that? ‘We are prepared to do a deal that gives away every available bit of gas the government has, and we have no certainty in the future.’ You cannot!
How do you then turn around and say to companies like Vista Gold, Crocodile Gold, ERA at Jabiru, Rio Tinto, ‘Sorry we cannot help your little operation because we have given every available bit of gas we have to Rio Tinto at Nhulunbuy’? How do you run that line in your electorates? I am curious to know. How can you say, ‘All right, we are prepared to do this’? I know there is a bit of self-interest here. I look at my electorate and I could not tell the good citizens of Ludmilla, ‘By the way, there could be a bit of danger here. Maybe the lights will go off, maybe they will not. Maybe you will have a 40% or 50% increase in power prices because we have decided to give all the available energy we have to Nhulunbuy.’ I could not do that.
We have to do things that are responsible. Gary Gray recognises that; we all recognise that. You guys are not talking logically or sensibly. You are sitting here solely for political muckraking and trying to cover up the failures of the member for Nhulunbuy. Goodness me, what do you want a member of your team to do? Surely standing for something must mean something. Why is it that you reward people who sit down, shut their mouth, say nothing, and watch their communities go to hell in a hand basket? That is ridiculous.
The member for Nhulunbuy should have been in here over the last five years taking every opportunity to say, ‘It is not just a multinational company that needs this, there are people’s lives and businesses affected by this in Nhulunbuy. Please do something. Please start talking to the company.’ You rant about the INPEX project. I am curious to know whether there was any discussion in the early days about INPEX supplying a little gas for Nhulunbuy. You knew these things were on the horizon. Why did you not do anything when you were in government? Why do you now say it is all our fault? What a ridiculous thought. It is crazy.
You said, ‘The former Chief Minister and the current Chief Minister have different plans. One is an egg and one is a nice bloke.’ The fact is, both of them were working for the future of Nhulunbuy and, at the same time, keeping an eye on what was right for the entire Territory. That is what we are about: responsible government. You are on that side of the Chamber because everything you demonstrated whilst in government was anything but responsible.
Why are we staring down the barrel at $5.5bn worth of debt? Because the Opposition Leader, then the Treasurer, wanted to play cheapjack political games. She could not say no. Why do we have a medi-hotel that cost $18.5m to build and no funding to run it? Because the Opposition Leader could not say no. Federal Labor wanted to build us a hospital - I suggest it was more like an overflow - at Palmerston for $110m, which came with $50m recurrent funding. Where would that come from? The former Treasurer could not say no. Now we are buggers and mongrels because we are taking a sensible look, and the Minister for Health is reviewing it and doing a proper study, which is something you guys should have done when you were in government.
It defies logic that we listen to the tirade from you guys, particularly when the Chief Minister bares it all and says, ‘This is where we are at’. He gave a report to the parliament and all you guys have to say is, ‘Why will he not visit? Why will he not stand up for the people of Nhulunbuy? Why will he not do this?’ It is a damn good question which the member for Nhulunbuy should ask herself. Why will she not represent Nhulunbuy? Why did she not say something in the past? Why will she not call a public meeting and explain what is going on? She got a briefing last night. She has an opportunity; she is armed with all the facts. She knows exactly what is going on. Why does she not go out there and say, ‘This is the situation the government is in. Like it or lump it, this is where we have to go. We work for the company. Let us stop lobbying them to do a better deal with the government.’ Have an opinion one way or the other to say, ‘Let us try to look at this another way’ or ‘Let us do this’.
At least now we have a concrete offer on the table of 175 PJ: a dual generation option where they can generate with heavy oil and gas. We have left the door open for further gas when it comes online. What is wrong with that deal? In my mind it does two things; it gives Nhulunbuy a future, but it also gives the entire Northern Territory a future. We have an economy we want to develop. We want new mines, industries, businesses, and all of that. We are not going to give the whole lot to one township and stop the development of the rest of the Territory.
We all have to work cooperatively together. That is what the Chief Minister has been doing with Pacific Aluminium, the Commonwealth, and Territorians generally. That is what this is about, and the former Chief Minister was doing the same thing.
It is a shame you guys want to play silly political games. It is more important that the Opposition Leader ducks upstairs and steals sandwiches from schoolkids than sit here …
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62: offensive. He should withdraw.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Could you withdraw that? It is your choice.
Mr TOLLNER: I will withdraw that. It is okay for the Opposition Leader to pop upstairs and take sandwiches from schoolkids ...
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: If you forget the sandwiches, Treasurer, it might be appropriate.
Mr TOLLNER: I was informed she does not eat sausage rolls. It is hard to …
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62: offensive.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you withdraw that please, Treasurer?
Mr TOLLNER: I withdraw that. What were you eating, Opposition Leader? What is not offensive? You ate all the lamingtons, did you? Goodness me, you ran a censure motion. You ranted and raved, carried on, called the Chief Minister all types of names such as a liar who reneges, then, as soon as there was a response, out of the Chamber, upstairs into the food and the soft drinks and anything else put on by the member for Fong Lim ...
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Treasurer, you have about four minutes to go. You might want to get back to the subject. That would be good, thank you.
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62: offensive. I ask he withdraws those remarks.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry, I did not hear them. What remarks were they?
Ms LAWRIE: The remarks referring to me tucking into a variety of foods and drinks and whatever I could get my hands on. It is not correct and is also offensive and totally irrelevant to the topic and discussion.
Mr Elferink: Can we stop the clock for a second, Mr Deputy Speaker?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we stop the clock for a minute, please.
Mr ELFERINK: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Offensive and unbecoming remarks are accusations and those types of things. We have heard the Leader of the Opposition, on a number of occasions, trawling into this place using words like ‘rat’ and ‘liar’. For her to take umbrage to an observation by a member on this side of the House and that eating is in some way offensive is precious in an unreasonable way. If the Chair is seriously going to contemplate ruling the words ‘sausage roll’ or ‘lamington’ out of order, we will soon be out of nouns in this House.
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62. He is constantly digressing from the topic and what he is saying is offensive in the way he is saying it.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have not found any of the words offensive. I have found them annoying, so if we could stick with the subject please, Treasurer.
Mr TOLLNER: Mr Deputy Speaker, the argument being presented by these guys is not about the future of the people in Nhulunbuy, it is about cheapjack politics.
Let the member for Karama deny she was in the Nitmuluk Room yesterday with a bunch of schoolkids whilst they were having morning tea. Let her deny she helped herself to some of the food. You cannot deny that. You might think it is offensive, but you did it. Goodness me, wonderful stuff. Whilst I was here taking up my time responding to your censure motion, you were up there eating my food.
At least the member for Nhulunbuy paid more attention than that; at least she got up. Credit to her, after five years she has found her tongue, responded and made some points about what the Chief Minister had to say in this statement. I found the statement by the member for Nhulunbuy equally offensive. She was talking about the CLP punishing Gove for having a Labor member. It is ridiculous, but she truly believes it.
I went to that function. She said no one knew where it was. Well, 100 people quickly found it. No one tried to hide it. Someone called me during the day and said, ‘Lynne Walker wants to know whether she can come to the function’. I said, ‘Of course, everyone is invited. Tell her to bring a crowd.’ And didn’t she! It was not the future of Gove they were talking about there, it was about having a crack at the government and Lynne riling people up and getting them to almost riot. That is what it was about.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank the Chief Minister for bringing on this statement and informing us more about what is happening in these negotiations.
Mr GILES (Chief Minister): Mr Deputy Speaker …
Ms Lawrie: Excuse me, Mr Deputy Speaker! I am on my feet. I indicated I wish to speak to the debate. I did seek your call. It is convention in this parliament not to wrap up the statement until the members who wish to speak have spoken. It is a convention of this parliament to not wrap the statement until I have spoken.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, I saw the Chief Minister standing first. I am sorry, and I call the Chief Minister. Thank you.
Mr GILES: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker …
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Many people have indicated they might want to speak as well.
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! It is not normal to gag the Leader of the Opposition in a debate. I am here to speak about gas to Gove. Chief Minister, you may not want to hear what I have to say, but I have the right as an elected member of this parliament to say it. I was in a meeting with the Chamber of Commerce, coincidentally on the subject of gas to Gove. I was meeting with the executive when the debate commenced. I am here and I want to speak.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, sit down! If we are talking about a point of order, there is no need to ramble on. Now ..
Mr ELFERINK: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! In a telephone exchange between me and the member for Fannie Bay, the Opposition Whip, last night there was some discussion about how many speakers there would be. We indicated one on each side. They asked for two. At 9.43 pm I texted the Opposition Whip, ‘Yes to two speakers on gas to Gove. Elf’. Response at 9.43 pm from Mr Gunner, ‘Ta’. I do not think we could have been much clearer that it was two speakers each side ...
Mr Giles: We can manage our time.
Mr ELFERINK: It is a question of quality of management.
Ms LAWRIE: Speaking to the point of order, in response to the information provided by the Leader of the Government Business, there is no doubt the intention was two speakers from the opposition. The intention was that I would be either the first or second speaker. Due to a pre-existing commitment I had with the Chamber of Commerce Northern Territory Executive, I was physically in a meeting with them discussing gas to Gove when the statement was under way. I did not get back to the building in time to stand to be the second speaker, but I am here now. Will the government hear me out? For democracy, and not gagging the opposition, will you hear the Leader of the Opposition on gas to Gove in your statement, or will you continue to hide and use the weight of your numbers in this Chamber to shut down debate? It is up to you, Chief Minister, whether you will give me the chance to speak in this debate …
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Treasurer, you have the call.
Ms LAWRIE: … or whether you will hide behind this charade?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, I will not say it again! Please, sit down. Treasurer.
Mr TOLLNER: Mr Deputy Speaker, in relation to this point of order, I point out to the Leader of the Opposition that, generally, when parliament is sitting, parliament takes priority over everything else. Whether you are meeting with the Chamber of Commerce, the Girl Guides or a primary school in the Nitmiluk Lounge, the parliament generally takes priority. That is a general perception of all of us here. If you are not available for the debate, you are not available for the debate. You cannot turn up whenever you like. The world does not revolve around the Leader of the Opposition …
Ms Lawrie: I am available and I am here!
Mr TOLLNER: I am sorry to say it, but you had had a chance.
Ms Lawrie: I am available and I am here!
Mr Deputy SPEAKER: Can I have a bit of order, please. I am going to make a ruling and I will make it right now. The Treasurer is correct; that is, parliament takes precedence over meetings. The agreement was two speakers on either side. That has been completed. Chief Minister, you have the call.
Ms Lawrie: You are gagging the Leader of the Opposition to your shame!
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: There will be no interruptions …
Ms Lawrie: You are gagging me to your shame!
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, can you leave the Chamber please, and leave immediately!
Ms Lawrie: You are an embarrassment!
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I find that offensive, and I name you, Leader of the Opposition!
Ms Lawrie: You are an embarrassment. You are not a Deputy Speaker, you are an embarrassment. Gag debate …
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of Government Business, can you speak to that naming please?
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Yes, Mr Deputy Speaker. What the Leader of the Opposition has just done is reflect on the Chair directly. This, of course, is something that might be a matter for the Privileges Committee to consider. I urge, at this stage, that all members calm down, that the Chief Minister, who has the call, be allowed to complete his comments, and I, along with the Speaker, and perhaps the member for Fannie Bay can have a discussion about this and what would be the appropriate next action.
Madam SPEAKER: Chief Minister, you have the call.
Mr GILES: Thank you, Madam Speaker. If I had the opportunity of having the call, as much as I agreed with the argument by the Treasurer and the Leader of Government Business, I would have allowed the Opposition Leader to keep speaking and adjourned the debate after that.
I will adjourn the matter, and we can continue the debate at a later date.
Debate adjourned.
Mrs LAMBLEY (Alcohol Rehabilitation): Madam Speaker, today I outline the progress made since the passing of the Alcohol Mandatory Treatment Bill on 28 June 2013. I acknowledge the hard work and professionalism displayed by all individuals in the Department of Health, the Department of the Attorney-General and Justice, and the police involved in the alcohol mandatory treatment process.
The Country Liberals took a commitment to the August 2012 election on this issue. We said we would scrap Labor’s failed Banned Drinker Register and introduce mandatory alcohol rehabilitation for the Territory’s worst alcohol abusers. Labor’s failed Banned Drinker Register saw 20 000 people cycle through the protective custody revolving door and an increase in domestic violence and antisocial behaviour. We made the commitment to Territorians to scrap the Banned Drinker Register and end Labor’s protective custody revolving door, and I am proud to say that within the first 12 months, we are delivering on that commitment.
Before I outline some of the early successes that have occurred as a result of mandatory alcohol treatment, it is important to acknowledge the mess left to us by Labor in the alcohol supply, demand, and harm minimisation space. First, for 11 years Labor failed to address the harm caused by alcohol abuse in the Territory through any form of demand reduction strategies. In the Big Brother world that Labor often likes to operate in, they believe in penalising and restricting all of the community rather than focusing on those in greatest need of assistance and providing the resources to ensure they get the help they need.
Labor’s sole focus on supply measures and their failure to develop comprehensive supply, demand and harm minimisation measures, has not helped stop the revolving door of protective custody. It has not made a dint in our unacceptably high rates of domestic violence and has not reduced the antisocial behaviour that is the scourge of our streets. In fact, Labor, at both the Commonwealth and Territory levels, has been obsessed with supply side measures in remote communities and their policies can be directly linked to the rise in problems experienced in our urban centres. Labor’s only thought on how to fix the problem they created? More supply measures. It is nonsensical.
The Country Liberals believe in developing a holistic strategy for dealing with alcohol abuse in the Northern Territory. Our comprehensive plans will have a range of supply, demand, and harm minimisation measures and will be led by the apt Minister for Alcohol Policy, my colleague, the member for Fong Lim.
Part of our solution – and I stress part - is our alcohol mandatory treatment. Still in its infancy, it is already having an effect and improving the situation in our communities.
Since the commencement of the legislation on 1 July 2013 and up to 20 August, there have been 216 people across the Territory taken into protective custody twice and, therefore, are on track to be clients of the service system. Of the 85 people who have had three protective custodies across the Territory, 21 were excluded from alcohol mandatory treatment with outstanding charges and, therefore, referred to the justice system. Northern Territory Police have transferred 36 people to assessment services in Darwin, Alice Springs, and Katherine. Of the people referred to assessment, 18 received an alcohol mandatory treatment order, eight were released without an order, with 10 undergoing assessment midway through the second month of operations. I stress the last of these statistics: there are 18 people across the Territory receiving much-needed treatment and rehabilitation for their chronic alcohol addiction.
Never before has the Northern Territory government provided a solid option for the revolving door of alcohol-related protective custodies. Labor watched 20 000 people being taken into protective custody in 2012-13 and said their alcohol strategy was working. This irrational argument did not wash and did not dupe the people of the Northern Territory, nor did it match the evidence that domestic violence and antisocial behaviour increased.
These statistics represent individuals who, until now, have gone through the revolving door of protective custody - not referred to support services - and then been let go back into the community without being given meaningful treatment and the opportunity to change their lives. It is the stories of these individuals and the outcomes they are reaching which will be crucial in measuring the success of alcohol mandatory treatment.
Our first client had a history of frequent interaction with the police, the criminal justice system, and the health system. The woman from Central Australia was apprehended by the police in Alice Springs and taken into protective custody on 3 July, activating the first trigger. The final two triggers were activated seven days later and within a 24-hour time frame of each other. For several years, this woman has gone through many trials and tribulations as a result of her alcohol abuse.
The Chairperson of CAAAPU, Ms Eileen Hoosan, was asked on ABC radio’s Law Report on 13 August 2013 for information on the mandatory treatment system’s first client. This is what she had to say:
There you have it, just the type of person we were hoping would be brought into our system: an individual who had slipped through the cracks, someone who had been unable to access the medical and counselling services she desperately needs.
When asked how the client is doing, Ms Hoosan said:
On behalf of all my Country Liberals colleagues, I wish this client every success in changing her behaviour and getting her life back on track, and I congratulate her for the steps already taken to take back control of her destiny.
Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs LAMBLEY: When asked by the journalist whether CAAAPU would be happy to treat people who have had an order made against their will, this was Ms Hoosan’s response:
On criticisms of the alcohol mandatory treatment system, Ms Hoosan went further:
This, our very first alcohol mandatory treatment client, is a great story. This is a story of success for the individual, her family and her community.
Another example is the first client through the doors of the Darwin alcohol assessment and treatment service was apprehended by police on 19 July 2013. The client’s family was actively involved in both the assessment and tribunal processes. The client, and all of her family, agreed she should engage in a mandated treatment program.
Through the tribunal process, it became clear the client wished to attend a family member’s funeral in a remote community. The tribunal leave was important to her to attend to this cultural business. Her family arranged to take her home, ensured she maintained a safe lifestyle and has stayed in touch with the clinical team. The woman will return to treatment at the conclusion of the leave. This case demonstrates the opportunities available from working with clients’ families. This client, again, had a history of cycling through protective custody without intervention.
Our alcohol mandatory treatment system is a caring, flexible and sensitive health service that is already demonstrating an ability to cater to the individual needs of clients.
On 31 July 2013, a 40-year-old man was apprehended by police and taken into protective custody for the third time since 1 July 2013. Before July, this man had been taken into protective custody five times over the previous five months and is another example of a person interacting on the edges of a range of services and repeatedly drinking to the point of being a risk to themselves and others in the community without any diversionary intervention.
Northern Territory Police are key partners with the Department of Health in the implementation of the alcohol mandatory treatment approach. Police have improved the identification processes used when taking a person into protective custody. Use of enhanced identity processes have identified those people trying to bypass the system through the use of aliases, and have also picked up a number of people with outstanding charges. Outstanding charges range from damage to property, contravention of domestic violence orders, breach of bail, disorderly behaviour, and aggravated unlawful entry.
A number of issues have been identified which are consistent with the implementation of any new and evolving service system. The absconding of patients is an example.
It is important that the services are robust enough to ensure all clients referred because they need to break the cycle of use of alcohol remain in the service. The impact on their lives and the community demonstrated by three protective custody occasions in two months must stop. We must balance this with a need to create services that suit the majority: those who take the opportunity to break the cycle of alcohol use and engage in treatment. This is the experience of the majority. We also need to learn from these experiences and ensure the services and evaluation of the outcomes they deliver focus on both the short- and longer-term outcomes.
In the short term, the services need to deliver safe therapeutic care to the majority. In the longer term, clients need to have engaged in a program which supports them to stop drinking, to engage in employment, and engage in the life of their family and community.
With the bedding down of this rapid first phase of implementation, I am looking towards phase two of this program. This phase will include the letting of an expression of interest later this month for the construction of a purpose-built facility and the operation of the treatment service in Katherine. It will also mean moving the Darwin treatment facility from its current site to a new location, which was announced earlier today, and an EOI process encouraging interested parties to put their hand up to run the service. Greater capacity in Alice Springs will also be explored, and capacity in Tennant Creek and on the Tiwi Islands is also a priority.
I continue to encourage other communities to come forward and nominate themselves for culturally appropriate treatment services. Phase two will also see the incorporation of alcohol mandatory treatment into our broader range of Alcohol and Other Drugs programs and services, as well as a strong focus on developing aftercare services. Aftercare and the development of alcohol mandatory treatment with ancillary and support services will ensure an individual is provided with healthcare, no matter at what point along the alcohol abuse spectrum they are.
There is also an enormous opportunity to work with the client’s family to increase the likelihood of continued behavioural change. The impact on the family from alcohol is often the greatest, particularly where there are children exposed to the violence caused by alcohol. Aftercare provides an opportunity to change this path, not only for the individual, but the whole family.
It is clear we have big plans to improve the alcohol mandatory treatment system into the future as part of our work to improve the Alcohol and Other Drugs sector more broadly.
However, it is with disappointment that I note that Labor and their mates in Canberra have found it suitable to deny the tool of income management to this important program. Despite assurances to the contrary, federal Labor minister Macklin did not sign off on income management powers prior to the Commonwealth entering caretaker conventions.
That means some of our first clients leaving mandatory treatment will have a war chest of Centrelink payments built up, which they may choose to spend on alcohol and other social undesirables free from income management which may have assisted them to keep on top of their addictions. If this happens, and I hope it does not, it is Labor which has turned the tap back on for these people, rather than working with us to ensure their income is directed towards their families’ needs.
In the end, however, I am hopeful that after the federal election a more rational and sensible approach will be taken to policy formation in Canberra. I am confident that income management will become an important tool in our alcohol mandatory treatment system.
Alcohol mandatory treatment is a major addition to the range of supply, demand, and harm reduction strategies in place across the Northern Territory. The Northern Territory has a contemporary alcohol licensing framework. This means that Alice Springs has some of the toughest alcohol supply restrictions in the country.
The government is committed to a holistic review of the alcohol mandatory treatment system, and has already developed the evaluation framework to ensure the implementation of this policy initiative is robustly reviewed. We do not believe we have anything to hide and, over time, the alcohol mandatory treatment system will bear fruit. As I have outlined, it has already shown positive, early results.
In closing, I thank the staff of the Department of Health who are working at the coalface to deliver this initiative for government. Since early this year, they have enthusiastically set up the services, then operated them 24 hours per day, seven days per week. They have undertaken clinical duties and modified their practice based on the lessons learnt from each new client.
I also thank all of our non-government organisation partners and make special mention of the Board of CAAAPU for their unflagging support of the initiative and for supporting their staff to deliver such an impressive service in such a short space of time. I am pleased that CAAAPU and the Department of Health have been able to collaborate by basing a clinical staff member from the department at CAAAPU.
I also acknowledge and thank critics of mandatory treatment. Ours is an evolving program and the government has confidence that we can, and will, improve alcohol mandatory treatment over the coming months and years, and that it will grow to be an exemplar of a forward-thinking, pragmatic and meaningful health response to the scourge of alcohol abuse.
To that end, we welcome all constructive comments and advice on our system. The Giles government is an open and transparent government. We do not believe in gagging public servants or the non-government organisation sector, and want both groups to raise any concerns they have in a constructive and productive manner as we seek to improve our response to alcohol abuse in the Territory.
As I have travelled throughout the Territory meeting with a diverse range of community groups and stakeholders to discuss alcohol mandatory treatment, I have felt heartened by the widespread support for mandatory rehabilitation. Very few have not seen the merit in the principles behind alcohol mandatory treatment. I have been struck by the stories people and service providers have told me about the need to do something and that alcohol mandatory treatment represents a real change in breaking the cycle of alcohol abuse. From mothers to health workers, the need to break this cycle is clear. The Giles government believes our alcohol mandatory treatment system provides a real opportunity for people to break the cycle, get their lives back on track, and engage productively with their family and the community.
Madam Speaker, I move that the Assembly take note of this statement.
Mr GUNNER (Fannie Bay): Madam Speaker, we welcome the statement. I believe we have had at least one alcohol debate every sitting since the last election.
We all agree excessive consumption of alcohol is an issue in the Northern Territory, but we have a difference of opinion in how we tackle it. What we do agree on is rehabilitation, both voluntary and mandatory. We discussed that during the second reading of the bill and covered it in previous debates in this Chamber, including our last term in government. We want to make an effort to define a point of intervention and try to make a difference in someone’s life. We do agree on that.
What we disagree on is mandatory detention for rehabilitation. We listened to the advice of experts who said if you do not want to be rehabilitated, you will not be, and detaining people will be an expensive policy and a waste of time and money. It will come with a huge opportunity cost. We believe that is common sense. Rehabilitation is hard, and the studies show you need to do it repeatedly before it works.
We all know somebody who has had an addiction - most likely tobacco, but sometimes alcohol - and we have seen their struggles with rehabilitation. Rehabilitation is hard. We had, through the Enough Is Enough policy, a comprehensive approach with diversions, incentives, and consequences. For example, we had the ability through the Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal to income manage problem drunks. If you did not want to be income managed, you needed to go through treatment.
Under Labor, from 1 January 2012 to 30 June 2012 there were about 670 people referred to treatment for alcohol rehabilitation through the Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal. I am happy to read the letter from that tribunal to the then Minister for Health and Alcohol Policy, Hon Dave Tollner:
These interventions had, for a lot less expense, similar case studies to those the minister cited in her statement. Yet, the minister said in her ministerial statement there were no demand measures under Labor. That is wrong. We had approaches on demand, supply, and harm minimisation.
The CLP scrapped the Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal which meant they scrapped income management in the NT. The Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal had the power to income manage problem drunks. In their haste to scrap anything to do with Labor, they threw away the powers to income manage problem drunks and have spent a year working out how to get those powers back. This was a bad decision by the CLP. They should have never thrown away the powers to income manage problem drunks. It has led to a wasted year.
The CLP is failing Territorians with their alcohol policies and spending $45m of taxpayers’ money this year doing it. They promised to immediately remove problem drunks from our streets. It was on the front page of their 100-day plan. The CLP has, in 361 days, taken 18 people into treatment. The CLP Chief Minister said the success rate will be 5% - 5% of 18 is 0.9 of a problem drunk. That means less than one problem drunk on our streets has been dealt with - almost one problem drunk in 361 days. It is quite an extraordinary breaking of a promise to Territorians.
Under Labor, a problem drunk could be income managed. Under the CLP, a problem drunk can spend all they have on alcohol. Under the CLP, if you are banned from drinking alcohol you can walk into any takeaway outlet and buy as much alcohol as you can afford. Yet the CLP remains confused as to why its alcohol policies are criticised.
Also, remarkably, the minister talked about revolving doors as a policy failure. There is a revolving door at the medi-hotel: there must be for Brewdini to keep escaping. The CLP policy is secure care for a problem drunk to be detained for three months while they are treated. Yet escaping is apparently a measure of success. This is an extraordinary explanation that has been actively mocked in pubs, at back yard barbecues, and in staffrooms. Nobody believes escape is a measure of success.
Most people are caught between shock and laughter as to how to deal with that as an explanation. They do not know how to deal with revelations that a serial escapee has escaped four or five times from the medi-hotel.
Despite what the CLP thinks, escape is not a measure of success. This is not the Shawshank Redemption or the Great Escape. It is much more like Looney Tunes. Escaping from the medi-hotel is not a sign your alcohol policies are working. They have lost touch with reality if they claim escaping is a sign of success. It is a joke, but one with serious consequences because there is, essentially, a prison on hospital grounds in the northern suburbs from which it is easy for people to escape.
The medi-hotel needs to be returned to its original purpose: looking after sick Territorians and helping take the pressure of the Royal Darwin Hospital. It is concerning that the CLP seems to be making up its policy as it goes along. Only two weeks ago the minister said, ‘We are not setting up a prison for these people. Of course, we are looking to make it more secure, but we are not going to turn it into a prison.’ The CLP has often defended this policy as a health measure. They defend locking up someone for three months who has not committed a crime by saying it is a health measure. Today, though, the minister announced that Darwin’s alcohol mandatory treatment facility will be relocated to an improved and secure facility at the Darwin Correctional Centre. They are going to the prison.
The CLP is making up this policy as it goes along. Three weeks ago they said putting alcohol rehabilitation patients in a prison would be ridiculous but today that is exactly what they have announced. Putting alcohol rehabilitation patients in with prisoners is ridiculous. It goes against the advice of every expert, but the CLP has ignored every expert, including the police, on how to tackle alcohol crime. The CLP has claimed the new prison will be full when it opens, but today they announced they plan to fit in hundreds of alcohol rehabilitation patients as well, over the course of a year. Who are they going to let out to let them in? They are moving the alcohol rehabilitation patients to the prison, despite saying this is a health measure and not a corrections measure.
We can all call this change in policy the Brewdini Exemption. We note with great interest that Brewdini’s escapes are not one of the case studies. The interest in this statement, broadly amongst the public, would have increased dramatically if it included details of Brewdini’s escapes. Brewdini has quickly become a Territory character. To put some of his quotes on the record:
I do not think it is quite reasonable to say they let him go; he escaped four or five times. Yet, apparently, Brewdini is a success story because escaping is a sign of the policy’s success. The Chief Minister has said a 5% success rate of mandatory detention for rehabilitation is what they are expecting. If one in 18 is escaping, the CLP is running at roughly a 5% success rate. After a year of promising to immediately remove all drunks from the street, they have dealt with one.
I remind members this is costing taxpayers $45m this year. The CLP ignored or gagged experts when drafting their alcohol policy and Territorians are paying for it at cost of $90 000 per person treated. Taxpayers are paying $45m this year for the CLP’s mistakes on alcohol.
We always agree in this Chamber that there is a problem with the excessive consumption of alcohol in the Northern Territory, we need to deal with it, and you need to have supply measures, demand measures, and harm minimisation measures. Yet we do not believe this government is taking serious measures around supply, and it mocks us for our focus on supply. The CLP is showing an absence in the policy for tackling supply issues.
There is no doubt they have demand measures. In fact, they are spending an incredible amount of money on demand measures, where all the experts are saying mandatory detention for rehabilitation is an incredibly expensive option when there are other ways to deal with rehabilitation, both mandatory and voluntary.
There is a difference between our two parties in how we tackle alcohol in the Northern Territory. The minister has said she is open for comment. We say there needs to be some serious discussion about how we move forward on supply. We have had many debates in this House recently about demand, and I am sure we will have more. However, there needs to be more focus from the government around tackling supply.
I will say one more time, it is a real tragedy the CLP scrapped the income management powers we had in the Northern Territory through the Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal. Those were important powers for the Northern Territory, and by losing them we have wasted a year. They are trying to get those powers back, but they should never have scrapped them in the first place. I understand when they first came in, they said, ‘Labor did this; we want to get rid of Labor things’, but in their haste to do that they lost a very important power for the Northern Territory and we have had a wasted year since.
Madam Speaker, there is a difference of opinion between our two parties on how we tackle alcohol. There is a range of things on which we do agree, but there is a very fundamental difference about mandatory detention for rehabilitation. We note this statement.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, I thank the minister for making this statement. I have been listening to the debate from both sides. The minister will know I did not vote last time. I came under some fairly heavy criticism from the member for Greatorex, but I can live with that because my concerns were relevant.
I support the idea of mandatory rehabilitation for more than just trying to help someone who has a chronic alcohol problem; it also gives the community a break. That is sometimes forgotten in this debate. This debate has been going on for a number of years. Some years ago I was approached by some business people in Darwin who were sick of some of the behaviour occurring on their properties and they wanted something done. People have the right to have some peace and quiet in their own back yard, literally. Also, on the other side of it we are saying, ‘We will try to help you through a period in your life where you have lost control’. It is a matter of compassion on one hand, and giving the community relief from some of the problems caused by people who do not control themselves because of alcohol abuse.
I need to make it clear that I support what the government is trying to do, but with some concerns. I take up the issues the member for Fannie Bay raised. We have to be careful we do not get stuck in the one size fits all. I said before, having the BDR along with what you are doing, plus the alcohol tribunal, may have allowed us to look at the problem from a range of options: supply and demand, voluntary processes through the tribunal - voluntary to the point where you have an option to do this or do that and, if you do not, you have mandatory alcohol rehabilitation as part of that process.
I always am annoyed that we get into this partisan debate over alcohol in the Northern Territory, because those people who are drunk are not Labor or Liberal supporters, they are human beings. We need to ensure we work as hard as we can as a parliament, not putting all our energies into bashing one another up over whose policies are better, but seeing whether we are broadminded enough to say, ‘Just because one party had the idea does not mean it is, necessarily, a bad idea’. There are times when we could combine the best ideas that come forward from this parliament to try to find solutions to a very difficult problem.
I am still not sure my concerns have been sorted. The member for Fannie Bay mentioned the person who has escaped about four or five times. It highlights one of the concerns I had in the beginning. It was not the principle of what you were doing, minister, it is that I felt the security was not up to scratch. I have been to the medi-hostel. I was there before it was converted, and again a few weeks after it was converted, and I found it had an extra fence of chain mesh with plain wire on top. That would not take a lot to get over. The minister did not want it to look like a prison and I understand that as well.
However, if people had been to look at the secure care centre at Holtze, they would have seen there is a fence there that is approximately - I will have a guess - 1.8 m, maybe 2 m high, made of a mesh used in prisons that you cannot grab hold of; it has rectangular squares. At the top it has a barrel that rolls which means it is very hard to get over. However, when you go to the secure care centre you would not think it was a prison; it is not barbed wire. That is the type of security I would have preferred at the front.
The government wanted to get this program up and running and sometimes in haste you do things because you want the program to get under way. I understand that but my concern was it was introduced too quickly. I may be wrong.
My other concern was the security, health and safety of anybody who was in those facilities. I know there were some changes to the rooms at the medi-hostel so there were fewer hanging points.
I visited CAAAPU and I understand they support it. I had a meeting with them. They are very good people who are passionate about doing something for people affected by alcohol. When they showed me the plans, I was shown two second-hand demountables. Again, it gave me the impression of, ‘We need to do something now, we will put two second-hand demountables in’. I kept thinking of hanging points and wondering whether this is the design of a building which will house someone who does not want to be there. They will be incarcerated; is this really the way we should be approaching it?
I am pleased the government is at least looking at alternatives. The member for Fannie Bay said - I have seen the media release - that by next year the medi-hostel will be returned to its original purpose. When the new prison opens there will be the possibility of the low-security section of the prison being used for this purpose. At least there is a bit more space there. I do not agree with the member for Fannie Bay; he inferred they would be out with other prisoners. I am presuming that will not happen.
There is an excellent garden there. I know the garden will be shifted to the new prison. I have always felt this has to be a little more than just a little house where you keep someone for three months. You want things that people can do, whether it is gardening, a little sport, or some education. I have always felt we need a more holistic approach to working with these people. We are not just putting them there as people to be assessed purely as patients. They are there because we are trying to show them we have compassion and want to change their lives, but we are not treating them as a number, as a statistic; we are dealing with them as individuals. We are giving them some options while they are there, with a little hope that some of those options may just be the trigger that turns their life around. At the back of the secure care centre there is some bush with a garden and room to move. They might be able to do some cooking. They are the sort of things we need to look at.
I worry that, so far, we seem to have put everybody into what you might call the higher security side of this program. I know the minister said we are looking for expressions of interest for people out bush. That should be the priority, rather than tying people up in fairly strict regime facilities. When you read the Principles in the act, it says:
That is where the alcohol tribunal would come into play:
That is one of the gaps we have for which we do not seem to have the option except to put them in a little town facility. I have mentioned healing centres as an option before. I was talking to someone the other day and I realised there is a healing centre site and people can apply to the Commonwealth for money for healing centres. That should be the first option, especially for people who come from remote communities. That is the carrot, and the stick is if you move away from that area - I imagine that will not be fenced or secure like our town facilities – then you are required to stay in a more secure facility in Darwin or Alice Springs.
The other area that will need to be looked at is we are living in hope that this program will change people’s lives. The minister has given us some figures of how many people have been assessed and have been put through so far. Of course, people have to stay for three months, so I presume no one in there has come out yet, except for a certain gentleman who has a habit of getting out. We need to look at is whether this has made any difference to a person’s life. The minister has given a figure. It is dangerous to give a figure. I have spoken to people who are involved in voluntary rehabilitation of people with an alcohol problem. Even where people are in voluntarily, rehabilitation is very difficult. Many times people have to go back …
Mr ELFERINK: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I noticed it is just before 5.30 pm and we have the matter of the disorder of the Leader of the Opposition to deal with. Consequently, I move several things. The first thing I move is that the member for Nelson be allowed to continue his comments at a later time.
Then I move that so much of standing orders be suspended as to enable the matter of the Leader of the Opposition’s disorder to be dealt with forthwith, notwithstanding the 5.30 pm suspension for General Business. I consequently move that so much of standing orders be suspended to enable that matter to be brought on forthwith and that the suspension of the Leader of the Opposition be for a period of 24 hours commencing from the time of her ejection from this House.
The reason we do this is that the Leader of the Opposition’s conduct was so gross and offensive, not only to members of this House, the decorum of this House, but also to the Chair, it would be improper for this House not to respond in an appropriate fashion. I have read the standing orders in relation to this, and I understand it is the interpretation of some that this motion should have been brought on immediately. That is one part of the reason we are seeking to suspend standing orders, because it was not brought on immediately.
Nevertheless, the reason this side of the House brings it on is because we believe she has exceeded all sensible decorum. To refer to the Chair as an embarrassment on two occasions on the way out of the door is a reflection on the Chair that deserves to be dealt with in the appropriate fashion. Consequently, that is the motion I bring before the House today.
We have seen from the conduct of the Leader of the Opposition …
Mr WOOD: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I am not sure that my reply is finished. We have not voted to say it should be …
Mr Elferink: Can we deal with the first motion that I put then, which was all of that stuff?
Mr Vatskalis: What is the motion?
Madam SPEAKER: The motion is ..
Mr Elferink: That the member for Nelson be allowed to finish his comments at a later time.
Madam SPEAKER: The motion is that the member for Nelson continue his remarks at a later stage.
Motion agreed to.
Debate adjourned.
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, my second motion, so that it is clear, is that the normal order of General Business be suspended until such time as this matter is dealt with.
Mr WOOD: A point of order, Madam Speaker! A point of clarification. I do not know anything about what is going on, but if it is going to be a debate, will General Business hours be extended by the period which is lost by this debate?
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Nelson, it will cut into the time of General Business unless the government makes arrangements to the contrary to provide General Business activities at a later time of this week’s and next week’s sittings. So, yes, it will cut into General Business activities between 5.30 pm and 9 pm today.
Mr WOOD: Could I ask, Madam Speaker, for a ruling on whether this should have been dealt with at a particular time because I know nothing about it.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Nelson, that is why the Leader of Government Business is moving to suspend standing orders. The motion before the House is that so much of standing orders be suspended as will allow the matter of naming the member for Karama, the Opposition Leader, to be dealt with forthwith.
Motion agreed to.
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, so we can be clear, I move that the suspension of the Leader of the Opposition be for a period of 24 hours, commencing from the time of her ejection from this House. I note that now you have the question before you, under Standing Order 240, that no amendment, adjournment, or debate be allowed and that question be dealt with immediately.
Motion agreed to.
Mr ELFERINK: Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank honourable members for their support in this motion and we are now back on with General Business.
Mr VATSKALIS (Casuarina): Mr Deputy Speaker, I move that the House supports the Police Beats currently operating successfully in large shopping centres in the NT and calls upon the government to continue the funding of existing Police Beats and to expand Police Beats in other shopping centres in Darwin and urban centres throughout the Territory.
This is a prehistoric motion I brought to this House a few months ago when I was the shadow minister for Police. Since then, things have changed and I believe my colleague, the member for Fannie Bay, is the shadow minister for Police. The shadow minister for Police or minister in waiting, I should say.
However, I would like to speak about the Police Beats that exist in some of the shopping centres in Darwin. Police Beats have been proven in the past few years to be quite successful.
The reason our government introduced Police Beats was because we had a significant number of incidents from groups of kids who acted unruly, in a totally inappropriate way, within the shopping centres. The security officers could not and would not deal with them. At the same time, we thought it had to be safe to go to a shopping centre without the fear of intimidation or being accosted by people. The then Leader of the Opposition strongly opposed the establishment of Police Beats. He even promised that if he was elected to government he would withdraw all Police Beats. However, the Police Beats have proved they are worth being where they are. A good example is the one in Casuarina, in my electorate. There is nothing more reassuring than walking into a shopping centre to see police in uniform patrolling, acting as a deterrent.
I have witnessed kids, especially after high school finishes, who will, en masse, congregate at Casuarina. Most of them behaved totally appropriately. Some of them thought they were smart enough to cause problems which were totally against proper behaviour.
The Police Beat in Casuarina responds very quickly to incidents, not only in the shopping centre, but in areas around the shopping centre, especially areas where itinerants used to congregate and consume alcohol. In many cases, the police intervene quickly, resolve the situation, move people on, and the place quietens down. The change in atmosphere and the attitude of people visiting Casuarina Shopping Square, has completely changed since the Police Beat was established. It is much easier to deal with police matters in the shopping centre. You see the outlet in the shopping centre and you go there, rather than going to the police station at Casuarina or other police stations around town.
We promised, as government, to put Police Beats in Nightcliff and Karama. None have eventuated, and the current government has no intention of establishing Police Beats in Nightcliff or Karama, despite the fact there are issues in both electorates.
In Nightcliff, if you want to see some of the problems you only have to view some of the public housing there. My colleague, the member for Nightcliff, has discussed this with me many times. In the afternoon you can see people congregated and drinking openly in Nightcliff causing problems. I believe the same thing which applied in Casuarina applies in Karama.
The Chief Minister promised a new Police Beat in Northside, Alice Springs, before the election. After the election, not only did he not put a new Police Beat in Northside, he closed the Police Beat at the Alice Springs mall. When it was established it completely changed the nature of the mall. Since then, the mall in Alice Springs has become a very sad place with so many places closed down or having closing down sales because of the economic downturn, and the downturn in tourism in the mall.
We are talking about alcohol rehabilitation, alcohol consumption, and supply. The presence and high visibility of police in certain places deters people from committing offences, congregating and having drinking parties in public places, and provides protection to people to go about their business unaffected by people who are intoxicated or accosting them for money to buy alcohol.
The O’Sullivan report said police savings would cancel out extra money for the police if Police Beats are established. Of course, we promised extra policemen and managed to get new policemen with further funding, especially with the detention centres being established in Darwin, to address some of the detention issues.
We live in a society much different from the one we grew up in. Kids seem to have many rights at the moment, but often they think they can get away with everything. A police presence in shopping centres discourages them from this kind of behaviour, and will probably help them realise if they do something stupid they will receive appropriate punishment. Punishment could be being told off by the police, being brought into the Police Beat and your parents being called in, or even a warning.
Police Beats are essential. They have proved their worth in shopping centres. Similarly, I would like to see more established in other shopping centres. I call upon the government to reverse any opposition to the establishment of Police Beats in hot spots.
On the other hand, I would like to see the government make an assessment of some of the areas in Darwin and other urban centres. I heard yesterday the Chief Minister highlighting some of the areas around the Territory where a more open police presence in a mobile station in a van in public places will help alleviate some of these problems.
The CLP promised to build the Nightcliff Police Station. Now, we hear this is not going to happen. There are issues in Nightcliff with people congregated in the village shopping centres and the foreshore that can be taken care of by a bigger and more prominent presence of police in the area.
Madam Speaker, I said before I brought this motion to the House before when I was the shadow minister for Police. I do not know how many months ago it was. It was probably more than half a year ago. The main thrust of this motion is the Police Beats are essential; they are doing a wonderful job. I call on the government not only to not close the existing Police Beats but to expand the establishment of Police Beats in other areas around the Northern Territory.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, this has been on the Notice Paper for quite a while. I gather it came up when there was some threat of Police Beats being disbanded, or some discussion about that. I gather they still operate in Darwin.
I put a little reminder in for the rural area. At times, the rural area could do with a little more police presence. We are getting a workers’ camp with 3500 people soon. The new shopping centre at Coolalinga is starting to take shape, with Maccas and Coles Express putting in their applications for development. We already have big Woolworths shopping centres at Coolalinga and Humpty Doo.
Yes, we live in the rural area and in 2013, in case people forget; we are not backward out there. In fact, we are probably far more forward than many people think because we live where there is a bit of space; we do not live on 400 m2 blocks, we have room to breathe, people can hit a cricket ball around their back yard, and you can hear the birds. There might be plenty of traffic on Howard Springs Road but, hopefully, when the construction phase finishes, that will bring some of the quiet of the bush back to residents who are probably wondering if they have lost their rural amenity with the changes that have occurred. As I said …
Mr Chandler: What about Palmerston north?
Mr WOOD: Palmerston north, no. If you would like to raise that with the Speaker, I am sure she will let you know there is a history about Palmerston north, especially when the Litchfield Council put out its rate notice one year and marked them Palmerston north. I would not have gone down Wallaby Holtze Road at that time for the life of me. It was a road that would have been unsafe to any member of the council. However, it was changed to Holtze. We digress, member for Brennan.
I am not sure how the Police Beats are going at Palmerston. All I can say is there is a lot of traffic and many people in the rural area. Sometimes, when these discussions about Police Beats in large shopping centres is put before us, people have a fixation that it is Darwin, Palmerston, maybe Katherine and Alice Springs, and that is it. There are other communities.
I put a word in for the rural area that, at times, it would be good if there was a police presence. I am not saying all the time, but residents would be happy to occasionally see our police on the beat. In fact, it might be nice to occasionally see them on horseback. You see them in Mitchell Street on horseback, and the horses would probably feel much more at home in the rural area. People might even feed them out there. A police presence required at times.
I recently had meetings with our local tavern about some of the issues which have occurred recently. People might have heard of a number of people who were hit by a car at the local tavern one night. There was an indication that the police would step up their presence in the area because on that night there had been some hooning and behavioural issues, at times, with people speeding and doing burn-outs in places like Whitewood Park Estate and Howard River Park. If there is a more consistent presence of police in the area, that behaviour is less likely to occur. Those people would not know when it would happen, only that they would be caught eventually as long as we have a police presence from time to time in the rural area.
Madam Speaker, I support the motion, from a point of view of PR for the police. Seeing police on the beat gives people confidence that they are working in the community and taking some of the issues seriously, and doing work that is for the benefit of the community, keeping the community safe. They should be supported for that, so I support the motion before us now.
Mr GUNNER (Fannie Bay): Madam Speaker, I join with the member for Casuarina in supporting the Police Beats operating in the Northern Territory. He moved this motion a while ago and I am glad we finally got to it in this Chamber. At the time, he was the shadow minister for Police, as he mentioned, and I have now taken that mantle.
The member for Casuarina, in speaking to the original motion, spoke a lot about what we value in what the police do. We thank the police for their work. We see, through the shopfronts and the beats, the police at their most visible. The police, often described as the thin blue line, do a lot of good community work, which is sometimes not appreciated by the community because they do not see it. Through those police shopfronts and the work they do on the Police Beats, there is a genuine appreciation and respect for the work done by police. I know the value of police has greatly improved in the Parap/Fannie Bay/Stuart Park areas since that Police Beat commenced in the Parap shopfront.
The shopfront is open during business hours and staffed by an auxiliary. I know quite a few constituents are traders who often go in there to talk to that auxiliary, and they appreciate that service being available. The president of the shop traders has said quite consistently it has made a real difference to the work they do as traders. Being the president, they have conversations with other traders in that area, such as Roger at Arafura Catering or Neville at Parap Fine Foods. Meta is the secretary of the traders now. You can talk to Fannie Bay traders such as Tim Copping, Manuel Kotis, or Anne Phelan at Stuart Park. The work the police do through that shopfront and beat is greatly appreciated.
The police of the beat usually work that area after hours and it greatly improves the intelligence they gather that feeds into things like the antisocial behaviour patrols. They often do targeted work and make really smart decisions about when and how and what they do. They have been working in the top end of Parap Road and we argue their workload has increased with the Banned Drinker Register being scrapped. That work has been quite clever with the use of horses.
The member for Nelson just spoke about horses. The mounted patrols are incredibly good at raising the visibility of the work police do and are very positive for police relationships.
However, the most effective thing is a police officer on foot. Many of the traders through the area have appreciated the fact that they have got to know their local police, which is part of the value of the Police Beat. Michael Deutrom is the police officer who has worked the longest on that beat. He is now doing other work. It is not fair that I have named one, but he was the one who was most often associated with the Police Beat, and he was fantastic. He was really positive and got to know many of the locals. That is one of the great benefits of having local police on the beat working with traders, improving intelligence and relationships, and making a real difference to the work of police and how they target that work.
The other thing they did quite well is integrate with the Territory Housing safety officers. The Territory Housing safety officers are doing a fantastic job and much of their work has been value added to by that beat. I was at Kurringal the other day. The police are doing much of their training at Kurringal. They arrive in a bus and 30 officers from the college practice some of their work. They have had a very positive relationship with the Territory Housing safety officers. I thank police for the work they are doing in gathering intelligence, improving local relationships, and making a difference. We all know of the hard work of police, who often do not get the full respect they deserve. Through the work they do on Police Beats and by having visible police shopfronts, they promote themselves positively.
Part of the theory behind having the Police Beat is that police should be where the people are: at the Parap shops, the Casuarina shopping centre, and the Alice Springs mall, where, unfortunately, the Police Beat was cancelled. They are at the spots where the people are, therefore, the amount of interaction between the police and the public is increased, and that can only be a good thing.
We support the Police Beats; that is why we introduced them. We hope the new government will continue that support. We are a bit worried by the precedent of the one in Alice Springs, but the police shopfront is still there in Parap. Speaking as a local member, we appreciate the work the police are doing to get on top of those issues locals have and for that positive relationship.
It is, in some respects, harking back to old-school policing. In some ways I do not want to say that because the police went away from that. However, that is what Police Beats are about; you have a relationship that develops with your local police officer and auxiliary. From my conversations with the President of the Parap Shopping Village Traders and other traders at the Parap shops, Fannie Bay shops and Stuart Park, I know they really appreciate the work those police are doing.
Madam Speaker, we support the Police Beats. I am glad my colleague, the member for Casuarina, brought this motion to the House so we could put on the public record the appreciation we have for the work they do and, in this instance, particularly that prism of the police shopfront and the Police Beat. I am sure I can say, on behalf of all members, thank you for the work you do.
Mr GILES (Police, Fire and Emergency Services): Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Casuarina for highlighting a very important issue: law and order. Of course, he would not know a whole lot about law and order, being a member of the Labor Party.
I find it strange that you zero in on Police Beats rather than focus on law and order as a general discussion point, and reflect back on the eleven-and-a-half long dark years of the previous Labor government when all we saw was an escalation in crime to a point where there were so many social issues that, in some areas, it was getting out of control.
We saw an escalation in our prison numbers to a point where they are bursting at the seams. We are a national embarrassment for our incarceration numbers. That is something we have inherited, once again, from Labor which we are continuing to try to fix …
Mr Westra van Holthe: Another fine mess they go us into.
Mr GILES: Another fine mess that Labor gave us, like a hot potato. I know the work of this government, particularly through the guidance and leadership of the minister for Corrections and Attorney-General, Mr Elferink, which he has been providing in working out ways, identifying measures, and putting in place practices that will see a reduction in prison numbers, but more importantly, a reduction in recidivism. His and our commitment, as a government, to Pillars of Justice is reflecting well upon the way in which we want to see a reform in not only the corrections process but also the effects of law and order in our community. The more we can keep people out of gaol, not only is it cheaper for government to operate corrections systems but it provides better social equity to people within our community.
I found it strange that the member for Casuarina would zero in on Police Beats. They are a relatively small part of a very large and complex suite of crime prevention programs and strategies. In fact, member for Casuarina, the framing of your question suggests you believe Police Beats might be under threat, presumably because you have spoken to police when in government, and they told you many do not work as well as they could. If the opposite were true and Police Beats were an inexpensive and effective crime fighting tool, why would you think they would be scrapped?
The Labor opposition, again, is being too cute by half. They know what I know, and they know what police tell me: that Police Beats do not work particularly well when underfunded and under-resourced. Police Beats are expensive, with the beat in Casuarina alone drawing up to 16 police officers from the Casuarina roster. That is not to say people in the Police Beat are not doing a good job and do not provide peace and harmony for many of the shoppers within the Casuarina shopping centre. However, they tie up resources and staff and do very little to deter criminals.
The member for Fannie Bay mumbled things about police in the local shopping centre. The best way I see of policing is the community-based policing strategy to be on the beat rather than behind a desk in a small shopfront ...
Mr Vatskalis interjecting.
Mr GILES: They are not under threat, member for Casuarina. The issue with small shopfronts is they provide a greater deal of confidence to the broader community, but they tie up vast resources in rental of office space, putting in telecommunications lines, the staff and auxiliaries who work there, and a range of other administrative costs. When you think about the benefits of being able to apply those resources to additional police who can be walking or driving around the streets, talking to the general public, and putting in place community-based policing initiatives, it works much better.
In Alice Springs, since we have put in an additional 20 police as part of a 120 police commitment, the town is upbeat. It is upbeat because we provide a great deal of confidence in an economic sense, and the town is feeling upbeat in that way. However, by the police being present on the streets more, it is providing a great level of confidence and policing. It is a more secure environment by half and is just fantastic.
In this job I am in Darwin or other parts of the Territory on a frequent basis; I am not home in my electorate as much as I would like. It is interesting when I go back home after a couple of weeks here or there that I can see the change in the uplift of the community, the economic spirit, and the social cohesiveness. To see police driving around the street on a regular basis is fantastic. I thanked the Assistant Commissioner in Alice Springs recently for the hard work and tenacious efforts under his leadership, but also the local police force because people are feeling more confident and safer within the community.
Police are telling me, when I talk to them on the ground, is Police Beats are a tool that provides a small degree of confidence, but it takes them away from their policing efforts. There are two exceptions to that component, one in Katherine and one in Nightcliff. I am advised by police on the ground that is where it is supported, and there is strong consideration given to those Police Beats staying in their entirety because of the distance from a police station and the ability to be a base for police to carry out their operations from those areas.
The Commissioner of the Northern Territory Police Force has his views on Police Beats and will continue to make recommendations to government on their continuance or otherwise. The Northern Territory Police Association supports the scrapping of all Police Beats with the exception of Katherine. I am not verballing anybody, but I know police and the Police Association want to see police policing, not sitting behind desks. Nobody wants to see people sitting behind desks, least of all police.
The current situation is there are five Police Beat offices in the Darwin metropolitan region: Casuarina Shopping Square, Parap shops, Palmerston Shopping Centre, Nightcliff Police Station and the mobile northern suburbs Police Beat. There are a further two Police Beats in the regional areas of Katherine Shopping Centre and Todd Mall, Alice Springs.
The member for Fannie Bay was accurate when he said the one in Alice Springs is closing. It is in my electorate. I always thought a bad site for a Police Beat was 100 m from a police station. You had to think you would have people tied up with resources in that office who could not get outside. Since we have closed that, what you see is more police riding around on pushbikes, walking around the street, the horses being available, and police at bottle shops to stop the illegal purchases of grog by people who might be intoxicated or are taking grog to a prescribed area. It is better for people to be able to see the police in the community, and it is providing a positive effect.
Ron Thynne from the Red Ochre Grill in the mall frequently saw the elements of crime over many long, dark, hard years of Labor. He is a person who is not afraid to voice his opinion and concern, and has requested that law and order improves. I had the opportunity of catching up with Ron in Alice Springs last week when he thanked the police for their efforts. I thought he was calling us to a meeting to say something was wrong, but he thanked police for their efforts and advised them of the improved response time from the call centre and local police who are cruising around on pushbikes and walking through the mall, providing a safer environment for people who stay at his hotel and people who are going there for breakfast or dinner. He said it is a much safer environment. It is good to see those outcomes being achieved, particularly under the guidance of a Country Liberals government which is firm on law and order.
I spoke earlier today about some of our good outcomes in reductions in alcohol-fuelled antisocial behaviour and the significant reductions in the protective custody elements, up to 55% lower than they were this time last year. It is an amazing change. You can see the changes we made with the Banned Drinker Register and the mandatory rehabilitation component, our drive to get alcohol management plans up, and our continued focus on addressing demand and supply side issues are having a causal effect.
I sit in on a few meetings with the Mayor of Darwin, Katrina Fong Lim. We talk about a range of things from a capital city committee point of view. We had a chat a couple of weeks ago and were talking about how low the numbers are of people who are committing alcohol-fuelled antisocial behaviour on our streets and our parks in the Darwin City Council area. She asked me, ‘Where have all the drunks gone?’ I said, ‘This is a part of the change of policy. If you have your three strikes now in protective custody, you will be going to an assessment process with a view to mandatory alcohol rehabilitation.’
People are changing their behaviour and that is what we want to see. We want people to have the opportunity for rehabilitation. It would be preferable if people went to voluntary rehabilitation, but some people are so addicted to alcohol that mandatory rehabilitation is a mechanism we are using to try to assist them get off that chronic life cycle of alcohol abuse.
When you combine the hard-working efforts of local police, the policy changes and initiatives, and the program elements we are putting in place with our focus on alcohol supply measures, people are starting to get the message and improve their behaviour in our streets. It is making for a more conducive society.
When you put that into the perspective of the Northern Territory being the jurisdiction with the best prospect of economic growth with the tourists coming back thanks to the good guidance of the Tourism minister, Mr Conlan, the member for Greatorex, these elements are all starting to come together and form part of the framework of the Framing The Future document we launched yesterday. It is about the economic drivers, the social cohesiveness and the cultural elements in the environmental landscaping which we operate in. These things are all part of the bigger picture and are all starting to come together.
Sure, there will be hiccups here or there along the way, but as long as we are on an upward slope, they are positive signs for government and the Northern Territory. People all over the place are saying how good things are.
I mentioned in Question Time yesterday my unscripted concerns about what is happening in Tennant Creek at the moment. I am truly concerned about it. Some of the law and order and criminal elements and the alcohol consumption in Tennant Creek is quite concerning. You will see on Friday that the crime stats in Tennant Creek are very bad, particularly for assaults. I should preface that by talking about assaults for a little, then get back to Tennant Creek.
On Friday, one of the reasons you will see that assaults are a lot higher is because many assaults are domestic violence-related assaults by Aboriginal men on Aboriginal women. That is not to generalise and cast aspersions on any race or otherwise, but that is where many of those domestic violence assaults were occurring. Speaking in very rough numbers, around 25% of people in those incidents were being charged with domestic violence and having follow-up accounts. The 25% charging rate was reflective in the assault figures.
We now have new models in place, and new techniques in the way we are doing things. We have identified that 75% of people not being charged for domestic violence is a significant concern. The police are charging more people now. Many more referrals to community organisations are put in place along with intervention measures to help those people in domestic violence situations. That is having a significant effect on domestic violence and the assault charges in the crime figures.
In Tennant Creek, it is much broader than just a changing reporting regime or more charges being laid on domestic violence situations; there is actually much more crime. I am advised a significant component of that comes back to a change in the AFL program in Tennant Creek over a 17-week period. I am unsure, member for Barkly, if you are versed on these issues. I am advised the AFL put on a new development officer who did a lot of work in supporting AFL development and bringing people into Tennant Creek from the region on weekends to participate in AFL. That meant there were many people in town over the weekends and, until this issue was identified and stopped, for that 17-week period there were many people who were living rough, and getting into trouble with grog and other criminal elements in town, which had a devastating effect for that short period of time.
Broader than that are some of the issues around the economic growth opportunities in Tennant Creek. I said yesterday it is going to take a long time to fix some of those things. You cannot have a strong society if you do not have a strong economic growth pattern. When the economic drivers in the community are not there, apart from some normal social and smaller elements, if you do not have the key economic drivers, you just cannot have that strength in the society. That is what we are seeing in Tennant Creek. A month or two ago, I committed to putting a Chief Minister’s Office there so we can have a senior bureaucrat - the job is being advertised at the moment; it may have closed - who can start to identify, collectively across agencies, what the issues are, and start putting in place some program responses working with stakeholders, individuals, and constituents to identify how best to improve the situation and work forward from there.
On a broader scale, I work across many areas of economic opportunity, both in my role as Chief Minister but also in my portfolios of Economic Development, Trade, Asian Relations, and so forth. From the heart, I have a general passion for doing things across the Territory. I am working to identify what some of those economic opportunities are and trying to work out how we can bring some of those to fruition. It is too early to talk about any of those opportunities because they are a very long way away. We are putting in a great deal of hard work to see how we can bring some of those things forward as quickly as we can. I would love to see an opportunity of a major project being able to operate in the Tennant Creek and Barkly region which would see us able to give greater facilitation to advancing the prospects at a speedy rate.
We were looking at what reintroducing open speed limits could mean for the economic opportunity for Tennant Creek and the Barkly region. We know when they were in force before, companies such as Ford used to spend millions of dollars staying in Tennant Creek, hiring the services of security guards, spending money on food and accommodation and all the downstream opportunities that came from that investment. That stopped in 2006 when the speed limits were changed. If there is an opportunity of that coming back, that can present an opportunity for Tennant Creek. We will wait and see if those speed limits can be changed. That is a potential opportunity; however, there are many challenges around that.
We have to ensure we get the economics right, which will see a reduction in crime, not only with our 20 additional police in Alice Springs as part of the 120 additional police we committed to, but also the economic drivers in Alice Springs. They are all working together cohesively.
Back to the motion that is on the table. There is no general direction either way about Police Beats. We have closed the one in Alice Springs. There has been no discussion about any of the other Police Beats to date, and I do not foresee their being any discussion into the future. However, if we see the Police Beats are not producing the outcomes that community-based policing can provide, and I have a recommendation from the Police Commissioner that we do alternate models, so be it, I will take advice from the experts. We want to ensure the police are on the beat. The information I have is the Nightcliff station and Katherine Police Beat are performing at much higher levels than the other Police Beats. I know there are great people working those other offices, but we need to ensure we have the resources on the ground doing the policing.
I say thank you very much to the member for Casuarina for bringing this motion on. It is always a great to have an opportunity to talk about police, and law and order in particular, because the only party which really has a focus on working with the police in collegial fashion and addressing law and order issues for all Territorians is the Country Liberals.
We have been in government for 12 months and have issued the Framing the Future document. We have seen some very positive results in the reduction of crime and antisocial behaviour, with massive results in the reduction in commercial and property crime because people were breaking into premises to get grog. When we start getting a handle on some of the domestic violence issues you will see assault rates come down significantly as well.
It will take us quite a few months to start addressing that, and we want to ensure we address that as quickly as we can.
On a final note, the rate of women being beaten in the Northern Territory is an absolute disgrace. We should all be ashamed of what is happening and what has happened for years. It will take us some time, from a statistical point of view, to get on top of this. We do not want to see any woman, or any man, in that position; the numbers are offensive and outrageous. Police are doing their best to address the issues. This is something we have inherited; but we are not talking about it in a political sense. It is completely offensive and outrageous, and we will continue to do what we can to address the issues.
One of the areas I will be focusing on is strengthening Indigenous men. It is a passion I have had for a long time. I have always thought Indigenous men across Australia - but in the Northern Territory - I speak generally not of all men, but Indigenous men - need a greater supportive role in place, particularly those on the fringes who often succumb to elements of society where they form part of the welfare system, or alcohol abuse or criminal areas. We have to put greater emphasis on these people and I will be doing more work on this into the future. It is something I will take on passionately, and I will try to take on a personal ambassador role to address some of these issues. We need to get skin in the game to start to address some of these things.
Dealing with it from a political point of view and without that emotive compassion, you start to see things statistically and get to the heart of the real problems. It is something I will take on passionately.
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Casuarina for bringing this statement to the House which gave me an opportunity to talk about a whole lot more.
Mr VOWLES (Johnston): Madam Speaker, I support the member for Casuarina’s motion supporting Police Beats operating successfully in large shopping centres in the Northern Territory, and calling upon the government to continue funding existing Police Beats and expand Police Beats in other shopping centres in Darwin and urban centres throughout the Northern Territory.
I thank the Chief Minister for contributing to the Police Beats debate. I am not sure if I heard him say the Nightcliff Police Beat is performing well. My last information is that the Police Beat side of things is not happening for a while. That is a huge concern, not only for the member for Nightcliff and her constituents ...
Ms Fyles: It was moved after the election.
Mr VOWLES: It was moved after the election I have been told. It is an issue for the member for Nightcliff, who I have no doubt will speak at length on this issue as the local member working hard with constituents who have come to her complaining about that. We all remember in April 2013 there was an assault on a business owner. She says antisocial behaviour and public drunkenness is the worst it has been in 10 years, even longer. Since the Police Beat closed, it has returned. Up to five times a day the police were going through Nightcliff shopping centre - I am talking about the Rite Price area - and consumers and businesses felt safe. Now the Police Beat has gone, we are seeing a huge increase in public drunkenness and antisocial behaviour which people have to deal with. I am a frequent visitor to that area and can confirm that and see it most days. It is quite close to my electorate of Johnston. This is a sign that Police Beats work.
During the 2012 election campaign, when I was doorknocking residents of Johnston and listening to their concerns, the mention of a Police Beat was warmly received. It encouraged me to approach the then Chief Minister, Paul Henderson, to ask for an election commitment of a Police Beat in the Rapid Creek shops. He subsequently released, as an election commitment for the people of Johnson, that if we were elected we would put a Police Beat in the Rapid Creek Business Village.
History shows we kept the seat but lost government. People are still asking me about a Police Beat. The Chief Minister is right in saying community people feel safe with a Police Beat. That is correct and I have no issues with that. However, in my area of Johnston - which is what I will talk about - especially Rapid Creek Business Village, where the Rapid Creek markets are, there is antisocial behaviour on a daily basis around that area. Police have been called there many times. There have been thefts; people are stealing scooters from the front of the shops. People have been beaten up, cars are broken into, and drunks walk into businesses, many times for their own safety. It is never a great look and is something we need to address.
There are other hot spot areas in my electorate. At the new Diamond Village or the old Millner shops, there is a constant visitation of people influenced by alcohol. They are sleeping there overnight, defecating, and are running into businesses after being beaten. There is a serious issue there. Business owners are coming to me as the local member.
The other area is Jingili Water Gardens, a real hot spot for people who buy grog, go into the mangroves to drink, then hang around and sleep around the barbecue areas, day and night. They are annoying families having parties there. It is ridiculous sometimes at Jingili Water Gardens. I am constantly reminded by constituents of the antisocial behaviour in that area.
I was doorknocking the other week in the Moil area, and the drunks are back in the street and in the parks which were cleaned up. The government can say there are no more drunks, as they have been taken off the streets. I can only speak for my area, but I am sure the rest of my colleagues will speak of their areas. If you are out doorknocking, you are listening to constituents say drunks are back in our parks. Their normal routine is going from the bottle-o to somewhere else, but they are back in the parks drinking. You cannot hide that; it is there.
Kids should be playing there. We are back to having beer bottles and grog around, and drunks hanging around the playgrounds. This is not good enough. We were cleaning it up; we did clean it up. It is something this government has to address.
Coconut Grove separates my electorate from the member for Nightcliff’s electorate. One side of the road is hers and one side is mine. There is much public housing in our area, especially my area, and a great deal of antisocial behaviour due to alcohol. Because the member for Nightcliff’s office is closer than mine, many constituents go to her. We work collaboratively to address those issues.
One thing I am really proud of is the public safety officers. That initiative has worked and continues to work. On a weekly basis, people come to my office and tell me they are very happy with that service, and we should be proud it is something the former Labor government introduced.
To address these issues, we are constantly on the phone; we have reported to police many times. I take this opportunity to commend the police, especially those from the Casuarina Police Station who have met with me regularly when there were issues, and a number of complaints and people calling the police. They contact me or I contact them, and we arrange to meet. Meeting with the Station Commander to discuss the issues and hot spot areas in the Johnston electorate, what has been reported, and what needs to be done, is proactive policing. Hats off to the police. One person I met took the opportunity, when he met me at the Rapid Creek shops, to go to each business in that village to meet them and say, ‘G’day, how are you going? These are our numbers, make sure you ring us.’ It is very proactive policing.
I am very happy because one of these shop owners lost his scooter from out the front in the middle of the day and, a week later, police brought it back. He is pretty happy with that.
Let us go back to this drunks issue. You promised to remove drunks immediately from the streets; this is not happening. We need to address this - you guys have to address this - because it is affecting every electorate in the Northern Territory. As I said before, you can talk all you want about how you are removing drunks from the street, but residents are telling us you can drive anywhere - on The Esplanade the other day there were a few people drinking at 8 am. That is significant and something you cannot hide.
I remember the member for Blain early this year, or maybe late last year or even before then, saying, ‘We will talk about our drunks policy’, and there were people out the front here having a beer and getting on the juice. We had something that worked; it was call the BDR. Now it is your turn; you are trying something. You need to stop the drunks from drinking in the park at 8 am on The Esplanade. It is disgrace.
Madam Speaker, I commend the motion to the House. Police Beats are a great initiative. They work, and bring safety and police to the community, which is always a positive thing. The more community policing we have, the better it is.
Mr WESTRA van HOLTHE (Primary Industry and Fisheries): Madam Speaker, it is interesting to listen to the contributions of the members opposite and of the Chief Minister. What I glean from this motion and the contributions of those opposite is they seem to take a very simplistic view around a concept called Police Beats.
The Chief Minister, to his credit, articulated a very strong argument, not necessarily to counter the suggestion that Police Beats are required, but that they should form a part of a suite of arrangements that are effective and based on community policing. In that context, I will continue to make a contribution this afternoon.
As the local member for Katherine, and in the course of my previous life as a police officer, law and order in general is a subject that is near and dear to me. The success of establishing Police Beats within the community is open for debate. In general, I acknowledge and agree with the Chief Minister that Police Beats tie up resources, are largely expensive to run and, in most cases, have been ineffective in reducing crime and antisocial behaviour.
In my experience - and this goes, much in the same vein as the Chief Minister, to the nub of this - a Police Beat in and of itself does not reduce crime and antisocial behaviour. What does work - and the Chief Minister alluded to this - is high visibility: proactive patrols of uniformed police officers. That is the type of policing that works, even though it sounds a little old-fashioned. The member for Fannie Bay also suggested this. At least the member for Fannie Bay is thinking more broadly than just around some simplistic concept of a Police Beat and the efficacy of that as a means to deal with the problems we have with crime and antisocial behaviour.
In pursuing the argument, in a very practical sense, what is a Police Beat? That is the question that needs to be asked. It is a building or an office space that acts as a shopfront. The shopfront would, arguably, be staffed by an auxiliary for a period of eight hours or whatever was determined by the roster. The question then needs to be asked: how would one auxiliary located behind a desk - and we all respect our auxiliaries in the police force - be able to reduce crime and antisocial behaviour? I pose that it would be very difficult.
Add to the mix a couple of sworn police officers. These would be officers with all the powers they require to do their job using the Police Beat as a place to rest, do their paperwork, or work on the computer. That changes the paradigm. What else would those police officers be doing? They would not be sitting behind a desk for eight hours of a shift. I hope they would be doing the patrols I described a moment ago: the high visibility, proactive patrols of the streets or the shopping centre, or wherever was required. I repeat, it is not the Police Beat that becomes a measure to deal with crime and antisocial behaviour, it is the application of resources that makes the difference.
One could argue that the same application of resources and police officers doing those great patrols I described could be done from a police station rather than a Police Beat. Police Beats or no Police Beats, the success of whatever the police engage in comes down to the effective and efficient application of their resources in a way that also uses intelligence-led principles. Resourcing is the key, not the Police Beat.
Which brings me to where I need to be, and the Chief Minister mentioned this in his contribution to this motion this afternoon. When the previous Labor administration introduced Police Beats, they were underfunded and under-resourced and, like so many of their initiatives, rushed through before the proper planning was conducted. The Police Beats established in Nightcliff, Palmerston and Casuarina where clearly put in place for one reason: to win votes. They simply wanted to buy community support by putting a fluffy piece of policy out there that said, ‘We are going to have Police Beats’.
However, when it came down to the establishment of a Police Beat in Katherine, I cannot help but accuse the opposition of blatant hypocrisy. It makes me wonder why the member for Casuarina would bring a motion like this to the House and lead with his chin in the way he has today, because I am going to talk about the Katherine Police Beat and how that came into being.
The previous Labor government was not interested in listening to or helping the Katherine community reduce antisocial behaviour and crime from occurring in our town. Obviously the previous government recognised that Katherine residents cannot be bought with an ill-thought-out, rushed-out process that lacked proper planning and resourcing. The previous government ignored Katherine until the local business owners banded together and demanded action. I am glad there are a couple of new members who are able to listen to this debate tonight because this will give you some insight into exactly what happened.
The Katherine Police Beat was established because the Katherine business community got sick of waiting for the previous government to recognise there was a large antisocial problem in the township. The local shopping centre and the CBD main street businesses demanded a greater police presence. The Katherine Police Beat was established because members of the Katherine business community, in conjunction with the local police in Katherine - not any initiative of government - made it happen. It was certainly not because of any actions undertaken by the then Police minister or the previous government.
The Katherine Police Beat office was established because the Katherine business community got sick of waiting for the previous government to do something meaningful about tackling crime and antisocial behaviour and making their community a safe and enjoyable place to shop and conduct business. It was the Katherine business community which negotiated a peppercorn rent with the owners of the major shopping centre in order to establish the police shopfront in the heart of the shopping district. The Katherine business community liaised with the local police to determine exactly what was needed and where best this shopfront could be located.
The previous government had no choice in the end but to come to the party and accept that the Katherine community was not going to be ignored on the issue of establishing a Police Beat that would tackle crime and antisocial behaviour. Quite frankly, the former Labor government was embarrassed and humiliated into supporting the Katherine Police Beat, but not before all the work that needed to be done had virtually been done.
The list of businesses that got behind this project is huge and an indication of the sheer determination of the community to get a police presence located in the heart of the CBD, and to be treated equally under the former government’s policy of establishing these Police Beats. Of course, we all know that Labor never much cared for Katherine, never has, never will.
It is interesting to see how many businesses worked to establish the Katherine Police Beat. These businesses I am about to mention contributed either in the form of cash, goods or in-kind support to the establishment of the Katherine Police Beat. They include: the Chamber of Commerce; Betta Electrical; Centro; Woolworths; the Katherine Town Council; Norplumb; Travel North; the Stuart Hotel; the Katherine Art Gallery; Chris the Cabinet Maker; Custom Cabinets Katherine; Mitre 10; Hohn’s Sheet Metaland; Steven Dobson Pty Ltd; The Katherine Times; Katherine Window Tint; TIO; Cerbis; the Five Star Supermarket; CSR Ltd; Nordraft; NT Technology; Territory Development Consultants; Lex Ford, Roy Saunders; Katherine Lock and Key; Kelly’s Spraying; Airborne Solutions; Whitehouse Furnishers; Bonash Maintenance Services; Office of the Chief Minister Katherine - I am not sure how they contributed - Lawrence Flannery Painting and Design; Craig McPherson; Paint Spot; Tradelink; and Katherine Office Supplies.
All of those businesses, as I said earlier, contributed either in cash, goods, labour, or in-kind support to establish the Katherine Police Beat which is located at Shop 2 in the Katherine Central Shopping Centre. It is open for business from 9 am to 5 pm week days and 9 am to 1 pm on Saturday. Importantly though, police also liaised with the local businesses and, lo and behold, do what I suggested previously: conduct foot, bicycle, and licensed premises patrols.
The Police Beat established in the Katherine Shopping Centre is just one of two Police Beats operating outside the Darwin/Palmerston areas. The other was in the Todd Mall in Alice Springs. It is with interest I note the Commissioner of Police recently closed the Alice Springs Todd Mall Police Beat and allocated those policing resources to other areas of demand. As the Chief Minister mentioned in his contribution this afternoon, having a Police Beat 100 m or so from the main police station in town seems a little nonsensical.
However, every indication from the Northern Territory Police is the Police Beat in Katherine is working. It is effective in reducing crime and antisocial behaviour due, in part, to its unique location at the heart of town but, more importantly, because of the application of policing resources to ensure it is effective. We can thank the local business community for making this happen. In fact, I understand that while the Northern Territory Police Association wants to scrap Police Beats the exception, as mentioned by the Chief Minister, is the Katherine Police Beat because it is working so well.
I commend the Katherine business community and the Katherine police for their efforts to tackle crime and antisocial behaviour and make Katherine a better place to visit, shop, and do business.
However, it seems a little hypocritical and disingenuous of the member for Casuarina to stand before this parliament and talk about the importance of Police Beats when his government ignored the requirements of Katherine when it came to implementing their policy of Police Beats.
The Police Beat the former government ignored, the one it decided not to pursue until it was humiliated into supporting it, is the one that is working the best. Go figure! Does that not leave open a question about the judgment of the former government when it came to setting up Police Beats and implementing their policy? I probably safely covered that before when I said establishment of these Police Beats was an attempt to buy votes in the community.
Madam Speaker, I reiterate that Police Beats, if they are located well, resourced properly and are part of a community policing strategy that is effective and well-resourced, can work. No one on this side is abjectly opposed to Police Beats. However, the Police Beat is not the cure for all the ills of crime and antisocial behaviour in the Northern Territory which the member for Casuarina would have us believe.
Ms FYLES (Nightcliff): Madam Speaker, I support this motion and call on the government to expand Police Beats in locations across the Territory. In fact, the Chief Minister, only days before last year’s election, called for placing a Police Beat in his electorate in Alice Springs. In media reports at the time, he said a Police Beat would:
We have just heard from the member for Katherine all the reasons why Police Beats should not be placed anywhere except Katherine, yet the Chief Minister called for one last year before the election.
Chief Minister, it is for these reasons the residents of Nightcliff want you to deliver on the promised 24/7 police station for our community. I was extremely disappointed, as were residents of the Nightcliff area, to see no funding in the recent budget for the promised Nightcliff police station, an election commitment this government took to last year’s election. The contract the CLP signed during last year’s election campaign with the Nightcliff community has been torn up. This was a commitment and promise to deliver a 24/7 police station to an area that is already growing in population and, with more infill planned under your government’s policies, that growth sure to continue. My colleague, the member for Johnston, spoke about the unique area in Nightcliff, Rapid Creek and Coconut Grove. We have a number of different residential properties. It is an interesting, diverse area and it needs to be supported with a 24/7 police station.
As a community, we are already dealing with increased antisocial behaviour since the BDR was scrapped by your government. Your government has allowed 2500 people to start drinking again, and has allowed children to be the victims of alcohol by letting these people drink again. The levels of antisocial behaviour in our community are unacceptable.
The Chief Minister comes into parliament and claims that alcohol-related antisocial behaviour across the Territory is down. It is unbelievable. Chief Minister, you may want to read those statistics and reflect on that, but in the Nightcliff area, I can tell you that is not the case. I urge you to visit Nightcliff. No one believes you when you say antisocial behaviour has declined; it is worse than ever.
I am aware of police being called regularly to deal with antisocial behaviour. Shopkeepers are being assaulted. Earlier this year, a shopkeeper only a few doors down from the Nightcliff electorate officer was assaulted. It was reported in the NT News. The shopkeeper reported that when the local Police Beat was in place, antisocial behaviour improved:
They are the words of the local shopkeeper in Nightcliff. She went on to say:
She went on to call for the local Police Beat to be reinstated:
referring to the local Police Beat.
Active local policing worked. That is what the residents of Nightcliff and Rapid Creek want; that is what they tell me. Customised Police Beats are ensuring the local communities’ needs are met for their area.
In Queensland, as I understand, they were launched in 1993 after the success of two pilot programs. Tonight we have listened to the member for Katherine say the only Police Beat that works is the one in Katherine. We want what his community has. Currently, as I understand in Queensland there are 46 neighbourhood Police Beats operating with the aim to reduce crime rates and the number of calls for service, identify and target local problem areas, reduce the fear of crime, and provide a place where local community members can talk with police. That is active local policing, and that is what the residents of my electorate are calling for. Currently, they do not feel safe visiting their local shops or playgrounds. They are dealing with incidents of antisocial behaviour.
Your government promised to clean up the streets immediately, yet the problem has never been worse. The most irritating thing for most people is we all know antisocial behaviour has many elements - alcohol and many different issues. It was your promise to clean up the streets immediately, except it has gone the other way; it has become worse. You have allowed 2500 people to go back to drinking.
The budget earlier this year failed to support police and completely failed to deal with antisocial behaviour. The member for Katherine, as a former police officer, raised resourcing, which brings me to the NT Police Association’s media release issued only a few weeks ago, appalled that Chief Minister Giles failed to deliver on his government’s commitments to recruit 120 new police officers:
You have let police down. You have let your own officers down. They went on to say:
The NT Police Association does not trust you and neither does the community. You need to resource the police and put Police Beats across the Northern Territory, and you need a 24/7 police station in Nightcliff as you promised.
The electorate of Nightcliff has a large amount of open space, beautiful parks and reserves stretching along the foreshore from the coastal reserve near Rapid Creek to Nightcliff and on to Coconut Grove. These areas are not only enjoyed by local residents but large numbers of visitors. They attract not only well-meaning visitors who enjoy the space and behave responsibly but, for many years, have also been a place for people to gather and drink to the point of causing harm to themselves and others, causing disturbances into the night. Residents put up with screaming, yelling, talking. It is a problem; they call the police but these people are not breaking any law. It is a council issue of people camping illegally, and it is hard work to get on top of it.
That is what my electorate is dealing with, and it is worse since the BDR was scrapped and people can easily access alcohol. This is the point I keep making, because I do not think the Chief Minister and the government get it.
In the election campaign last year, you promised you would immediately remove the problem drunks from the streets, yet it has never been worse. As I have stated many times in this House, my office has had to call the police after witnessing antisocial behaviour fuelled by alcohol. It is almost like clockwork. We turn up at the office in the morning, people start hanging around and loitering, waiting to get alcohol.
Residents have contacted my office to express their frustration with this issue, and how bad the problem is. I have just spoken about being kept awake at all hours by the antisocial behaviour. There are break-ins to their homes, and people are using residents’ front gardens and parks as toilet facilities. People have had enough. People are sleeping on the front verandah of the local childcare centre. The problem is fuelled by alcohol and the lack of a Police Beat and a police station in Nightcliff.
After 10 months of waiting, we finally got to see your government’s alcohol policy, which was half-baked and rushed through in the middle of the night. Everyone asked you to halt, including the experts. But, no, you knew better. The legislation had 43 committee stage amendments. If there was a wake-up call that would be it. No, you rushed it through; it is destined to fail.
After six weeks, the legislation had no real impact on the antisocial behaviour issue. In the first six weeks of the BDR, 858 people were not able to get takeaway alcohol. Those 858 people were not drinking in our parks and community, versus nine people at the same point who have been taken into mandatory rehabilitation under your legislation.
It does not address the crucial supply issue, which brings me back to the Police Association and one of the key points in their recent bulletin. As the Alice Springs People’s Alcohol Action Coalition has publicly stated:
The Police Association was asking you to take time to wait for the evidence to see what the BDR did, but, no, it was dismembered by the government purely for political reasons, not addressing the crucial issue of supply. That is the problem causing so much antisocial behaviour in the Nightcliff area.
The Parap Police Beat is a great community initiative for engagement, allowing the public access to police services. It is highly visible, and the police can have a presence in the heart of Parap village to help them tackle policing issues and crime in the Parap/Fannie Bay area.
It is what the community of Nightcliff needs and welcomes. I cannot get across to you how much frustration residents in my local area are experiencing with the antisocial behaviour on a daily issue. They copy me into e-mails and call my office; they are distressed at the increase of it, all as a result of the government reducing the Police Beat and removing the Banned Drinker Register.
I come back to the point of the election campaign last year. Your party campaigned on the platform that the Nightcliff police station would be open 24/7. This has not happened. All evidence shows the exact opposite has taken place with the police patrols from the station being removed. That is a grey area I do not seem to be able to get a straight answer on. I can tell you there is not an active police presence as if we had a 24/7 police station. Police are frustrated, they are travelling from Casuarina to do patrols trying to do their best, but the tools they need to support them are not there.
You may say that Nightcliff is better served as a column on the Casuarina police station roster, but I am told that is not working. They are trying their hardest. The mounted police come out but they can only do so much. The issues go up the list. We have a police presence that goes back down, then comes back up; it is a cycle. We need a 24/7 police station in our community.
The member for Karama wanted to contribute to this motion and would like to remind the government there needs to be a Police Beat at Karama Shopping Centre, as I am sure there needs to be at many other locations across the Territory. These are active, local community policing resources, and she is campaigning on delivering a Police Beat in the 2016 election to remind people the CLP has failed to deliver.
There was nothing in the budget for the 24/7 police station in Nightcliff. It was a commitment in all your election materials in the campaign last year. The previous Chief Minister, Terry Mills, said he would honour that commitment to the people of Nightcliff and Rapid Creek, yet it is not in the budget this year from the Giles government. Interestingly enough, at the same time the CLP broke its promise to spend money to upgrade the Nightcliff police station to make it 24/7; it made the Alice Springs Police Station 24/7. It should not be one part of the Territory misses out because another part gets it; it is illogical. If the CLP applied the same rules for Nightcliff, the police station would be there. This government is making personal funding decisions and is happy to break promises.
The Police Association has urged you to rethink your policing numbers and some of your alcohol policies, yet you stand your ground that you are right and because the BDR was not your policy, it was wrong. The Chief Minister tells us all these statistics - mind you, he will not table his documents - point to the level of antisocial behaviour reducing. He is living in a bubble.
Only yesterday morning, just before parliament started, on The Esplanade there was antisocial behaviour with people yelling, screaming and drinking at 8 am. Along the Nightcliff foreshore on whatever evening I go to the playground with the children there are always issues. Sadly, we turn a blind eye to it, but it is not acceptable.
I call on the government, and the Chief Minister, to deliver on their commitment of a 24/7 police station. I commend this motion to this House that we support the current operating Police Beats, and call on the government to continue to expand the Police Beats in other shopping centres in Darwin and urban centres across the Territory.
The member for Katherine spoke of how wonderful the Katherine Police Beat was for a good 15 minutes. That is fantastic to hear. I was there only a few weeks ago and saw it. It puts policing into people’s communities; that is the idea. It is not inconvenient because some officers are tied up opening a shop; it is more than that. The one at Casuarina shopping centre is ensuring our police officers are interacting in our community. That is what we want from a 24/7 police station in the Nightcliff area. It is something I will speak of time and time again because that is what the residents of my area want me to do. The right thing is for your government to deliver that. I call on you to do that.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I commend this motion to the House.
Mr CONLAN (Central Australia): Mr Deputy Speaker, I ask the member for Nightcliff if it is only in the last 12 months she has felt the need for a 24-hour police station, or has this been a burning issue in Nightcliff for a long time? Is it only in the last 24 months that this growing urgent need for a 24-hour police station has suddenly come to your attention? I would like to know.
What were the views of the previous member for Nightcliff if this was such a burning issue? For the member for Nightcliff to suggest all the drunks and all the break-ins suddenly appeared in the last 12 months, and all the violence on the streets and the antisocial behaviour is a result of the diminished services provided by Police Beats, is ludicrous. It is pathetic. If it was not so pathetic, it would be hilarious.
The garbage peddled by that side! You had 10 years to get this right. All of a sudden, in the last 12 months, everything has turned south; everything has gone to dust. In the previous 10 years you had an exemplary record, did you? Can you hold your head high and suggest during the previous 10 years, the 10 years of hard Labor, you tackled law and order and in the last 12 months everything suddenly turned to dust? Is that what you are saying?
Let us look at some of the facts. Before we start, let us look at this. This is what the previous 10 years of your administration gave us. Here we go. Front page of the Centralian Advocate, ‘Terror on Stott Terrace’. This is after the Police Beats had been introduced. In 2009 the Police Beats were opened in Alice Springs. I remember the Chief Minister, the member for Braitling, and I attended the opening. February 2011, ‘Terror on Stott Terrace. Sign of the crimes’ was the headline. October 2010, ‘Slash, dash and bash. Unhappy ending after a night at the movies.’ You could not even go to the pictures in Alice Springs without being slashed, dashed and bashed. That is the front page of the Centralian Advocate.
Here we have, ‘Death in the Frontyard’. Goodness me: ‘Police believe a 49-year-old man killed on Wednesday night was hit with a large blunt object’. That is 10 December 2010, another front page of the Centralian Advocate.
More of the wonderful legacy left by 10 years of the former administration, ‘Forced to bed down at work’. This is a beauty:
The date is 14 January 2011. The Police Beat had been open for 18 months.
It is amazing that the drunks, the break-ins, and the violence have only just begun. The member for Nightcliff had her head in the clouds on the fifth floor for too long working for the member for Casuarina. She did not bother to open her eyes and see this had been going on for a decade.
It continues. Alice Springs 11 January 2010:
Holy cow, it is out of control, it is a shemozzle!
It continues. Do not worry, we have a litany of it, all under your administration.
‘Bill ‘em and sue ‘em. Govt must start paying for crime …’ In Alice Springs, a well-known local businessman was making a claim.
Here we go, another headline, ‘Enough. Is this the Alice Springs we want …’ No, it is not the Alice Springs we want and thank God we have an opportunity to turn it around:
This was the headline for 29 January 2010. The Police Beat the member for Nightcliff advocates so strongly had already been in force for about three or four months, perhaps a bit longer; it might have been since August or September 2009.
This is Alice Springs, Friday, 5 February 2010:
This is ridiculous. The Alice Springs Police Beat had already been in force for about six months.
Alice Springs Centralian Advocate, Tuesday, 2 February 2010:
The Alice Springs Police Beat had been in operation for four to five months.
Here we go: ‘$10 A Beer. Bootleg grog sold in suburban houses.’ There is a great one to justify your BDR. You are so upset we stopped the BDR, which did not work. If it did we would have kept it. ‘$10 A Beer’, bootleg beer.
Goodness me, cop that!
This is a beauty from 14 January 2011:
Once again the current Chief Minister getting the front page:
This went on and on ever since the Police Beat.
‘West Side Story in Alice Springs’ is a beauty. This is the most appalling, and shows where things got to under your administration while we sat here for 11 years in opposition. I was here for five of those and we were saying something serious was going to happen. If ‘West Side Story in Alice Springs’, local businessmen being broken into, people lying unconscious in the streets in Alice Springs after being seriously assaulted, the front page headline saying, ‘Police disperse gangs of thugs near Stuart Terrace’, is not serious enough, which it was, it reached a high point with this headline on Thursday, 3 May 2012, while the Police Beat was in operation in Alice Springs and had been in operation close to three years, ‘Tourists raped at gunpoint’.
That is the legacy you left: tourists raped at gunpoint. It is right there. We all know the horrific story. It happened in my electorate; it was a despicable act. It is a disgraceful opposition member who said, ‘In the last 12 months you pulled out resources from these Police Beats and all of a sudden there has been this huge spike in crime. Nightcliff has been overrun by gangs and by property crime and violent crime.’ Yes, probably because that is the legacy you left us. It is like turning a big ship around; it does not happen overnight. You have left us with an enormous job …
Mr Chandler: And no money!
Mr CONLAN: …Yes, exactly right, thank you, member for Brennan: no money to address it.
However, we are starting to see some inroads. Alice Springs is a changed town. For the first time in living memory, Alice Springs has half the Cabinet based there. It is amazing what can be achieved when you have ministerial direction on the ground in Alice Springs. It is absolutely incredible. Unlike you guys who turned your back on it. You did not care. At one stage, the minister for Central Australia was the member for Daly, based at Coolalinga. He was the fly-in fly-out minister for Central Australia. Then you put that other guy in who was completely asleep at the wheel, Karl Hampton. Thank God we have seen the back of him because he did nothing for Alice Springs. The last 10 years are testament to his failure.
Let us have a look at some of the other issues. I will quote from this Property Council document. I love this document. I pull it out every now and then; it is 10 years of hard Labor. It is a great little bible I keep in the top drawer and pull out every now and then when we need to fire a shot across the bow of these guys who have their heads in the clouds. Everything has changed in the last 12 months, but for the better. For them, of course, it is for the worse.
The Property Council of Australia’s 2011 damning report into the performance of the Henderson government highlighted just how poorly Labor was delivering on core government services. The report called My City, My People’s Verdict rated the Henderson Labor government last in the provision of affordable housing, health services, education, and law and order. It is there in the report. It is not a Country Liberals report, it was not an opposition report, this was a report from the Property Council which rated the Henderson Labor government last in the provision of services on law and order.
The NT News on Sunday 23 January 2011 said the Northern Territory government rated the worst in the nation. It is not just a coincidence; this is not just a one-off. They were telling us from all directions you guys were pretty hopeless. They were telling us from everywhere: the Property Council, the people on the streets, the people in the bush.
We were talking about it before, member for Arnhem. At what stage did you win your seat? It might have been about 6.45 pm. It was a convincing win. A minister of the Crown was toppled at about 6.45 pm on election night. Pretty convincing! It did not need to go to preferences, or to the Monday count. It was all over in about 45 minutes. Done-ski! Gone! She is in, the other one is out! Pretty convincing. People in the bush, the Property Council, the Business Council, the newspapers were telling us you guys were hopeless: the worst government in the nation.
If that is not enough I have more. Crime rates in the Northern Territory were twice as high as the Australian average and, in most categories, they were significantly higher. I am reading from the Police, Fire and Emergency Services Annual Report from 2009-10 - a document I have had for a couple of years - just when you guys were about to be turfed out.
There were 570 more crimes against the person in 2009-10 than there were in 2008-09. Tracking backwards, clearly, the rate of violent assaults had risen by 80% under the Labor government’s decade of denial. They are still in denial; they still cannot own up to it and face it. You guys are out for a reason. Assaults had risen by 80% during a decade of the Labor government from 2001 to 2011.
In the previous financial year, there were 7296 crimes against the person in the Northern Territory, compared to just 6726 in the previous financial year. There were still many assaults and crimes; they had gone up. That is an 8.5% increase in just 12 months.
On average, there were 18 crimes against the person in the Northern Territory every day, and that was under the previous administration, while the Police Beats were in full operation. The Police Beat in Alice Springs did not work; it was hopeless. You would turn up, and push the button. Someone in Darwin would answer the phone and say, ‘Yes?’ ‘I am reporting an assault happening in front of me right now’, and the reply would be, ‘What is your name? What is your phone number? Who are you?’ The person reporting the crime would then reply, ‘No, you need to get someone here right now, because there is an assault taking place right now, in broad daylight, in the Todd Mall, right under the nose of the Police Beat. There is no one in there, I have to push the button’. ‘Oh, can you go around the corner to the police?’ ‘No, I need someone here.’ ‘Oh okay, I need your name.’ It was an absolute shemozzle!
That money is much better directed to frontline police services, getting police on the beat, and preventing this sort of stuff, which is exactly what is happening. We have already moved to have the Alice Springs Police Station operating 24 hours a day. That is a marked difference to where we have come from.
I have more statistics. These are appalling figures but, for the sake of this argument, they have to be read - for the sake of that speech by the member for Nightcliff. I know she is new to the Chamber but, member for Nightcliff, you have been around long enough. You have been in the Northern Territory long enough to know what you said tonight was absolute garbage. You have seen it. The crimes on the street in Nightcliff did not just happen in the last 12 months. They have been around for the last 12 years, and we have a big job to turn it around. It will not happen overnight, it is a huge job to address this culture.
Alice Springs has felt the brunt of Labor’s failed law and order policy since around 2004 and 2005. Robbery has increased by 450%. In the last nearly 10 years - this document was written in 2010, three years ago. Since 2004-05, looking at eight years, robbery has increased by 450%, assault by 87%, sexual assault by 97%, including tourists raped at gunpoint.
When is enough, enough for you? When did you realise? When did the penny drop? I do not think it ever did. When did you realise, ‘We have lost control of this; I do not think we are getting on top of it’? Did it ever occur to you after that headline that two young backpackers, so vital to the Northern Territory and Alice Spring’s economy and community - the very people we are trying to attract - were raped at gunpoint? Holy cow! It just did not seem to dawn; the penny never dropped.
Sexual assault was up by 97%, house break-ins by 64%, commercial break-ins by 185%, motor vehicle theft by 97%, and property damage by 71%. This great document goes on.
The Northern Territory’s crime wave was taking its toll on people’s feeling of safety at home. How safe did people feel in their own home and in their own community? I will tell you: 36% of Northern Territory adults felt unsafe compared to just 26% of adults nationally. It was well above the national average.
The Northern Territory had the highest proportion of prisoners in gaol for assaults at 39%, almost double the national average of 20%. The Territory also has the highest proportion of prisoners in gaol for theft. No kidding? We do not need a statistic, I do not need to read it, we all know it. You know it, or maybe you do not. The sad thing is, I do not think you do, despite all this evidence, not just from the paper, but from the public and various stakeholder groups around the Northern Territory all saying you have to do something. It was all about maintaining just the northern suburbs.
It is interesting because you did maintain the northern suburbs, but you still lost government. That is remarkable in itself. There is a reason for that: you dropped the ball. The penny never dropped, you did not get it. We told you for years that something serious was going to happen. ‘Oh no, we have it under control. We have the Police Beats, we have more police on the streets. We have our BDR.’
What else did you have? You used to come up with all these band-aid solutions, plus tinkering with legislation. It was incredible; you would bring in legislation aimed at targeting antisocial behaviour, you would realise it did not work, and we would be back in this Chamber making amendments to it because it was completely flawed. It was remarkable. It was the ‘oops’ bill, which I know the member for Barkly is familiar with. We told you so, you did not listen, and you are over there.
You say the Police Beats were so successful, and we are destroying the Territory way of life and adding to the crime wave that, all of a sudden, just appeared. This crime wave suddenly appeared like a tsunami or a cyclone hitting town on 25 August 2012. All of a sudden, your eyes have been opened. Yes, you have done pretty well. I have to give the member for Nightcliff something; she has done pretty well. You have watched us for the last 10 years campaign on law and order. But it does not work for you because you had your chance; you had your opportunity. You had 10 years; in fact, you had 11 years. You could have done something at any point, but you did not. You did not take it seriously and you turned your back on the rest of the Northern Territory. As long as the northern suburbs were safe, you felt, ‘Yes, we can maintain our position.’ But the rest of the Northern Territory turned against you because you turned against them.
You turned against us; we tried to tell you. I said in this Chamber for a long time that if there was ever a chance you might gain the respect and support of Alice Springs, then was your chance. Your term in government was your chance. You have never won a seat in Alice Springs or in Katherine. You have never won a seat in any of those towns and there is a reason for it. It is not impossible and it is not beyond your reach, you just need to start showing those communities a little respect. You had your time, you had your opportunity, and you blew it.
Now you are paying the price, so do not come in here and start telling us this motion - I do not even know what it is; it is something to do with Police Beats and how the closure of Police Beats has caused this huge tsunami of crime across the Northern Territory. That is very cute, member for Casuarina.
However, Mr Deputy Speaker, we are not buying it and neither is the Northern Territory community.
Mr McCARTHY (Barkly): Mr Deputy Speaker, I support this motion. For all the constituents of the Northern Territory who are listening to this broadcast, that was the member for Greatorex exposing a career reading newspapers into a lonely microphone. As a minister of the Crown, what he did not provide for constituents was any solutions to that diatribe of reading newspapers into a lonely microphone. I suppose what he needed was a call back so people could phone in and make comments.
I support this motion because, as a member of the opposition and the voice of Northern Territory people, we put forward their vision, views and voices. This motion has come from constituents; it has come from a Northern Territory constituency. It relates to police presence.
The Chief Minister has contributed to the debate in a positive light. An ex-police officer, the member for Katherine, contributed to the debate with logistical comments around Police Beats. However, what the Chief Minister and the member for Katherine have said is they agree with the motion because the concept is about a positive police presence.
In urban areas and other jurisdictions we can document that a Police Beat, or police presence in a shopping centre, makes the public feel safe. The member for Katherine was able to craft that into a logistical debate and tried to counter the claim. What the member for Katherine knows to be true is it is about how the police station interfaces with the Police Beat to increase visibility of police on the streets, which makes people feel safe.
I will talk briefly about the people in the bush; they want to feel safe as well. Wherever I go in the electorate of Barkly and across other electorates, people in the bush ask for police stations. They ask, basically, for a police presence. Police and policing makes people feel safe. This motion is very simple. It is a motion that has come from the people and talks about an initiative that is effective policing. It is about community engagement.
I will make some comments on the Chief Minister’s dialogue about Tennant Creek. I encourage the Chief Minister to come back to Tennant Creek and continue his research because he has some skewed messages. The first one I comment on is the Chief Minister’s talk about domestic violence. In the previous Northern Territory government, as the crime statistics for assaults were dropping throughout the Northern Territory, I was a Cabinet minister who had to face the reality they were rising in Tennant Creek. While my colleagues were celebrating the reduction in assaults - that important work - I had to face the fact that in the town I live in and the electorate I represent, crime statistics were increasing.
I asked why. We had to look at it very closely. I discovered something positive out of that bad statistic. The Tennant Creek police in Barkly had a new focus on domestic violence. They were going out hard to stop domestic violence and were policing that aspect of crime in our community and our families and were making inroads. It was another story of Enough is Enough.
Those bad crime statistics the Chief Minister talked about in Tennant Creek related to that very pointed policing strategy. The Chief Minister said he wants to continue that strategy. He said he wants to be a personal ambassador against domestic violence and violence against Aboriginal women. That is what our police have also been doing. He is right, in Tennant Creek we have a long way to go.
His story about the AFL and the development officer was right off target. I give the Chief Minister some advice from a person who has lived in Barkly for over 34 years. What he was talking about does not just relate to Tennant Creek; he is talking about regional football competitions which attract many people from the regional and remote areas into town. People get stuck in town; they get caught without transport and money. They come to town and get into trouble. With that low-level recidivist behaviour around alcohol, antisocial behaviour, and traffic, they end up in gaol. What is a very good initiative of running sporting competitions turns into a very bad outcome, particularly when young Indigenous men end up in gaol.
Chief Minister, it is not about an AFL development officer who brings people to Tennant Creek to play football. They have been doing that for years - in your town as well - and it happens all over the Territory. It is about finding solutions to create a positive from a positive. I presented the petition in parliament which I am still waiting for an answer to. The member for Namatjira should be involved in this as it was a regional development focus. It was an election commitment I had from the previous government about developing sporting infrastructure that relates to sporting ovals and supporting bush camping grounds so the initiative can be turned into regional football competitions and home and away games. It is in the parliament and has not been responded to. The deadline is fast approaching and the people of Barkly - from memory there were 370-odd signatures from Borroloola, Elliott, Tennant Creek and Ali Curung - want to know the answer.
This is an initiative about spreading the sport around, washing money through those growth towns, and people at Ali Curung being able to celebrate their team playing four other teams over a normal BAFL weekend competition round, and having 400 spectators of their home crowd watching their team, instead of 20 or 30 who make it into Tennant to watch the team. It is about washing the economy with money, opportunities for fundraising so the school can sell steak sandwiches and the childcare centre in a remote growth town can sell soft drinks. It is about people getting up in the morning and being engaged.
Chief Minister, before you commit totally to your senior bureaucrat, your Chief Minister’s Office, the budget for travel, motor cars, hospitality, and whatever else you are planning to do, please come to Tennant Creek and consult because that budget line can deliver real results - what you Liberal mob call real action - in funding some very pragmatic initiatives that will deliver real outcomes.
One of those is developing this sporting infrastructure across the regions. It will solve the story, of which you have only been given half. If you want to come to Tennant Creek, I encourage you to talk to Anyinginyi Sport and Recreation’s fantastic young staff led by Adam Drake, who has pulled that Barkly competition together and implemented some incredible initiatives. Look at this infrastructure as well. That sort of money goes a long way to solving problems as opposed to getting half the story, the incorrect information, then planning a bureaucratic response with an Office of the Chief Minister and the associated budget. If you do not believe me, then come and talk to the people in Tennant Creek and the Barkly, and the BAFL committee.
In the previous government, a great deal of money went into developing sporting infrastructure at the Purkiss Reserve, and I am very proud of that. Part of that was lights. I researched some models around the country where local councils were using well-lit community sport and recreation areas at night time to attract kids and run development activities for them. They started to realise that antisocial behaviour, youth crime, and other associated problems around regional and remote towns like Alice Springs, particularly in the summer time, were starting to come under control because kids were actively engaged.
I put to the Police Commissioner my alternative strategy of policing, which represents Police Beats; it is about police presence. It was to get a patrol out of a Toyota Hilux and get them on to the Purkiss Reserve in Tennant Creek on a Friday night under lights to conduct some activities with the youth in Tennant Creek. My commitment is to pack volunteers and community members around that. If we could have coppers in singlets, shorts, and running shoes and not in a Hilux chasing kids around, then we are going to start something different.
I also had to deal with all the industry issues about occupational health and safety, pay rates and overtime and all those other issues. The Police Commissioner challenged me with, ‘Who will conduct the traditional patrols while my officers are trying this alternative strategy?’ We had to work through all these issues. However, Chief Minister, if you have money to throw around and you want to do something for Tennant Creek, then I challenge you to do something in an alternative strategy.
This motion talks about something tried across the country that is proven; it is about Police Beats. To make it work, you do not try to deny it and logistically debate it, you admit that a strong interface between a police station and a Police Beat, with community involvement, is the way to go. Other jurisdictions have proved that, and that is why it was taken on in the Northern Territory. As the member for Nightcliff said in her contribution, which was screamed at by the member for Greatorex and howled down, yes, we had that, but that has been cut; it has gone. It is an initiative that people want back.
I say again, Chief Minister, please, come and listen. Come and talk to the people on the ground if you do not believe me. Start to look at some alternatives of engaging youth and community in Tennant Creek. I encourage you to then talk to the women’s refuge in Tennant Creek. Talk to the stakeholders at BRADAAG, the alcohol and other drugs rehabilitation centre. Talk to the people at the sobering-up shelter. They will all give you ideas for budget investment.
When we hear a story of $5m of taxpayers’ money going into a report on the Palmerston hospital, when the previous minister for Health offered the government a report for nothing, I ask the Chief Minister, do you realise how much $5m would do in Tennant Creek, the community you are so concerned about all of a sudden? That is a lot of cash that delivers many results in a town like Tennant Creek and maybe into some of these areas, including protecting our women and children and delivering results in other aspects of the youth justice area. The population of people under the age of 25, with a population growth rate above the national average, should be the focus if you really want to do something for Tennant Creek.
The Chief Minister threw out an alternative for Tennant Creek which was the possibility of opening speed limits so Ford or Holden - they were the main ones - could come back and test their cars. Chief Minister, come back to Tennant Creek and get the full story. A Ford sedan covered in vinyl, towing a small trailer with a flashing light to prevent any photographs being taken of this new model being tested, with a crew of two that stays at the showground, is probably not worth opening speed limits on Territory roads around Tennant Creek for.
I appreciate your creativity and viewing an alternative in economic development, but, for God’s sake, I say again: come to Tennant Creek and get the real facts around what the testing regime of those motor cars actually delivered; how long they were in Tennant Creek, how much they spent, and what they did in their testing regimes. Then come and talk to people who will give you real alternatives for spending taxpayers’ money to deliver economic drivers, youth justice initiatives, and a proactive police presence.
One great initiative I will mention is the police community engagement officers. That is an excellent initiative and there has been a great example at Ali Curung of some excellent work. The second engagement officer is currently in the job; the first one was excellent, the second one is continuing that work. It is a great example of community policing where the police officer, just like the Police Beat, is connected with the community. They interface between the police station and the community directly. They are visible, approachable, and they communicate with the community which starts to improve those relationships.
Other initiatives which are very valuable are the police horses and police on motorbikes, but always the police on the beat. In an urban area, you can get that interface right and push, as a policy, police officers moving between the Police Beat and police stations. As the member for Katherine said, by not using the Police Beat to rest but as an active presence and to raise that profile, you are going to get results.
For what I call our major events in Tennant Creek, when we have many community people come to town, tourists arrive, and special events, then we get an increased police presence. We have alcohol restrictions and there are a number of initiatives that are regularly employed to ensure the community is safe and you get the maximum benefit out of that event. That is when we see the horses, the police on motorcycles, and the police on the beat. They are very valuable initiatives in community policing with a high police presence.
That is what this debate is all about. It is good to have positive contribution to this debate. It is always important to debate in this House about community safe strategies. Chief Minister, I have thrown out that challenge for you but, first of all, you better chase down that petition because I would not like to see any embarrassment on the government side if it is lost and no response turns up in the allotted time, which I think is 12 sitting days. The deadline for your government is coming up on 28 August, and the people of Barkly are still waiting to hear.
It is a great regional initiative; it comes from the people. It is a vision I shared with footballers, elders, and respected people. I took it to youth workers. I had sport and recreation officers canvass the idea. Everybody agrees with it, but it needs some cash. The funny thing about it was it was not a very big, outlandish election commitment; it was very targeted expenditure in those areas that would deliver an amazing outcome and, as you said, Chief Minister, create economic drivers.
To have people go to Elliott to play a round of the BAFL competition on a weekend is a positive thing. Guess what? They are going to have to deal with alcohol because Elliott has a pub. They might have to have a beer after the game, but it is about having a beer and going home. It is about celebrating the game and getting up the next morning and going to work. That is where we are headed, Chief Minister.
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Casuarina for bringing this forward and allowing me to contribute to a positive debate in this House and to add ideas.
Chief Minister, I challenge you. Bring your budget and your cheque book with you. Tennant Creek would love to see you. Wipe me out of the equation; I do not want any kudos out of this. Residents of Tennant Creek and the Barkly want to speak to you. You have a cheque book and you are talking about spending money in Tennant Creek. Come down and we will make sure you spend it wisely.
Mr STYLES (Infrastructure): Mr Deputy Speaker, before I get into some of the things I want to say, I will respond to some of the issues raised by members opposite.
First, I remind everyone that on coming to government the CLP had to face a massive debt of $5.5bn and a political and practical mess that we were left to clean up. There is nothing I would like to be able to do more, as a member of government, than suggest to my colleagues that we have Police Beats everywhere. Let us place an office in all places; let us have one everywhere.
However, the reality is we do not have the money to splash around like the previous government did. The money they splashed around, I might add, is borrowed money and they did not live within their budget. My mother taught me basic economics. Unfortunately, she was not able to go to university but she went to the university of life and she taught me. ‘You have to live within your budget, son. You can borrow for a house and perhaps you can borrow for a car, but you cannot borrow for all this other stuff. You have to live within your means otherwise you will go broke.’ That is basic advice most parents give their kids. I look around the room and everybody is nodding so I see that as an acknowledgment that they are the basics.
Sadly, the previous Labor government spent way too much borrowed money. This is money my children and grandchildren will have to repay because it will be years before we get out of this situation. In the meantime, the government on this side will work hard to create economic development so we can pay that debt off earlier than anticipated.
I will go to comments made by the member for Barkly. The member for Barkly said, ‘We want a police presence. We want people to get out there’, and to quote him, ‘get police mixing with people and get them out of cars’. That also applies to getting them out of offices. Sadly, if you have Police Beats that are not a necessity you have people sitting in offices. They are required to do paperwork and they have to be there so when people knock on the door they can answer questions.
The member for Nightcliff also said people want to mix with police officers. Sadly, if you look at the Police Beat she mentioned - Nightcliff police station - there is a bunch of people manning the office during daylight hours and into the evening.
It takes 13 police officers to put one extra patrol on the road 24 hours a day seven days a week. The very minimum is 10 officers. If you take into account recreation leave, training courses, mandatory training requirements, sick leave, long service leave, etcetera, you have to allow 13 police officers to put one extra patrol on the road.
The members for Barkly and Nightcliff said, ‘We want to see police officers out there. We want extra police officers.’ However, when you start opening extra Police Beats and take people out of their normal duties and put them into Police Beats, you are removing the ability of police officers and their supervisors to roster extra patrols on the road. That has an impact on response times and on seeing police driving around your neighbourhood.
There is no one participating in the debate at the moment …
Mr Tollner: Apart from us
Mr STYLES: Apart from us. We care, that is the thing ...
Mr Tollner: Is it our motion? Who moved the motion?
Mr STYLES: I will pick up on the interjection from the member for Fong Lim. No, it is not our motion, but we care. I wonder who it was? We care about this, which is why we are all keen to participate in this debate. For the benefit of those …
Mr Elferink: Keener than other members I could mention.
Mr STYLES: Absolutely.
However, I digress, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was talking about the number of members required to get patrols back on the road. As you are well aware, my electorate is in the northern suburbs so I am concerned about the northern suburbs. People turn up at my office who have been to other offices in the northern suburbs and are concerned about the lack of attention they receive. That may be true, it may not be. However, they turn up in my office expressing their concern about various things that happen. That is occurring less and less, and there is a reason for that.
I have issues in my electorate, and I also represent people from outside my electorate in the northern suburbs. I meet, on a regular basis, with the Superintendent and senior sergeants at Casuarina Police Station. We discuss what is happening, why it is happening, and what they can do to fix it.
However, I notice I am hearing fewer concerns. It is interesting that the member for Nightcliff said that, suddenly, everything has gone through the roof in her electorate. That is not what I am told when I inquire on behalf of people in Nightcliff who turn up in my office in Sanderson to discuss various issues. That may be because they do not like the member, or they like me more than they like others. There is probably a host of reasons why they turn up in my office.
However, I go to Casuarina Police Station for my regular meetings with the Superintendent and others and we discuss what is happening. I give them all sorts of information that comes my way. I also ask them, ‘How are you fixing this?’
It is very interesting because since the CLP government came in, there has been a slight change in focus. I will get to the alcohol-related issues shortly. However, there is a thing now called the Public Order Unit. My understanding is this unit consists of a sergeant and about six officers, who are given the job of targeting antisocial behaviour, alcohol-related crimes and, generally, just being around.
If the member for Nightcliff rings Casuarina Police Station about what is happening in Nightcliff and says there is an issue in this street, in that street, or people are gathering in that park, the people who were, at some stage, dedicated to Nightcliff who are now part of the Public Order Unit are now highly mobile. Where they get the hot spots the member for Casuarina spoke about in the introduction to this motion, they go in and smash that area. It is almost a ‘take no prisoners’ attitude where they go in and fix the antisocial behaviour. Then, if it moves to another park, as the reports come in from the members of the public or the MLAs who might receive that information in their offices and pass it to Casuarina Police Station, these people can be highly mobile and can fix the problem.
That brings us to the other side of the coin where members opposite seem to want people in the Nightcliff office 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That will take many officers off the road and not allow the police to target the hot spots. If somebody is sitting in Nightcliff station and there are only a couple of jobs a week, even they might feel they would be better off going somewhere where they can make a bigger contribution to the common good. That happens. Some of the anecdotal evidence I have received from members I have known in the police force for many years says exactly that.
The Northern Territory Police Association, for instance, supports the scrapping of Police Beats with the exception of Katherine. I believe Katherine has a particular situation. The police and fire complex has been built in East Katherine out of the 100-year flood zone so it will not be flooded. Therefore, it has gone from the city block they call the CBD in Katherine. There is a Police Beat there that saves people having to go right out of town to go to the police complex, which is not a bad idea.
However, I listened to the member for Nightcliff when she said police are saying it is all terrible, they want the Banned Drinker Register back, and they support all the Police Beats. I do not know where the member for Nightcliff is getting her information from, but my information is the Northern Territory Police Association supports the scrapping of all Police Beats with the exception of Katherine.
Let us look at where the resources are going. If you start taking out police to put into, say Casuarina for instance, there are a number of people off the Casuarina roster who could be putting extra patrols on the road, or extra people into the Public Order Unit. This Public Oder Unit has been very successful. In fact, on Friday, when the crime statistics come out, you will see a massive reduction in property crime, alcohol-related crime, unlawful entries and antisocial behaviour. If the figures and percentages I have been given anecdotally are the same as the crime statistics, then we will all be very impressed.
I encourage the member for Nightcliff, and those opposite who support the Police Beats and the 24-hour services they are proposing, to look at that and see what has happened since there has been a shift in the focus away from 24/7 police stations like Nightcliff, Parap and Karama. If you open those things as they want we will be taking more resources away from the streets and from the ability to hit the hot spots.
I can inform the member for Nightcliff that my understanding from my briefings is that the current Nightcliff station is being run on skeleton staff. They have had to divert many people from sitting in offices to getting them out where the members for Barkly and Nightcliff want them to be: interacting with people. They say they want this, and we are happy to concede that is right; we want them out mixing with the people and generally showing the flag in many areas where there appears to be a build-up in antisocial behaviour, crime, or what have you. To be able to fly the flag and have that instant response capacity to move from Nightcliff to Karama to Tiwi or wherever, is tactical advantage for police.
However, if we put them onto a 24/7 roster at Nightcliff, then we cannot shift them from Nightcliff to Karama, Tiwi, Northlakes, Wulagi, or wherever. There is a disadvantage to do what the current opposition would like us to do. When you talk to the experts - they say they have spoken to experts. I do not know. The Police Association, the Police Commissioner and those in the executive management of the Police, Fire and Emergency Services, I am sure, look at how best they can use their resources both operationally and in relation to the tactics they use to reduce crime and antisocial behaviour.
I repeat that the downward trend of figures is substantial. I have been given a rough idea of where that might be. I am looking forward to Friday when the crime stats come out. Next week we can discuss them again in this House and look at some of the benefits.
I pick up on what the member for Nightcliff was saying about the Banned Drinker Register and her claim that the police are very keen to have it back. I worked with many police officers who are still out there and they tell me that what we have now with mandatory rehabilitation is the best thing since sliced bread.
I will go back to the Banned Drinker Register and talk about what it set out to achieve. The Banned Drinker Register prevented people from buying takeaway alcohol. What it did not stop people from doing was going into a bar and getting charged up to a point where staff would say, ‘You have probably had enough’. They would turn them off and they would go outside. They said, ‘Sorry, you cannot have any more’, so they would choose to leave and go outside. The Banned Drinker Register may have stopped a few. It probably stopped all the good people and tourists from buying alcohol from time to time, but it did not stop these people from getting hold of alcohol.
I recall one of the women’s refuge centres in town said that when the Banned Drinker Register came in, alcohol-related domestic violence went up by 7%. They said they were hearing that the males were forcing the females to buy alcohol for them. Then, if they would not, they would simply beat them up. That was a problem.
It is not supply which is a problem. If the only course of action you take is to restrict supply, then you are not fixing the problem.
The member for Nightcliff spoke about secondary supply. I recall, in opposition, talking about secondary supply. I spoke to legal people, police prosecutors and police officers I know, some of who do not necessarily support my side of politics. I had discussions with them and it is interesting because they spoke about the inability to prosecute people for secondary supply unless the person confesses. The problem is proving you knew someone was on the Banned Drinker Register. I have seen it happen where someone would say, if they had a bung leg, ‘I cannot walk in there. Can you buy me that?’
If they asked me that, how did I check to see if they were on the Banned Drinker Register? This is the absurdity of the legislation the previous government introduced. How did I know? I could not ring anyone to ask if Mr Smith or Billy Blogs was on the Banned Drinker Register because, under privacy rules, no one would give me that information. We had a problem. Somebody said to a backpacker in Smith Street, ‘Mate, can you buy me a carton?’ ‘Yes, no problems.’ Irrespective of whether you thought that person may or may not have been on the Banned Drinker Register, you could not check. If that person did not tell you, was it an offence? It was not an offence for that person not to tell someone else they were on the Banned Drinker Register. So, they got a slab of beer or a bottle of rum. I have seen the results of that time and time again.
One of the shopkeepers in my electorate said they had a person come in - they had no idea of the real identity of the person – who brought a pocketful of driver’s licences. Apparently the person had licences in about 12 different names and just kept putting them through the scanner until one came up positive. I told that person, ‘The moment they pulled them out you should have refused to sell to them’. From that point on I believe they did, but that was very early days.
I was told about a sad thing in a liquor outlet by a person who was standing in a line waiting, and someone had alcohol to buy. They did not know if they were tourists or not, but they did not have a driver’s licence and were not aware of the restrictions. They said, ‘I am a respectable citizen. I am presenting myself.’ There was a line waiting to …
Mr CHANDLER: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Pursuant to Standing Order 77, I request an extension of time for the member to complete his remarks.
Motion agreed to.
Mr STYLES: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker and member for Brennan.
There was a big line and the guy serving simply leaned under the counter and took a box out that had about 250 driver’s licences in it, scanned one and said, ‘There you go, mate, see you later’.
It is an absurd situation for the opposition to say that when they were in government their program worked. The reason we scrapped the BDR, member for Nightcliff, is it simply did not work and did not stop people from drinking alcohol. For instance, one guy received 114 notices in a 12-month period. That was good, wasn’t it? That really worked.
Now, the message is getting around in the community because it is being spread that you will go in for mandatory rehabilitation. If people do not want to do the mandatory rehabilitation then they change their behaviour. If people are choosing to change their behaviour - the member for Nightcliff suggested people were defecating in people’s front yards, on verandas and things - then we have achieved part of our objective of getting people to change their drinking habits. If they are drinking more responsibly, that is good.
In relation to secondary supply, it was still a problem in our parks and gardens and in people’s gardens and front verandas. Business people had to come to work in the morning with high pressure cleaners and lots of Pine O Cleen to remove human faeces from their verandas, etcetera. That was a major problem.
They cannot do that when they are in mandatory rehabilitation. There is a huge reduction in the amount of antisocial behaviour and in people sitting around in parks getting plastered. It has changed what is happening. It has not been in for long at all, but there is a change of behaviour. It has just been 11 months, but when it has been going for nearly as long as the BDR did, you will see a marked difference. We are already seeing a marked difference in the behaviour of people. We see a reduction of drinking in our parks around Casuarina. In my electorate, two years ago I was receiving constant complaints about people drinking in parks, antisocial behaviour around kids’ playgrounds, and finding syringes, broken beer bottles, and a range of things in kids’ playgrounds in schools. That has reduced and I am pleased so far, as it has only been in since 1 July 2013.
I congratulate my colleague, the member for Araluen, for doing a fabulous job so far and reducing it so quickly. I am hoping that in another 11 months, we will see a major change in the attitude of people who think they can do whatever they like in our community.
The other thing the member for Nightcliff raised - and I cannot help but address this – was the 46 amendments in the committee stage of our bill, rushed through in the middle of the night without any consultation …
Mrs Lambley: Efficient.
Mr STYLES: We are efficient. It is interesting because my understanding is when you put something together and consult people and ask for their input, you listen to them. I believe 46 amendments demonstrate the breadth and depth of our consultation with the community and the groups who provide the services. We did consult them, we did listen, and they had some good ideas. It is not until you take draft bills out to discuss with people that they are able to think about it and think something might be an issue. Okay, we can fix that.
To sit on the other side, member for Nightcliff, and suggest that when your Labor government brought in legislation we should not amend it is absurd. In fact, it demonstrates that if that is your attitude, you are on the correct side of this House. If you are not going to listen to people who have good ideas and recommend changes in legislation, you are on the correct side of this House. It is arrogance if you think what you put out should not be amended or there are too many amendments.
It is great. I congratulate my colleagues who have been working on this, and the staff of the department for listening to people suggesting some good ideas and changes. Some of those changes might have come from a number of members on the other side. We take up the suggestions and amend the bill.
I am looking forward to the statistics being released on a monthly basis. They will, in an open and transparent way, demonstrate to the people of the Northern Territory we are an accountable government. I believe you will see a downwards trend in overall antisocial behaviour and alcohol-related crime.
I am informed, through my regular meetings and other anecdotal evidence I have received, that the number of alcohol-fueled domestic violence assaults is down. I suggest that is because some of these people who have been forced to change their drinking habits are not beating the living daylights out of women, forcing them to buy alcohol because their licence does not work. These are major issues that people face.
I do not even want to go onto Alice Springs and the bush situation; there are other bush members who wish to contribute. I will say the Public Order Unit is working extremely well in hitting hot spots, which deals with the issue the member for Casuarina raised earlier. Member for Casuarina, I encourage you to look at the crime stats on Friday when they come out. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised. I sincerely hope when you come back into this House you will choose not to bag the things that are working, but acknowledge they are making a difference.
This CLP government is about making a difference: making hard decisions in the very tight fiscal era we are in, where we simply do not have the money. We have a budget, and we cannot just throw buckets of money at the problem. We have to work smarter and use what little money we have in our budget to get the job done.
In so many instances in the four years I sat in opposition, I saw and heard the previous Labor government say on a regular basis - in fact, the member for Karama, when she was the Treasurer, constantly said, ‘But we spent more money than the CLP government’. It is not necessarily about money. Money helps, and if we had the money we would be able to do a range of things. When you look at so much of what has been discussed in this House today, we could make such a huge contribution to everything if we had buckets and buckets of money.
The sad thing is, we do not. The even sadder thing is we have to pay it back, and it will be a drain to the tune of about $1m a day trying to pay back the debt - that is just the interest - the previous government left us. It demonstrates that, in relation to Police Beats and many others issues, you simply cannot trust Labor to get it right.
What I have heard tonight from the members for Nightcliff and Barkly is they just do not understand the issues and problems. I encourage them to speak to the Police Commissioner, try to get on the patrols with the police. look at what they do, and have a discussion with those police officers about what they, at the coalface, believe is the best way to utilise what they have available to them. Talk to some of the supervisors, the people who are at the coalface, and find out the reality.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I am encouraged by what police officers say to me. Like all the service providers in the alcohol service industry, they really like it. They liked it on 9 December 2011 and they like it now, and they are very keen to support the government’s initiatives.
Ms LEE (Arnhem): Mr Deputy Speaker, I will also contribute to this debate to reflect on a few things the member for Barkly said about engaging with the people in the bush and talking to them. From my perspective, he has that totally wrong because the people have not asked for what the member for Barkly just spoke about.
If they were listening to this debate, they would be quite disappointed to know how disengaged the Labor Party is with the people in the bush. We were left in dire straits by the Labor government with a $5.5bn debt. Now, they expect us to do the same thing they have done and live off the credit card to continue the Police Beat operations. It is impossible. Anybody who knows how to budget their money would tell you that. Anybody with common sense would tell you that.
If you have been engaging in the bush - I invite the people to listen to this because this is important. From before we even got in after the election last year until now it is still one of the best topics. The member for Nhulunbuy would know, if she was here to speak up for the people, that they have spoken about this. I have been to a few electorates and I have always heard the same thing. They do not want Police Beats in the shopping centres. They do not contribute. In the communities they want the call centres to be local. But, do you know what? We cannot put them back because we are in so much debt it is not funny.
That is what the people want. The communities have been so under-resourced it is not funny any more. Look at Roper police station for example. In the 11 years of Labor, you put two demountables there and did not even put a sewerage or power system through their house. People who stayed there had to go to the next block to use the toilet. That is devastating. These are the people who serve our communities. These are the police officers - only two officers in a community of 1500 people. The community is asking for more support. There is nothing there. We do not even have the money to do it.
Why? Because we are in the situation you left us in. We had no idea we were going to come into this. I did not. I had big dreams, hopes, and aspirations for the people in the bush because I wanted the best for my people. I cannot represent their best interests because we are in the situation we were left in, and I have to go and tell them that.
The member for Barkly should know that. He says in this parliament he is talking to the people of the Barkly region. I have been to Tennant Creek too, heaps of times. I have been to Elliott. He was talking about Tennant Creek going to Elliott for football. If he took any notice a couple of months ago when reading the paper, he would have realised there is no football oval there. That community was left for dead too. There have been no improvements to the majority of the communities for 20 years. SIHIP only focused on growth towns. There was nothing.
The community wanted local call centres back and more police officers on the ground; that is the biggest push for them. If we had more money, yes, we would support the Police Beats in the shopping centres because they support the frail old people who walk past and get hassled. In the past, before we even put this new legislation through about mandatory rehabilitation, these old people - even me, and everybody knows who I am. When I walk out this door, I am equal to everybody else. I am not a politician; I am Larisa Lee in the streets, like everybody else. I do not make myself different to anybody else, and that is the truth.
In here, I represent the views of the people, and that is not only people in my electorate, but in other bush electorates. I am representing the electorates of the members for Nhulunbuy and Barkly too. It is an obligation we were given when elected into parliament. That is our job, to speak the truth.
Let us go back to before the legislation came in. Yes, we were getting hassled in the shopping centres, even when the Police Beats were there. That was a failure with the BDR. Countrymen were walking around pushing trolleys you can put a dollar coin in. Come to Katherine, member for Casuarina, you will see what I mean. You put a dollar coin in the trolley, you walk around trying to do your shopping with your kids and your partner, and you are constantly getting hassled for spare change. But you would not know that …
Mr Vatskalis: Yes, I do, I go to Katherine.
Ms LEE: No, you do not. You did not change it. You did not think about how you could strategically make it work better, did you? You just thought, no, let us just keep the BDR in place; that will help the people. What? They are going to hassle us to buy the grog; they are not hassling you ...
Mr Vatskalis: You can always say no.
Ms LEE: They were not hassling you to buy the grog. Do not tell me that; do not mislead this parliament.
These are the people we have to bury every day. Do not lie to my people; they have been lied to enough. We walk around in the shopping centres and I was being hassled constantly for spare change ...
A member: All of us.
Ms LEE: All of us in the bush electorates. We know the truth. We see it. We face it every time we go back from Darwin.
Since the mandatory legislation has come in, the coppers are really good. They were going out, handing out these little pamphlets saying, ‘If you do the wrong thing, you get picked up three times in three months, you are going straight into mandatory rehabilitation’. Do you know what? Countrymen listened to that; they paid attention.
Do you know what the only backflip to that is now? You have more youth on the street drinking. That is everywhere in places such as Katherine, Darwin, Palmerston, Tennant Creek and even in Elliott. Borroloola is the same. In Gove it is the same. So now we have to look at the youth.
You did not come up with that idea because you did not care about how the BDR was going to work. You did not say either good or bad about it. You did not even try to make improvements. Because we are backbenchers, we are bringing this information back and saying, ‘Okay, now we need to focus on this’, because that is our job at the end of the day.
Let us go back to how the member for Barkly talked about strategically working engagement and stuff for communities. For one, I went to a community school. In all the years I went to that school, from when I was four until I was 12, there was not one health education teacher, not even in the neighbouring community. No one is there teaching them health. There is not a health teacher, there is nothing. There is a health teacher in Darwin, I know that much, but not in the bush. Where is the priority with that?
If you want to talk about engaging with the kids, where are the friendly games? Where are the sports about engagement? That does not happen any more. What were you focused on? But no, it is all of us to blame. How can we be the ones to blame when we did not put the Northern Territory in such a bad state? We were not the ones racking up the credit card debt and making promises we cannot keep.
We are trying to keep up with all that. We have a legacy too we would like to fulfil. We have people who want to see a difference. Everybody wants a better life. The majority of the people who live in the communities are really good; they are not all drunks. Obviously you do not know that. They are not all drunks. They go into town. It is the people who are in town who are faced with this chronic alcohol problem. They are our people, yes. They need help. We are not going to sit around and watch them drink.
One of my brothers-in-law is in hospital dying. He stopped talking yesterday. You think that is funny? That is not funny. It is because of alcohol. For the last 10 years he has been in Katherine and he drank his life to the bottom of the bottle. What has he got out of it? He is now dying in hospital.
That is the saddest thing we have to face every day of our lives. It is the most emotional thing we can tell this parliament, but that is the truth. That is the reason I am standing here: to tell you that. That is what we have to face as Indigenous politicians in this House. It is hurtful. It is not only us; it is when we go home to the community.
This bloke is pretty well known through Ngukurr, Numbulwar, all the way up to Ramingining and Lake Evella. He is a Rembarrnga Ritharrtnug man, a very strong cultural man. He once was, but alcohol got the best of him. The BDR did not do him any favours. There were hardly any resources on the ground. We did not give him a chance to find that hope in himself. He drank himself to the last bit. Now we are here, under-resourced, left with the legacy of the former Labor government, trying to fix that problem.
The attitude is changing. It has changed since we came up with this new legislation. It has done wonders. I go to the shopping centre now - I went back last weekend because I have been away for the whole time out bush. So much for the member for Nhulunbuy saying people do not know me in my electorate. Even your mob in your electorate has my stickers on their fridge and wear my T-shirts. That is how much they know me. But that is just for you to know. I put that on the record.
If I go back now, I do not get the hassles any more. There are two or three, but it is not out of hand as it used to be. You do not get hassled to walk to the pub to buy them another carton of something at the takeaway. You do not get that any more. You cannot force people to do things; they have to change within. You have to tell them, ‘All right, we are giving you a chance. You get in there, you make a change.’
It is not about feeling sorry all the time about people. These people have serious drinking problems. I was in health for 10 years. I had to bury my father and my oldest brother. My best friend was run over by a car because she was drunk. That is the reality I have to face every day. I do not cry about it any more. Why? Because it is the truth. What killed my people was drinking.
Your policies failed them and made it even worse because of the shires. Because you only focused on the larger communities and did not care about the smaller ones, everybody migrated into the regional centres: Tennant Creek, Alice Springs, Katherine, Palmerston and Darwin. Look how many live around the beach here. Do you think that is funny? Do you know what they say about them back home? They want them back, but the first thing they need to do is sort out their alcohol problems. It is like being a smoker, you have withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol is the same. When they go back they lash out at their people, their families. They take it out on their loved ones. We all know when you love somebody that is the first person you take it out on, the person you love the most. It is human nature, everybody know that; it is common sense.
This government is trying. Thanks to the member for Araluen, our Attorney-General, and the rest of the team for working together to try to find the best solution for our people, not just the people in the bush, but the people in the towns and cities.
I have been part of Correctional Services and worked with prisoners. While I was in Gove during Garma, I saw one of the camp sites where the prisoners are working. They think it is the best thing that ever happened to them. We are giving them back some responsibility and hope.
You never thought about that. All you cared about was locking them up, shutting the door, and putting more people in prison. That was Labor’s idea of Indigenous people: throwing them in gaol and locking them up. We give them a purpose to live, to serve, to pay back their community, to earn respect and be forgiven.
It is like being a Christian, then a sinner, then going back to being a Christian again. It is very similar. We are religious people too, very religious. About 90% of every community are very religious people. That is reality. They love the opportunity. I spoke to three blokes from three different areas, and they said, ‘Yes, this is the best thing that ever happened. Now we can support our families back home. Now we get to walk around and say hello to people like you, get to meet you firsthand. We did not realise you were such a down-to-earth person.’ I said, ‘I am no different to anybody. I have relatives in gaol.’ I am sure that is no surprise to anyone. All of us do, especially the bush members. That is just life.
All I am hearing here is yap, yap, yap, nagging about this and that. Why not try to look for the best possible outcome for the people of the Northern Territory?
The member for Barkly got it totally wrong. Obviously, you are not engaged with anybody in the bush. If you think they want more money and this and that, no, they do not. They want local call centres back; that is what they want. You have to be the stupidest person to walk in here and say, ‘I hope you are listening because this is what the people in the bush want’. No, they do not. I am sorry, the line still stands. People do not change their words overnight.
There are many problems in Tennant Creek. I have been there a dozen times. I know half of the community of Tennant Creek. I have stayed there, I have attended funerals, ceremonies, you name it. It is the same with Elliott. I have been all the way down to Alice Springs.
The people want a government to represent their best interests and listen to them. All I ever saw from the former Labor government was it came up with initiatives and policies, threw them out there and expected the people to run with them. You were not listening to the people on the ground, to what they really want. The smallest thing counts and goes a long way. That is where you failed.
You failed us again to think we would rack up another credit card to keep the Police Beats going.
Madam Speaker I would love to, seriously; we would all love to. We do not have the money to do it, member for Casuarina, because you left us in that situation.
Mr VATSKALIS (Casuarina): Madam Speaker, it is a very interesting discussion and we can see the difference between the urban people and the people in remote communities. I support the Police Beats because I have seen the problems in my electorate. There were immense problems every day. People were afraid to go to the shopping centres.
It was an initiative of our government with the support of the then Police Commissioner and police officers who accepted that the presence of police in the shopping centre was a way to deter the antisocial behaviour taking place. And it worked. It worked very well in Casuarina and I am very pleased to hear it worked very well in Katherine because I am well aware what the problems in Katherine were.
The member for Katherine said, ‘No, we do not support the Police Beats. Close all of them but leave Katherine alone.’ Yes, it might be a good idea for your electorate, but the reality is the problems you have in Katherine were in Karama, Nightcliff, and Casuarina. The situation in Casuarina has improved enormously. I do not accept the argument that the Police Beats in shopping centres take away the resources from the main police stations. That can be arranged. You can utilise them as training grounds. You can put police who are studying in the training centre, and police who have recently graduated. This is the way to be trained, to cut their teeth, then they can be promoted to other areas. We do that with other professions such as doctors, nurses, and teachers. You cannot argue that you cannot put a teacher in a small school because it takes teachers from the big schools and affects the roster. If there is a will there is a way.
As for the bush members, I understand the problems they face with alcohol. I know the problems with alcohol, and I will mention some when I respond to the Minister for Health’s statement on alcohol. We all think Territorians drink too much. Some Territorians drink to extremes which threatens their lives and their families’ lives, and something has to be done about it. The difference between us is we believe this is the way to go; the government believes that is the best way to go. We will debate which way is the best.
Madam Speaker, I thank everyone for their contribution.
Motion negatived.
MOTION
Condemnation of Prime Minister by the Legislative Assembly
Mr KURRUPUWU (Arafura): Madam Speaker, I move that the Assembly condemn Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and his federal Labor government for:
misleading the people of Tiwi Islands and breaking their promise not to introduce a carbon tax
The Tiwi are trying very hard to break out of the cycle of welfare dependence which has stunted opportunities and growth for my people. Our future, like the future of other Aboriginal communities in the great electorate of Arafura and the Northern Territory is in economic enterprise, training, and employment in real jobs. We see economic development with cultural integrity to be the way of the future for our people.
The previous government in the Northern Territory acted as a road block to many of our economic ideas to broaden our strength and capacity. This is why the Tiwi have put such effort into building a major forestry resource on our land. From this timber plantation, owned 100% by Tiwi, it is expected that around 300 000 tonne of chips per annum will be available for export to Asia.
In addition, the Tiwi Islands are rich in minerals such as rutile and zircon. There is a large market for these minerals in Asia as well. The port will provide us with the means to export valuable products to Asia. These markets are the most rapidly growing economies in the world. The port will also be a major source of real jobs and real income for Tiwi people. It is expected that the port will lead to up to 350 new job opportunities for Tiwi people in marine and shipping.
Port Melville is also a shining symbol of what can be achieved through a shared vision and partnerships and a real appreciation of abilities of our people. As Tony Abbott has pointed out, Kevin Rudd is in fact keeping the carbon tax though it is going from a fixed to a floating price. According to Mr Abbot, it is likely to reach a price of $30 a tonne by 2020. While he has declared he would terminate the carbon tax one year earlier and introduce an emission trading scheme, the move has been blasted by Tony Abbott as a one-year fiddle that would not stop the carbon tax price rising across time, regardless of the name of the scheme.
This will have a major impact on new enterprise development on the Tiwi Islands. It can be expected to have a service negative effect on our attempt to build real enterprise and real jobs for Tiwi people, as well as jobs for all Territorians. The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry has also demanded the carbon price be scrapped while the Business Council of Australia lashed out at the ‘flawed design’ of the ETS:
said BCA Chief Executive, Jennifer Westcott.
A recent audit by the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry revealed that 82% of businesses report the carbon tax has reduced profits – a year since the scheme was introduced. While higher energy bills are the biggest expense, the carbon tax has also added to rising packaging, transport, and other expenses.
One food processing firm said the carbon tax added nearly $5m to operating expenses, including $500 000 in packaging and $240 000 in freight and storage fees.
Murray Goulburn, Australia’s largest dairy firm, say the carbon tax has added $14m to its annual expenses for the year to 30 June.
High energy bills remain the biggest cost burden for manufacturing, with nearly 50% of those firms surveyed reporting electricity bills have jumped 15% or more.
This tax is likely to have a major impact on industries important to the Tiwi and to all Territorian people. This includes the sectors of mining, oil and gas, transport, and building and construction. If the carbon tax was to apply to heavy transport industry from 1 July 2014, it would amount to $100m, rising to $750m by 2020.
As the Territory is heavily dependent on road transport, such a huge cost increase would be bound to be passed on to households and individual consumers. Recent CPI figures confirmed the devastating impact of Labor’s carbon tax on household budgets. Under Labor, the price of essentials such as electricity, gas, and health services continue to go up and up.
The costs of the carbon tax continue to flow through to many goods and services we use in the Territory every day, from power to food and groceries. To survive, businesses will have to pass the increased costs of carbon tax on to Territorians. Experts now admit that carbon tax increases, overall, the cost of living in countries that adopt it.
Managing Director of Rochford Capital, Thomas Averill, said:
and that:
This puts Tiwi Islanders and all Territorians at risk, as well as further increasing the cost of living for Territory families and individuals.
Madam Speaker, this is why we need to abolish the carbon tax so everyone’s costs can be reduced and employment and wages can increase for Tiwi and all Territorians. This is the policy of the Coalition and the policy that will clearly best benefit Tiwi and Territory businesses and families.
Mr McCARTHY (Barkly): Madam Speaker, it is a privilege to debate the member for Arafura who has brought this motion to the House. I start by saying I cannot agree with it. You know why? It is no news to the member for Arafura that I support Kevin Rudd and do not trust Tony Abbott. That is the nature of the political debate.
However, let us debate the price on carbon because it is a privilege to debate an elder and a representative from the Tiwi Islands. That is what being a politician and an MLA is all about.
I want to take this debate, member for Arafura, to the carbon economy. I did not grow up on the Tiwi Islands and I have visited there only once. I know a few Tiwi people. I grew up in Sydney. On the south coast of New South Wales is a place called Port Kembla. It has a major steelworks. As a kid, I studied it at school, we went on excursions there, and I watched that steel works grow and prosper. I then started to understand the environmental impacts.
When I started to study the Industrial Revolution and put together this type of development on a global scale, I then started to enter into the research around climate change. I started to understand there is a bigger picture about this issue and places like Port Kembla had to be balanced out. Scientists knew more, we learned more about our planet, we understood more about the constraints around our environment and ecology and biodiversity, and we then discovered we have to start planning and implementing initiatives to address the natural disasters, the change in our climate, the influences on our planet as the population grows and our society industrialises, and urban areas increase and population increases accordingly.
This led me to the next era, so to speak, in my life where I started to look at the carbon economy. Member for Arafura, I did not take it as a simple ‘ban the carbon tax’, I took it on as, ‘How can I use this in the area where I live and with the people I work with?’ I have conversations with Indigenous people all the time now about the carbon economy.
I get back to Kevin Rudd, because that is the essence of your motion. If he is fortunate enough to be elected, Kevin Rudd will move very quickly into a carbon emissions trading scheme. There are many examples of policy development. That is what good policy is all about. It is like your mandatory alcohol rehabilitation policy; it will have to be massaged, developed, reviewed and, out of the 44 amendments we went through late that night - it was getting close to 1.15 am when the amendment went through that the Banned Drinker Register, and the technology to administer it, is still in the legislation. It was preserved in the legislation. I am sure that will resurface under the Country Liberals.
Let us get back to Kevin Rudd, but, importantly, to a carbon economy. I used to live in a block 12 500 km, probably close to the size of the Tiwi Islands, which is the Waanyi/Garawa Aboriginal Land Trust. It is pristine country, beautiful Mitchell grass plains to the south, sandstone escarpments, the China wall-like Arnhem Land in the northwest, incredible gorges and the Nicholson River in the northeast. It was a pristine block. I started three outstation schools there. I lived in that area for four years and love to go back to visit.
The outstations really struggled: so remote, so many constraints, so many challenges. I will never forget, Christopher Daylight used to say, ‘Gerry, we have to get out of here in the Wet because how many pigs and catfish can you eat?’ I tended to agree with Christopher so we would all get out in the Wet and go back in the Dry. We had an alternative school timetable, two solar powered schools and, at the other one, we camped under a tree. There were many amazing things going on.
However, for one reason or another, those outstations did not become self-sustaining and became transient places. They are beautiful places. I grew a couple of my kids up there in the bush. Now I am still dealing with the same constituents and telling the story I am telling here tonight, member for Arafura, in relation to the debate about the carbon economy. What I say to the people of the Waanyi/Garawa land trust at Nicholson River is we have to be creative, make money, get jobs, and we can get this through a carbon economy. We can have big business pay into a special fund which we can access and develop a range of programs such as fire abatement programs. We can develop programs on country. This is a whole new way of doing business without government handouts.
I say to people, ‘Let us get away from government handouts. Let us research this carbon economy and see the opportunities coming our way.’ Member for Arafura, you can do the same thing on the Tiwi Islands because this is a creative way forward. This is what the member for Namatjira talked about: the dripping tap of government welfare. Let us turn the tap on, as the member for Namatjira said, but let us use big business to do it. Let us use the big polluters like the steelworks at Port Kembla to pay their fair share. We are going to say to them, ‘We are not going to go down that traditional road of taxation, we are going down a new road where you will have to invest in the carbon economy. There are some great people in the Northern Territory, the Waanyi/Garawa people, who want you to invest in their economy, which will create jobs that benefit those people, their children, and their grandchildren, staying on country, having good jobs that look after country and, at the same time, generate an economy.’
That is what you have been talking about in this motion; it is about economic impacts. Let us talk about the economic impacts of making the carbon economy work for us. There are many opportunities and good examples. Member for Arafura, in your electorate there is the West Arnhem Land Fire Abatement Project. They are already accepting significant cash from big business, and have converted that money into ranger and fire abatement programs.
Not only have they converted that money into jobs, into caring for country, they have converted it into something the whole world wants to learn about: carbon data research. The whole world needs to know how to manage carbon in the atmosphere, the soil and in our water.
In the West Arnhem fire abatement program and the ranger programs associated with that in the electorate of Arafura, they can teach you very valuable lessons and show you directly the benefits and the connections to the carbon economy. They are world leaders, in an Australian example, in this new global enterprise. The carbon data research is where scientists want to understand the ecology around carbon and carbon emissions.
There was another wonderful example the member for Port Darwin might be interested in. I hope he follows up. That is to do with Mataranka Station and Charles Darwin University. I was trying to get some traction into a possible arrangement where prisoners could go to Mataranka Station, set up a good camp and clean the joint up. When I say clean the joint up, I mean feral animals, weed control, improve fencing and basically establish a research area of traditional country by getting rid of all those western influences that have cluttered and contaminated pristine Aboriginal country. You only do that with a very intensive labour force. It is like stick picking, you really need to do it the hard way to get it done.
What the university is interested in, and the members for Arafura and Port Darwin might be interested in, is there is significant international money, people who want to invest in the university to have a research patch, a designated scientific research study area, and they are willing to pay big dollars. This is not only trying to get the prisoners involved, it is also trying to get carbon data research done and being inclusive of Aboriginal people because, as you know, the prison population is 82% Aboriginal. It is also about getting those people experienced in carbon data research so they can go home and spread that word. They could be Waanyi/Garawa people and could come back to the Nicholson and talk directly about their experience working in a globally significant project to set up a research area, or they could translate that into Caring for Country, ranger, and fire abatement programs which are available in the electorate of Arafura.
The member for Arafura has just gone down this political road. In the lead-up to an election I can understand where that is coming from, but do not underestimate how important this debate is that you brought to this House. I can see on the Tiwis there are many opportunities to tap into this carbon economy.
When I go back to my analogy of the cake, you should be at that caucus table and banging on those Cabinet minister’s doors talking about resourcing the Tiwi Islands and the electorate of Arafura. You will have some new creative ideas when you start to look at the positive side of the debate around carbon emissions and the carbon economy. The Country Liberal Party government might be interested in some new creative approaches to creating employment in regional and remote areas by tapping into this. That would be a great partnership that could benefit the whole of the Territory, and as we say, all Territorians, not just a select few.
Member for Arafura, I want to drive the message home that there are great opportunities which you should explore. In the political side of this debate, ask your mate Tony Abbott about his plans. From where I sit, and what I look at, he is ducking under cover. He is not really telling us the full story, whereas Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has put it out there. He has reviewed a major policy, he is making changes, and is turning that into a carbon emissions trading scheme with all the opportunities that will go with it.
Member for Arafura, it is good to see you are supporting the Liberals in the upcoming election. However, I am very nervous and I put it out there in this debate because you brought it on. I do not trust Tony Abbott, Nigel Scullion, or Mal Brough. I do not trust them because they do not have a big ‘L’ on their back, they have a big ‘I’ on their back, and that stands for the intervention.
I do not believe their policy about closing the gap and Indigenous community development is anywhere near the Stronger Futures package that has been outlined, costed, and locked in. The Stronger Futures package is what development is all about; it is a plan to go forward. It is costed and there are significant investments locked in right across the Northern Territory. It has a 10-year plan, whereas the other guys are saying, ‘Mal Brough is coming back, Nigel has all these ideas, and Tony’s going to go walkabout.’ They are really carping on about all this stuff, but I do not trust them or believe in them. I have watched them and studied them.
In the motion you brought forward there were more promises around their terminology of carbon tax. There was no talk about all the opportunities in the new carbon economy, the new global initiative we are all walking towards.
It is not just us, China is involved. My wife travels to China and she has this dialogue with Chinese people. We have friends in Tennant Creek who are from China, and we have this dialogue regularly. It is amazing that the super power of China is also talking about the carbon economy, the global significance of working together in this economy and the new opportunities it will present.
They have massive challenges that are hard to believe, but they are entering this space with due diligence and are working towards addressing their own issues ecologically and climatically, that relate socially and culturally. It is the way the world is moving. It is the glass half empty or the glass half full question.
I look at it as an opportunity, and I do not trust Tony Abbott and his rhetoric, his slogans, and his promises. I think it is full of holes and, therefore, I do not support this motion. As I said, it is good to debate it.
The member for Arafura spoke in this motion about the disadvantages he sees. You talked about transport. Let us talk about transport and go back to a very local issue on transport. What has happened with the Tiwi ferry? I remember trying hard to ensure the Tiwi ferry ran. I used the Tiwi ferry earlier this year on a trip to the Tiwi Islands, but I have not heard anything about it since.
It did not come out in estimates because the Chief Minister reckoned we all squibbed it and went home. That is not true; that is being, once again, careless with the truth. There was no way I wanted to have an estimates process with the Darwin Port Corporation officials at 5 am; that was ridiculous. But we have been down that road and debated that, and the government has its position and the opposition has its position. However, the reality is I did not get to talk about all these important transport issues, and the Tiwi ferry was one of them.
The barge landings was another. Member for Arafura, you have worked hard. You got a slice of cake because your barge landing is still on the pad. As I travelled through the member for Arnhem’s electorate extensively over the last two weeks, there were barge landings that had dropped off the pad. When I was on Groote Eylandt with the Labor Caucus at Umbakumba, walking back and forth on the barge landing talking to locals about it and the infrastructure and nature of that transport, they were able to show me improvements they needed and wanted. It was local knowledge transferring to a local member. I was unfortunate, in my position, to say, ‘I do not have access to the cheque book, but I can make the parliament and the government aware of this’.
If we want to talk about transport, you can focus in this motion on the disadvantages you perceive about this one liner that you want to use politically. I applaud your strategy for raising the bar and being political in the lead-up to the election. However, spin that story back to, ‘Hey, what has my mob got? What am I getting out of this? What are my colleagues getting out of this? More importantly, as an elder in the Northern Territory Aboriginal community, what are my countrymen getting out of this?’ As I said, that barge landing story was very unfortunate.
I have also lost an airstrip in the Barkly, if you want to try to get me a thicker slice of cake please. The airstrip at Canteen Creek we fought so hard for was wiped off the pad.
Transport is a very important area for the bush, and you have raised it. You must ask questions, and one of the first questions is what is happening to that Tiwi ferry? What are the plans for it? What is the budget appropriation in forward years for that?
I enjoyed your speech the other day about the port. The port is an opportunity for real economic driver on the Tiwis. Again, I encourage you to look at the carbon economy and how resourcing can cross over into supporting important infrastructure development. The port, as you have educated me, is very important in the opportunities it presents in creating projects and employment on the Tiwis in sand mining, rutile, ilmenite and zircon, and the forestry projects. These are very real economic drivers.
However, member for Arafura, you have to ask the Minister for Infrastructure why the Tiwi Shire did not feature in the $30m allocated for local government roads. We asked this question and I will continue to ask this question. On checking my notes, the shires that missed out were the Tiwi Shire and the West Arnhem Shire. The member for Arnhem will be interested in that. The West Arnhem Shire missed out and I think the East Arnhem Shire also missed out ...
Ms Walker: No, it was the West Arnhem Shire.
Mr McCARTHY: I also asked about Litchfield and Coomalie and those little areas. However, $30m of forward estimates was appropriated by the Liberals and those shires missed out. Yours is in the middle of that economic debate because you know, and I know – I looked at your port - you need roads infrastructure supporting maritime infrastructure, supported by rail infrastructure in regard to the mainland and the port of Darwin. It all interconnects. It is so important. Ask that question. That is a real economic answer you need.
In regard to this motion, you are looking at the disadvantages. I also encourage you to look at the advantages, which are your share of that $30m allocated to local government roads. As an opposition, we do not knock that, we support that. However, we are disappointed to see you miss out. We are disappointed to see the Tiwi miss out. You have to knock on the door of the Minister for Infrastructure and ask him, ‘What does it mean?’ He might have to cut his cake up a bit thinner, but he has to ensure he delivers for all those shires.
We thought $30m could be allocated across all the shires, but it was not. You missed out, so you really need to ask that question. Do not take the answer about the projected debt and the ya ya that 12 months into government they are still banging on about. It is about making things work now, rolling up the sleeves, and getting on with the job.
I have to take it because I am on this side, member for Arafura, but you do not. You have a key to the fifth floor. Bang on that fellow’s door and ask him to explain it to you properly, and tell him to drop off that little one liner. Then, maybe have a discussion about the carbon economy. What was that fellow from Barkly talking about? I am sure the Tiwi would be interested, just like the Waanyi/Garawa are interested, and many Australians are interested. People in our country want to move their thinking to the future and the opportunities of creating a carbon economy.
When we have natural disasters like the Queensland floods - which require governments to invest an enormous amount of money to repair infrastructure - bushfires, droughts and - if we have another Category 5 cyclone come through the middle of this town, governments will need to have ready access to funding to save people’s lives, repair infrastructure and get society functioning again. That is another important story about the carbon economy. As we move into the future, one only has to watch the news and global events to see the challenges governments are faced with when we have massive natural disasters. These large-scale natural disasters are about sharing the load.
What is the CLP’s catchcry about heavy lifting? BHP and the Port Kembla steelworks should do their share of the heavy lifting; there is no doubt about it. I believe they are in the frame of mind to do it. However, if they have Tony Abbott who wants to let them off the hook, or wants to play politics, then we are in a bad place ...
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Barkly, it is now 9 pm. Do you wish to reserve your comments for a later time?
Mr McCARTHY: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Debate adjourned.
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I move that the Assembly do now adjourn.
Mr GUNNER (Fannie Bay): Madam Speaker, Grandad’s grandad on his mum’s side, Charles Joseph Foster, was born in England, moved to the US and gained employment as a locomotive driver in Mexico. This is where he met and married Lily, a woman of French blood well mixed with Mexican. They lived beneath the tallest mountain in Mexico, known to the Aztecs as Citlalteptl, the star mountain, but more commonly, and boringly, as Pico De Orizaba.
When Lily passed, my Great-Great-Grandad left Mexico and moved to Australia with his three children. Here he settled in Port Augusta and worked with the Commonwealth Railways. He re-married and raised another family. His love of his new country must have been great because he enlisted in the Australian Imperial Forces as a Sergeant and embarked on the HMAT Ascanius on 11 May.
My Great-Granddad was born Ernest John Gunner of a Welsh father and an English mother. His Welsh voice did not make it to our generation. My Great-Grandmother was Marguerite Foster. She and Ern married on 20 April 1927 in Adelaide, and Granddad was born 31 July 1930 with a brother, David, following three years later:
Marguerite, Peter and David spent the 1930s travelling and looking for work. They subsisted on food vouchers - stale bread and meat that was turning - and nights on the ground were just a challenge to overcome. Often Marguerite’s work was fruit picking or stripping hops. Granddad got his first job putting together damper and salt beef lunches for the earnings of one shilling for four weeks, which was promptly borrowed and never repaid.
David was walking now, so he spent most of his day in a sugar bag, holes cut out for legs, and suspended from a meat hook. From here, Marguerite’s work became such that Granddad and David stayed with friends on a farm called Tally Ho, to a convent, to a public school, to Aunty this or Aunty that.
Aunty Rose taught Granddad how to swear, though at the time he did not realise quite the value of the colour he was learning. Nana Green was, of course, not his Nana but considered much better than his actual Nana who only sent the odd Christmas card from England.
There was plenty of time for adventures and dramas and I have skipped many already, but his mechanical experiments, in company with brother, David, speak to Granddad’s later life’s work:
David passed in the early 1960s.
My Grandfather’s love for a story was hereditary. Marguerite wrote two stories that were published by the Smiths Weekly. After receiving a small cheque she wrote on and off for the rest of her life without ever being published again. It is my great fortune that she had a passion for writing though, as she joined a writer’s club, and it was at one of these that she met a traveller who sold the Territory as a place of opportunity for willing workers. Seeds sown, the three of them were soon standing in the pitch black outside the train station in Alice.
Marguerite was soon employed as a cook by the Underdowns. A year later, the three of them moved to Tennant where she worked on the Joker Mine, 12 miles but several hours from Tennant:
Mr VOWLES (Johnston): Madam Speaker, I wish tonight to talk about a recent announcement by the missing minister, the member for Greatorex, and a four-year deal for the NRL.
The agreement with the Parramatta Eels is valued at $4m over four years, and includes the trial matches and an NRL match. While I welcome the Parramatta Eels to the Territory, I am very concerned about how much this is costing the Territory taxpayer.
Recently, the acting CEO of Parramatta said on radio that the deal did not include airfares and accommodation. Under my estimates in my previous experience in NRL negotiations, in one of my previous employments, I believe this is going to cost taxpayers and extra $1m. So I call on the Minister for Sport and Major Events, the member for Greatorex, to give us a more detail.
Not only is the $4m over four years concerning, what I want more information about is how much is it costing for the match day management. Normally there is a lot of cost involved in the match day preparation - the cost of the referees, the match day officials, transport and accommodation for these officials as well.
To put it in context, the last deal we had with the NRL for the trial match, the former Northern Territory government paid $285 000. That is right, $285 000 for an NRL match in the Northern Territory, in Darwin, hugely popular, hugely successful.
Now we have a recent announcement that it is $500 000 per game. What I want the minister to do is come out and give me and Territorians more information on the extra costs. What are the exact costs? What is the final cost? What is being covered by the taxpayer? What is being covered by the NRL? And the exact amount taxpayers are going to pay for this match.
As I said, I welcome Parramatta but, as an opposition spokesperson on sport, I am concerned about how much this is costing Territory taxpayers.
What could $4m do? Something comes to my mind straightaway - it could have paid for the Arafura Games. The Arafura Games were cancelled. This is an event that brings in over $10.5m into the economy. $10.5m, and they cancelled. It is a wonderful event, it gets everyone involved: athletes, managers, coaches, support staff, Territorians coming to watch, businesses and, obviously, tourism benefits greatly. Every business in the Northern Territory, and specifically Darwin, benefits from the Arafura Games. This deal of $4m could easily have paid for the Arafura Games.
I have heard the minister for Sport, the member for Greatorex, I have heard the Chief Minister, the member for Braitling, especially the Chief Minister, many times talk about the games, that they are not cancelled, but are deferred. I call on the Chief Minister, I call on the Minister for Sport and Recreation, the minister for Major Events, the member for Greatorex, to come out and tell us when these games are going to happen. How much is it going to cost? Where will it be? How much work is being done on so-called bringing back the Arafura Games? At the moment that is all we are hearing, but I want to hear more detail about what has been done, and Territorians want to know when the games are going to be held. What are the new games? What is this new and improved focus on our Asian partners deal going to contain? And what is it going to look like?
When I talk about $500 000 per match for a trial game in Alice Springs, and a NRL match in Darwin, it takes me back to the $285 000 for our last NRL Games. Now we are paying $500 000.
Then we had $300 000 which went to a golf club that the Chief Minister and the member for Greatorex are members of. It is the same amount, $300 000, for the deal with the Brumbies who finished second in the Super 15’s Finals competition this year. That is how much that deal cost, and it was scrapped, tearing the heart out of rugby union fans in the Northern Territory, and all sports fans. To see top class sport of any nature in the Northern Territory is hard to come by, and you have to pay for that. $300 000 for the Brumbies to play up here against another Super 15 in a trial match every year was a great deal.
But then to say that is no bang for your buck and, in your so-called tough economic times with massive debt, you then give $300 000 to your golf club whilst scrapping the same amount to get rid of a Super 15 Rugby Trial Match every year does not add up. We know it stinks and it will continue to stink because it is wrong.
I go back to $500 000 per match, $285 000 for the last deal. I call on the minister to come out and tell me and Territorians are there any extra costs. What are they? What is the exact total cost? I know there has got to be more to the deal, and I want to know the exact amount on behalf of all Territorians.
Ms WALKER (Nhulunbuy): Madam Speaker, I was really pleased last month to bump into a former long-time Nhulunbuy resident, John Zachravisias. Zac as he is better known because it is much shorter than Zachravisias, was a maths teacher at Nhulunbuy High School when I started teaching there in 1990, and I believe he had been there at least a few years before me, and he certainly stayed on long after I had left and served as the Deputy Principal at the school until he retired in 2012. He would have guided an entire generation of Nhulunbuy kids along the path to adulthood during his years at the school. No doubt many of those former students are now sending their own kids to Nhulunbuy High School.
Zac and his wife, Liz, may have left Nhulunbuy to enjoy retirement in Cairns, but he certainly has not cut ties with the Northern Territory. He was back in town in order to lead a NORFORCE Patrol to the Islands off Arnhem Land. And, yes, he managed to find time for a round of golf with my husband, when I was able to catch up with him and hear the latest news from him and Liz.
John is a sergeant with NORFORCE and I understand the soldiers call him Sergeant Zac. Before the patrol left Nhulunbuy on 14 July, Zac was presented with the Operational Service Medal Border Patrol in recognition of his service on Operation Resolute. This is the Australian Defence Force’s contribution to the protection of Australia’s borders and offshore maritime interests.
Well done, Zac, and well deserved, because I know, and our community knows, how many years of dedicated service you have put into NORFORCE over the years. He has been patrolling with NORFORCE for 25 years.
In the local paper which reported this Award, Zac said, and I quote:
I know that to be true. Zac has been part of a local group of keen bushwalkers over the years who has headed off on some incredible walks around Arnhem Land, and other parts of the Northern Territory. I cannot say too much about it other than it is akin to secret men’s business, but he is a mad keen bushwalker and part of the building of those bushwalking skills and love of being out in the bush has come from the time he spent with NORFORCE.
Madam Speaker, I was also very pleased to meet Major Tim Robinson, the new officer commanding the NORFORCE Arnhem Squadron based in Nhulunbuy, and his wife, Katherine. Tim kindly made an appointment to come and see me and introduce himself just prior to Anzac Day. I always love it when people drop by and let me know they have arrived in town. I always enjoy having a chat with people, finding out where they are from and who they are.
It is a small world; both Tim and his wife have connections to Gove through their families. For them it is a little like coming home for both of them. Tim and Katherine are enjoying their time in Nhulunbuy and the region, and the new work and new challenges Tim has with NORFORCE.
I would like to add that last month NORFORCE was responsible for some priceless publicity for the Northern Territory, all around the world. One of Australia’s finest photographers, David Gray, from Reuters, spent a week with NORFOCRE on patrol to the English Company Islands which sit just off the coast to the northwest of Nhulunbuy.
Mr Gray joined a patrol which travelled through the islands in two zodiacs setting up observation posts and generally looking for signs of any illegal or any unusual activity on the islands. Mr Gray took a series of stunning photographs of young Territorian soldiers: Lance Corporal Vinnie Rami from Numbulwar, Lance Corporal Danny Daniels from Ngukurr, Private Jonah Thinglere from Ngukurr, and Drew Perry from Katherine. These photographs have since been published in some of the world’s biggest newspapers, including the New York Times and the Chicago Tribune in the US, The Guardian and The Telegraph in the UK, and Le Temps and Paris Match magazines in France.
The accompanying story has been translated into French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Hungarian, Russian, Latvian, Indonesian and Hebrew. It is probably in Chinese and Japanese too, but they do not come up when I Google NORFORCE. The story and photos were run on ABC and in the Sydney Morning Herald as well as by newspapers in India, Malta, Malaysia, Brunei and Brazil. That is pretty incredible recognition of NORFORCE and our home-grown army recruits. Well done to the Australian Army and well done to NORFORCE because you cannot buy that type of publicity.
It is now 32 years since Northwest Mobile Force was formed to establish a military presence in the remote regions of Northern Australia. Its 600 soldiers do a fantastic job patrolling across the Northern Territory and the Kimberley. The unit employs around 250 men and women from remote communities, making it one of the largest employers of Indigenous workers in the region. What a fantastic outcome that is for our people who live along the coastline in remote communities and possess some of the inherent skills of not only knowing their country, how to live on their country, and also looking out for signs of things not right and out of place. This is why, back in 1930s, one of the first group of troops was put together under Donald Thomson - the reconnaissance group that worked off the coast of Yirrkala and did incredible work.
It employs around 250 men and women from remote communities, one of the largest employers of Indigenous workers in the region. It also includes 540 reservists, of whom around half are Indigenous men and women from our remote communities who bring into the Australian Army the traditional knowledge and networks they possess.
I would like to congratulate the NORFORCE Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel Paul O’Donnell, and all his soldiers; and to Vinnie, Danny, Jonah, Drew, all the patrolmen and all the squadrons, well done to all of you! You are fantastic role models to people in your community, to your family and friends, and to your children. You are doing a tremendous job sharing your knowledge and skills and protecting our country.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, I would like to say a few words about part of the trip I did recently from Mataranka toWollogorang Station which was mainly to look at a number of mines which I will probably report on later. To visit those mines you have to travel along the Roper Highway, down the Nathan River Road, along the Carpentaria Highway, then – I am trying to think of the proper name of the Savannah Way to the Queensland border. It has a name, but it escapes me at the moment.
I thought I would let people know about a wonderful place I visited. It is not in Limmen National Park - of course, I would like to talk about the national park as well - it is just outside. It is called Lorella Springs Wilderness Camping and Caravan Park. It was originally part of what was called Nathan River Station many years ago. That station was divided up by the Lands department in 1969, and one half of it was called Rosie Creek. The owners cannot tell me how, but it ended up with the name Lorella Springs Station.
It is run by a gentleman, Rhett Walker, and his family. Rhett spent some of his time in my electorate; he lived in Howard River Park. It probably was not until I booked into the caravan park that I realised I knew him, and he knew me.
What is special about this place is it is off the beaten track, and he expressed to me when I was down there that the conditions of the roads at the moment are appalling and he believes that is part of the reason why numbers are down this year. If you can make the effort and your car is sturdy enough, please go down there if you want to get away from it all. It is not 5-star accommodation, although I stayed in a cabin which, for that part of the world, probably was 5-star; it was very comfortable and had satellite TV. It is for people who want to get out and camp there.
What is special about it is the owners have opened up the area with four-wheel drive tracks and you can visit so many different sites. I was only there for one full day and I only went to one place called Nanna’s Retreat which is a beautiful waterhole, safe from crocodiles. You have to travel a reasonable distance to get there and walk up into the escarpment, but the range of plants, the scenery, the rock formations, the caves and the beautiful water when you get there, and isolated, made it a wonderful place to visit. That was only one site I had time to go to. I went with a couple of locals so we both did not get lost and had a very enjoyable day.
You can travel out to the coast if you want to go fishing. You can visit a range of waterholes, and there is one that has temperatures of around 50C; it is truly a hot spring. If you are staying at the main camp there is hot springs there. One of the interesting things is when you have a shower in the cabins you only have one tap because the water comes from the springs, and that is all you need.
As I said, the family runs the facility. They have a safari tent there if you want to go safari style, or you bring your own camping equipment and camp on the grass. You can get great meals. You have to be there at 6 pm otherwise you miss out, but if you want a good steak, chips and vegies, you will certainly get it there. Also, there is a bar and a happy hour.
It is one of those places where you can spend weeks if you wanted to because there is so much to look at. It is not open the whole year round, obviously, because when the Wet Season comes most of the tracks would be impassable. But, if you wanted to go somewhere to get away from it all, if you enjoy nature - I took lots of photographs of plants which I have sent off to a herbarium. I have a good friend there, Glenn Wightman, who actually named them all in about five minutes. I thought I had some plants that were special.
I did come across a plant called Grevillea pungens. I thought it was a Grevillea. It is a shrub about two metres high but it is extremely prickly; it has a very prickly, sharp leaf and you certainly would not want to run through it in a hurry; you would have quite a few scratches on you. But I found out it was quite common in that part of the Territory, up into Northeast Arnhem Land.
If you are a bird watcher, if you love looking at native plants, or if you just like to go for a swim and get away from it all, then I recommend people go to Lorella Springs. I certainly enjoyed my one day there, and I certainly hope to go back and spend a bit more time there.
I should not forget another fishing camp there. The Limmen Bight Fishing Camp. It is not the flashiest place in the world. It is on the beautiful Limmen River; I did not realise how beautiful that river is until I went down there. It is obviously part of an old cattle station; there are some old yards there.
I met Steve and Dave Barnett. I believe Dave works with the local sea rangers down there. He was doing some maintenance work on his boat trailer, and there were people camped there as well. They also had a problem where there was very little maintenance on the road and they felt that that was affecting the business in their area.
I highlight the fact that we sometimes take visitors to places which are fairly well known – Litchfield National Park and Kakadu - but there are some really wonderful places in the Northern Territory that do not get a mention that often. I must admit I like it because they are not flash. I feel like the resort has not been put on as a show. It is there for you to enjoy as a genuine piece of the Northern Territory. The advantage of both of these places is you can go and visit the Limmen National Park.
I did not get enough time to do that because my object was to visit a series of mines on the way down, but I did stop at the Southern Lost City, the one that is more accessible near the Nathan River Ranger Station. I went out there early in the morning and it was just beautiful. Again, I need to spend some more time there. There is a walking trail there of a couple of kilometres. I just did not have the time to do it justice.
There is another portion of the Lost City which Rhett Walker, the owner of Lorella Springs, says he knew when he was a kid because he had been brought up in that area. I am not saying he found it, because I am sure Aboriginal people knew about it long before we did, but it is now part of the national park. You have to get a key to go there from the ranger. Unfortunately, the ranger when I spoke to them at Tomato Island, the day I wanted to visit there, was his day off, so I could not get a key. If you want a four-wheel drive trip, they tell me it takes all day to about 34 km; that is what I call four-wheel drive!
Next time I am down, I intend to go and have a look at the Western Lost City. These are the areas we need to open up for regional development so people can get opportunities locally, to gain employment in these areas. It will not happen unless we actually improve some of the infrastructure. People are not going to go up the Nathan River Road if it is full of bull dust and corrugations. Much of that is to do with the mining business that is happening at the moment. But, if we are to develop those areas, then we have to put money into things like improving the roads.
Caravaners talk to one another and they might come all the way from Queensland up to Borroloola and the word will get around - what is the road like to Roper Bar? They will say it is terrible, so they will go straight through to the Stuart Highway.
I thought I would give a brief summary of what I think is a really great part of the Northern Territory, and recommend it to people. Yes, you might need a four-wheel drive, but I would say go out there, take the risk. You will love it, and you will certainly be telling other people around Australia to go and visit there as well.
Mr McCARTHY (Barkly): Madam Speaker, the Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education conferring academic awards on Barkly students successfully completing studies in education, children’s services, and business underpins community development in the Northern Territory.
I was honoured to attend the 2013 Barkly Graduation Ceremony, witnessing Batchelor Institute students receiving academic awards, some of whom I enrolled in preschool, others I worked alongside in remote schools.
One graduating teacher in education attended school at Robinson River in a tent on the riverbank, completed secondary school boarding in Alice Springs, works as an assistant teacher, undergoes tertiary study, and raises a family. This exceptional story of commitment to family and community was depicted many times by remote students from the Barkly completing nationally accredited academic awards, presenting as great role models, facilitating education for others.
Reflecting on 30 years in Barkly education, I now advise graduating students and teachers that, in my opinion, times have never been tougher with significant distractions working against school and community educational outcomes. The days of the silver bullets, where caravans were considered appropriate education infrastructure for Aborigines, were challenging. However, the CLP government’s policy of not providing secondary schools in the bush had a generational impact on scores of students not continuing their education.
The tough times I refer to also relate to the loss of traditional elders reinforcing cultural protocols and discipline, and major influences of alcohol, drugs, media and pop culture on families and young people presenting compelling antisocial elements working against school attendance, engagement and participation.
Poor school attendance linked to family and community dysfunction is often attributed to failing government policies not providing adequate resources. However, facilitating positive social and culture change relies on people engaging with the system. I view Batchelor Institute graduating students as the important catalyst for change, adding a critical mass of empowered individuals and educators, swinging the pendulum back towards social and cultural order, education, employment and community development.
When I commenced teaching in Barkly, I viewed my role as multifaceted yet, essentially, working myself into unemployment as Aboriginal people progressed through the education system taking jobs in the school community, and I am proud to witness this process on track.
Governments play an integral role in supporting educational outcomes, providing appropriate school infrastructure, teachers, programs and support services. However, family responsibility for supporting and engaging their children remains the foundation stone for a good education.
Government policy guides the process for allocating taxpayer funds. I view investment in education as critical for addressing post-colonial challenges and delivering real community development, hence the need for the CLP to sign the Australian government better schools funding deal.
I congratulate Batchelor Institute and the Department of Education and Children’s Services’ staff supporting higher education students in Barkly, yet condemn the CLP government education budget cuts that scrapped the four Department of Education and Children’s Services’ positions in Tennant Creek, directly supporting Batchelor Institute tertiary students.
Madam Speaker, it was a group of just over 30 students that graduated at the Battery Hill Mining Centre in Tennant Creek, and there were a number of names on the program that were not able to attend because of their life in remote areas; they simply were not able to get into town. It was quite an emotional experience for me looking out over a crowd and assessing the different connections I had with those students, many of whom were graduating in education studies, some in children’s services, and a couple in business.
It reminded me of the days when we were sending students from the Barkly to boarding school in Alice Springs, and some in Darwin. A large percentage was quite courageous in leaving home and family and travelling to Alice Springs and enrolling at Yirara College and continuing their education away from home. Enormous challenges went with that, but some of these students graduating at Batchelor Institute Graduation in 2013 had embarked on that journey and really never left it because they were still on the education pathway.
It was interesting in those days because we were in schools on cattle stations; we were in the silver bullet area and all in caravans. It was a totally different era in education, but the staff at Yirara would tell us in their reporting a commonality - there was something different about the Barkly students. Their literacy and numeracy levels were close to age grade level, their behaviour was great, and they were lively and dynamic kids who were a joy to work with. They got on well in the boarding environment, and I am talking about the 1980s and early 1990s, and it was a common occurrence to hear from Yirara College staff that the Barkly kids were special; they were really good kids and were right on track.
Here I was looking out over a crowd and connecting with some I had enrolled in preschool; others who were with me when we started schools on the river banks at Epenarra and Robertson River and the Nicholson River; some were staff members at the Borroloola Community Education Centre when I went there as the principal. They were all interconnected, and here they were continuing on that journey as great role models.
The real disappointment was the politics behind the scenes and the reality at the end of the ceremony where photos were taken - I was honoured to be asked to be in the photos - being a member in opposition there is limited kudos in these circumstances; very different from being a minister in government, but a number of students demanded I be in the photo shoot so, of course, I maximised that opportunity.
To hear the story that four positions of these brilliant teachers in a program supporting tertiary education students, and the results were in front of us with over 30 at the ceremony and more names on the program, and this is over a couple of years - those four teachers have gone. Their jobs were scrapped. The Minister for Education needs to understand the ramification of education cuts.
At the Cabinet end, when the politician demands an efficiency dividend and the public sector is challenged in how it delivers those savings for government, it is important the minister look at each and every outcome of the decisions. Unfortunately, what has happened in the Barkly and, I presume, elsewhere, but I will concentrate on the Barkly, these four positions have gone. You have this incredible outcome, an outcome I share in one way or another for more than half of my life, now being taken away. Something that has been really good and demonstrated results has been scrapped. Batchelor will continue to do its business, but without an initiative which has shown great outcomes.
It links back to the stories Yirara College staff told, ‘There is something special about these Barkly kids’. There is something special about Barkly tertiary education students as well, but we know from looking at the results in the 2013 Graduation in the Barkly region that these four positions - those wonderful teachers who took upon career enhancement of these Aboriginal people - worked. They are displaced officers, they have been repositioned back into the system, but the sad part of the story is that initiative is now wanting. It has been left wanting because it was simply a bad decision, something the minister can pick up on, something the minister needs to research but, essentially, it ends with the debate. We can put off a bridge, we can push out a road into forward estimates, but we do not cut education. It is the exact opposite; we bend over backwards to ensure we invest in Northern Territory education.
Motion agreed to; Assembly adjourned.
VISITORS
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, we have many visitors in parliament today. I advise of the presence in the gallery of Year 6 students from Wagaman Primary School accompanied by their teacher, Jenni Webber, and Year 5 students from St Paul’s school, accompanied by their teacher, Alain van Gurp. On behalf of honourable members, I extend a warm welcome to you and hope you enjoy your tour today at Parliament House.
Members: Hear, hear!
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, I advise of the presence in the gallery of members of the Independent Associated Seed Graders Conference. On behalf of honourable members, I extend a warm welcome to you also to Parliament House.
Members: Hear, hear!
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, I advise of the presence in the gallery of the Fibrecraft Guild from Humpty Doo. Welcome to Parliament House for your tour during Question Time and morning tea later.
Members: Hear, hear!
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, we have some very remarkable people who have walked all the way from Townsville to Darwin especially to be here for Question Time. Welcome! They are up there in the blue shirts ...
Mr Elferink: They are looking very tired, Madam Speaker.
Madam SPEAKER: Looking very tired and fit. Welcome, walkers from Townsville. You have been raising money for Legacy, an exceptional cause, so well done.
Members: Hear, hear!
Madam SPEAKER: Thank you to minister Westra van Holthe for helping you to be at Parliament House today.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT AMENDMENT BILL
(Serial 35)
(Serial 35)
Bill presented and read a first time.
Ms ANDERSON (Local Government): Madam Speaker, I move that the bill be now read a second time.
The purpose of this bill is to strengthen the existing local governance arrangements in regional and remote areas.
The Local Government Act sets out the legislative framework for local government in the Northern Territory, providing for a democratic system of local government, including municipal and shire councils. However, feedback received by this government so far has been that, as currently set out, local governments in regional and remote areas have not provided a voice for communities to influence or play a vital role in their governance.
The bill seeks to introduce a new category of councils; namely, regional councils. The area over which a regional council will have administrative responsibility will be referred to as a region. Regional councils will have similar functions, roles, and responsibilities to municipal and shire councils. However, unlike municipal and shire councils, regional councils will have local authorities. Local authorities will bring the voice of communities to the council table. They will have an active role in council decision-making, including budget decisions.
The chair of a local authority will be a council member who represents a relevant ward. This will ensure there is direct line and voice from local authorities to the council.
Local authorities will have a direct role in community planning which will contribute to the plan of a regional council.
The bill also provides for the minister to identify, through a Gazette notice, a part of any regional council that must have a local authority. The regional council must then establish the local authority as set out in ministerial guidelines.
Local authorities will consist of members of the regional council who represent the ward where the local authority is situated, and such other members of the community who are appointed by the council. The process leading to appointment will be explained in ministerial guidelines. As the chair of a local authority will be the council member who represents a ward within which the local authority is situated, we can be sure the voice of local authority is carried into every council meeting.
Members of the local authority may be paid allowances in line with ministerial guidelines. By the time this bill is to be debated, all the proposed guidelines will be publicly available.
The bill abolishes regional management plans that are currently provided for in the act. The original intent of regional management plans was twofold: (1) to encourage cooperation amongst councils in the same region and, (2) they outlined the core services which shire councils should provide and where those core services should be delivered. Feedback received from the sector has been that the regional management plans have failed to achieve their objectives. Regional management plans provide a very cumbersome way of specifying cooperative initiatives and core services. Councils have expressed frustration with having to participate in a process that has not provided any measurable gain. In light of this, regional management plans have been abolished. Councils do not need them to cooperate. Councils are able to cooperate with each other whenever it is convenient for them to do so.
However, regional management plans currently outline core services that shire councils should prioritise delivery of, and these have been useful in some circumstances. For this reason, the bill retains the power for the minister to specify, by Gazette notice, core services for any non-municipal council.
Due to the introduction of regional councils as the new category of local government councils, as well as the introduction of local authorities, the bill makes consequential amendments to other Territory legislation that refers to the local government sector. This includes the AustralAsia Railway (Special Provisions) Act, Darwin Port Corporation Act, Education (College and School Council) Regulations, Energy Pipelines Act, Evidence Act, Housing Act, Heritage Act, Interpretation Act, Jabiru Town Development Act, Kava Management Act, Liquor Act, Litter Act, Local Government (Administration) Regulations, Northern Territory Aboriginal Sacred Sites Regulations, Volatile Substance Abuse Prevention Act and the Volatile Substance Act Prevention Regulations.
The bill has much to recommend it as an example of this government listening to Territorians residing in regional and remote areas. It will ensure that existing local governance arrangement in those areas can be strengthened. The proposed amendments will allow us to give a voice on local governance matters back to regional and remote communities.
Madam Speaker, I commend this bill to honourable members and table the explanatory statement to accompany the bill.
Debate adjourned.
MOTION
Appointment of a Sessional Committee on the Northern Territory’s Energy Future
Appointment of a Sessional Committee on the Northern Territory’s Energy Future
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Mr Deputy Speaker, by agreement with the opposition and by leave of this House I present this on behalf of the Chief Minister.
I move that a sessional committee, to be known as the Committee on the Northern Territory’s Energy Future, be appointed.
The committee’s membership is to comprise three government members, two opposition members and one Independent member. The committee shall elect a government member as chair. The committee may elect a deputy chair of the committee who may act as the chair when the chair is absent from a meeting or there is no chair of the committee. A quorum of the committee shall be three members of the committee.
The committee shall inquire into, report from time to time, and make recommendations regarding:
1. the Territory’s current energy capability
3. the prospect for additional energy resources
The committee will give priority to its terms of reference insofar as they apply to onshore energy sources.
The committee may appoint subcommittees comprising of two or more of its members and refer to any such subcommittee any matter which the committee may examine, and the quorum of the subcommittee shall be two.
The provisions of this resolution insofar as they are inconsistent with standing orders have effect notwithstanding anything contained in the standing orders.
I further move that the members of the Legislative Assembly, Mr Gary Higgins MLA, Ms Larisa Lee MLA and Mrs Bess Price MLA be appointed as government members of the Committee on the Northern Territory’s Energy Future.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank members of the opposition for indicating their preparedness to proceed with this committee and this debate today. However, I again extend the offer to the members opposite that if they want the matter adjourned they can still do so and indicate that during the debate.
In bringing forward this motion seeking the establishment of a parliamentary Sessional Committee on the Territory’s energy future we recognise that secure, reliable, and affordable energy will fuel economic growth. Future capacity must match increased investment in the development of the Territory.
One of the great concerns I have as a member of parliament is I all too often hear in relation to the Northern Territory the word ‘potential’ when I would much rather hear the word ‘actual’ relating to any number of issues, not least of which is the security of our energy supply.
This committee will have the important role of accessing our energy capability, future needs, and continuity of supply. Efforts will be concentrated on the supply and potential supply of energy resources. This strategic planning is a critical component for our future and our ability to bring people to the Northern Territory.
The draft Framing the Future blueprint launched this week defines our vision of a prosperous economy for the Northern Territory. Its objectives include an economy that unlocks the potential of our regions and provides critical infrastructure.
Our template for growth must encompass energy needs and reserves, capability required for the coming decades, all the options for a secure energy supply, delivery methodology and considerations for the most efficient, effective, and responsible use of our energy. It is clear the Northern Territory holds huge - nay, enormous - potential. We cannot say to the Northern Territory community, ‘Look at what is on the horizon!’, without providing a thoughtful strategy that takes into account every requirement for expansion. We cannot allow a state of mind that says, ‘It has always been good enough’. When we are in an era of rapid change and technological advances, ‘It has always been good enough’ will not pass muster.
Growth equates to demands and, therefore, must be matched by the provision of reliable energy supplies. We cannot invite new trading partners when we cannot properly accommodate all our future energy needs. We cannot constantly emphasise that we need a multilevel economy that also embraces tourism, the pastoral industry and agribusiness, mining and exports, Defence, and construction without the certain knowledge that planning for our energy future is under way.
The comparatively high cost of electricity is a fact in our history. Driven by the size of our market and the distance between other domestic markets, achieving an improvement in the fiscal situation and operation of Power and Water Corporation has been, and remains, an urgent priority.
A great deal of work is being done with regard to power generation and fuel efficiency. Power considerations for the future must also focus on alternative sources and affordable energy, land for power generation facilities and on-demand storage facilities, and corridors for distribution networks and connectivity, including mains and feeders to supply natural gas to homes and businesses.
Over the past years the Country Liberals have noted, both in opposition and during the past year in government, that precise steps must be taken to secure a positive path forward for the Northern Territory. To confidently frame the future of the Northern Territory we must identify and understand our limitations and opportunities. We must identify the ingredients we need in order to flourish, and the long-term impacts of our actions.
Statements such as, ‘we should have done’ and ‘if only’ are not the markers of effective and competent leadership, whereas responsible discussion, research, and consultation leading to certainty are. It is why we have stressed the importance of planning. It is why the government established an Economic Development Subcommittee of Cabinet. It is why we have invested in a separate energy directorate within the Department of Mines and Energy. That will be essential to ensuring the Territory’s considerable natural gas resources are developed in a timely manner and there is a comprehensive debate about shale gas development.
I note that projected expenditure on oil and gas exploration on granted tenements exceeds $200m over the next five years, with this figure set to grow as further tenements are granted.
There are now diverse energy resources available to us immediately: offshore oil and gas; renewable sources such as wind, geothermal and tidal energy; and biofuels and commercial development of unconventional gas. There are some energy resources that are not available, such as nuclear fission or fusion.
If we do not get the matter of our energy future correct, we could slow economic growth. Yes, gas will provide the Northern Territory with enormous opportunities, but these need to encompass the community at large, not just a small Top End component. Energy is essential to all of us and needs to be affordable, reliable, and aligned with predicted usage. We need to understand all the issues at stake, the efficiencies that can be made, the regulations that must be put in place, and the infrastructure required.
In Western Australia, LNG producers commit to making available domestic gas equivalent to 15% of LNG production from each LNG export project.
The previous Labor government, led by Clare Martin and then by Paul Henderson, secured the INPEX deal for Darwin over WA, and those efforts need to be acknowledged and applauded. The government is working hard to ensure further offshore gas developments and major projects will follow suit.
The story behind securing the Ichthys LNG project is a salutary tale. Getting finance for the Ichthys LNG project was a huge challenge. One of the main reasons lenders were prepared to sign up is that the project has concluded long-term LNG sales and purchase agreements with 10 well-credentialed buyers. Without this certainty, Ichthys would not have gone ahead.
That is why on 16 April 2013 the Northern Territory government confirmed it will not be introducing a blanket reservation policy on the industry.
This sessional committee will not be looking into the extraction of minerals; it will concentrate efforts on supply and potential supply of energy producing resources, both offshore and onshore. Onshore energy development is moving swiftly worldwide due to technological advances. The economic benefits are substantial, but capitalising on this opportunity and profitability in tapping these vast domestic resources depends on countering public apprehension and potential adverse impacts.
The levels of concern in the community must be addressed through a commitment to transparency and best practice. The substantial benefits of greater energy independence, job creation, and greener energy future which come from tapping these unconventional resources must be based on facts, scientific information, and data collection, not myths and misinformation.
As the community seeks to learn more about sustainable onshore natural gas, improving industry practices and procedures and mandating regulations to ensure stringent oversight has urgency above that of merely ensuring compliance. There is no argument about the need for reliable, competitively priced energy; there is no doubt we need to put in place efficient energy infrastructure.
The benefit of this bipartisan committee is that consideration can be made and advice given to government on a wide range of issues, including maximising social, environmental, and economic benefit to the Northern Territory, the best commercially viable opportunities, and meeting the demands of customers in light of known committed developments, taking into account the current strong level of exploration and development activity.
In summary, the committee will: canvass all stakeholders in the energy debate, including domestic and international interests; appoint subcommittees as it sees fit to gather the required information; consider, disclose and publish information as it sees fit; put proceedings on the public record with the exception of confidential information; and consider the issue of security of gas supplies for the domestic market as being of critical importance. Its deliberations will include the acceleration of onshore energy resources and tidal energy alternatives, and consideration of negotiated agreements on gas prioritisation for domestic use.
The committee will, in its assessment of the Territory’s energy needs, also include a focus on future economic growth for regional and remote areas, infrastructure requirements and coordination Territory-wide, and support for services and business opportunities in the long term.
The committee will, in the first instance, give priority to concentrating its efforts to onshore energy resources and then report to parliament during 2014.
It should also be clear to all members of this House that energy security is an issue of critical importance and should be supported by all parties bringing this sessional committee into being.
Mr Deputy Speaker, in the interests of allowing the opposition and Independent members time to consider their membership of this important committee, I again invite them, if they choose, to have the debate adjourned or, alternatively, if they choose to support the committee forthwith today, we will welcome that during the debate.
Ms LAWRIE (Opposition Leader): Mr Deputy Speaker, the Leader of Government Business has already been advised by the Opposition Whip that we will be supporting the establishment of the sessional committee and that we are prepared today to proceed with providing advice on committee membership. I note you have, by three references through your comments, invited us to consider it over a longer time, but we have had considerations and discussions and are more than ready to proceed.
We welcome the creation of the sessional committee. We have looked at the range of the terms of reference. I understand, in a sense, why the government would want to give priority to onshore resources. However, regarding the opportunities that exist offshore, particularly in the committee members’ understanding of the real and genuine opportunities of the service and supply industry we will become, you should consider not being too limited. Reporting back in 2014 would give them ample time to look at the issues onshore. As you have alluded to, there are significant community concerns in the method and technology of onshore extraction.
We have some very great companies doing some terrific exploration in the Territory, particularly in and around Central Australia. The potential is real and present, and there is a genuine desire by this sessional committee, I hope, to meet with the companies.
I urge the sessional committee to also be aware of the community concerns and to go out of its way to hear from all stakeholders, because if you truly are going to provide informed recommendations to government then you need to be as inclusive as possible. There are, of course, the environment stakeholders but, importantly, there are the land councils and the traditional owners as well. I urge the sessional committee members to ensure in their work they establish processes and mechanisms to literally get out on the ground and hear from as many stakeholders as possible.
As I said, there is scope within that reporting time frame to have a genuine understanding of offshore exploration, what is occurring, and how advanced people are. It is a rapidly-moving beast, and in the leveraging a gas to Gove deal would secure, we will see a doubling of the domestic gas market supply needs. Therein lies rapid opportunity, particularly when you look at wells such as Penguin Deep and the exploration opportunity there.
Given the time frame of 2014 for first reporting, whilst the government has said its priority is onshore resources, the opposition, through its committee membership, will be urging for a genuine look at the offshore prospectivity, if you are to truly understand the future energy supply chain and where the Marine Supply Base fits within the service and supply industry. A decision that closes off, once and for all, Western Australian opportunities in the short to medium term in marine supply has meant our Marine Supply Base is in pole position in the exploration occurring offshore and the real opportunities that flow out of that. That is something I urge the committee to be open to which truly gives you an understanding of the real opportunities that exist.
I do not want the government to see our genuine and bipartisan participation in this as in any way moving away from any of our existing Labor platforms and policies. I note, for example, there is an intention to look at the alternative source of energy supply of the Territory’s uranium. We extract uranium and we sell it overseas, but our position is very clear on nuclear energy, and I do not see us participating in this committee saying, ‘That is okay, we are all for nuclear energy in the Territory’. We are clearly not.
However, in the broad range of the terms of reference it is not something we are going to quibble about. I flag to the government not to play politics with such an important sessional committee and the work it has been tasked to do if you genuinely want a bipartisan approach.
There is a genuine opportunity in the alternative sources of energy. We have the legislative basis to hot rock, for example, and we have seen some very good solar programs, particularly in and around Alice Springs as it became the solar city. Biofuels have been explored and introduced at various times into the Northern Territory. I know many people working in the biofuels R&D area, particularly out of Western Australia, who could well inform the committee to a large extent. There is a genuine opportunity in industry development in biofuels, particularly for the transport industry, because the technology has come a long way.
The consideration of the practical work the committee will be doing has led to an obvious decision from the opposition on our committee membership: our deputy leader, the member for Barkly, our shadow minister for Essential Services, will be a committee member. There is no doubt about the importance of his role. He already has well-established relationships with all the major companies exploring throughout Central Australia and has been briefed and updated by all of them on the work they are doing. Similarly, our member for Casuarina, our shadow minister for Resources, probably has the most corporate knowledge in this Chamber when it comes to the resources sector in the Northern Territory. His knowledge would tremendously add value to the committee in its work.
We all take a vital interest in this. We have very secure energy supplies through our contractual arrangements, and through to 2032 we are extremely well positioned and well placed with the energy supplies for the Northern Territory government’s needs. That being said, very obviously we are sitting in a region of vast resource opportunities and the major users that come online will look at energy supply.
Some of the major users that come online, such as INPEX, ultimately provide their own energy supply. There are periods before they gear up when they will call upon our energy supply. The mines, as they come online in the Territory, obviously need to look at energy supply, depending on where they are and their scale. All of the work the committee does will be useful in informing them of what is available.
I urge a very open view from the committee in understanding where we sit in the national supply picture. I note it is not part of the terms of reference. Within the terms of reference provided by government there is not scope to look at how we could become a major energy supplier to our nation. New South Wales is in dire need of an energy supply. I think they have about two years of gas left.
The former Chief Minister, the member for Blain, mentioned his aspirations around a national grid in pipeline supplies. As Leader of the Opposition, I was very encouraged to hear the member for Blain talk about that. I have talked to the industry and many of the key major players through APIA about the opportunities of us becoming major suppliers in our nation. Hopefully we will have the opportunity of a national infrastructure fund of some sort - time-wise, post-federal election, depending on who the government is - which provides an opportunity for the Northern Territory to position itself early in the debate on infrastructure priorities.
I note that infrastructure is part of the terms of reference mentioned in the speech by the Leader of Government Business, but is not specifically contained within the terms of reference I have in front of me that were distributed in the Chamber. If you are looking at infrastructure then how we are positioning ourselves to be our nation’s energy supplier is a very relevant body of work this sessional committee could investigate.
There are a couple of matters I raise in good faith regarding this sessional committee. We are entering into it in good faith. There is abundant opportunity in the Northern Territory. We have come a long way in a decade. Just over a decade ago, before Labor won government, we were in the infancy of the oil and gas industry with the early negotiations between the then County Liberal Party Northern Territory government and ConocoPhillips in regard to DLNG. With a change of government Labor came in, and we finalised and secured the delivery of the LNG plant into Darwin.
We then went after the very big opportunity of INPEX and Total with the Ichthys project. When that first started as a body of work people laughed at us and said it would not happen. I remember hearing members of this Chamber say it would not happen. However, we secured it and it is under construction. It is great that the workers’ camp is about to be used, and we will see a real gearing up there.
What that does in regard to the pipeline is send a very clear signal that Browse Basin gas is heading to the Territory rather than Western Australia. Obviously, with Woodside announcing FLNG, they have given up on landing in Western Australia. In the national interest, whoever the federal government is post the election, there needs to be a genuine dialogue. I have suggested it be at the Energy Ministerial Council to begin with, then move on to COAG. We need genuine dialogue around how we can best position the extraction opportunities of the Browse Basin and use the opportunities we have with the Marine Supply Base in the Northern Territory for that all-important INPEX/Total pipeline. This will not be welcome news to Western Australia, but so be it. It is in the national interest that we provide the opportunity to bring those vast resources to our nation; New South Wales certainly needs some of them.
Some of the things said by the member for Blain in regard to a national outcome in the supply of energy out of those respective fields as well as the interconnect through pipelines. both offshore and onshore, are matters I hope this sessional committee turns its mind too, albeit I recognise the government has said it will give priority to onshore.
With those comments of support, we, as a team, will be playing a keen and active participatory role. I understand the privilege aspects of committees, but I expect we will receive a consistent flow of advice and information coming back so we can more broadly inform our committee members of some of the priorities we hear about.
As Leader of the Opposition I work closely with all the major resources companies exploring in the Northern Territory or moving to production here. We have always had a can-do attitude with the resources of the Northern Territory and the offshore resources that lie in Commonwealth waters. We are very keen to ensure we become the resource leader of our nation. We have pursued that policy and delivered on many projects.
As Treasurer and minister for the port when I first embarked on the opportunities of the Marine Supply Base, everyone said, ‘No, that is really not what your government needs to be doing, focus elsewhere’. I preferred to listen to people in the industry who said, ‘Whatever you do, have a good look at that. It would be well-positioned’.
With the former Chief Minister, Paul Henderson, very keen after looking at the model in Aberdeen, we were able to move all the barriers out of the way and proceed to construction of the Marine Supply Base.
The elements and fundamentals of growth and prosperity are there. However, let us not forget the importance - I go back to my request at the outset - of bringing people of the Northern Territory with us on this journey: the people who have a deep and abiding love of our environment and want to ensure we have the right regulatory frameworks to deal with that and understand the impacts of technology, particularly extraction methods. These are the people who live on the land where the exploration is occurring, the traditional owners and the people who represent them in negotiations with the land councils.
Mr Deputy Speaker, whilst there is great opportunity, there is also great responsibility. I wish the members of the sessional committee all the very best in their task.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank the minister for bringing forward this motion. I have only just had a chance to read it, so my comments, to some extent, will be based on a quick look at what has been put forward.
I do not quite accept the Leader of the Opposition’s viewpoint on uranium. I am on the record as saying that nuclear power is still one of the options this world needs to reduce its carbon emissions. Sometimes we are foolish to think renewable energy sources will take the place of existing fossil fuel sources of energy overnight. Not only will it take many years, but is a long way off before it can get anywhere near replacing the base-load power we need in the world.
In the meantime, the only source of energy which could do that still is uranium. Whether that is a good idea or a bad idea in relation to waste and those matters is something that needs to be looked at. However, I do not think we can shy away from the fact that it does not produce carbon emissions except in its production, and carbon emissions are one of our biggest concerns in the world today.
In saying that, that is something that could perhaps have been added to the recommendations. I do not know whether it is too late, but I have to add a part. I will read from the beginning:
- The committee shall inquire into, report from time to time, make recommendations …
It is no good us discussing the sources of energy that might be applicable to the Northern Territory if, at the same time, we are trying to reduce our carbon emissions. In part 6 it talks about oil, gas and coal. Coal produces lots of energy, but it is also a form of energy that produces a high level of high carbon emissions. It would be good for the committee, when looking at sources of energy, to do compare levels of carbon emissions.
One of the areas that has always concerned me is solar. Solar is fantastic; do not get me wrong, I have family who rely on solar as their only source of power. However, solar energy produces carbon emissions because the panels the solar cells are kept in are made of aluminium. Anyone who knows anything about aluminium will know it requires extreme amounts of energy, and that energy has to be produced from somewhere. Then there are lithium batteries, which are not cheap. You require a source of energy to be stored. Carbon is emitted in the production of lithium batteries.
If we look at various forms of energy and do not undertake a true analysis of the carbon emissions of each source of energy then we are, to some extent, being superficial in our reporting of the energy requirements for the Northern Territory.
I remember a former Chief Minister talking about how gas was clean. Part of the debate was over the use of natural gas in cars. I got on to the ESSO website and had a look at the carbon emissions in the Bass Strait where they clean up the gas for you to run your car in a clean way. Yes, it was clean for the motor car, but it was still not clean for the environment because, like our LNG plant in the middle of the harbour, Japan gets clean gas, we get the carbon dioxide.
This committee really needs an extra recommendation built into this to look at the carbon emissions of each source of energy if we are to come up with fair studied or well-thought-out conclusions at the end of the committee’s life.
Also, I do not think part 7 should be in here, which the Leader of the Opposition mentioned, because we are going to look at tidal energy. Tidal energy is certainly not onshore, unless there is a low tide; it is offshore. If we are to concentrate on onshore energy, that is a narrowing of what we need to be looking at. People would know a company has been looking at putting tidal energy in the Clarence Strait for some years. It has not come to be for many reasons. There was work done on tidal energy in the Apsley Strait of Bathurst Island. The department did quite a lot of work for some years …
Mr Elferink: I think that generator is still going.
Mr WOOD: I thought the trial had finished. There is also work in other parts of the world on tidal energy. You put onshore energy sources on the list; I know it says we will give priority to it. There have been applications for extractive exploration permits off the coast of the Peron Islands. There are concerns about the possible effects of exploration offshore within our Northern Territory limits. I hope if this clause stays we will not be limited to looking at offshore exploration, especially within the boundaries of the Northern Territory.
Members might remember I asked a question of the minister in relation to a company called MBS Oil which does petroleum exploration and wanted to look at exploring for gas in the rural area and further to the east of Darwin. I had some discussions with the representative of APIA, the Australian Petroleum Industry Association. Sometimes, the industry gets into trouble, not necessarily because of its members, but because there are other people who see an opportunity to create business in this area who are not experienced with dealing with some of the issues that need to be looked at from the start.
I will give you an example. The Environment Centre has been talking to certain groups of Aboriginal people about fracking, and there have been issues about offshore mining at Groote Eylandt. Without getting into the debate about whether that is good or bad, I sometimes see there has not been enough discussion between companies and traditional owners before applications have been processed. In other words, an education process is lacking, not just in those areas but in our general community. You see that from some of the discussion around fracking at present. People who are concerned about fracking call me and keep quoting to me about coal seam gas. They talk about the Hunter Valley and what they have seen on television. They talk about what they have seen in Texas on a video. Then, when you talk to the department and it gives you a briefing on what is meant to happen in the Northern Territory, it does not match anything the people have been quoting.
One of the issues in relation to the exploration of energy is the education of the general public about what it entails, perhaps by the government as a neutral entity. Many people out bush would have no idea. Where my sisters come from, all they see is a notice that someone tells them was in the paper which says there will be exploration off the coast near the Peron Islands. Straightaway – and I do not blame them - they say, ‘No way; there are turtles and pelicans there.’ In other words, if we do not do that groundwork first, do not be surprised if people are up in arms. Perhaps the committee can look at whether there is a role for government and industry, not so much to counteract the Environment Centre; it has every right to put forward an opinion about mining processes and so on. That is part of our democracy.
However, we can have imbalance in the debate and no one is making an effort. The classic example is uranium. The member for Barkly is not a great supporter of the waste. He is entitled to his opinion; I am not knocking the member for Barkly. People say it is close to Tennant Creek and is in an earthquake zone, but it is not close to Tennant Creek; it is 110 km away. If you look at what is being suggested, they will build a facility that will withstand an earthquake because it is dealing with solid waste.
It is not that people should not have the right to say they have a concern, but industry has to say, ‘Yes, you have a legitimate concern, but this is what we would do to ensure there are no problems with that issue’. It is like planning. People put forward a proposal, people object to the proposal, then the person who put the planning matter forward can say, ‘That is not exactly right; this is what we plan to do’.
The committee should also be looking at processes which will enable the public to have an educated view of what is being suggested so they can make an educated decision on whether they support or object to proposals being put forward in relation to exploration for any kind of energy in the Northern Territory.
One of the areas sometimes missed in this debate is that everyone drives a car. It is a big area which has not yet been looked at, even though we have electric cars that require something to charge their batteries, which happens to be a fossil fuel form of energy. We might have a nice clean car, but we are still pumping carbon emissions at the power station. We can use solar, but solar also has its fair share of carbon emissions.
For many years I have looked at hydrogen as a source of energy for vehicles. It a clean form of energy and, when burnt, produces water. The difficulty is producing hydrogen in a way where there are no carbon emissions. One of the alternatives of producing hydrogen has been to use the heat from nuclear power stations to break the molecules so you can produce hydrogen.
Transportation is also an area we have to look at. I look at the number of cars going to work in the morning in Darwin and think, ‘Wow, each one of those has a tank full of petrol or diesel’. We are only a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the world, so how many petrol tanks are running around the world every day full of diesel and petrol and how are we ever going to replace that? What means of energy will replace oil and gas for the car when it eventually runs out? I do not believe the car will disappear.
Hydrogen is one of the products that can be used …
Mr Elferink: Most likely, I would say.
Mr WOOD: Yes. I would have liked to go this year but, hopefully, in two years time I can go to Hamburg where they have the hydrogen fuel cells conference every year and manufacturers show their wares. This year was inappropriate with a new government in power and many discussions about various issues. It was not the right time to go, but I will put my hand up for the next one because it is an area we should be looking at.
Even though we are a small territory it does not mean we cannot have good, big, and new ideas about how we run our transport industries. Transport is important to the Northern Territory, especially for the agricultural industry. As much as I have objections to certain things, minister, I am very much supportive of the agricultural industry, and transport is a big cost. A big cost for food production is irrigation. If we can find cheaper ways to do these things, if this committee can come up with some alternatives, it would be good.
I do not know whether this will be part of what we are looking at, but there is a cost in producing energy. We might say we can produce gas and, as someone said, pipe it off to somewhere across Australia. What is the cost of doing that? We can produce tidal energy on the Clarence Strait, but what are the economics of that? We already have gas in the Northern Territory. Is that cheaper than putting and maintaining that tidal mechanism under the water?
I will give you an example. The Litchfield Shire has put a little solar light on the corner of Stevens Road and Brandt Road in Knuckey Lagoon. That is fine, but within about 30 m of it the power poles go past. On one hand, it looks terrific; we are using solar power, fantastic. But the cost of running the power line across there with an ordinary globe would be far cheaper. You can have this wonderful philosophical debate about this, but you still have to be realistic. Costs come into it, because we pay for the cost of energy. The reason we subsidise energy in remote areas of the Territory is simply because we cannot afford it; we could not charge people the full tote odds in places out bush.
We put in solar - and I am still on my way to Alpurrurulam, member for Barkly, to look at the solar/wind/diesel generation plant. Even the solar and wind energy generation has cost a lot of money. It has not been cheap and by the time you recover all that cost I will be well and truly dead. It is great to have it, do not get me wrong, but when we are talking about producing energy we need to look at the realistic costs of it because in the end we are the ones who pay for that energy.
What we are really after is trying to produce energy that is cost-efficient, will keep our cost of production down, will keep our cost of living down, and give us the benefits we know we can get from energy which, in a hot and cold place like the Territory, is an essential part of our living.
Attorney-General, I have probably rambled a bit there, but I offer those ideas in good faith. We need to have something that looks at carbon emissions and costs. I do not think we should concentrate exclusively on onshore energy resources, even though part 7 says the committee will give priority to its terms of reference insofar as they apply. Maybe you could leave it as it is. If it does not stop us looking at tidal energy and offshore exploration within the Northern Territory boundaries, then I can live with it.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I need to move an amendment, if that is okay …
Mr Elferink: Is this where you are going to add some names?
Mr WOOD: I am going to add some names. I would like to add the carbon emission one if that is possible. I do not know whether you would let me do that.
Mr Elferink: We would have to have a chat over lunch if you are going to do that.
Mr WOOD: All right, that is something we can come back to at another stage.
Mr ELFERINK: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! If it assists the House and the debate, perhaps we can break for lunch now. If the member for Nelson can conclude his remarks after lunch, we will be able to talk about those one or two items on the fifth floor in the meantime.
Does that suit you?
Mr WOOD: That suits me.
Mr ELFERINK: Can I recommend that we break for lunch five minutes early, Mr Deputy Speaker?
Debate suspended.
PETITION
Dhimurru Aboriginal Land Management Corporation Senior Wildlife Ranger Position
Dhimurru Aboriginal Land Management Corporation Senior Wildlife Ranger Position
Ms WALKER (Nhulunbuy): Madam Speaker, I present a petition from 440 petitioners praying that Dhimurru Aboriginal Land Management Corporation senior NT Parks and Wildlife ranger position be continued. The petition bears the Clerk’s certificate that it conforms with the requirements of standing orders.
Madam Speaker, I move that the petition be read.
Motion agreed to; petition read:
- To the honourable Speaker and members of the Legislative Assembly of the Northern Territory, we the undersigned respectfully showeth that the only NT Parks and Wildlife ranger position on the Gove Peninsula is vital in supporting the interests of caring for country training and employment programs for Yolngu rangers, while also providing critical public service with wildlife management, including crocodile management.
Your petitioners, therefore, humbly pray that the government reverses its decision to discontinue funding the senior NT Parks and Wildlife ranger position with Dhimurru Aboriginal Land Corporation, and your petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray.
MOTION
Appointment of a Sessional Committee on the Northern Territory’s Energy Future
Appointment of a Sessional Committee on the Northern Territory’s Energy Future
Continued from earlier this day.
Madam SPEAKER: The member for Nelson has two minutes remaining.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, I will sum up what I was talking about before lunch. I had raised a couple of issues about whether we could put some amendments to this sessional committee document we have before us. I had discussions with the minister during lunchtime. I am satisfied with the result of those discussions; the minister said he will propose those amendments at the end of this debate.
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, as per the conversation had in the Chamber prior to the luncheon adjournment, I will make a minor amendment to the motion on the table. It has been done in consultation with the opposition and the Independent member.
Before I move that amendment - I do not have it written out; I was expecting it to be the member for Nelson. Essentially, what I seek to do is delete all words after the word ‘I’ in the final paragraph and replace with the words: further move that members of the Legislative Assembly, Mr Gary Higgins MLA, Ms Larisa Lee MLA and Mrs Bess Price MLA be appointed as government members; that Mr Gerry McCarthy MLA and Mr Kon Vatskalis MLA be appointed as opposition members; and that Mr Gerry Wood MLA be appointed as an Independent member of the committee on the Northern Territory’s energy future.
That amendment captures all of the requirements of members here.
I place on record my thanks to the opposition and the Independent member for allowing this motion to pass so quickly. I also place on the record what I guaranteed the member for Nelson during the luncheon adjournment in relation to his comments about the studies of carbon emissions as a result of exploring various forms of energy. I take on board what he said. It is not the intention of the government to prevent the committee from looking at those sorts of things if the committee determines they are important enough to consider. There is no attempt to constrain what the committee seeks to do but, rather, let us keep the focus on guaranteeing an energy future for the people of the Northern Territory.
As the future rolls out, energy will continue to be, and increasingly become, a difficult issue for all nations, whether western in structure or emerging. Energy will become more expensive and, until such time as we find a cheap, reliable energy source such as fusion energy or something of that nature, we will be stuck with having to deal with the expensive systems of energy generation we have now: expensive in potential environmental impact and the cost of finding those energy sources. As we dig deeper for oil and gas, as we go further for these things, energy will continue to be an increasingly expensive commodity.
Cost is probably one of the components the committee will look at. What we are attempting to do - and I pick up on the Leader of the Opposition’s statement - is confirm our energy for the future. Once we have confirmed that energy future the Territory not only can provide energy sources for its own development into the future, but the idea of the Territory as a nett energy exporter is attractive to the government. We would be encouraged by any suggestions or conclusions by the committee where a new export industry from the Northern Territory could be developed.
It is the government’s intention to make certain the opposition is involved in this important aspect of the development of the Northern Territory’s future, because whomsoever shall form government in the future - whether it be Country Liberals, The Greens or the Labor Party - energy will be a challenge we must all face together. Whilst we may not agree on the details, if we want something to happen when we hit the light switch when we walk into our living rooms, we had better do something about securing our energy future.
If we want businesses to come to the Northern Territory to develop a future manufacturing industry, particularly heavy manufacturing, in this part of the world, including valuating things like iron ore by having a smelter here, then we need to be able to identify the sources of energy that will be readily available to us.
I thank the members of this House. I thank the opposition and the Independent member of this House for their support on this important committee, and I look forward very much to its final report.
Madam Speaker, I move the amendment to the motion.
Motion agreed to.
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I move the amended motion.
Motion agreed to.
CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENT (CHEATING
AT GAMBLING) BILL
(Serial 29)
AT GAMBLING) BILL
(Serial 29)
Continued from 16 May 2013.
Mr GUNNER (Fannie Bay): Madam Speaker, we welcome this legislation. We were prepared to debate it during the last sittings of parliament but, due to the lateness of hour, the government deferred it to this sittings week. It is our only bill to debate this week and it is one the opposition supports. It arises as a result of much work that has happened on the national stage across every jurisdiction over recent years. Every jurisdiction is signing up to this bill. It was two years ago that the Northern Territory signed up to be part of the process, and I congratulate the government for continuing this work and continuing to be part of the national process.
Match fixing is already a significant problem in sport. Those of us who are sport lovers, or perhaps even more particularly, cricket lovers, remember Hansie Cronje and some of the issues that occurred with him. There have also been some very recent problems through the IPL and some of the Pakistani cricket players. There are problems around match fixing, and the potential for match fixing is a huge problem. We have seen anomalous betting plunges on Australian soccer matches that do not always make sense. It is something we need to look at.
Match fixing is fraud, pure and simple. The potential for it is huge and it does not just necessarily involve the outcome of the match. There are many aspects of a sporting encounter that can be bet on. For example, all you might need is for a fast bowler to put it wide down the leg side and you have won a bet on that delivery. There are many little things you can bet on nowadays; many things can be fixed in a match. They do not normally appear odd to the human eye when you are watching the sporting encounter, but often betting companies will know because there will be plunges or they will be able to follow the money. Obviously there is a financial incentive to fixing matches or elements of matches.
We are a country that loves its sport and we want to see it played fairly and on an even stage; the integrity of sport is part of what makes sport enjoyable. Personally, I like the idea of not knowing who is going to win a game. Many people might like something like WWE, which is a little more theatrical and more rigged, more entertainment than sport ...
Members interjecting.
Mr GUNNER: Sorry if anyone is listening who did not know that. I much prefer a game where I do not know the outcome although, being a Carlton supporter, this year I have often known the outcome will be a loss.
We need to ensure matches are seen to be fair. We agree with these actions.
Individual sporting organisations have their own rules and procedures but, given that match fixing is, essentially, fraud, it is appropriate to deal with match fixing within the criminal justice system, which this bill does. The offences in the bill relate to an individual gaining financial advantage, be it for themselves or others, or if financial disadvantage is caused to another.
While the NT is home to many online betting agencies, the majority of sporting events they wager on do not take place in the Northern Territory. We seek advice from the Attorney-General in relation to jurisdictional issues, which I am sure he is already across. For example, I presume if an AFL match is played in Darwin and match-fixing allegations arise, that becomes a matter for the NT justice system. Of course, bets can be placed on games with the northeastern Australian Football League, of which Territory Thunder is a team, so we are not immune.
A major concern with the increase in sports betting is it is filtering down into minor or amateur leagues. The AFL, for example, has the capacity to put on integrity commissioners and the like to actively monitor and investigate any irregularities within their sport.
Probably the most professional sport in Australia dealing with these issues, because it had to deal with the issue of money in sport for a long time, is racing and how the stewards work. Many other sporting organisations are now looking at integrity officers and other ways of handling it, but racing has probably been the sport that has had to, for the longest period of time, deal with the issues around money in sport.
Amateur leagues such as organisations like the AFL are less equipped to deal with these issues. As I alluded to before, I am aware of a recent case in Melbourne where online wagering was provided for an American football game which, in Melbourne, are amateur games. Allegedly, players were placing bets on the games and, while in amateur sport the potential for match fixing or fraud exists, the sporting code has far less capacity to monitor it.
In the Territory, the majority of our sport is amateur. While our sporting bodies are professionally run, I am unsure if they are equipped to adequately monitor potential match fixing.
In the example of the case in Melbourne, it was reported the league had no real say or avenue open to it to prevent or control betting agencies offering odds on their games. Even some of the major codes are trying to work through how and what their relationship is with betting companies. Many of the disputes sometimes go to the information available either to the betting agency or the punter. In the flow of information you often find criticism about what is going on.
It is a concern this could happen here. Any advice the Attorney-General could provide on options available in the Territory for a sporting organisation where matches are the subject of online betting would be much appreciated. In passing this bill and bringing these powers into being, if there are problems in the local sporting area in the Territory with our amateur leagues, we can work with them to ensure they can stay on top of it and control it.
It is a complex issue. The issue of insider information often comes up and how betting agencies often seem to know more about a player’s injury, for example, than the ordinary punter. Those things are covered by this bill as well.
I believe players themselves sometimes do not know what they are and are not releasing. To use the AFL example, we often see bets on the first goal kicked. When someone who is normally a defender talks openly about the fact he might start in the forward line next week, then you see the bets go on. In all those instances, from memory, the players have said it was just a mistake; they had not thought it through and did not know their mate, their brother, or whoever, was going to place a bet on the first goal kicked.
We are comfortable the bill addresses these situations. There is an issue when that information is leaked. To date, I do not believe there has been any suggestion those forward line moves in the AFL were deliberate. There were some league issues at one stage about a penalty goal that was scored early in a game that was a concern.
Sport is also played by juniors. One of the great things about sport is the pathway and opportunities it provides for young people. NT Thunder is a great example of providing teenage players opportunities to play in games. The games they play in can be subject to significant gambling.
This legislation provides for some very serious penalties of up to seven years in gaol. We seek advice from the Attorney-General about what initiatives will be put in place to ensure young people playing sport are fully aware of these penalties and the consequences should they be tempted or led astray. Would it be an education campaign? What sort of conversation will we have with teenagers who are playing in games where there will be odds offered and could be an incentive or pressure placed on them by adults who are keen to know what is going on?
Madam Speaker, we believe this bill sends the right message: match fixing is not acceptable. The opposition supports the bill and I thank the people from around Australia who have been contributing towards this in the last few years. We look forward to some of those clarifications from the Attorney-General.
Mr HIGGINS (Daly): Madam Speaker, I offer my support to this legislation. My interest in this is twofold; one issue relates to the Indigenous constituents of my electorate. As you all know, they are very football-minded. While they might not be betting on these games, if match fixing is going on, they could be affected.
The other issue is that I have a tourist park, and over the years I have seen many people come through that tourist park who are quite interested in cricket, football, car racing - anything. There is an anecdote about one of these people. There is a fellow who suffers from Alzheimer’s. He is on a drug, and one of the side effects of the drug is it increases his need to gamble. It is good if he decides to gamble that he is going to know at least he has an even chance of betting on the right team.
Indigenous people do a great deal of gambling through card games. I am not too sure how we can stop people cheating in those. I have watched these being played and I still have not worked out how to do it. I do not know how they cheat but they definitely do.
As has already been said, the bill comes from an agreement between Sport ministers and Attorneys-General a couple of years ago and was specific to match fixing. It is not drugs in sport, as I am led to believe; it sets out fixing or being involved in fixing a betting outcome.
I was not here when this bill was introduced at the last sittings, so I had to go back to the second reading speech. I reiterate some of the agreed prohibited match-fixing behaviours: a person is not allowed to intentionally fix or influence; they are not allowed to provide or use insider information; no one should benefit from it; they should not offer a benefit to anyone or bet on a sporting event having insider information; and should not offer anyone else benefits from match fixing.
We are addressing match-fixing behaviours by implementing legislation based on New South Wales legislation. The second reading speech - I have not mentioned this to the Attorney-General at this stage - says it is based on the ‘New South Welsh’ legislation so I hope that has been picked up.
Madam Speaker, I point out that Indigenous people have a high interest in sport and, therefore, I support this legislation. The minister for Tourism is a Parramatta supporter, so I am pleased because I am sure that will fix some of the issues with them. I will be at the Adelaide River Races this Saturday, so I will feel a hell of a lot more confident that the races are not fixed. If people want to go, it starts at 11 am on Saturday.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, I also support this bill. It comes at an appropriate time because we are coming up to a federal election. I would not want that to be fixed. Elections are sometimes used by betting companies as one of their means of making money. People bet on anything in Australia, from frogs at Noonamah, the races at Adelaide River, to whatever some of these betting companies can think of. That is an area betting companies need to look at.
The member for Fannie Bay spoke about someone deciding to bowl a ball down the leg side, which happened in England a couple of years ago and some Indian cricketers are in gaol because of it. There needs to be a question put to some of the betting companies: do they need to reduce their chances of people being able to manipulate the results of a match or a particular thing that will occur during a match?
On the issue of a no ball, it is not very hard for a bowler to put in a no ball and have a few mates bet that the third ball of that over he will put his foot over the line.
This legislation, you would hope, would scare people off doing that. There are severe consequences for people who do. On the other side of the equation, why are betting companies allowing those types of bets to occur in the first place?
It is much harder to bet on a simple football match that Parramatta will be thrashed by the Dragons by 50 points. It is very hard to fix that because you have a whole team involved in playing the game. Whereas in the case of a cricketer who says, ‘The next ball I bowl will be a full toss’, that is not exactly hard to do, and it would be very hard to prove it was not an accident.
There is some onus on the companies to reduce the numbers of options, especially the types of options which could be easily manipulated.
Cheating and gambling, whilst it might benefit the people who cheat, harms those who are involved in legitimate parts of the gambling industry. First of all, the bookmaker or the sporting company which is entitled to make a profit out of gambling would lose some of that profit through somebody match fixing, and it harms the punter. For instance, in a horse race the average punter might study the guide, and there will be a fair chance, if the horse has run on its form over the last few weeks, it should be able to win or at least get a place. However, someone may have done a deal with the owners, or they have some inside information that puts them in a position where they know certain things happen; that horse is going to win.
With horse racing there are probably more people involved than just someone having some inside information; jockeys and trainers would probably be involved as well. However, the point is the average punter loses out. He has put a bet on a race presuming there is a fair chance that horse will win and he has no control over the fact someone has been able to manipulate the system for their benefit by cheating. There are two groups of people who miss out when people cheat and try to gain advantage by illegal means to win a bet.
It also brings teams, especially football teams, into disrepute. People follow their sport and clubs fanatically. If a club or members of that club were to do something deliberately done for the players’ advantage, especially financial advantage, most supporters would take a very dim view of that. They want their team to give their best, whether they win or lose. Many people live their whole lives following one club. To find out members of that club are manipulating the result sends a signal to their supporters that these players are more interested in making a dollar rather than winning for their club. It would leave a sour taste in many supporters’ mouths.
There is a range of things that match fixing effects, and it does not do sport, in general, any good. We all like sport; our cricket, golf, tennis, football and tiddly winks, if we are in that frame of mind. However, when people use sport to cheat, it does not do sport any good at all.
On a slightly different aspect, one of the issues debated in Australia over recent months is the amount of advertising in relation to betting. There is too much advertising for betting, especially during sporting programs. We seem to accept that it is just part and parcel of sport. When I was younger you could not bet on football matches; you could always bet on the gee gees and the dogs. Now we have expanded betting to cover just about anything. I am sure there will be betting in the next election on who wins the most seats, and on individual seats and which candidate will win that seat, maybe even how much they win it by. We have spread betting much further than it used to be - from the horses and the dogs to just about everything you can think of.
The Chief Minister spoke about gambling as a lifestyle of some type. I am not saying it is not a legitimate industry, but it is not an industry that needs to be promoted. It is there if people want to have a bet - I like a bet - but it is also an industry which can destroy people.
The member for Daly spoke about cards. They do not officially come under any bookmakers or sports betting companies, but having been on a couple of committees in years gone by we know that while we have problems with alcohol and drugs in some of our communities, gambling is a serious issue in many of our communities. There is a downside to gambling. Like many good things, you can enjoy it in moderation.
The industry does not need to be promoted; it needs to have some controls over it. One of the controls we should look at is how much advertising should be allowed, especially during televised matches. You only have to look at the signs on the fence around some of the ovals and you will see they mention the TAB all the way around. We have reduced advertising in rugby league matches where Tom Waterhouse - he has sold his company now - was jumping out on the field at every scrum to give you the latest bets and promote gambling. Reducing that was a good move. I wonder if it is a necessity to advertise the odds on our sporting events when many young people watch those sporting events. They love their sport, but with the continual advertising of betting it becomes second nature after a while and people accept it as the norm.
Whilst it is a legitimate industry, I am concerned it is a very powerful industry. I am not sure it needs the extra promotion it receives at present. In fact, it should be promoted less than it is. It is a very big industry, and because it is a very big industry, people are tempted to try to make money out of it. It is not something new.
I presume, minister, this legislation is not saying we have not had similar legislation in some form or another through matters regarding fraud in our own legislation. We have brought in national legislation so it applies across the whole of Australia, which is a good thing.
We all know money talks. We all know when people are tempted to make a great deal of money they will try to cheat the system.
I thank the minister for presenting this legislation. The penalties, in many cases, will discourage people from doing the wrong thing. You will not get rid of it all together, but it will help.
The industry should have a good look at where it sits in relation to being part of the problem when it comes to cheating. It should look at reducing the easy options which are relatively tempting to fix. I mentioned cricket, and people can probably give other examples. They need to look at ways to reduce the chances of match fixing by reducing the number of options you can bet on during a match.
Madam Speaker, I thank the minister for bringing this legislation forward, and I support it.
Mr CONLAN (Greatorex): Madam Speaker, I will be pretty quick too. I add my support to this legislation. It was in consultation with my office and the Attorney-General’s office that we brought this on with some urgency after a meeting I had with ASADA and the national Sports ministers in February.
It is interesting, member for Nelson, to hear you talk about match fixing and race fixing. There was a great story, perhaps an infamous story, which went around the radio circles well before my time in the business, in the 1970s, about the way country radio stations would replay the races. They would take the feed from 2KY in Sydney, and if they were playing music, going to the news or what have you, sometimes you could not take it live so you would record it for later. There was one infamous announcer who would be playing the song while on the other channel the race was coming down from 2KY. He would listen to the race and hear the result. He would pick up the phone, ring a phone box down the street and say, ‘Number four in the fifth’, and the guy would put the bet on. This went on until, eventually, someone figured out he was cleaning up a little too easily.
I am unsure if it is an old wives’ tale or not, but it sounds like something that could very easily happen. It probably took place during that time, but technology has advanced somewhat and we no longer have that problem.
Of course, match fixing is quite widespread, not just in Australia, but across the world. There are a number of examples which I do not need to go into. Many have been highlighted today.
We cannot completely stop this behaviour, but we can put some measures in place that, hopefully, will deter people from doing it. Those things include: for engaging in conduct that corrupts a betting outcome, a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment; for facilitating conduct that corrupts a betting outcome, a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment; for concealing from authorities conduct or an agreement about conduct that corrupts the betting outcome, a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment; using corrupt conduct information for betting purposes, a maximum penalty of seven years’ imprisonment; and using inside information for betting purposes, a maximum penalty of two years’ imprisonment.
The risks to integrity in our sport and racing sectors from ongoing organised crime and gambling cheats are a major concern to our government. Today we pass legislation which takes steps to crack down on these illegal practices. The recommended amendments send a clear and strong message that this government, and the Northern Territory, take match fixing as a very serious criminal offence. It also demonstrates that the Northern Territory government is committed to addressing the issues through a unified and consistent national approach that will protect the integrity of sport across Australia by ensuring appropriate punishment is applied to all perpetrators.
There is no place for match fixing in the Northern Territory or in Australia, and no place for it in sport, particularly in the Northern Territory. Territorians want and expect our elite athletes and sporting competitions to remain clean.
Madam Speaker, I support this legislation and thank the Attorney-General for working with my office and bringing this on as quickly as possible.
Mr ELFERINK (Attorney-General and Justice): Madam Speaker, I thank honourable members for their contributions. It is, sadly, not often reported that in truth the majority of legislation that passes through a parliament is done so in a bipartisan fashion. Of course, there are no media headlines to be grabbed in that area. However, this is one of the majority of occasions where common sense prevails and good law is passed.
I will work my way from the general to the specific when dealing with some of the issues raised by members in this House. I will commence with the general comments made by the member for Nelson. The member for Nelson made the usually cautionary comments in relation to another human behaviour which, whilst enjoyable in the hands of most, is corrupting in the moral and psychological sense whilst in the hands of the few.
It is for that reason we have legislation around alcohol, betting practices, and governing all manner of conducts in our public environment. The question on this particular seesaw is not so much whether or not you have the legislation in place, but where you place the fulcrum to find the point of balance. Do we advertise alcohol? Yes we still do, but there are increasing moral questions about whether or not that is a good practice. Do we advertise cigarettes? We used to when I was a kid. ‘Anyhow, have a Winfield’ was etched on my mind when I was five years old. However, we no longer consider that an acceptable practice by virtue of the fact the third-party victim, the passive smoker, is an innocent victim of somebody else’s conduct.
Some would argue that in a household where alcohol or gambling practices were excessive there were third-party victims anyhow, and those are the social problems we have to wrestle with on a daily basis. The balance point of those particular scales is, and will always be, up for debate. I heard what the member for Nelson had to say in those areas, but they are general comments and not specific to the bill before the House.
I pick up on the member for Daly’s comments in relation to this reflecting the New South Wales legislation. I hope so, because it is intended to reflect the legislation of every jurisdiction in this country. That is part of the arrangement that was struck to bring this legislation before not only this House but all other jurisdictions so there is a coherent and understandable consistent approach across all jurisdictional boundaries. I commend the member for Daly for doing the research and noticing there is a correlation, because it is a deliberate and constructed correlation.
The member for Fannie Bay raised some interesting points, particularly in relation to the nature of these offences. Currently there are a number of offences on the statute book and within the common law that would deal with these sorts of things. If you were to take a common-law approach to something like a match-fixing event, you would find there would be a number of injunctive reliefs available to prevent something from occurring, or if you could demonstrate that as a result of some common-law fraud you had lost money, then that money could be restored to you in the way of damages. There is a common-law approach that applies in this area.
There are also legislative instruments across a raft of areas. In the racing and greyhound industries there are specific laws on the statute book which will cover the field for those industries. Alternatively, when you are dealing with a general criminal deception, which is the way the Criminal Code Act refers to frauds in the Northern Territory, then you have to deal with the issues of deceptive conduct leading to some type of fraudulent outcome. All of that is good and very general, and would cover this field already.
However, it is sometimes better to have very specific offences relating to specific types of conduct on the statute book for a number of reasons, not least of which is to ensure there is a substantial removal of doubt in any matter before a court. If a court is being asked to deal with fraud more generally, then it might be more difficult for a prosecution to prove the six varieties of conduct described in this instrument.
Getting back to some of the issues the member for Fannie Bay raised. He was asking questions and putting the hypothetical issues we often hear in this place: the what ifs? What if Bob, the forward for a hypothetical rugby team - let us say the NRL club Newtown - mutters to his mate one day, ‘I will be playing footy for the front row next week and I am really looking forward to that because I have not had a run for a while’ ...
Members interjecting.
Mr ELFERINK: Mate, I am a front rower; I know how I speak.
As a result of that, some fraudulent conduct occurs or, more specifically, he says, ‘I am not feeling really good this week’, which enables fraudulent conduct to occur. Then it involves a capacity for a third party to engage in some type of unlawful betting behaviour.
Match fixing is the process in which a person might encourage a sportsman to engage in that type of behaviour such as if somebody says to Bob, the front rower from Newtown, ‘Look mate, if you miss a couple of tackles it would be really useful’. The question was raised by the member for Fannie Bay as to where the criminality occurs along that scale. Is an innocent utterance match fixing?
The legislative instrument before the House still requires the fundamental principles of any criminal prosecution to apply. For arguments sake, one of the elements of any criminal prosecution, other than an offence of strict or absolute liability, of which these are neither, is you have to demonstrate something called mens rea, or intent. If the utterance by Bob, for argument’s sake, was made in ignorance - something entirely attributable to a front row forward or either code of rugby – then, ultimately, the elements of the offence would not be made out.
One of the points of proof you would have to clearly demonstrate to a court is that there was an intention to engage in some sort of fraudulent match-fixing type of conduct ...
________________
Visitors
Visitors
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Port Darwin, can you pause because we have in the gallery the Independent Associated Seed Graders Conference. Is that who you are? We welcomed you this morning, but welcome to Parliament House now and I hope you enjoy your time here.
Members: Hear, hear!
_________________
Mr ELFERINK: Sorry, who are they?
Madam SPEAKER: The Independent Associated Seed Graders Conference.
Mr ELFERINK: The Independent Associated Seed Graders Conference. Welcome to the parliament of the Northern Territory. I am about to bore you to tears with a …
Mr Giles: They are not the only ones. We have to suffer too.
Mr Vowles: At least they can get up and go.
Mr ELFERINK: You then have to demonstrate mens rea or intent, and that becomes an element of the offence. You will have to show the person intended to engage in the behaviour which ultimately led to the law being broken. That approach means a person who innocently makes some sort of utterance must, by necessity, not be covered by this legislation. That type of innocent utterance will not be covered.
You also have to understand that any prosecution must be proved beyond reasonable doubt by the party bringing the case into a court. Not only do you have to have all of the elements of the offence there, but it has to be provable beyond reasonable doubt.
If the prosecution sets out to do that, then it is still within the purview of the person charged to raise some defences which may be available to them under the Criminal Code Act in relation to how they may have made out the elements of the offence, but not acted in such a fashion as to have been acting reasonably. Then the defences identified in the Criminal Code Act are available.
I draw your attention to the provisions of Part 2AA in relation to those excuse provisions. They do not immediately read easily to the eye, but once you get your head around them you understand how they work and that they do protect the innocent or accused party within the criminal justice system. In relation to those issues, the criminal justice system still applies.
What this legislation does is identify six different types of behaviour which, by their very nature, attract a criminal sanction because they create victims. The sort of behaviour we are talking about is behaviour by members of the Indian cricket team and others, which has already been described in this House.
Regarding individuals - I return to the comments by the member for Nelson – unfortunately, you cannot control every individual. I know it is harder for a team than an individual to act in a corrupt fashion; nevertheless, we could not introduce a successful legislative instrument which would quarantine betting down to a certain level or class of people.
Wherever there is money there will be, in some form or another, corrupt activity or an attempt to engage in corrupt activity. Where there is property there will be theft. Where there is a game of chance there will be somebody who tries to bend that game to their advantage. This legislation is aimed at saying to those who will engage in this behaviour into the future that if you are caught, brought before a court of competent jurisdiction and found guilty, then as far as we are concerned as a society, as expressed through the unanimous will of this parliament, we will ask that court to put you in gaol for as long as seven years. That is a firm, strong and important message to send out.
The integrity of the systems surrounding games of chance are already policed through a number of legislative instruments, but they need to be protected through the vehicles available through the Criminal Code Act.
I wish to address one point made by the member for Fannie Bay. He talked about the jurisdictional issues that might arise. By way of example, if I understand the member for Fannie Bay correctly, if somebody bets on an event by making a telephone call, for arguments sake, from the Northern Territory on a game which is to be played in New South Wales, to a person, let us say in Western Australia, to place the bet in a Perth betting house on the result of that game in New South Wales, which area has jurisdiction? The answer is the one in which you committed the offence: where you made the telephone call from.
It is not inconceivable that two prosecutions can arise out of one phone call, one in the Northern Territory and another in New South Wales, because there is mirroring corresponding legislation on the other end of the line in accordance with New South Wales law. When I pick up the phone in the Northern Territory and engage in conduct which would be classified as match fixing, I am committing the offence in the Northern Territory. When the person in New South Wales picks up the phone and agrees to engage in match-fixing conduct, they are committing the offence in New South Wales. I hope that satisfies the jurisdictional question the member for Fannie Bay had. I note a quiet nod so I presume that is the case. As a consequence, I think I have covered off on the comments of all members.
Madam Speaker, I thank the minister for Sport for his assistance and support of this legislation during this process. I know he was struck by some of the information he gained whilst at the ASADA conference. I understand his desire to make sure we can demonstrate, not only to the people of the Northern Territory but to the people of the world, that we have a clean and trustworthy system in which to maintain a betting industry.
Motion agreed to; bill read a second time.
Mr ELFERINK (Attorney-General and Justice) (by leave): Madam Speaker, I move that the bill be now read a third time.
Motion agreed to; bill read a third time.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
Gas to Gove Update
Gas to Gove Update
Mr GILES (Chief Minister): Madam Speaker, I update the House on the gas to Gove project and the work this government is undertaking to support the continued operation of the Gove alumina refinery.
The Northern Territory government has proposed a new plan to get gas to Gove that is a win/win for taxpayers and Rio Tinto. I am pleased to report the Northern Territory government has led a number of productive discussions with all the key players, including Rio Tinto, the Commonwealth government, ENI Australia, Santos, the APA Group, and other members of the gas industry.
Before I go into detail on the current negotiations, it is important for everyone to be clear on why a new plan was needed. The need for a move away from heavy fuel to an alternative energy source has been an issue for the Gove alumina refinery for a long time. The use of heavy fuel has environmental issues and is costly. In addition, alumina prices have fallen and the cost of the refinery is sensitive to the movements of the Australian dollar.
In 2004, Alcan, the then operator of the refinery, signed a deal with Woodside to buy gas from Blacktip. Work commenced on the trans-Territory pipeline project to transport gas from Wadeye to Gove. Ultimately, this project did not proceed, with Alcan pulling out of the deal in 2005. At that time the Northern Territory government stepped in and secured Blacktip gas and the Northern Territory’s energy security. Alcan’s attention then turned to Papua New Guinea with Alcan announcing, in 2005, a tentative agreement with a proposed Papua New Guinea gas project led by ExxonMobil for a 20-year supply of natural gas, commencing in 2009.
In March 2007, Alcan announced the signing of a memorandum of understanding with Rift Oil PLC setting out the activity to further investigate a 20-year supply of gas to the refinery.
In October 2007, Rio Tinto acquired Alcan, took over the Gove operations and commenced an investigation into alternative energy sources to replace heavy fuel oil. In 2008, Rio Tinto approached the previous Northern Territory government outlining coal as a potential viable alternative to heavy fuel oil. It is understood this option was not favoured by the then Northern Territory government as coal would increase the level of carbon emissions which was inconsistent with the Northern Territory’s long-stated green credentials arising from fuelling nearly all of the Northern Territory’s power generation with natural gas.
This brings us back to the most recent proposal by Rio Tinto to secure an alternative energy source for the refinery. Rio Tinto asked the Northern Territory government to release 300 PJ of natural gas from the current contract between the Power and Water Corporation and ENI Australia. The request from Rio Tinto was originally made to the former Labor government in January 2012. Seven months later, in a letter dated 13 July 2012, the then Labor Chief Minister wrote to Rio Tinto and confirmed an amount of gas equal to approximately four years of supply, or 100 PJ, could be provided and the requested 10 years of supply to Rio Tinto could only proceed if Rio Tinto guaranteed replacement of the Northern Territory government’s contracted reserves. Rio Tinto rejected this offer.
The most recent proposal by Rio Tinto for the release of 300 PJ involved an estimated $1.65bn in capital investment made up of approximately $500m for ENI Australia to upgrade their Blacktip facilities to allow for flow of increased volumes of gas, $170m for Rio Tinto to convert the Gove alumina refinery to gas, $265m for ABP Bonaparte to expand the existing Bonaparte and Amadeus gas pipelines, and $720m for the construction of a new 603 km pipeline to connect Gove to the existing NT Amadeus gas pipeline approximately 20 km south of Katherine.
To enable the construction of the Katherine to Gove pipeline, Rio Tinto asked the Commonwealth government to underwrite financing of the construction of the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline. The Commonwealth government has not yet confirmed its support.
In relation to the ask of the Northern Territory government, the current gas contract between the Power and Water Corporation and ENI Australia is for the supply of 741 PJ of gas between 2009 and 2034. The Power and Water Corporation has a right to an additional 120 PJ of gas if additional gas is proven to exist. No additional gas so far has been proven exist.
We have already consumed almost 77 PJ, leaving 663 PJ of gas. The request to release 300 PJ of gas represents 45% of our remaining contracted proven gas supply. This has serious implications for the Northern Territory’s energy security, fiscal position, and the cost of living. That is why when the Northern Territory government announced in February this year it would support the continued operation of the refinery that this support was subject to a due diligence process. This is a standard and necessary business practice, one the Commonwealth government is still undertaking in relation to its support for the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline.
The Northern Territory government’s due diligence process looked at all options, including aggregating all available gas supplies, buying or swapping gas with customers of existing or planned facilities in the Northern Territory, and supplying gas to support the continued operation of the refinery on a combination of natural gas and heavy fuel oil.
The due diligence process also considered the economic and social impact on Gove and the East Arnhem region. My government understands the impact on the region, and this is why our key priority has always been to find a solution to support the continued operation of the refinery. The due diligence process was exhaustive, and at the end we engaged independent experts, Mr Doug McTaggart, a former Under Treasurer of Queensland, Chief Executive of QIC for 14 years, and Mr Daniel Magasanik, a respected international gas expert, to review all of the options again, including the risks of the Rio Tinto proposal to the Northern Territory.
The due diligence process revealed that the gas fields that were developed and currently producing gas were Blacktip in the Joseph Bonaparte Gulf, Mereenie in Central Australia, and Bayu-Undan in the offshore joint petroleum development area. The Blacktip gas field is operated by ENI Australia and the gas is contracted to Power and Water Corporation. Mereenie is operated by Santos, and has up to 78 PJ of gas, and Santos and Rio Tinto are currently negotiating a gas contract for that gas. Bayu-Undan is operated by ConocoPhillips for export as liquefied natural gas and all the proven gas reserves have been contracted.
The due diligence process identified other prospective gas fields; however, the due diligence process determined that these fields are unlikely to address financial and technical issues to provide a bankable gas source within the time frames set by Rio Tinto. Accordingly, the due diligence process also looked at the Rio Tinto request to the Northern Territory government to release 300 PJ of gas from the current contract between the Power and Water Corporation and ENI Australia. This volume of gas would only support the refinery for 10 years.
Part of the due diligence process saw the Northern Territory government undertake extensive negotiations with ENI Australia and Rio Tinto over the last seven months. Unfortunately these negotiations have not been able to adequately address the risks of releasing 300 PJ of gas from our current gas contract. The independent experts advise that the release of 300 PJ of gas was commercially unacceptable, notwithstanding the impact of closure of the Gove alumina refinery, and carries the greatest risks of all of the options investigated for the Northern Territory. These risks are:
a reduction in the gas supply period from Blacktip from 2034 to 2026
the price risks associated with finding new supplies of gas by 2026. This would cost around an additional $400m per year for eight years. These costs would need to be passed on, in part or in full, to households and businesses via significantly higher energy costs
In addition, as part of the negotiations with ENI and Rio Tinto, it became apparent there was no available uninterruptible shutdown gas to power the Northern Territory during the time ENI Australia would have to tie in the second well. ENI Australia estimated that the interruption to the Northern Territory’s gas supply would be for up to 90 days. These are significant risks that cannot be borne by the Northern Territory government or Northern Territory taxpayers.
The advice from the independent experts is that if the Northern Territory government were to proceed with the release of gas from the current gas contract, then the Northern Territory government must request a bankable underwriting agreement with the Commonwealth government to mitigate the risks to the Northern Territory
That is why on 13 June 2013 I wrote to the then Prime Minister, Hon Julia Gillard, asking her to support the Northern Territory government and, thereby, the release of 300 PJ of gas. Following the change in leadership on 1 July 2013, I wrote again to the Prime Minister, Hon Kevin Rudd, asking the Commonwealth government to support the Northern Territory government to release gas to support the ongoing operation of the refinery.
Written advice received from the Minister for Resources, Energy and Tourism, Hon Gary Gray, on 11 July 2013, on behalf of the Prime Minister, was that the Commonwealth government was not considering underwriting the potential impacts on the Northern Territory economy arising from the long-term gas price risk. This is despite the Commonwealth government’s confidence that additional gas supplies will be developed to meet the needs of the Territory.
On the basis that the Commonwealth government will not support Rio Tinto’s preferred proposal, the Northern Territory government and Rio Tinto commenced discussions on a supply of gas by the Northern Territory government to support the continued operation of the refinery on a combination of natural gas and heavy fuel oil until more gas becomes available on the market.
One of the concerns raised around the Northern Territory government’s new plan to support the continued operation of the refinery is sovereign risk. Before I address this concern, it is important to understand what sovereign risk means. In strict political and economic theory, sovereign risk refers to the risk that a government may default on its debt obligations. In more general usage, the understanding of the term has broadened to include investment risks attributable to, at the extreme end of the spectrum, revolution and civil war through to and including such matters as nationalisation of foreign assets, confiscation of property, and changes in government policy which impact significantly on existing investments.
I took advice from the Solicitor-General on this issue prior to government finalising its position on the gas sales agreement. He confirmed there were no sovereign risk issues arising.
What is clear is that the Northern Territory government has undertaken an exhaustive due diligence process to ensure the risks arising from Rio Tinto’s request, including the proposed commercial arrangements, are responsible and appropriate in all the circumstances. In fact, our reputational risk, had we not undertaken a thorough due diligence process, would have been significant given the advice from the independent experts that Rio Tinto’s request for the release of 300 PJ of gas would expose Northern Territory taxpayers to a $3.2bn gas pricing risk and the possibility of energy shortages in the longer term. Inevitably, this would see power prices pushed up for everyone in the Northern Territory.
Proceeding with this request would have been fiscally irresponsible, adding to the $5.5bn debt left by the former Labor government and clearly threatening our credit rating.
The new plan to support the continued operation of the refinery on a dual fuel basis provides a number of significant benefits for Rio Tinto, ENI Australia, the community, and the Northern Territory government. These benefits include an immediate reduction in the refinery’s current operation costs for energy. The existing arrangements with ENI are kept whole, and the costs and risks, including the shutdown of Blacktip for up to 90 days associated with the expanding Blacktip facilities and the Bonaparte gas pipeline, are avoided, and ENI brings forward sales of the already contracted gas from Blacktip.
The Northern Territory government considers that, strategically, the most significant benefit is the increased incentive for the Northern Territory gas market to respond to the long-term energy needs of the refinery. There is an immediate gas market for the heavy fuel oil the refinery continues to use, but there are also long-term needs for the refinery, the Power and Water Corporation, and other Territory projects.
The Northern Territory government will continue to work closely with Rio Tinto to encourage and facilitate new gas sources being brought into production as soon as possible to reduce the refinery’s reliance on heavy fuel oil.
At the meeting with Rio Tinto and the Commonwealth government on 1 August 2013, the Northern Territory government presented its proposed contribution to the dual fuel option consistent with the request that the Northern Territory government increased its commitment from 13 PJ to 15 PJ of gas per year, for up to 15 years.
The Northern Territory government does not have access to this quantity of gas under the proposal. We would have had a gas shortfall over the 15-year period of 95 PJ. The shortfall of gas was addressed through a gas buyback arrangement with Rio Tinto, priced to ensure there would be no increase in electricity tariffs for Territory businesses and the community. The proposal was rejected and Rio Tinto asked the Northern Territory government to put forward a proposal based on the volume of gas that could reasonably be made available to the refinery.
On 6 August 2013, the Northern Territory again met with Rio Tinto and the Commonwealth government, including the Export Finance and Investment Corporation, to discuss a draft proposal for the supply of 175 PJ of gas over a 15-year period to support the continued operation of the refinery. Under this revised arrangement, Rio Tinto will provide all of the heavy fuel required to power the refinery. After we power the Northern Territory, 175 PJ is all the spare gas we have. We are now offering it to provide the cheapest gas in Australia.
This is a significant commitment as it means the Northern Territory government will have to find new gas supplies for domestic use sooner than planned, to commence in 2031. The Northern Territory government is taking a significant risk, including future increases in electricity demand, the future availability and price of gas, and fixed gas transportation costs at the end of the shortened gas sales agreement with ENI.
In addition, the supply of all available gas to support the continued operation of the refinery may constrain the Northern Territory’s economic growth until new gas sources are available for planned and new projects in the Northern Territory. However, my government believes these risks are manageable and appropriate in all the circumstances. I believe the Northern Territory government’s new plan and the combination of up to 175 PJ of gas from the Northern Territory government and up to 78 PJ of gas - which is around 7.2 PJ per year - from Santos provides sufficient gas to support the continued operation of the refinery until further gas supplies are developed.
With the gas supply arrangement now on the table, the issue that needs immediate resolution is the Commonwealth government’s support for the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline. I wrote to the Prime Minister on 25 July 2013 advising him that in the absence of Commonwealth government support the parties were considering a dual fuel option which still required the Commonwealth government’s support for the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline. I again urged the Prime Minister to expedite his consideration of support for the Katherine to Gove gas pipeline.
On 29 July 2013, the shadow minister for Energy and Resources, Hon Ian Macfarlane, stated the federal Coalition’s support for the costs of the pipeline to get gas to Gove.
With the calling of the federal election, the Commonwealth government is now in caretaker mode and the Department of the Prime Minster and Cabinet has confirmed that the Commonwealth government’s support cannot be finalised until after the federal election on 7 September. Further, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet has indicated that the due diligence process being conducted by the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation is expected to be completed by the end of 2013. That is not good enough.
Madam Speaker, on 8 August 2013, Mr Sam Walsh, Chief Executive of Rio Tinto, announced that Pacific Aluminium, including the refinery, is not able to be sold at present and will be integrated back into the Rio Tinto Alcan group. We welcome this decision. I have requested a meeting with the new Acting Chief Executive and President of Rio Tinto Pacific Aluminium as soon as possible to personally brief him on the Northern Territory government’s gas supply proposal: a proposal I believe provides enough gas to support the continued operation of the refinery as Rio Tinto and the Northern Territory government work together to bring new gas sources into the market.
Madam Speaker, I move that the Assembly takes note of the statement.
Ms WALKER (Nhulunbuy): Madam Speaker, I thank the Chief Minister for bringing this statement before the House and providing an update on the debacle - the crisis - which he and his government have had a very big hand in creating.
I also thank the Chief Minster’s Office for the briefing provided to me and the Leader of the Opposition yesterday afternoon. I am not sure we received much new information or too many answers to the questions we had, but we at least had the opportunity to sit around the table. Unfortunately, not sitting around the table were the authors of the audited report who we had asked to be in attendance. Effectively, we had bureaucrats provide us that briefing and we still only had available to us the same executive summary the rest of the world has seen. As I said, there are a number of questions there.
The report makes it clear that under the original deal that has been ripped up under the new Chief Minister, Power and Water’s gas supplies were secured until 2026. The report only focuses on the worst-case scenario where the government is unable to source a single drop of gas in the next decade. This is not only the worst-case scenario, but a completely unrealistic scenario; many people hold that view. There is plenty of gas and the much greater likelihood is that the government would be able to secure plenty of gas at a competitive price beyond 2026.
Whilst this update the Chief Minister has just read to us is perhaps helpful to some, it is, in reality, very limited in providing some insight into what has occurred in the last 12 months of this government in trying to deal with this matter, including the recognition in the statement from the Chief Minister that prior to the August 2012 election the former Labor government was in negotiations with Pacific Aluminium trying to secure gas. This is contrary to mistruths from a certain member opposite who said the former government had done nothing. That is simply untrue and you know it.
I query how the Chief Minister can put this statement to the House. He can send letters to Gove residents’ and businesses’ letterboxes, he can publish a piece in our local newspaper, the Arafura Times which, like his letter and statement, have been written for him by minders, he can do a pre-recorded interview with the local radio station, Gove FM, but he cannot front up to the people of Gove. He can do all of that, but he will not front up to the people of Gove and talk to them directly about why he made the announcement he did cynically, politically, on a public holiday, when six months before that people thought their future was secure. I still ask him to come to Gove, meet with people and talk about why offering less gas was a better deal on the table and a win/win.
That thinking and logic is about as bizarre as saying that Territorian problem drinkers running away from newly-established mandatory alcohol treatment facilities is proof the policy is working. That is the same type of logic the Chief Minister is using at the moment.
At the start of his statement he said this government has led productive discussions with all the key players. All, it seems, with the exception of the people who live in Gove, raise their families there, work there and, for Gove’s business owners, people who have invested very heavily there. They have invested their lives there, and reinvested into their businesses following the certainty offered in February’s announcement by the former Chief Minister, the member for Blain, that gas had been secured: an announcement made with the full approval and support of Cabinet, of which the current Chief Minister was a member.
The fact remains that the Chief Minister will not face up to the people of Gove; he will not talk to them directly. He made no mention of a visit to Gove in this update and, quite clearly, is avoiding the place. It is not only me who thinks this, everyone thinks this. This is especially so of people who live in Gove, which is why there are, so far, 1000 and counting signatures on a petition of residents and supporters asking the Chief Minister to step out to Gove, work quickly to resolve this issue and restore confidence to the people in Gove, and recognise the contribution they make not only to the town, but to the region and the contribution to the whole of the Northern Territory.
When the Chief Minister was interviewed on ABC TV news, which he must have done on his visit to Maningrida - funny how he could not get to Gove but had all the time in the world to spend a day in Maningrida and meet with the locals. On the ABC news report he looked very cranky when asked when he was going to Gove. He said he would go to Gove when it suited him, and he would not be going to Gove to be screamed at by Labor Party officials.
What a strange way to describe the good citizens of Gove. Who exactly does he think he will meet with there? I will be there. I am the only Labor Party person who would be screaming at him, yelling at him if I had to. What does he have to say about the rest of the community? The sheer arrogance is simply appalling. Where does he get off? Why is he being so petulant about facing up to the people of Nhulunbuy? Why can he not show some leadership qualities, suck it up, get on a plane, and get to Gove and meet with people? I will tell you why not: because he is not up to the job.
The member for Namatjira labelled him a ‘little boy’ and perhaps she is right. He is behaving like a little boy because we are not seeing the behaviour of a leader of the Northern Territory; we are seeing childish and petulant behaviour from somebody who should be displaying leadership qualities.
We know he pulled out of his scheduled visit to Garma on Saturday 11th. No one buys his pathetic excuse that he did not go to Garma because he was not invited. He did not go to Garma because he was too scared to face people and scared that he would be asked hard questions.
Of course, he was invited to Garma; his name is in the program booklet. The CLP bush members were supposed to be there as well. Where were they …
Ms Lee: I was there.
Ms WALKER: Yes, the member for Arnhem was there. So she should be, for all the taxpayers’ money she spends on fuel. I gave her a wave. Funnily enough, she did not give me a wave back. I did not hear her talk at a forum but she was quick to get in the photographs when the cameras came out with Tony Abbott there.
Where were they? I saw the member for Arnhem but I did not see the member for Stuart ...
Ms Lee interjecting.
Ms WALKER: I did not see the member for Namatjira or the member from the Tiwi Islands, the member for Arafura. A number of my Indigenous constituents and others there were looking for you. They wanted to ask you why you have turned your back and betrayed them. I am talking about TOs who have signed up to a certain deal, an investment and a future, and the rug has been pulled out from beneath their feet.
There is simply too much at stake: so much at stake that I am sure the member for Arnhem, who is this white noise going on beside me, will be participating in this debate because, of course, her electorate and her people stand to benefit from gas to Gove. She represents people in East Arnhem Land for whom this gas pipeline has some history. The people across East Arnhem Land will benefit when we get a secure and long-term energy supply into Gove to keep the place going.
As I said, it is not just about the town or the region, it is about the contribution made to the whole of the Northern Territory. There is so much at stake.
Several years ago I was working for the company. It was my employer for nearly 12 years during the phase of surveying a corridor to bring the gas pipeline from Katherine to Gove. There was a terrible accident that saw a helicopter go down with several people killed ...
Mrs Lambley interjecting.
Ms WALKER: It is not funny, it is heartbreaking, member for Araluen …
Mrs Lambley interjecting.
Ms WALKER: Member for Araluen, I am talking about people who were killed in a helicopter accident. I am talking about people who were involved in this project: a traditional owner, a pilot I had known for a number of years - and his family, I taught his kids - who were killed in that accident.
Because a certain amount of work had already been done in surveying that corridor, this project is already reasonably well advanced. That survey has been done, an EIS is under way, and there have been plenty of well-advanced negotiations around the gas pipeline. What we need is the security and knowledge that there is a gas supply.
I am on the record previously stating that Rio Tinto and their previous owners Nabalco and Alcan are not without blame in this process. They made commercial decisions as to how they spent money. They have been in MOUs for gas supplies over the years. They recognised they needed to switch to an energy source which is cheaper with less environmental liabilities, and political liabilities given their current fuel source comes from the Middle East.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. They should have done this a number of years ago; the reality is they did not and now they find themselves in a very difficult position.
The Northern Territory is in a position to provide assistance and to work with them to secure a gas supply, which is what they did in February. Just a few months after that, that deal was removed and an alternative deal - not a better deal, a worse deal - was put on the table. Of course, being in caretaker mode now ahead of a federal election, we will not be hearing much about this because it is highly unlikely we will see the company, during this very political period, going into those sorts of negotiations.
Let me give some advice to the Chief Minister for if and when he goes to Gove to meet with traditional owners, business owners, families, children, sporting organisations and all the people who have written him and put their signature to this petition so far; there are around 1000 signatures. On the strength of what we witnessed at a disastrous so-called community meeting at the Walkabout Lodge at 3 pm on Monday 29 July with the Deputy Chief Minister, I offer some advice. If the Chief Minister gets to Gove, do not issue a media release the day of the meeting to advise you are coming to reassure locals about the gas to Gove deal, as the Deputy Chief Minister did, and fail to mention where the meeting will be held and at what time. Do not front up to a meeting with political candidates and political mates from Canberra. Do not allow a politician to chair the forum. Ensure you find someone who is independent and at arms’ length from the process. Do not front up with an attitude which is contemptuous and dismissive towards those present. Do not start the meeting with a political pitch, telling them that if they vote for the Coalition their town will be saved. Do not presume to understand the political affiliations of those present, and definitely do not address the crowd as the Lynne Walker fan club; it will offend people.
Do not time your meeting to coincide with a CLP $100-a-head fundraising dinner for two reasons: (1) it will make everyone very suspicious about your motives for being there, and (2) you will not make a cent; in fact, you will lose money. Ask those who attended a dinner set up for 80 which was attended by just 10, more than half of whom were the travelling pollies show, three from the Chamber of Commerce, and one local business owner.
I have more advice for the Chief Minister about how not to run this consultation. Do not bother bringing the member for Namatjira, even though she is the Minister for Regional Development. She is next to useless and people are angry with her. She also pulls out of events like this, because the moment she thinks there might be some heat in the kitchen she will be the first out the door. The Deputy Chief Minister came to Gove that day because the member for Namatjira spat the dummy the night before and said, ‘No, I am not going, that is yours’.
Good on the member for Fong Lim, he does not mind a bit of a stoush; he is not afraid to front up to a group of people. He handled it all wrong, but at least he was there. It was better than nothing, but you did it, member for Fong Lim. The member for Namatjira would not have handled that situation at all. Good on you. You might have a word with the Chief Minister and tell him that you did it. ‘Come on, Adam, you can do it. Front up to Gove. We will make sure we organise the meeting better this time around, and I am sure it will be better for you.’
Why not take a leaf out of the book of the member for Blain, the former Chief Minister, who did communicate face-to-face with the people of Nhulunbuy and the region? Admittedly, it took a couple of months before he got there, but he made phone contact with people following a conversation I had with him one evening. Then he came to Nhulunbuy in mid-January. It was an orderly, well-facilitated meeting. People had an opportunity to hear the update. I said to him prior to his arrival, ‘You do not have to arrive with an answer, but the fact that you arrive to talk with people about what you know so far and to listen to their concerns will be enough’. He did that. Well done to the member for Blain. People admired him for that. People thought he displayed leadership qualities in doing that.
Given what the member for Blain has been through in this saga, I am sure it is tearing him up as much as it tears me and the people in Gove up, to see what has happened in the last few weeks and to have all of this undone. I congratulate the member for Blain for going out on a limb and publishing an opinion piece in the NT News on 8 August. The people in Gove, when they read this, thought, ‘Good on him’. He has offered a different view to the rest of his government. Given he was the individual driving these negotiations towards the end of last year and through to a successful conclusion - or so we thought - in February, I congratulate him for submitting this piece to the NT News.
He made some interesting comments about risk which I want to put on the public record:
- To justify Cabinet’s ‘new plan’ by elevating a risk exposure of $3.2bn as fact sells the Territory very short and takes a very short-term political view of risk.
Confidence is eroded when we send mixed messages. Big talk of a ‘gas future’, ‘huge reserves’ and being ‘open for business’ is contradicted by a cautious approach to planning and decision-making.
The $3.2bn risk is, and always was, a worst-case scenario based around there being ‘no usable gas’ between now and 2026 or 2028 - 13 to 15 years from now!
He went on to say:
- Risk is transferred on to the future of a refinery, a regional economy, the expansion to the domestic gas market, the construction of a 600 km pipeline.
Do not dismiss out of hand the words written in that opinion piece in the NT News by the member for Blain because there is an awful lot of truth in them. Those on the opposite side who thought there was truth in them have now changed their minds.
That threat of closure is incredibly real for the people in Gove; it is real and it is frightening. Where is the report on the economic and social impact which the Chief Minister refers to in his statement? He said:
The due diligence process also considered the economic and social impact on Gove and the East Arnhem region.
Where is this report? Why do you not release it? What are you trying to hide? The fact is there is no report. The auditor’s report states, on page 3:
- The economic and social costs of such an outcome are difficult to quantify but are likely to be large and concentrated in the Gove/Nhulunbuy local region. It is estimated that closing the refinery would likely reduce the Nhulunbuy population from around 4000 to just 1500, with a significant negative impact on the local Indigenous population.
I can only guess what the economic and social impact might be on the population of Gove if the refinery were to close and a win/win gas deal was not secured. Let us start with closure of schools which are already having resources and teachers removed. We would go from having one of the largest primary schools in the Northern Territory, with a current population of students of around 600, to having one of the smaller ones. It is doubtful that the high school could remain a comprehensive high school. In fact, the two schools might combine, as they were many years ago, as an area school with no senior schooling options.
Where would that leave Nhulunbuy Christian College which has invested heavily through the NT Christian Schools Association in the past 15 years or so, taking something like 170 students from transition through to Year 9? What happens to that school? What happens to the investment it has put into that place? They came to see me in December towards the end of the schooling year, unsure of what the future might hold.
How would a community of our size sustain two existing childcare centres? As it is, numbers are down. The owners of the Arnhem Early Learning Centre, which opened its doors in 2008, are already struggling. They recently terminated the cleaning contract at their centre and the owners are now there every evening cleaning the place.
What about health services? There would not be a need for a 30-bed hospital, so which of the two wards would close? My guess would be maternity. The 200-plus babies born in Gove every year, supported by brilliant nurses and doctors with obstetrics training, would become a thing of the past and women would have to come to Darwin for deliveries.
I am one of those women. My three children were born at Gove District Hospital. Unpalatable as it would be to have to come to Darwin, it would be all the worse that when you came into Darwin and could not stay at the medi-hotel.
Maybe one of the wards at Gove District Hospital could be converted to a rehab facility. Have you thought about that, Health minister? I bet you have ...
Mrs Lambley: You are a disgrace.
Ms WALKER: If maternity services were to go, theatre services would go as well. I am not a disgrace, member for Araluen ...
Mrs Lambley: You are a disgrace!
Ms WALKER: You tell me about the social and economic impacts stated in the auditor’s report which would see a community drop from 4000 to 1500 people. What happens to health services, member for Araluen, in that scenario? What happens to a 30-bed facility? What happens to theatre suites? What happens to delivery suites? You have created …
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Nhulunbuy, please address your comments through the Chair.
Ms WALKER: Happily. The member for Araluen has form in this area. She is a hypocrite like you would not believe. I do not have it in front of me, but I put it on record yesterday ...
Mr TOLLNER: A point of order, Madam Speaker! That was an unparliamentary comment and I ask that the member withdraws it.
Ms Walker: Hypocrite?
Mr TOLLNER: That is a bridge too far. Call her as many names as you like, but do not throw those allegations around.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Nhulunbuy, could you withdraw that comment, please?
Ms WALKER: I reluctantly withdraw, Madam Speaker.
The member for Araluen, the Minister for Health, told us we have nothing to worry about in Gove. ‘There will be no impact on health services if your community goes from a population of 4000 to 1500.’ Which parallel universe is she living in? How would a community of that size sustain a health service catered and funded for a population of the size it is now? She is in la la land.
She is not up to the job either. No wonder she lost the job as Treasurer. She was hopeless at it, and is on the record in February saying what a wonderful job the member for Blain did as the Chief Minister in securing gas to Gove. She is silent now, like the rest of her colleagues, eyes downcast. It is all a little too uncomfortable when we talk about gas to Gove and the fact she was at the Cabinet table and approved it, and is part of the government that has backflipped on it. Shame on her! I am not scaremongering, I am speaking the truth. Why not come to Gove, talk to people, and deal with the people who are scared about what their future holds. Shame on you!
Apart from health services, how does a town of our size sustain two supermarkets? What about the town’s two accommodation businesses, the Walkabout Lodge and the Gove Peninsula Motel? Will there be enough business to keep them both operating and viable for the long term? I do not know. Perhaps the Minister for Business should ask the owner of the Walkabout Lodge he appointed to his business council what he thinks of that. What of training and employment opportunities in this shrinking community and, with it, a shrinking economy? What will this mean for the Yolngu population which is not going anywhere? Is it that the member for Namatjira’s Strategic Indigenous Employment Strategy has an answer to that?
Without gas to Gove and a reduction of 2500 people, what would that do to the social fabric of the town, not just the economic fabric of the town? What about our tennis club? Tennis Australia has written to the Chief Minister about the impact of the loss of gas to Gove and the potential closure of the refinery would have on the town, and we are looking at the worst-case scenario. The government is looking at the worst-case scenario - no gas - so the community has to look at the worst-case scenario of losing 2500 people from our community. We have one of the biggest tennis clubs in the Northern Territory. It was Australia’s Tennis Club of the Year for the last two years. We have a massive netball club, a squash club, and a huge junior football club. Every Friday afternoon, Hindle Oval has hundreds of kids lined up playing game after game, entirely run by volunteers.
What about our BMX Club celebrating 30 years this year and due to host the NT titles next year? What about the Gove Peninsula Surf Lifesaving Club, an amazing volunteer organisation? What does it mean for their recent investment, thousands and thousands of dollars rebuilding their club following a disastrous fire, with some of those dollars coming from government? What about our golf club which is already struggling? I know. I will tell them to write to the member for Greatorex, the Sports minister, and see if they can get a $300 000 handout. What about Arafura Dance, one of the biggest dance schools in the Northern Territory?
This is not an exhaustive list of sporting and recreation organisations in Nhulunbuy. The fact members opposite laugh, sneer, and accuse me of scaremongering - you need to get out of the fifth floor. You need to talk to people face-to-face and you will see it is not just me who tells these stories and has these fears; it is very real in the community.
This update gives no assurance to the people of Gove that their future is safe. There is a growing sense the CLP government has turned its back on Gove and does not care …
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I move that the member be granted an extension of time, pursuant to Standing Order 77.
Motion agreed to.
Ms WALKER: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I have nearly finished.
There is a growing sense the CLP government has turned its back on Gove, does not care about Gove, and that the people of Gove are being punished because it is not a CLP-held seat. That is not helped by a minister of the Crown accusing a group of people of being the Lynne Walker fan club. They feel very much that they are being punished because it is not a CLP-held seat.
This statement changes nothing for me, nor the people I represent. We still call on the Chief Minister to come and meet with people. We call on the Chief Minister to come to Gove. We will give him a briefing about what life is like there. I also invite the member for Araluen to come. I will call a community meeting of all women expecting to have babies in the next 10 years, and she can tell us what we can expect of health services ...
Mrs Lambley: We will not be reducing health services in Gove, member for Nhulunbuy.
Ms WALKER: I look forward to you putting that on the record. You are a ridiculous woman, you are a fool, and small wonder you are not the Treasurer!
Mr VATSKALIS (Casuarina): Madam Speaker, it seems as if the members opposite wish this statement would go away because no one is standing to speak about it. It is a very important statement. However, it is very interesting.
Yesterday the Treasurer, the member for Fong Lim, accused us of being communists because we were wearing red ties. Stalin would be very proud of you and your colleagues for the way you photoshopped Terry Mills out of anything to do with gas to Gove and erased any possible memory of the previous Chief Minister of the Northern Territory who secured a gas deal for Gove.
I recall very well that when I was growing up in Greece we knew about the change in the Soviet leadership by watching the front page of Pravda, to see who was in the photograph, who was photoshopped out and whose name was erased. This statement is a classic example of Soviet manipulation in erasing people’s memory of anything that had to do with some of the more significant events in the Northern Territory.
Politically, I differ from the member for Blain, Mr Terry Mills, on many things. However, I congratulate him for is his foresight, bravery and the risk he took to rescue not only the operation of a significant industry of the Northern Territory, but also the township of Gove. My colleague, the member for Nhulunbuy, quite rightly questioned what will happen if the refinery in Gove closed.
I note the member for Araluen, the current Health minister, disputed her assertions that if the township of Gove reduced its population, our hospital will be the same. I ask her to look at Tennant Creek. What were the hospital and health services in Tennant Creek like when it was booming through the mining industry, and what are they like today? You will see there is a significant difference because you and your bureaucrats would not be able to justify the expenditure for a hospital in a township of only 1500 people.
This is a very important issue, not only for Gove but for the whole Territory. When the Chief Minister of the Territory, or any jurisdiction, stands in public and makes a commitment to a company to provide a service or gas, he has made a verbal contract. Terry Mills stood in public, on television - I watched him - and said he would provide 300 PJ to Pacific Aluminium to keep the operation in Gove. That is a verbal contract by a Chief Minister, who is the supreme authority in a jurisdiction.
Quite rightly, if Pacific Aluminium wanted it could take the Northern Territory government to court for breach of contract. I spent quite a time studying commercial law, and I know very well what does or does not constitute a verbal contract. If the current Chief Minister asked his legal officers to look at it, he would probably get a very unpleasant surprise.
Look at the whole history. I was also involved in the gas to Gove negotiations, and I met a number of times with the then CEO of Pacific Aluminium in my office in Darwin to discuss the possibility of providing gas to Gove so the refinery could change from heavy fuel, which was not only polluting but uneconomical, to a cleaner and more economic and efficient fuel: gas.
Our government constituted a task force to look at the issues with gas to Gove, Pacific Aluminium remaining at Gove, and the grim scenario of what would happen if Pacific Aluminium decided to maintain the mine in Gove, mining the bauxite but not processing it to alumina in Gove, closing down the smelter.
Nobody mentioned that most of the power in Gove is provided by the power generated at the Gove facilities of Pacific Aluminium, and most of that power goes to the refinery. Should the refinery close, do you believe there would be a power station sufficient to provide energy to Gove and the surrounding areas? There would not; it would be downgraded. That means that somebody has to fill the gap, and that has to be Power and Water. What would be the expenditure to the government to replace the lost power in Gove and its surrounds? Nobody spoke about it, but it is something you have to consider, Minister for Essential Services.
We have heard many arguments about the social and economic analysis. My colleague, the member for Nhulunbuy asked for it to be tabled. Here is a challenge: table it! Show people in the Territory the economic and social analysis that has been done for Gove. My suspicion is that no analysis was done; it was just a guesstimate.
If you provided 300 PJ to Gove, to the Pacific Aluminium refinery, the price of power would go up. Hold on a minute! Most of you who are currently in Cabinet were in Cabinet then; that debate took place in Cabinet. I know, I was a member of Cabinet. You all decided and agreed to provide 300 PJ of gas to Gove. If there were some concerns then, why did you not raise them? You let your then Chief Minister go public and commit the Northern Territory government to provide 300 PJ of gas to Gove.
These are questions people in the Territory should ask you. Are you just following orders? Can you think for yourselves? I thought you were elected to represent your people in the Northern Territory. You have every right and obligation to say, ‘That is not a good deal, we do not agree’.
The Chief Minister is one member of Cabinet; I believe your Cabinet has eight or nine members. If six or seven of you objected, it would not be a brave Chief Minister who would speak out. It is funny because you all agreed, then you waited for him to go to Japan and stab him in the back. A few days later, you came out with a new plan not for 300 PJ but only 175 PJ, and you make all these excuses why it could not be done: it could increase power prices, and the Territory would have a problem with gas supply in the future. Will it? Is it true?
Power and Water signed an agreement with ENI for the supply of 740 PJ of gas, with the possibility of an extra 120 PJ, so gas is covered. I am also aware that the current consumption of gas by Power and Water is 25 PJ. If you have a contract with ENI for 25 years, 25 by 25 makes 625 PJ. It would probably be less in the future because turbines become more efficient and use less gas to produce more energy. From 625 PJ it would leave you another 120 PJ. We know Santos has negotiated with Pacific Aluminium for 78 PJ. That makes it 198 PJ. The difference between that and the 300 PJ is another 100 PJ.
Armour Energy discovered gas in McArthur Basin. Armour Energy discovered enough gas, and continues to discover gas, to supply the Northern Territory industry. Where are your negotiations with these people to see if you can put a package together to provide Pacific Aluminium, or Rio Tinto since they have been absorbed into the company, with the necessary gas?
The other thing that is suspicious is you announced on Friday, Chief Minister, that there is not enough gas for Rio Tinto. Surprise, surprise! On Monday Ian Macfarlane was in Gove telling people, ‘There is nothing to worry about, guys. If we come into government we will find the gas.’ Where from? He said he would underwrite the pipeline. Of course he would.
Gary Gray said the same to me. He is a good friend of mine; I know him from Western Australia. When I asked him if the Northern Territory government had spoken to him about underwriting the pipeline he said, ‘What are you talking about? We already said we are underwriting the pipeline.’
Now the Northern Territory government is changing the whole thing, it has to change ...
Mr Westra van Holthe: Are you being perfectly honest, Kon?
Mr VATSKALIS: Do not take my word for it; talk to the member for Blain because, as Chief Minister, he spoke to the federal government about underwriting the pipeline. Find out what the discussion between the member for Blain and the minister for Resources, Gary Gray, was ...
Mr Westra van Holthe: Perhaps you have just misinterpreted.
Mr VATSKALIS: It might be that you want to misinterpret it for political reasons. It was very obvious when watching the news that night. What immediately came to my mind, and to the minds of many of the people in Gove, was the whole thing was a very good opportunity to get some votes from the people in Lingiari for your own purpose. It was so amateurish and so obvious that people did not fall for it; they saw it for what it was.
That was why you copped that reception that night. I remember the uncomfortable faces of Ian Macfarlane and the other candidate sitting at the table when the Treasurer was speaking. The atmosphere was so hot. The Treasurer accused the people of being the Lynne Walker fan club. They were not; they were people who saw that their life savings, their investment, their future and the opportunity was going down the gurgler because you did not keep the word the Northern Territory government gave to Pacific Aluminium. It was not Terry Mills who gave his word, it was not the Chief Minister, it was the Northern Territory government. When a government changes its word halfway through, it sends shivers through the people who invest in the Northern Territory or any other jurisdiction in Australia.
I can understand that policy changes when government changes. I have been in the Territory for 20 years and never before have I seen a change of policy because the Chief Minister changed while the same government remained in power. This is what people consider to be a serious sovereign risk, and they will think twice before they invest in the Northern Territory.
Mark my words, when the Fraser Institute survey comes out next year, the Northern Territory will not be at the same level it has been in the past few years, for the simple reason that with one single action you have sent a strong message, ‘It does not matter what we said before, we can change our mind tomorrow and we can change the rules of the game’. If you can do that with the supply of gas that was promised by a Chief Minister, how can you guarantee you will not change the regulations or rules with, for example, exploration tenements, mining tenements, or water allocations? How can people invest in a jurisdiction when internal change in the government can change the whole situation? That is the issue.
The member for Nhulunbuy spoke about Gove. It affects her area, but it is more than just the township of Gove. Currently we have schooling providing services to the township and the surrounding areas. We have a hospital that provides services to the township and surrounding areas. We have Indigenous people working in Indigenous enterprises which provide supply to the mine. We have people investing and conducting businesses based on the existence of the mine.
If you cut the population in half the size of the school will reduce and it will be unable to provide the service it provides today to the population of East Arnhem Land. You will reduce the health services and hospital services so every person living in the township or in the area will be negatively affected.
The future of Gove will be bleak if, tomorrow, Pacific Aluminium calls your bluff and tells you it is closing the refinery. The reality is it could do it somewhere else with a more accommodating government, and more easily. I have no problem with you standing firm on some of the demands they put forward. They have put the same demands to us. They wanted to bring in coal and convert the refinery to a coal-fired power station which we objected to because we thought it was a step backwards. The same thing happened with the CLP government when they built the Channel Island station. The original idea was to use coal but they decided to convert to gas. It was a forward-thinking position.
I do not have a problem with standing firm and objecting to some of the demands, but I have a serious problem when you backtrack and change something promised by your own CLP government and the CLP Chief Minister.
I praised the member for Blain for his forward thinking. Offering 300 PJ to Pacific Aluminium and keeping the refinery there creates the opportunity for companies to invest in the Territory for gas exploration. A number of companies are looking for gas in the Territory; Central Petroleum is one. Will they find gas? Santos invested $150m in their tenement to assist in the exploration program. Do you really believe Santos would do that if they were not confident they will find gas?
Armour Energy is the other one in the McArthur Basin. Hess in the Beetaloo Basin …
Mr Giles: Hess is no longer there. Get up to speed.
Mr VATSKALIS: They keep pulling in and out. Falcon Petroleum is one continuous exploration. If you look at the …
Members interjecting.
Mr VATSKALIS: Ask your colleague, the Minister for Mines and Energy, to provide you with a briefing about the structure of Beetaloo Basin, some of the structures in the McArthur Basin and the area we set up to resume, and you will find out if there is gas or not.
Of course, let us not forget ENI was planning to start exploration around Blacktip in the tenements they still own. In 2004-05, when I visited Woodside in Perth when they still owned Blacktip, they gave me a briefing and showed me a 3D display of Blacktip. They were certain there would be more gas there to be exploited. The only thing they had not done was deep exploration. ENI is about to commence that.
The member for Blain, by his actions, was not only assisting Pacific Aluminium, he was calling on companies from all over the world to invest in the Territory. How many do you believe will come now? You backtracked, you did not keep your promise, and you changed the rules of the game halfway through. You would have to be a real fool to invest in the Territory if you cannot trust the government to keep the same rules and conditions throughout the game.
Gas to Gove is a really sad saga. The member for Blain did something right. I am not the only one to say that; some members opposite said it. The member for Araluen stood up and proudly said:
- He has clinched the deal to provide great security for the people of Nhulunbuy and people across the Northern Territory. More than anything, it opens the door to greater economic prosperity and growth – what this government is all about.
That was the Terry Mills government. The current Adam Giles government is not about jobs or growth, it is about playing political games.
Mr Deputy Speaker, we spent time trying to promote the Territory as a place to invest for mining exploration, oil and gas. It is amazing that in only one day Adam Giles closed that door to investment by sending out a very strong message.
I have had a few differences with the member for Namatjira, but I have to say you got it right. You are right calling Adam Giles a ‘little boy’.
Mr TOLLNER (Deputy Chief Minister): Mr Deputy Speaker, I have not heard so much nonsense in this House for a long time.
The member for Casuarina is clearly out of touch. Hess has not operated in the Northern Territory for some time now. If it is so easy for Armour Energy to supply gas to Nhulunbuy, I am sure Pacific Aluminium, now Rio Tinto, would have taken up those negotiations fairly quickly. However, they have not.
Yesterday we had a bizarre censure motion from the Leader of the Opposition focused around gas and the way the Chief Minister had lied to the people of the Northern Territory, how he was corrupt, how he was crooked and so on, and the greatest disservice that has ever been done to the people of the Northern Territory.
Today the Leader of the Opposition has not even listened to the debate; she is not here. All of a sudden, there was all of this stuff yesterday about the great …
Mr VATSKALIS: A point of order, Madam Speaker! The member knows very well he cannot reflect on the presence of a member in this Chamber.
Mr TOLLNER: I have not referred to her not being in the Chamber, but I am glad you have pointed that out, member for Casuarina. I am saying she has not participated in this debate.
Mr VATSKALIS: Mr Deputy Speaker, clearly, the Treasurer said she is not here. He has not been here for quite a few debates; if he wants to go down that path, I am quite happy to start pointing it out.
Mr TOLLNER: I do not mind whether she is here or not, the fact is she is not participating in the debate. There was all this fire and brimstone yesterday about what mongrels we are on this side but not boo from her today. She has not been heard in this debate. You would think that when the Chief Minister delivers a statement on such an important topic as gas to Gove the first speaker on their feet on the other side would be his opposite number: namely, the Opposition Leader. However, she is clearly not listening, not providing input to the debate and has no interest in the matter. You have to scratch your head and ask why. Was yesterday just a farce, a bit of a show put on for the team? You could be forgiven for that. Or was there something else?
Maybe she got a briefing. Maybe she has a better understanding of the situation now than she did yesterday. I hazard a guess it is probably a mixture of both: (1) now she realises the government could have been exposed to enormous risk and it is probably not the right thing to just wade in leading with your chin; and (2) she was dead-set keen on hamming things up yesterday to try to interfere with the government’s agenda and the statement the Chief Minister wanted to make in relation to Framing the Future. That is what that was all about yesterday.
Having listened to the two speakers of the opposition, the thing that surprised me is there has not been an alternative suggested. It is, ‘Oh well, the former Chief Minister did a great job, the current Chief Minister somehow reneged on that, and that is all terrible’. However, as far as them offering any alternative, there has not been any offer. When you ask what Labor’s alternative is, it is to do nothing. It always was to do nothing.
The former Chief Minister, Paul Henderson, was asked by Pacific Aluminium to step in and help, and he made some paltry effort to suggest, ‘We might be able to give you a four-year supply’. Four years supply of gas was no offer at all; he knew it and the government at the time knew it. There was no way they were going to put at risk the future energy needs of all Territorians to satisfy what they saw as a multinational company at Gove which should be able to look after itself ...
Mr Styles: Is that why the member for Nhulunbuy did not ask any questions?
Mr TOLLNER: Absolutely. I pick up on that interjection from the Minister for Infrastructure. The member for Nhulunbuy has been silent on this for five years; she has not said boo on this matter. I have heard more in the last two days from the member of Nhulunbuy in relation to anything to do with her electorate than I have in the last five years. All of a sudden she is jumping up, crying crocodile tears about what is going on in Gove, but not once in five years has she pleaded the case for the community of Nhulunbuy or the region in which she lives.
The previous Labor government had no intention of doing anything for that community. I pay tribute to our former Chief Minister, the member for Blain because, unlike the former government he was prepared to have a look. Not just have a look, but have a red-hot crack at trying to build a future for the people of that region. Good on the guy. I have always supported him for that because he cares about what goes on in the Northern Territory - not just in Palmerston, but in the whole of the Northern Territory. He took an interest very early in the Nhulunbuy community: in the future of people who work at that refinery and live in the community. He made some commitments saying, ‘Yes, this is what we want to do. Of course we want to help the company.’ The deal always had a few hairs over it; 300 PJ of gas for the Northern Territory was a big deal. We never had 300 PJ of gas to hand over; it always would require some aggregation from other sources. The former Chief Minister, the member for Blain, went to every effort to secure that 300 PJ. There was project risk; we knew that. However, in fairness, the former Chief Minister always said a due diligence test had to be done around the whole matter.
That is exactly what happened and that is what the Cabinet wanted to see happen. We were alarmed when the information came back about the levels of risk and the uncertainty it would provide to, not just the Northern Territory government, but all citizens in the Northern Territory.
The member for Nhulunbuy suggested the federal Labor government is prepared to back this project. What nonsense! On 9 July, the federal minister, Gary Gray, the very good friend of the member for Casuarina, wrote to the Chief Minister, and his letter said:
- The Commonwealth government understands the legitimate concerns your government has regarding the energy security and price risks that may be created by agreeing to make gas from this contract available for the refinery.
That is the first point; the Commonwealth government understands the situation we are in. He went on to say:
- I commend your economically sound decision to not implement a gas reservation policy which will help ensure exploration and development continues. The Commonwealth is confident the commercial incentive to develop and supply gas into a known and expanding market will be more than enough to bring on long-term gas supply. It is for this reason that the Commonwealth is considering …
I highlight the word ‘considering’:
- … taking on the risk of providing a loan guarantee to finance the construction of the pipeline.
He said:
- At the same time the connection of gas to Gove cannot be at unlimited cost to the Commonwealth and the people of the Northern Territory. Any arrangement that leads to supply shortages or significant price increases for other businesses and the citizens of the Northern Territory would be an unacceptable outcome.
- In regard to your specific request for Commonwealth support, the Commonwealth is not considering underwriting the potential impacts on the Northern Territory economy arising from long-term gas price risks.
This is a fact. If you go through the letter he has written you see he understands the situation the Northern Territory finds itself in. He says, ‘All right, we are prepared to underwrite the financing of the pipeline, but no way known are we prepared to underwrite the risk the Northern Territory government or the people of the Northern Territory would face’. He would consider - the word there is ‘consider’ - underwriting financing for the pipeline.
The difference with the Coalition is they have made a commitment to underwrite that. Both federal Labor and the federal Coalition are close to the mark. The fact is it is only the Coalition which has committed to underwriting the financing of the pipeline.
Listening to the sad and sorry member for Nhulunbuy, who for five years said nothing about gas or energy supply to the community, you would swear she had been the greatest advocate going for her community. What a load of nonsense to talk about the Minister for Health trying to reduce funding to the hospital to stop babies being born in Nhulunbuy and turning the hospital into a rehab facility. The town population dropping from 4000 to 1500 because the refinery closes - that is just scaremongering and being completely irrational.
She suggested we are punishing Gove because it is a Labor seat. They were her closing words. Who was punishing Gove? It was her government that refused to help Gove. The only people who have decided to do anything about it are the Country Liberals. The former and the current Chief Ministers are negotiating as hard as possible to extend the future of that refinery and mine.
I say ‘extend the future’ because that is exactly what it is. This thing cannot go on ad infinitum. I said to that a group of people at the Nhulunbuy community meeting, which the member for Nhulunbuy attended. ‘Guys, I understand this is a difficult thing to face, but one day we will have to face the closure of the mine and the refinery. It is an exhaustible resource. One day that mine will close down. What happens when there are no jobs in the mine or the refinery? What does the community do then?’ This is a bit of a wake-up call in some ways to say, ‘Let us start thinking about Nhulunbuy without mining’.
It is difficult to think of at times. I grew up in a tiny little town in Central Queensland of 50 people. It was no bigger than Elliott but it had a hospital and several hotels and vacant houses everywhere because it was once a thriving coal mining town with several thousand people. The mine closed down and, consequently, the hospital closed, people moved away and got jobs elsewhere, and it became a service hub for the pastoral community around it.
One day, as sure as God made little apples, the Nhulunbuy mining operations and refinery will close. But there is only one party, one team, which has tried to ensure we extend the life of that township for as long as we can, and that is the team on this side of the House. The former government had no interest. We hear the opposition bleating now but, goodness me, we have been in government for just 12 months.
This problem has been around a lot longer than that. It is not as if Mr Sandeep Biswas at Pacific Aluminium woke up within the last 12 months and said, ‘Holy moly, we have no gas. What are we going to do? Oh, it is all the fault of the Northern Territory government.’ That did not happen. We have known about this problem for many years, and for many years the government of the day did nothing.
The local member did nothing and said nothing. She said, ‘I am on public record’. Show us one line! Show us a transcript of a radio interview! Show us something in the Gove newsletter! Show us anything that says you have made one peep about the problems of energy supply in Nhulunbuy, and we might believe you. I cannot recall, and none of my colleagues can recall the member for Nhulunbuy saying anything. In the last two days, I have heard more from the member for Nhulunbuy than the entire time I have been in this House.
The member for Nhulunbuy seems to judge the worth of a person by whether they turn up to Garma. Why was this person not at Garma? Why was that person not at Garma? They should be talking about gas to Gove, demanding the Chief Minister goes over there.’ Goodness me, I went there. I fronted the people of Nhulunbuy and told them exactly the situation the government was in. I tried to reason with them. I have an enormous amount of sympathy for people in Nhulunbuy. It is a dreadful thing when you are in a township which rests on decisions sometimes made in head office in London. You feel remote from the decision-making of the company you are working for. It must be a dreadful feeling and I feel for the people of Nhulunbuy. I feel for the business people who have invested money in that township. I feel for the local community which is working with royalty monies they expect to get from that mine. That is extraordinarily upsetting and confronting.
However, this problem has been around for a long time. We all know they were burning heavy oil. We all know there have been environmental problems. We all know Kevin Rudd’s carbon tax would put another impediment in the way of that company operating. What have we heard from the member for Nhulunbuy about the carbon tax? Here is a refinery and a mine the whole town relies on, powered by heavy oil, which, as the member for Casuarina rightly pointed out, is very polluting. Yet, she has her masters in Canberra introducing a carbon tax - the most expensive carbon tax in the world, by the way - and what do we hear from the member from Nhulunbuy about that? Nothing. Yet, she demands the Chief Minister turn up.
Why is she not talking about these things? Why is she not explaining to her community, ‘I might well be a member of the Labor Party, but federal Labor is hurting us as a community and I am going to say something’. Why not? Why has she not said, over the last five years, ‘I might well be a member of this dysfunctional branch of the Australian Labor Party in the Northern Territory which refused to say anything about gas to Gove, or do anything to help our community, but I will stand up and fight my own mob. I will cross the floor.’
Goodness me, even the former member for Arafura, who was the Deputy Chief Minister, was prepared to cross the floor along with a number of her colleagues who decided they could not stomach the development at McArthur River mine. They felt for something, believed in something and crossed the floor.
Not the member for Nhulunbuy - nothing, not boo, not a squeak. There is a change in government and, all of a sudden, she is deeply offended and comes in here ranting and raving for some reason or other, abusing the member for Araluen as if she had a major role to play in shutting down the energy supplies. Goodness me, talk about trying to shoot off at anyone! It is crazy stuff.
Then, we find the member for Nhulunbuy has been on the payroll of the company for 11 years. The member for Araluen picked it when she suggested perhaps the reason she has not spoken about this is she perceives within herself there is a conflict of interest and she should not be talking about these things ...
Ms Lawrie: How ridiculous. How ridiculous.
Mr TOLLNER: Here we go, ‘how ridiculous’. Finally! The Opposition Leader does not shut up all day long - yabbity, yabbity, yabbity - and finally she decides to take a seat and join this debate. Aren’t you good? How did your briefing go last night? Did you get some information you did not know about? You hang your head in shame because you were part of the failed previous administration that refused to do anything …
Mr McCARTHY: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! I ask that the member direct his comments through the Chair.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue Treasurer, through the Chair, please.
Mr TOLLNER: Yes, of course, Mr Deputy Speaker, I will gladly comment through the Chair.
I was just making note that the Opposition Leader has finally decided to stick her two cents’ worth in here with some mumbled interjection. Yesterday, she was here all fire and brimstone with a censure motion, how our Chief Minister has lied being the key part of it. Today, she has not said boo ...
Ms Lawrie: I will once you sit down.
Mr TOLLNER: That is a point. Yesterday, whilst I was here responding …
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 113: relevance. The Chief Minister has made a gas to Gove statement; do you want to get back to it?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, Treasurer.
Mr TOLLNER: I am talking exactly about that. Gas to Gove was a big part of the censure motion yesterday. I have it here:
- … jeopardising the future of Nhulunbuy and the region by reneging on his government’s gas to Gove deal
That was part of your censure motion. You were outraged yesterday; it was appalling what we had been doing. Now, all of a sudden, you have not said boo. However, we will go back to yesterday when you were so outraged about gas to Gove …
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 113: relevance. Do you want to talk on the Chief Minister’s statement? I am waiting for my turn to talk, but you are going off on weird tangents.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, Treasurer.
Mr TOLLNER: You know damn well you will not get a turn to talk because your side agreed there would be two speakers from each side today on this, and we have other business to move on to. You have ducked this debate and you know it.
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 113. I am here. I will stand. I will get the call. I will talk …
Mr Giles: You have had two speakers.
Ms LAWRIE: No negotiation on two speakers …
Members interjecting.
Ms LAWRIE: I was with the Chamber of Commerce in a meeting on gas to Gove ...
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! It is not a point of order. Sit down, Leader of the Opposition, please. Continue, Treasurer, and stick to the statement, thank you.
Mr TOLLNER: Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was commenting on a couple of the debates we have had in this place in relation to gas to Gove. One was the censure motion yesterday. Straight after delivering the censure motion where it was so important that the Chief Minister has to be flung from the parliament and we have to go to another election, what did the Opposition Leader do? She shot upstairs to the Nitmiluk Lounge where I had a school group and started scoffing the food and acting like she had organised the function ...
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 113: relevance. We do not want to hear about sausage rolls, we want to hear about gas to Gove.
Mr TOLLNER: Mr Deputy Speaker, they talk about relevance. This is highly relevant because all of this is being driven by your Opposition Leader. I am talking about the commitment she has to this debate - absolutely none. What she is committed to is playing silly little political games and trying to undermine other members of parliament while they are in the Chamber debating her silly motions.
What the hell was she doing talking to a school group from my electorate …
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 67: digression from the topic. Can we debate this statement and get on with it?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I believe he is debating the statement …
Mr TOLLNER: I am debating the statement …
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: If we have fewer interjections, maybe he will stick to the topic. Continue, Treasurer. There are already a couple of people over there on warnings. Thank you.
Mr TOLLNER: I am talking about the way the Opposition Leader does business. She knows exactly what it is about; she has played in the mud before. She tried to put the Chief Minister off his game by running a silly censure motion. She had no commitment to the motion, because straight after she had spoken she went to the Nitmiluk Lounge trying to undermine me with a school group from my electorate, scoffing down food which my office paid for. Good on you, Opposition Leader, that is the way you do it. We know its form; you have done it all the way like that.
Today, the Chief Minister is ready to talk about gas to Gove. He has provided a statement and provided you a briefing last night and, all of a sudden, you are MIA, not around, disappeared ...
Ms Lawrie: I am here. Hello, I am here.
Mr TOLLNER: That is right. You were probably with the Chamber of Commerce doing something else important, but you certainly were not participating in this debate. That is a bit fraudulent in my view ...
Mr McCarthy: Is there a standing order for paranoia, Dave? Because I need to call it. Get back to the old days. Start swinging them, mate. Do not get paranoid.
Mr TOLLNER: I am not getting paranoid.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: A bit of order. Can we stop interjecting, please.
Mr TOLLNER: As much as you might want to try to drive a wedge between the former Chief Minster and the current Chief Minister on this issue, as much as you might want to try to play your funny little political games in this area, both of these gentlemen have done much more than your team ever has, irrespective that you knew about the problem for years. We listened to your censure; you have not done this, you have not done that, this is failing. Why? We have been in government for 12 months; whose problems are we fixing? We are fixing the mess you guys left behind. You are so lethargic you could not even get off your behinds to assist one of your own in her electorate in Nhulunbuy. Then you got this poor fool, the member for Casuarina, supposedly resources or energy spokesman or what not ...
Mr McCARTHY: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Standing Order 62: offensive and unbecoming words. I ask that the member withdraw.
Mr TOLLNER: I will withdraw that. Maybe he is not a fool. It is questionable. You have to ask the question about a bloke who has spent a bit of time as minister for Primary Industries, Resources, Mines and Energy and all that wonderful stuff who does not have a clue about who is operating here or what stages of operation some of these exploration projects are in.
If Armour Energy was ready to supply gas, we would be there. Without doubt, I can tell you that the former Chief Minister, the member for Blain, would have been there and there would be a pipeline deal already done on that project. The current Chief Minister would have done the deal. However, they are not ready to make that commitment. It is still questionable what resource they have. Every one of you argues we should be gifting or giving 300 PJ of gas to the township of Nhulunbuy ...
Mr STYLES: A point or order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Pursuant to Standing Order 77, I seek an extension of time for the member.
Motion agreed to.
Mr TOLLNER: I do not know what you people on the other side tell people in your electorates. How do you explain it to people in your electorates? ‘I am prepared to sacrifice your future, because we have to give all of the available gas to one large multinational company.’ How do you tell your people that? How do you tell them that, members for Barkly, Casuarina, Nightcliff, Fannie Bay, and Karama? The member for Karama does not really care about much outside of political muckraking, but how do you tell your constituents that? ‘We are prepared to do a deal that gives away every available bit of gas the government has, and we have no certainty in the future.’ You cannot!
How do you then turn around and say to companies like Vista Gold, Crocodile Gold, ERA at Jabiru, Rio Tinto, ‘Sorry we cannot help your little operation because we have given every available bit of gas we have to Rio Tinto at Nhulunbuy’? How do you run that line in your electorates? I am curious to know. How can you say, ‘All right, we are prepared to do this’? I know there is a bit of self-interest here. I look at my electorate and I could not tell the good citizens of Ludmilla, ‘By the way, there could be a bit of danger here. Maybe the lights will go off, maybe they will not. Maybe you will have a 40% or 50% increase in power prices because we have decided to give all the available energy we have to Nhulunbuy.’ I could not do that.
We have to do things that are responsible. Gary Gray recognises that; we all recognise that. You guys are not talking logically or sensibly. You are sitting here solely for political muckraking and trying to cover up the failures of the member for Nhulunbuy. Goodness me, what do you want a member of your team to do? Surely standing for something must mean something. Why is it that you reward people who sit down, shut their mouth, say nothing, and watch their communities go to hell in a hand basket? That is ridiculous.
The member for Nhulunbuy should have been in here over the last five years taking every opportunity to say, ‘It is not just a multinational company that needs this, there are people’s lives and businesses affected by this in Nhulunbuy. Please do something. Please start talking to the company.’ You rant about the INPEX project. I am curious to know whether there was any discussion in the early days about INPEX supplying a little gas for Nhulunbuy. You knew these things were on the horizon. Why did you not do anything when you were in government? Why do you now say it is all our fault? What a ridiculous thought. It is crazy.
You said, ‘The former Chief Minister and the current Chief Minister have different plans. One is an egg and one is a nice bloke.’ The fact is, both of them were working for the future of Nhulunbuy and, at the same time, keeping an eye on what was right for the entire Territory. That is what we are about: responsible government. You are on that side of the Chamber because everything you demonstrated whilst in government was anything but responsible.
Why are we staring down the barrel at $5.5bn worth of debt? Because the Opposition Leader, then the Treasurer, wanted to play cheapjack political games. She could not say no. Why do we have a medi-hotel that cost $18.5m to build and no funding to run it? Because the Opposition Leader could not say no. Federal Labor wanted to build us a hospital - I suggest it was more like an overflow - at Palmerston for $110m, which came with $50m recurrent funding. Where would that come from? The former Treasurer could not say no. Now we are buggers and mongrels because we are taking a sensible look, and the Minister for Health is reviewing it and doing a proper study, which is something you guys should have done when you were in government.
It defies logic that we listen to the tirade from you guys, particularly when the Chief Minister bares it all and says, ‘This is where we are at’. He gave a report to the parliament and all you guys have to say is, ‘Why will he not visit? Why will he not stand up for the people of Nhulunbuy? Why will he not do this?’ It is a damn good question which the member for Nhulunbuy should ask herself. Why will she not represent Nhulunbuy? Why did she not say something in the past? Why will she not call a public meeting and explain what is going on? She got a briefing last night. She has an opportunity; she is armed with all the facts. She knows exactly what is going on. Why does she not go out there and say, ‘This is the situation the government is in. Like it or lump it, this is where we have to go. We work for the company. Let us stop lobbying them to do a better deal with the government.’ Have an opinion one way or the other to say, ‘Let us try to look at this another way’ or ‘Let us do this’.
At least now we have a concrete offer on the table of 175 PJ: a dual generation option where they can generate with heavy oil and gas. We have left the door open for further gas when it comes online. What is wrong with that deal? In my mind it does two things; it gives Nhulunbuy a future, but it also gives the entire Northern Territory a future. We have an economy we want to develop. We want new mines, industries, businesses, and all of that. We are not going to give the whole lot to one township and stop the development of the rest of the Territory.
We all have to work cooperatively together. That is what the Chief Minister has been doing with Pacific Aluminium, the Commonwealth, and Territorians generally. That is what this is about, and the former Chief Minister was doing the same thing.
It is a shame you guys want to play silly political games. It is more important that the Opposition Leader ducks upstairs and steals sandwiches from schoolkids than sit here …
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62: offensive. He should withdraw.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Could you withdraw that? It is your choice.
Mr TOLLNER: I will withdraw that. It is okay for the Opposition Leader to pop upstairs and take sandwiches from schoolkids ...
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: If you forget the sandwiches, Treasurer, it might be appropriate.
Mr TOLLNER: I was informed she does not eat sausage rolls. It is hard to …
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62: offensive.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can you withdraw that please, Treasurer?
Mr TOLLNER: I withdraw that. What were you eating, Opposition Leader? What is not offensive? You ate all the lamingtons, did you? Goodness me, you ran a censure motion. You ranted and raved, carried on, called the Chief Minister all types of names such as a liar who reneges, then, as soon as there was a response, out of the Chamber, upstairs into the food and the soft drinks and anything else put on by the member for Fong Lim ...
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Treasurer, you have about four minutes to go. You might want to get back to the subject. That would be good, thank you.
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62: offensive. I ask he withdraws those remarks.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry, I did not hear them. What remarks were they?
Ms LAWRIE: The remarks referring to me tucking into a variety of foods and drinks and whatever I could get my hands on. It is not correct and is also offensive and totally irrelevant to the topic and discussion.
Mr Elferink: Can we stop the clock for a second, Mr Deputy Speaker?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can we stop the clock for a minute, please.
Mr ELFERINK: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Offensive and unbecoming remarks are accusations and those types of things. We have heard the Leader of the Opposition, on a number of occasions, trawling into this place using words like ‘rat’ and ‘liar’. For her to take umbrage to an observation by a member on this side of the House and that eating is in some way offensive is precious in an unreasonable way. If the Chair is seriously going to contemplate ruling the words ‘sausage roll’ or ‘lamington’ out of order, we will soon be out of nouns in this House.
Ms FYLES: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Standing Order 62. He is constantly digressing from the topic and what he is saying is offensive in the way he is saying it.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have not found any of the words offensive. I have found them annoying, so if we could stick with the subject please, Treasurer.
Mr TOLLNER: Mr Deputy Speaker, the argument being presented by these guys is not about the future of the people in Nhulunbuy, it is about cheapjack politics.
Let the member for Karama deny she was in the Nitmuluk Room yesterday with a bunch of schoolkids whilst they were having morning tea. Let her deny she helped herself to some of the food. You cannot deny that. You might think it is offensive, but you did it. Goodness me, wonderful stuff. Whilst I was here taking up my time responding to your censure motion, you were up there eating my food.
At least the member for Nhulunbuy paid more attention than that; at least she got up. Credit to her, after five years she has found her tongue, responded and made some points about what the Chief Minister had to say in this statement. I found the statement by the member for Nhulunbuy equally offensive. She was talking about the CLP punishing Gove for having a Labor member. It is ridiculous, but she truly believes it.
I went to that function. She said no one knew where it was. Well, 100 people quickly found it. No one tried to hide it. Someone called me during the day and said, ‘Lynne Walker wants to know whether she can come to the function’. I said, ‘Of course, everyone is invited. Tell her to bring a crowd.’ And didn’t she! It was not the future of Gove they were talking about there, it was about having a crack at the government and Lynne riling people up and getting them to almost riot. That is what it was about.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank the Chief Minister for bringing on this statement and informing us more about what is happening in these negotiations.
Mr GILES (Chief Minister): Mr Deputy Speaker …
Ms Lawrie: Excuse me, Mr Deputy Speaker! I am on my feet. I indicated I wish to speak to the debate. I did seek your call. It is convention in this parliament not to wrap up the statement until the members who wish to speak have spoken. It is a convention of this parliament to not wrap the statement until I have spoken.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, I saw the Chief Minister standing first. I am sorry, and I call the Chief Minister. Thank you.
Mr GILES: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker …
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Many people have indicated they might want to speak as well.
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! It is not normal to gag the Leader of the Opposition in a debate. I am here to speak about gas to Gove. Chief Minister, you may not want to hear what I have to say, but I have the right as an elected member of this parliament to say it. I was in a meeting with the Chamber of Commerce, coincidentally on the subject of gas to Gove. I was meeting with the executive when the debate commenced. I am here and I want to speak.
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, sit down! If we are talking about a point of order, there is no need to ramble on. Now ..
Mr ELFERINK: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! In a telephone exchange between me and the member for Fannie Bay, the Opposition Whip, last night there was some discussion about how many speakers there would be. We indicated one on each side. They asked for two. At 9.43 pm I texted the Opposition Whip, ‘Yes to two speakers on gas to Gove. Elf’. Response at 9.43 pm from Mr Gunner, ‘Ta’. I do not think we could have been much clearer that it was two speakers each side ...
Mr Giles: We can manage our time.
Mr ELFERINK: It is a question of quality of management.
Ms LAWRIE: Speaking to the point of order, in response to the information provided by the Leader of the Government Business, there is no doubt the intention was two speakers from the opposition. The intention was that I would be either the first or second speaker. Due to a pre-existing commitment I had with the Chamber of Commerce Northern Territory Executive, I was physically in a meeting with them discussing gas to Gove when the statement was under way. I did not get back to the building in time to stand to be the second speaker, but I am here now. Will the government hear me out? For democracy, and not gagging the opposition, will you hear the Leader of the Opposition on gas to Gove in your statement, or will you continue to hide and use the weight of your numbers in this Chamber to shut down debate? It is up to you, Chief Minister, whether you will give me the chance to speak in this debate …
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Treasurer, you have the call.
Ms LAWRIE: … or whether you will hide behind this charade?
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, I will not say it again! Please, sit down. Treasurer.
Mr TOLLNER: Mr Deputy Speaker, in relation to this point of order, I point out to the Leader of the Opposition that, generally, when parliament is sitting, parliament takes priority over everything else. Whether you are meeting with the Chamber of Commerce, the Girl Guides or a primary school in the Nitmiluk Lounge, the parliament generally takes priority. That is a general perception of all of us here. If you are not available for the debate, you are not available for the debate. You cannot turn up whenever you like. The world does not revolve around the Leader of the Opposition …
Ms Lawrie: I am available and I am here!
Mr TOLLNER: I am sorry to say it, but you had had a chance.
Ms Lawrie: I am available and I am here!
Mr Deputy SPEAKER: Can I have a bit of order, please. I am going to make a ruling and I will make it right now. The Treasurer is correct; that is, parliament takes precedence over meetings. The agreement was two speakers on either side. That has been completed. Chief Minister, you have the call.
Ms Lawrie: You are gagging the Leader of the Opposition to your shame!
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: There will be no interruptions …
Ms Lawrie: You are gagging me to your shame!
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, can you leave the Chamber please, and leave immediately!
Ms Lawrie: You are an embarrassment!
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I find that offensive, and I name you, Leader of the Opposition!
Ms Lawrie: You are an embarrassment. You are not a Deputy Speaker, you are an embarrassment. Gag debate …
Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: Leader of Government Business, can you speak to that naming please?
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Yes, Mr Deputy Speaker. What the Leader of the Opposition has just done is reflect on the Chair directly. This, of course, is something that might be a matter for the Privileges Committee to consider. I urge, at this stage, that all members calm down, that the Chief Minister, who has the call, be allowed to complete his comments, and I, along with the Speaker, and perhaps the member for Fannie Bay can have a discussion about this and what would be the appropriate next action.
Madam SPEAKER: Chief Minister, you have the call.
Mr GILES: Thank you, Madam Speaker. If I had the opportunity of having the call, as much as I agreed with the argument by the Treasurer and the Leader of Government Business, I would have allowed the Opposition Leader to keep speaking and adjourned the debate after that.
I will adjourn the matter, and we can continue the debate at a later date.
Debate adjourned.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
Alcohol Mandatory Treatment
Alcohol Mandatory Treatment
Mrs LAMBLEY (Alcohol Rehabilitation): Madam Speaker, today I outline the progress made since the passing of the Alcohol Mandatory Treatment Bill on 28 June 2013. I acknowledge the hard work and professionalism displayed by all individuals in the Department of Health, the Department of the Attorney-General and Justice, and the police involved in the alcohol mandatory treatment process.
The Country Liberals took a commitment to the August 2012 election on this issue. We said we would scrap Labor’s failed Banned Drinker Register and introduce mandatory alcohol rehabilitation for the Territory’s worst alcohol abusers. Labor’s failed Banned Drinker Register saw 20 000 people cycle through the protective custody revolving door and an increase in domestic violence and antisocial behaviour. We made the commitment to Territorians to scrap the Banned Drinker Register and end Labor’s protective custody revolving door, and I am proud to say that within the first 12 months, we are delivering on that commitment.
Before I outline some of the early successes that have occurred as a result of mandatory alcohol treatment, it is important to acknowledge the mess left to us by Labor in the alcohol supply, demand, and harm minimisation space. First, for 11 years Labor failed to address the harm caused by alcohol abuse in the Territory through any form of demand reduction strategies. In the Big Brother world that Labor often likes to operate in, they believe in penalising and restricting all of the community rather than focusing on those in greatest need of assistance and providing the resources to ensure they get the help they need.
Labor’s sole focus on supply measures and their failure to develop comprehensive supply, demand and harm minimisation measures, has not helped stop the revolving door of protective custody. It has not made a dint in our unacceptably high rates of domestic violence and has not reduced the antisocial behaviour that is the scourge of our streets. In fact, Labor, at both the Commonwealth and Territory levels, has been obsessed with supply side measures in remote communities and their policies can be directly linked to the rise in problems experienced in our urban centres. Labor’s only thought on how to fix the problem they created? More supply measures. It is nonsensical.
The Country Liberals believe in developing a holistic strategy for dealing with alcohol abuse in the Northern Territory. Our comprehensive plans will have a range of supply, demand, and harm minimisation measures and will be led by the apt Minister for Alcohol Policy, my colleague, the member for Fong Lim.
Part of our solution – and I stress part - is our alcohol mandatory treatment. Still in its infancy, it is already having an effect and improving the situation in our communities.
Since the commencement of the legislation on 1 July 2013 and up to 20 August, there have been 216 people across the Territory taken into protective custody twice and, therefore, are on track to be clients of the service system. Of the 85 people who have had three protective custodies across the Territory, 21 were excluded from alcohol mandatory treatment with outstanding charges and, therefore, referred to the justice system. Northern Territory Police have transferred 36 people to assessment services in Darwin, Alice Springs, and Katherine. Of the people referred to assessment, 18 received an alcohol mandatory treatment order, eight were released without an order, with 10 undergoing assessment midway through the second month of operations. I stress the last of these statistics: there are 18 people across the Territory receiving much-needed treatment and rehabilitation for their chronic alcohol addiction.
Never before has the Northern Territory government provided a solid option for the revolving door of alcohol-related protective custodies. Labor watched 20 000 people being taken into protective custody in 2012-13 and said their alcohol strategy was working. This irrational argument did not wash and did not dupe the people of the Northern Territory, nor did it match the evidence that domestic violence and antisocial behaviour increased.
These statistics represent individuals who, until now, have gone through the revolving door of protective custody - not referred to support services - and then been let go back into the community without being given meaningful treatment and the opportunity to change their lives. It is the stories of these individuals and the outcomes they are reaching which will be crucial in measuring the success of alcohol mandatory treatment.
Our first client had a history of frequent interaction with the police, the criminal justice system, and the health system. The woman from Central Australia was apprehended by the police in Alice Springs and taken into protective custody on 3 July, activating the first trigger. The final two triggers were activated seven days later and within a 24-hour time frame of each other. For several years, this woman has gone through many trials and tribulations as a result of her alcohol abuse.
The Chairperson of CAAAPU, Ms Eileen Hoosan, was asked on ABC radio’s Law Report on 13 August 2013 for information on the mandatory treatment system’s first client. This is what she had to say:
Yes, she’s a person that CAAAPU has been trying to reach for the last year, and when we did find out that it was one of the people that we identified as someone who could come to CAAAPU and receive treatment, it gave us great confidence that in supporting mandatory rehabilitation that we would be able to go out there and reach to people that we knew we couldn’t get. And I know that she’s spoken to our outreach program and she said, ‘I’m happy to be here. I know that you’ve been trying to get me to come into CAAAPU and to get treatment, but now that I’m here I’m happy to be here and stay here.
There you have it, just the type of person we were hoping would be brought into our system: an individual who had slipped through the cracks, someone who had been unable to access the medical and counselling services she desperately needs.
When asked how the client is doing, Ms Hoosan said:
She is doing really well and she is very involved in the programs that we have to offer our clients when they do come out to CAAAPU.
On behalf of all my Country Liberals colleagues, I wish this client every success in changing her behaviour and getting her life back on track, and I congratulate her for the steps already taken to take back control of her destiny.
Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs LAMBLEY: When asked by the journalist whether CAAAPU would be happy to treat people who have had an order made against their will, this was Ms Hoosan’s response:
- Yes, it’s our job, it’s our job to treat them. It’s our job to give them every opportunity to do better in life. And I just want to say, one of our CAAAPU directors, she put the picture out why we support mandatory rehabilitation, and she said that over the years many of our people have passed away without getting any help, and it’s the right thing to do now is to provide that help for Aboriginal people through mandatory rehabilitation.
On criticisms of the alcohol mandatory treatment system, Ms Hoosan went further:
- I do understand the criticism. We looked at the general criticism that people do have with mandatory rehabilitation, and it has all come down to ‘it’s not going to work and it’s going to cost too much money’. And when us as an Aboriginal organisation view that level of criticism, you know, it makes us sad to think that our people will still continue to suffer alcohol abuse in the streets, at home, wherever, and still go through that process of protective custody. Well, we want to change that and the government has given us an opportunity to change that. People can come out to CAAAPU, an Aboriginal organisation, and will now get help with their alcohol abuse.
This, our very first alcohol mandatory treatment client, is a great story. This is a story of success for the individual, her family and her community.
Another example is the first client through the doors of the Darwin alcohol assessment and treatment service was apprehended by police on 19 July 2013. The client’s family was actively involved in both the assessment and tribunal processes. The client, and all of her family, agreed she should engage in a mandated treatment program.
Through the tribunal process, it became clear the client wished to attend a family member’s funeral in a remote community. The tribunal leave was important to her to attend to this cultural business. Her family arranged to take her home, ensured she maintained a safe lifestyle and has stayed in touch with the clinical team. The woman will return to treatment at the conclusion of the leave. This case demonstrates the opportunities available from working with clients’ families. This client, again, had a history of cycling through protective custody without intervention.
Our alcohol mandatory treatment system is a caring, flexible and sensitive health service that is already demonstrating an ability to cater to the individual needs of clients.
On 31 July 2013, a 40-year-old man was apprehended by police and taken into protective custody for the third time since 1 July 2013. Before July, this man had been taken into protective custody five times over the previous five months and is another example of a person interacting on the edges of a range of services and repeatedly drinking to the point of being a risk to themselves and others in the community without any diversionary intervention.
Northern Territory Police are key partners with the Department of Health in the implementation of the alcohol mandatory treatment approach. Police have improved the identification processes used when taking a person into protective custody. Use of enhanced identity processes have identified those people trying to bypass the system through the use of aliases, and have also picked up a number of people with outstanding charges. Outstanding charges range from damage to property, contravention of domestic violence orders, breach of bail, disorderly behaviour, and aggravated unlawful entry.
A number of issues have been identified which are consistent with the implementation of any new and evolving service system. The absconding of patients is an example.
It is important that the services are robust enough to ensure all clients referred because they need to break the cycle of use of alcohol remain in the service. The impact on their lives and the community demonstrated by three protective custody occasions in two months must stop. We must balance this with a need to create services that suit the majority: those who take the opportunity to break the cycle of alcohol use and engage in treatment. This is the experience of the majority. We also need to learn from these experiences and ensure the services and evaluation of the outcomes they deliver focus on both the short- and longer-term outcomes.
In the short term, the services need to deliver safe therapeutic care to the majority. In the longer term, clients need to have engaged in a program which supports them to stop drinking, to engage in employment, and engage in the life of their family and community.
With the bedding down of this rapid first phase of implementation, I am looking towards phase two of this program. This phase will include the letting of an expression of interest later this month for the construction of a purpose-built facility and the operation of the treatment service in Katherine. It will also mean moving the Darwin treatment facility from its current site to a new location, which was announced earlier today, and an EOI process encouraging interested parties to put their hand up to run the service. Greater capacity in Alice Springs will also be explored, and capacity in Tennant Creek and on the Tiwi Islands is also a priority.
I continue to encourage other communities to come forward and nominate themselves for culturally appropriate treatment services. Phase two will also see the incorporation of alcohol mandatory treatment into our broader range of Alcohol and Other Drugs programs and services, as well as a strong focus on developing aftercare services. Aftercare and the development of alcohol mandatory treatment with ancillary and support services will ensure an individual is provided with healthcare, no matter at what point along the alcohol abuse spectrum they are.
There is also an enormous opportunity to work with the client’s family to increase the likelihood of continued behavioural change. The impact on the family from alcohol is often the greatest, particularly where there are children exposed to the violence caused by alcohol. Aftercare provides an opportunity to change this path, not only for the individual, but the whole family.
It is clear we have big plans to improve the alcohol mandatory treatment system into the future as part of our work to improve the Alcohol and Other Drugs sector more broadly.
However, it is with disappointment that I note that Labor and their mates in Canberra have found it suitable to deny the tool of income management to this important program. Despite assurances to the contrary, federal Labor minister Macklin did not sign off on income management powers prior to the Commonwealth entering caretaker conventions.
That means some of our first clients leaving mandatory treatment will have a war chest of Centrelink payments built up, which they may choose to spend on alcohol and other social undesirables free from income management which may have assisted them to keep on top of their addictions. If this happens, and I hope it does not, it is Labor which has turned the tap back on for these people, rather than working with us to ensure their income is directed towards their families’ needs.
In the end, however, I am hopeful that after the federal election a more rational and sensible approach will be taken to policy formation in Canberra. I am confident that income management will become an important tool in our alcohol mandatory treatment system.
Alcohol mandatory treatment is a major addition to the range of supply, demand, and harm reduction strategies in place across the Northern Territory. The Northern Territory has a contemporary alcohol licensing framework. This means that Alice Springs has some of the toughest alcohol supply restrictions in the country.
The government is committed to a holistic review of the alcohol mandatory treatment system, and has already developed the evaluation framework to ensure the implementation of this policy initiative is robustly reviewed. We do not believe we have anything to hide and, over time, the alcohol mandatory treatment system will bear fruit. As I have outlined, it has already shown positive, early results.
In closing, I thank the staff of the Department of Health who are working at the coalface to deliver this initiative for government. Since early this year, they have enthusiastically set up the services, then operated them 24 hours per day, seven days per week. They have undertaken clinical duties and modified their practice based on the lessons learnt from each new client.
I also thank all of our non-government organisation partners and make special mention of the Board of CAAAPU for their unflagging support of the initiative and for supporting their staff to deliver such an impressive service in such a short space of time. I am pleased that CAAAPU and the Department of Health have been able to collaborate by basing a clinical staff member from the department at CAAAPU.
I also acknowledge and thank critics of mandatory treatment. Ours is an evolving program and the government has confidence that we can, and will, improve alcohol mandatory treatment over the coming months and years, and that it will grow to be an exemplar of a forward-thinking, pragmatic and meaningful health response to the scourge of alcohol abuse.
To that end, we welcome all constructive comments and advice on our system. The Giles government is an open and transparent government. We do not believe in gagging public servants or the non-government organisation sector, and want both groups to raise any concerns they have in a constructive and productive manner as we seek to improve our response to alcohol abuse in the Territory.
As I have travelled throughout the Territory meeting with a diverse range of community groups and stakeholders to discuss alcohol mandatory treatment, I have felt heartened by the widespread support for mandatory rehabilitation. Very few have not seen the merit in the principles behind alcohol mandatory treatment. I have been struck by the stories people and service providers have told me about the need to do something and that alcohol mandatory treatment represents a real change in breaking the cycle of alcohol abuse. From mothers to health workers, the need to break this cycle is clear. The Giles government believes our alcohol mandatory treatment system provides a real opportunity for people to break the cycle, get their lives back on track, and engage productively with their family and the community.
Madam Speaker, I move that the Assembly take note of this statement.
Mr GUNNER (Fannie Bay): Madam Speaker, we welcome the statement. I believe we have had at least one alcohol debate every sitting since the last election.
We all agree excessive consumption of alcohol is an issue in the Northern Territory, but we have a difference of opinion in how we tackle it. What we do agree on is rehabilitation, both voluntary and mandatory. We discussed that during the second reading of the bill and covered it in previous debates in this Chamber, including our last term in government. We want to make an effort to define a point of intervention and try to make a difference in someone’s life. We do agree on that.
What we disagree on is mandatory detention for rehabilitation. We listened to the advice of experts who said if you do not want to be rehabilitated, you will not be, and detaining people will be an expensive policy and a waste of time and money. It will come with a huge opportunity cost. We believe that is common sense. Rehabilitation is hard, and the studies show you need to do it repeatedly before it works.
We all know somebody who has had an addiction - most likely tobacco, but sometimes alcohol - and we have seen their struggles with rehabilitation. Rehabilitation is hard. We had, through the Enough Is Enough policy, a comprehensive approach with diversions, incentives, and consequences. For example, we had the ability through the Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal to income manage problem drunks. If you did not want to be income managed, you needed to go through treatment.
Under Labor, from 1 January 2012 to 30 June 2012 there were about 670 people referred to treatment for alcohol rehabilitation through the Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal. I am happy to read the letter from that tribunal to the then Minister for Health and Alcohol Policy, Hon Dave Tollner:
- Dear Minister,
…
It is with great pleasure that I present the inaugural Annual Report of the Tribunal in accordance with section 71 of the Alcohol Reform (Prevention of Alcohol-Related Crime and Substance Misuse) Act, 2011 for the period from 1 July 2011 to 30 June 2012.
The Tribunal’s functions are unique within Australia and internationally as far as I have been able to ascertain to date.
During the reporting period there were some 15 voluntary applications to the Tribunal, that is people who referred themselves for assistance through Tribunal orders; 18 people referred by authorised applicants including health professionals and family members and some 679 people mandatorily referred by the police since 1 January 2012.
The ability of citizens to make their own applications and of authorised applicants to refer other people are particularly empowering provisions enabling the community to take responsibility in relation to the abuse of alcohol and other drugs and the harm that causes our community. Approximately one third of all applications to the Tribunal came from the Katherine region in the reporting period.
In my opinion the Tribunal has commenced to have a significant impact on the lives of Territorians by reducing the supply of alcohol to individuals who misuse it in the community, enhancing access to effective treatment and by empowering people to control their own access to alcohol.
It is obviously still early days in terms of the Tribunal given that most referrals have only started since 1 January this year.
Yours sincerely
Michael O’Donnell
Chairperson.
These interventions had, for a lot less expense, similar case studies to those the minister cited in her statement. Yet, the minister said in her ministerial statement there were no demand measures under Labor. That is wrong. We had approaches on demand, supply, and harm minimisation.
The CLP scrapped the Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal which meant they scrapped income management in the NT. The Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal had the power to income manage problem drunks. In their haste to scrap anything to do with Labor, they threw away the powers to income manage problem drunks and have spent a year working out how to get those powers back. This was a bad decision by the CLP. They should have never thrown away the powers to income manage problem drunks. It has led to a wasted year.
The CLP is failing Territorians with their alcohol policies and spending $45m of taxpayers’ money this year doing it. They promised to immediately remove problem drunks from our streets. It was on the front page of their 100-day plan. The CLP has, in 361 days, taken 18 people into treatment. The CLP Chief Minister said the success rate will be 5% - 5% of 18 is 0.9 of a problem drunk. That means less than one problem drunk on our streets has been dealt with - almost one problem drunk in 361 days. It is quite an extraordinary breaking of a promise to Territorians.
Under Labor, a problem drunk could be income managed. Under the CLP, a problem drunk can spend all they have on alcohol. Under the CLP, if you are banned from drinking alcohol you can walk into any takeaway outlet and buy as much alcohol as you can afford. Yet the CLP remains confused as to why its alcohol policies are criticised.
Also, remarkably, the minister talked about revolving doors as a policy failure. There is a revolving door at the medi-hotel: there must be for Brewdini to keep escaping. The CLP policy is secure care for a problem drunk to be detained for three months while they are treated. Yet escaping is apparently a measure of success. This is an extraordinary explanation that has been actively mocked in pubs, at back yard barbecues, and in staffrooms. Nobody believes escape is a measure of success.
Most people are caught between shock and laughter as to how to deal with that as an explanation. They do not know how to deal with revelations that a serial escapee has escaped four or five times from the medi-hotel.
Despite what the CLP thinks, escape is not a measure of success. This is not the Shawshank Redemption or the Great Escape. It is much more like Looney Tunes. Escaping from the medi-hotel is not a sign your alcohol policies are working. They have lost touch with reality if they claim escaping is a sign of success. It is a joke, but one with serious consequences because there is, essentially, a prison on hospital grounds in the northern suburbs from which it is easy for people to escape.
The medi-hotel needs to be returned to its original purpose: looking after sick Territorians and helping take the pressure of the Royal Darwin Hospital. It is concerning that the CLP seems to be making up its policy as it goes along. Only two weeks ago the minister said, ‘We are not setting up a prison for these people. Of course, we are looking to make it more secure, but we are not going to turn it into a prison.’ The CLP has often defended this policy as a health measure. They defend locking up someone for three months who has not committed a crime by saying it is a health measure. Today, though, the minister announced that Darwin’s alcohol mandatory treatment facility will be relocated to an improved and secure facility at the Darwin Correctional Centre. They are going to the prison.
The CLP is making up this policy as it goes along. Three weeks ago they said putting alcohol rehabilitation patients in a prison would be ridiculous but today that is exactly what they have announced. Putting alcohol rehabilitation patients in with prisoners is ridiculous. It goes against the advice of every expert, but the CLP has ignored every expert, including the police, on how to tackle alcohol crime. The CLP has claimed the new prison will be full when it opens, but today they announced they plan to fit in hundreds of alcohol rehabilitation patients as well, over the course of a year. Who are they going to let out to let them in? They are moving the alcohol rehabilitation patients to the prison, despite saying this is a health measure and not a corrections measure.
We can all call this change in policy the Brewdini Exemption. We note with great interest that Brewdini’s escapes are not one of the case studies. The interest in this statement, broadly amongst the public, would have increased dramatically if it included details of Brewdini’s escapes. Brewdini has quickly become a Territory character. To put some of his quotes on the record:
- Family, we drink, you know? Share one another. Yeah, but I don’t drink much, you know? Only just a little bit. Little bit. I’m not really a drunk. I have got no problem, I think. I’m a happy, happy, happy, happy bloke. It is good in there, yeah? It is a good place. I just stay there you know? Feed, eat, feed and watch television. They just let me go. I am a free man now.
I do not think it is quite reasonable to say they let him go; he escaped four or five times. Yet, apparently, Brewdini is a success story because escaping is a sign of the policy’s success. The Chief Minister has said a 5% success rate of mandatory detention for rehabilitation is what they are expecting. If one in 18 is escaping, the CLP is running at roughly a 5% success rate. After a year of promising to immediately remove all drunks from the street, they have dealt with one.
I remind members this is costing taxpayers $45m this year. The CLP ignored or gagged experts when drafting their alcohol policy and Territorians are paying for it at cost of $90 000 per person treated. Taxpayers are paying $45m this year for the CLP’s mistakes on alcohol.
We always agree in this Chamber that there is a problem with the excessive consumption of alcohol in the Northern Territory, we need to deal with it, and you need to have supply measures, demand measures, and harm minimisation measures. Yet we do not believe this government is taking serious measures around supply, and it mocks us for our focus on supply. The CLP is showing an absence in the policy for tackling supply issues.
There is no doubt they have demand measures. In fact, they are spending an incredible amount of money on demand measures, where all the experts are saying mandatory detention for rehabilitation is an incredibly expensive option when there are other ways to deal with rehabilitation, both mandatory and voluntary.
There is a difference between our two parties in how we tackle alcohol in the Northern Territory. The minister has said she is open for comment. We say there needs to be some serious discussion about how we move forward on supply. We have had many debates in this House recently about demand, and I am sure we will have more. However, there needs to be more focus from the government around tackling supply.
I will say one more time, it is a real tragedy the CLP scrapped the income management powers we had in the Northern Territory through the Alcohol and Other Drugs Tribunal. Those were important powers for the Northern Territory, and by losing them we have wasted a year. They are trying to get those powers back, but they should never have scrapped them in the first place. I understand when they first came in, they said, ‘Labor did this; we want to get rid of Labor things’, but in their haste to do that they lost a very important power for the Northern Territory and we have had a wasted year since.
Madam Speaker, there is a difference of opinion between our two parties on how we tackle alcohol. There is a range of things on which we do agree, but there is a very fundamental difference about mandatory detention for rehabilitation. We note this statement.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, I thank the minister for making this statement. I have been listening to the debate from both sides. The minister will know I did not vote last time. I came under some fairly heavy criticism from the member for Greatorex, but I can live with that because my concerns were relevant.
I support the idea of mandatory rehabilitation for more than just trying to help someone who has a chronic alcohol problem; it also gives the community a break. That is sometimes forgotten in this debate. This debate has been going on for a number of years. Some years ago I was approached by some business people in Darwin who were sick of some of the behaviour occurring on their properties and they wanted something done. People have the right to have some peace and quiet in their own back yard, literally. Also, on the other side of it we are saying, ‘We will try to help you through a period in your life where you have lost control’. It is a matter of compassion on one hand, and giving the community relief from some of the problems caused by people who do not control themselves because of alcohol abuse.
I need to make it clear that I support what the government is trying to do, but with some concerns. I take up the issues the member for Fannie Bay raised. We have to be careful we do not get stuck in the one size fits all. I said before, having the BDR along with what you are doing, plus the alcohol tribunal, may have allowed us to look at the problem from a range of options: supply and demand, voluntary processes through the tribunal - voluntary to the point where you have an option to do this or do that and, if you do not, you have mandatory alcohol rehabilitation as part of that process.
I always am annoyed that we get into this partisan debate over alcohol in the Northern Territory, because those people who are drunk are not Labor or Liberal supporters, they are human beings. We need to ensure we work as hard as we can as a parliament, not putting all our energies into bashing one another up over whose policies are better, but seeing whether we are broadminded enough to say, ‘Just because one party had the idea does not mean it is, necessarily, a bad idea’. There are times when we could combine the best ideas that come forward from this parliament to try to find solutions to a very difficult problem.
I am still not sure my concerns have been sorted. The member for Fannie Bay mentioned the person who has escaped about four or five times. It highlights one of the concerns I had in the beginning. It was not the principle of what you were doing, minister, it is that I felt the security was not up to scratch. I have been to the medi-hostel. I was there before it was converted, and again a few weeks after it was converted, and I found it had an extra fence of chain mesh with plain wire on top. That would not take a lot to get over. The minister did not want it to look like a prison and I understand that as well.
However, if people had been to look at the secure care centre at Holtze, they would have seen there is a fence there that is approximately - I will have a guess - 1.8 m, maybe 2 m high, made of a mesh used in prisons that you cannot grab hold of; it has rectangular squares. At the top it has a barrel that rolls which means it is very hard to get over. However, when you go to the secure care centre you would not think it was a prison; it is not barbed wire. That is the type of security I would have preferred at the front.
The government wanted to get this program up and running and sometimes in haste you do things because you want the program to get under way. I understand that but my concern was it was introduced too quickly. I may be wrong.
My other concern was the security, health and safety of anybody who was in those facilities. I know there were some changes to the rooms at the medi-hostel so there were fewer hanging points.
I visited CAAAPU and I understand they support it. I had a meeting with them. They are very good people who are passionate about doing something for people affected by alcohol. When they showed me the plans, I was shown two second-hand demountables. Again, it gave me the impression of, ‘We need to do something now, we will put two second-hand demountables in’. I kept thinking of hanging points and wondering whether this is the design of a building which will house someone who does not want to be there. They will be incarcerated; is this really the way we should be approaching it?
I am pleased the government is at least looking at alternatives. The member for Fannie Bay said - I have seen the media release - that by next year the medi-hostel will be returned to its original purpose. When the new prison opens there will be the possibility of the low-security section of the prison being used for this purpose. At least there is a bit more space there. I do not agree with the member for Fannie Bay; he inferred they would be out with other prisoners. I am presuming that will not happen.
There is an excellent garden there. I know the garden will be shifted to the new prison. I have always felt this has to be a little more than just a little house where you keep someone for three months. You want things that people can do, whether it is gardening, a little sport, or some education. I have always felt we need a more holistic approach to working with these people. We are not just putting them there as people to be assessed purely as patients. They are there because we are trying to show them we have compassion and want to change their lives, but we are not treating them as a number, as a statistic; we are dealing with them as individuals. We are giving them some options while they are there, with a little hope that some of those options may just be the trigger that turns their life around. At the back of the secure care centre there is some bush with a garden and room to move. They might be able to do some cooking. They are the sort of things we need to look at.
I worry that, so far, we seem to have put everybody into what you might call the higher security side of this program. I know the minister said we are looking for expressions of interest for people out bush. That should be the priority, rather than tying people up in fairly strict regime facilities. When you read the Principles in the act, it says:
- The following general principles must be applied by a person when exercising a power or performing a function under this Act:
(a) involuntary detention and involuntary treatment of a person are to be used only as a last resort when less restrictive interventions are not likely to be effective or sufficient to remediate the risk presented by the person;
That is where the alcohol tribunal would come into play:
- (b) the least restrictive interventions are to be used when a person is being treated or dealt with under this Act;
- (c) any interference with the rights and dignity of a person are to be kept to the minimum necessary.
That is one of the gaps we have for which we do not seem to have the option except to put them in a little town facility. I have mentioned healing centres as an option before. I was talking to someone the other day and I realised there is a healing centre site and people can apply to the Commonwealth for money for healing centres. That should be the first option, especially for people who come from remote communities. That is the carrot, and the stick is if you move away from that area - I imagine that will not be fenced or secure like our town facilities – then you are required to stay in a more secure facility in Darwin or Alice Springs.
The other area that will need to be looked at is we are living in hope that this program will change people’s lives. The minister has given us some figures of how many people have been assessed and have been put through so far. Of course, people have to stay for three months, so I presume no one in there has come out yet, except for a certain gentleman who has a habit of getting out. We need to look at is whether this has made any difference to a person’s life. The minister has given a figure. It is dangerous to give a figure. I have spoken to people who are involved in voluntary rehabilitation of people with an alcohol problem. Even where people are in voluntarily, rehabilitation is very difficult. Many times people have to go back …
Mr ELFERINK: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I noticed it is just before 5.30 pm and we have the matter of the disorder of the Leader of the Opposition to deal with. Consequently, I move several things. The first thing I move is that the member for Nelson be allowed to continue his comments at a later time.
Then I move that so much of standing orders be suspended as to enable the matter of the Leader of the Opposition’s disorder to be dealt with forthwith, notwithstanding the 5.30 pm suspension for General Business. I consequently move that so much of standing orders be suspended to enable that matter to be brought on forthwith and that the suspension of the Leader of the Opposition be for a period of 24 hours commencing from the time of her ejection from this House.
The reason we do this is that the Leader of the Opposition’s conduct was so gross and offensive, not only to members of this House, the decorum of this House, but also to the Chair, it would be improper for this House not to respond in an appropriate fashion. I have read the standing orders in relation to this, and I understand it is the interpretation of some that this motion should have been brought on immediately. That is one part of the reason we are seeking to suspend standing orders, because it was not brought on immediately.
Nevertheless, the reason this side of the House brings it on is because we believe she has exceeded all sensible decorum. To refer to the Chair as an embarrassment on two occasions on the way out of the door is a reflection on the Chair that deserves to be dealt with in the appropriate fashion. Consequently, that is the motion I bring before the House today.
We have seen from the conduct of the Leader of the Opposition …
Mr WOOD: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I am not sure that my reply is finished. We have not voted to say it should be …
Mr Elferink: Can we deal with the first motion that I put then, which was all of that stuff?
Mr Vatskalis: What is the motion?
Madam SPEAKER: The motion is ..
Mr Elferink: That the member for Nelson be allowed to finish his comments at a later time.
Madam SPEAKER: The motion is that the member for Nelson continue his remarks at a later stage.
Motion agreed to.
Debate adjourned.
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS
Naming of Member for Karama
Naming of Member for Karama
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, my second motion, so that it is clear, is that the normal order of General Business be suspended until such time as this matter is dealt with.
Mr WOOD: A point of order, Madam Speaker! A point of clarification. I do not know anything about what is going on, but if it is going to be a debate, will General Business hours be extended by the period which is lost by this debate?
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Nelson, it will cut into the time of General Business unless the government makes arrangements to the contrary to provide General Business activities at a later time of this week’s and next week’s sittings. So, yes, it will cut into General Business activities between 5.30 pm and 9 pm today.
Mr WOOD: Could I ask, Madam Speaker, for a ruling on whether this should have been dealt with at a particular time because I know nothing about it.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Nelson, that is why the Leader of Government Business is moving to suspend standing orders. The motion before the House is that so much of standing orders be suspended as will allow the matter of naming the member for Karama, the Opposition Leader, to be dealt with forthwith.
Motion agreed to.
MOTION
Suspension of Member for Karama
Suspension of Member for Karama
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, so we can be clear, I move that the suspension of the Leader of the Opposition be for a period of 24 hours, commencing from the time of her ejection from this House. I note that now you have the question before you, under Standing Order 240, that no amendment, adjournment, or debate be allowed and that question be dealt with immediately.
Motion agreed to.
Mr ELFERINK: Mr Deputy Speaker, I thank honourable members for their support in this motion and we are now back on with General Business.
MOTION
Police Beats
Police Beats
Mr VATSKALIS (Casuarina): Mr Deputy Speaker, I move that the House supports the Police Beats currently operating successfully in large shopping centres in the NT and calls upon the government to continue the funding of existing Police Beats and to expand Police Beats in other shopping centres in Darwin and urban centres throughout the Territory.
This is a prehistoric motion I brought to this House a few months ago when I was the shadow minister for Police. Since then, things have changed and I believe my colleague, the member for Fannie Bay, is the shadow minister for Police. The shadow minister for Police or minister in waiting, I should say.
However, I would like to speak about the Police Beats that exist in some of the shopping centres in Darwin. Police Beats have been proven in the past few years to be quite successful.
The reason our government introduced Police Beats was because we had a significant number of incidents from groups of kids who acted unruly, in a totally inappropriate way, within the shopping centres. The security officers could not and would not deal with them. At the same time, we thought it had to be safe to go to a shopping centre without the fear of intimidation or being accosted by people. The then Leader of the Opposition strongly opposed the establishment of Police Beats. He even promised that if he was elected to government he would withdraw all Police Beats. However, the Police Beats have proved they are worth being where they are. A good example is the one in Casuarina, in my electorate. There is nothing more reassuring than walking into a shopping centre to see police in uniform patrolling, acting as a deterrent.
I have witnessed kids, especially after high school finishes, who will, en masse, congregate at Casuarina. Most of them behaved totally appropriately. Some of them thought they were smart enough to cause problems which were totally against proper behaviour.
The Police Beat in Casuarina responds very quickly to incidents, not only in the shopping centre, but in areas around the shopping centre, especially areas where itinerants used to congregate and consume alcohol. In many cases, the police intervene quickly, resolve the situation, move people on, and the place quietens down. The change in atmosphere and the attitude of people visiting Casuarina Shopping Square, has completely changed since the Police Beat was established. It is much easier to deal with police matters in the shopping centre. You see the outlet in the shopping centre and you go there, rather than going to the police station at Casuarina or other police stations around town.
We promised, as government, to put Police Beats in Nightcliff and Karama. None have eventuated, and the current government has no intention of establishing Police Beats in Nightcliff or Karama, despite the fact there are issues in both electorates.
In Nightcliff, if you want to see some of the problems you only have to view some of the public housing there. My colleague, the member for Nightcliff, has discussed this with me many times. In the afternoon you can see people congregated and drinking openly in Nightcliff causing problems. I believe the same thing which applied in Casuarina applies in Karama.
The Chief Minister promised a new Police Beat in Northside, Alice Springs, before the election. After the election, not only did he not put a new Police Beat in Northside, he closed the Police Beat at the Alice Springs mall. When it was established it completely changed the nature of the mall. Since then, the mall in Alice Springs has become a very sad place with so many places closed down or having closing down sales because of the economic downturn, and the downturn in tourism in the mall.
We are talking about alcohol rehabilitation, alcohol consumption, and supply. The presence and high visibility of police in certain places deters people from committing offences, congregating and having drinking parties in public places, and provides protection to people to go about their business unaffected by people who are intoxicated or accosting them for money to buy alcohol.
The O’Sullivan report said police savings would cancel out extra money for the police if Police Beats are established. Of course, we promised extra policemen and managed to get new policemen with further funding, especially with the detention centres being established in Darwin, to address some of the detention issues.
We live in a society much different from the one we grew up in. Kids seem to have many rights at the moment, but often they think they can get away with everything. A police presence in shopping centres discourages them from this kind of behaviour, and will probably help them realise if they do something stupid they will receive appropriate punishment. Punishment could be being told off by the police, being brought into the Police Beat and your parents being called in, or even a warning.
Police Beats are essential. They have proved their worth in shopping centres. Similarly, I would like to see more established in other shopping centres. I call upon the government to reverse any opposition to the establishment of Police Beats in hot spots.
On the other hand, I would like to see the government make an assessment of some of the areas in Darwin and other urban centres. I heard yesterday the Chief Minister highlighting some of the areas around the Territory where a more open police presence in a mobile station in a van in public places will help alleviate some of these problems.
The CLP promised to build the Nightcliff Police Station. Now, we hear this is not going to happen. There are issues in Nightcliff with people congregated in the village shopping centres and the foreshore that can be taken care of by a bigger and more prominent presence of police in the area.
Madam Speaker, I said before I brought this motion to the House before when I was the shadow minister for Police. I do not know how many months ago it was. It was probably more than half a year ago. The main thrust of this motion is the Police Beats are essential; they are doing a wonderful job. I call on the government not only to not close the existing Police Beats but to expand the establishment of Police Beats in other areas around the Northern Territory.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, this has been on the Notice Paper for quite a while. I gather it came up when there was some threat of Police Beats being disbanded, or some discussion about that. I gather they still operate in Darwin.
I put a little reminder in for the rural area. At times, the rural area could do with a little more police presence. We are getting a workers’ camp with 3500 people soon. The new shopping centre at Coolalinga is starting to take shape, with Maccas and Coles Express putting in their applications for development. We already have big Woolworths shopping centres at Coolalinga and Humpty Doo.
Yes, we live in the rural area and in 2013, in case people forget; we are not backward out there. In fact, we are probably far more forward than many people think because we live where there is a bit of space; we do not live on 400 m2 blocks, we have room to breathe, people can hit a cricket ball around their back yard, and you can hear the birds. There might be plenty of traffic on Howard Springs Road but, hopefully, when the construction phase finishes, that will bring some of the quiet of the bush back to residents who are probably wondering if they have lost their rural amenity with the changes that have occurred. As I said …
Mr Chandler: What about Palmerston north?
Mr WOOD: Palmerston north, no. If you would like to raise that with the Speaker, I am sure she will let you know there is a history about Palmerston north, especially when the Litchfield Council put out its rate notice one year and marked them Palmerston north. I would not have gone down Wallaby Holtze Road at that time for the life of me. It was a road that would have been unsafe to any member of the council. However, it was changed to Holtze. We digress, member for Brennan.
I am not sure how the Police Beats are going at Palmerston. All I can say is there is a lot of traffic and many people in the rural area. Sometimes, when these discussions about Police Beats in large shopping centres is put before us, people have a fixation that it is Darwin, Palmerston, maybe Katherine and Alice Springs, and that is it. There are other communities.
I put a word in for the rural area that, at times, it would be good if there was a police presence. I am not saying all the time, but residents would be happy to occasionally see our police on the beat. In fact, it might be nice to occasionally see them on horseback. You see them in Mitchell Street on horseback, and the horses would probably feel much more at home in the rural area. People might even feed them out there. A police presence required at times.
I recently had meetings with our local tavern about some of the issues which have occurred recently. People might have heard of a number of people who were hit by a car at the local tavern one night. There was an indication that the police would step up their presence in the area because on that night there had been some hooning and behavioural issues, at times, with people speeding and doing burn-outs in places like Whitewood Park Estate and Howard River Park. If there is a more consistent presence of police in the area, that behaviour is less likely to occur. Those people would not know when it would happen, only that they would be caught eventually as long as we have a police presence from time to time in the rural area.
Madam Speaker, I support the motion, from a point of view of PR for the police. Seeing police on the beat gives people confidence that they are working in the community and taking some of the issues seriously, and doing work that is for the benefit of the community, keeping the community safe. They should be supported for that, so I support the motion before us now.
Mr GUNNER (Fannie Bay): Madam Speaker, I join with the member for Casuarina in supporting the Police Beats operating in the Northern Territory. He moved this motion a while ago and I am glad we finally got to it in this Chamber. At the time, he was the shadow minister for Police, as he mentioned, and I have now taken that mantle.
The member for Casuarina, in speaking to the original motion, spoke a lot about what we value in what the police do. We thank the police for their work. We see, through the shopfronts and the beats, the police at their most visible. The police, often described as the thin blue line, do a lot of good community work, which is sometimes not appreciated by the community because they do not see it. Through those police shopfronts and the work they do on the Police Beats, there is a genuine appreciation and respect for the work done by police. I know the value of police has greatly improved in the Parap/Fannie Bay/Stuart Park areas since that Police Beat commenced in the Parap shopfront.
The shopfront is open during business hours and staffed by an auxiliary. I know quite a few constituents are traders who often go in there to talk to that auxiliary, and they appreciate that service being available. The president of the shop traders has said quite consistently it has made a real difference to the work they do as traders. Being the president, they have conversations with other traders in that area, such as Roger at Arafura Catering or Neville at Parap Fine Foods. Meta is the secretary of the traders now. You can talk to Fannie Bay traders such as Tim Copping, Manuel Kotis, or Anne Phelan at Stuart Park. The work the police do through that shopfront and beat is greatly appreciated.
The police of the beat usually work that area after hours and it greatly improves the intelligence they gather that feeds into things like the antisocial behaviour patrols. They often do targeted work and make really smart decisions about when and how and what they do. They have been working in the top end of Parap Road and we argue their workload has increased with the Banned Drinker Register being scrapped. That work has been quite clever with the use of horses.
The member for Nelson just spoke about horses. The mounted patrols are incredibly good at raising the visibility of the work police do and are very positive for police relationships.
However, the most effective thing is a police officer on foot. Many of the traders through the area have appreciated the fact that they have got to know their local police, which is part of the value of the Police Beat. Michael Deutrom is the police officer who has worked the longest on that beat. He is now doing other work. It is not fair that I have named one, but he was the one who was most often associated with the Police Beat, and he was fantastic. He was really positive and got to know many of the locals. That is one of the great benefits of having local police on the beat working with traders, improving intelligence and relationships, and making a real difference to the work of police and how they target that work.
The other thing they did quite well is integrate with the Territory Housing safety officers. The Territory Housing safety officers are doing a fantastic job and much of their work has been value added to by that beat. I was at Kurringal the other day. The police are doing much of their training at Kurringal. They arrive in a bus and 30 officers from the college practice some of their work. They have had a very positive relationship with the Territory Housing safety officers. I thank police for the work they are doing in gathering intelligence, improving local relationships, and making a difference. We all know of the hard work of police, who often do not get the full respect they deserve. Through the work they do on Police Beats and by having visible police shopfronts, they promote themselves positively.
Part of the theory behind having the Police Beat is that police should be where the people are: at the Parap shops, the Casuarina shopping centre, and the Alice Springs mall, where, unfortunately, the Police Beat was cancelled. They are at the spots where the people are, therefore, the amount of interaction between the police and the public is increased, and that can only be a good thing.
We support the Police Beats; that is why we introduced them. We hope the new government will continue that support. We are a bit worried by the precedent of the one in Alice Springs, but the police shopfront is still there in Parap. Speaking as a local member, we appreciate the work the police are doing to get on top of those issues locals have and for that positive relationship.
It is, in some respects, harking back to old-school policing. In some ways I do not want to say that because the police went away from that. However, that is what Police Beats are about; you have a relationship that develops with your local police officer and auxiliary. From my conversations with the President of the Parap Shopping Village Traders and other traders at the Parap shops, Fannie Bay shops and Stuart Park, I know they really appreciate the work those police are doing.
Madam Speaker, we support the Police Beats. I am glad my colleague, the member for Casuarina, brought this motion to the House so we could put on the public record the appreciation we have for the work they do and, in this instance, particularly that prism of the police shopfront and the Police Beat. I am sure I can say, on behalf of all members, thank you for the work you do.
Mr GILES (Police, Fire and Emergency Services): Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Casuarina for highlighting a very important issue: law and order. Of course, he would not know a whole lot about law and order, being a member of the Labor Party.
I find it strange that you zero in on Police Beats rather than focus on law and order as a general discussion point, and reflect back on the eleven-and-a-half long dark years of the previous Labor government when all we saw was an escalation in crime to a point where there were so many social issues that, in some areas, it was getting out of control.
We saw an escalation in our prison numbers to a point where they are bursting at the seams. We are a national embarrassment for our incarceration numbers. That is something we have inherited, once again, from Labor which we are continuing to try to fix …
Mr Westra van Holthe: Another fine mess they go us into.
Mr GILES: Another fine mess that Labor gave us, like a hot potato. I know the work of this government, particularly through the guidance and leadership of the minister for Corrections and Attorney-General, Mr Elferink, which he has been providing in working out ways, identifying measures, and putting in place practices that will see a reduction in prison numbers, but more importantly, a reduction in recidivism. His and our commitment, as a government, to Pillars of Justice is reflecting well upon the way in which we want to see a reform in not only the corrections process but also the effects of law and order in our community. The more we can keep people out of gaol, not only is it cheaper for government to operate corrections systems but it provides better social equity to people within our community.
I found it strange that the member for Casuarina would zero in on Police Beats. They are a relatively small part of a very large and complex suite of crime prevention programs and strategies. In fact, member for Casuarina, the framing of your question suggests you believe Police Beats might be under threat, presumably because you have spoken to police when in government, and they told you many do not work as well as they could. If the opposite were true and Police Beats were an inexpensive and effective crime fighting tool, why would you think they would be scrapped?
The Labor opposition, again, is being too cute by half. They know what I know, and they know what police tell me: that Police Beats do not work particularly well when underfunded and under-resourced. Police Beats are expensive, with the beat in Casuarina alone drawing up to 16 police officers from the Casuarina roster. That is not to say people in the Police Beat are not doing a good job and do not provide peace and harmony for many of the shoppers within the Casuarina shopping centre. However, they tie up resources and staff and do very little to deter criminals.
The member for Fannie Bay mumbled things about police in the local shopping centre. The best way I see of policing is the community-based policing strategy to be on the beat rather than behind a desk in a small shopfront ...
Mr Vatskalis interjecting.
Mr GILES: They are not under threat, member for Casuarina. The issue with small shopfronts is they provide a greater deal of confidence to the broader community, but they tie up vast resources in rental of office space, putting in telecommunications lines, the staff and auxiliaries who work there, and a range of other administrative costs. When you think about the benefits of being able to apply those resources to additional police who can be walking or driving around the streets, talking to the general public, and putting in place community-based policing initiatives, it works much better.
In Alice Springs, since we have put in an additional 20 police as part of a 120 police commitment, the town is upbeat. It is upbeat because we provide a great deal of confidence in an economic sense, and the town is feeling upbeat in that way. However, by the police being present on the streets more, it is providing a great level of confidence and policing. It is a more secure environment by half and is just fantastic.
In this job I am in Darwin or other parts of the Territory on a frequent basis; I am not home in my electorate as much as I would like. It is interesting when I go back home after a couple of weeks here or there that I can see the change in the uplift of the community, the economic spirit, and the social cohesiveness. To see police driving around the street on a regular basis is fantastic. I thanked the Assistant Commissioner in Alice Springs recently for the hard work and tenacious efforts under his leadership, but also the local police force because people are feeling more confident and safer within the community.
Police are telling me, when I talk to them on the ground, is Police Beats are a tool that provides a small degree of confidence, but it takes them away from their policing efforts. There are two exceptions to that component, one in Katherine and one in Nightcliff. I am advised by police on the ground that is where it is supported, and there is strong consideration given to those Police Beats staying in their entirety because of the distance from a police station and the ability to be a base for police to carry out their operations from those areas.
The Commissioner of the Northern Territory Police Force has his views on Police Beats and will continue to make recommendations to government on their continuance or otherwise. The Northern Territory Police Association supports the scrapping of all Police Beats with the exception of Katherine. I am not verballing anybody, but I know police and the Police Association want to see police policing, not sitting behind desks. Nobody wants to see people sitting behind desks, least of all police.
The current situation is there are five Police Beat offices in the Darwin metropolitan region: Casuarina Shopping Square, Parap shops, Palmerston Shopping Centre, Nightcliff Police Station and the mobile northern suburbs Police Beat. There are a further two Police Beats in the regional areas of Katherine Shopping Centre and Todd Mall, Alice Springs.
The member for Fannie Bay was accurate when he said the one in Alice Springs is closing. It is in my electorate. I always thought a bad site for a Police Beat was 100 m from a police station. You had to think you would have people tied up with resources in that office who could not get outside. Since we have closed that, what you see is more police riding around on pushbikes, walking around the street, the horses being available, and police at bottle shops to stop the illegal purchases of grog by people who might be intoxicated or are taking grog to a prescribed area. It is better for people to be able to see the police in the community, and it is providing a positive effect.
Ron Thynne from the Red Ochre Grill in the mall frequently saw the elements of crime over many long, dark, hard years of Labor. He is a person who is not afraid to voice his opinion and concern, and has requested that law and order improves. I had the opportunity of catching up with Ron in Alice Springs last week when he thanked the police for their efforts. I thought he was calling us to a meeting to say something was wrong, but he thanked police for their efforts and advised them of the improved response time from the call centre and local police who are cruising around on pushbikes and walking through the mall, providing a safer environment for people who stay at his hotel and people who are going there for breakfast or dinner. He said it is a much safer environment. It is good to see those outcomes being achieved, particularly under the guidance of a Country Liberals government which is firm on law and order.
I spoke earlier today about some of our good outcomes in reductions in alcohol-fuelled antisocial behaviour and the significant reductions in the protective custody elements, up to 55% lower than they were this time last year. It is an amazing change. You can see the changes we made with the Banned Drinker Register and the mandatory rehabilitation component, our drive to get alcohol management plans up, and our continued focus on addressing demand and supply side issues are having a causal effect.
I sit in on a few meetings with the Mayor of Darwin, Katrina Fong Lim. We talk about a range of things from a capital city committee point of view. We had a chat a couple of weeks ago and were talking about how low the numbers are of people who are committing alcohol-fuelled antisocial behaviour on our streets and our parks in the Darwin City Council area. She asked me, ‘Where have all the drunks gone?’ I said, ‘This is a part of the change of policy. If you have your three strikes now in protective custody, you will be going to an assessment process with a view to mandatory alcohol rehabilitation.’
People are changing their behaviour and that is what we want to see. We want people to have the opportunity for rehabilitation. It would be preferable if people went to voluntary rehabilitation, but some people are so addicted to alcohol that mandatory rehabilitation is a mechanism we are using to try to assist them get off that chronic life cycle of alcohol abuse.
When you combine the hard-working efforts of local police, the policy changes and initiatives, and the program elements we are putting in place with our focus on alcohol supply measures, people are starting to get the message and improve their behaviour in our streets. It is making for a more conducive society.
When you put that into the perspective of the Northern Territory being the jurisdiction with the best prospect of economic growth with the tourists coming back thanks to the good guidance of the Tourism minister, Mr Conlan, the member for Greatorex, these elements are all starting to come together and form part of the framework of the Framing The Future document we launched yesterday. It is about the economic drivers, the social cohesiveness and the cultural elements in the environmental landscaping which we operate in. These things are all part of the bigger picture and are all starting to come together.
Sure, there will be hiccups here or there along the way, but as long as we are on an upward slope, they are positive signs for government and the Northern Territory. People all over the place are saying how good things are.
I mentioned in Question Time yesterday my unscripted concerns about what is happening in Tennant Creek at the moment. I am truly concerned about it. Some of the law and order and criminal elements and the alcohol consumption in Tennant Creek is quite concerning. You will see on Friday that the crime stats in Tennant Creek are very bad, particularly for assaults. I should preface that by talking about assaults for a little, then get back to Tennant Creek.
On Friday, one of the reasons you will see that assaults are a lot higher is because many assaults are domestic violence-related assaults by Aboriginal men on Aboriginal women. That is not to generalise and cast aspersions on any race or otherwise, but that is where many of those domestic violence assaults were occurring. Speaking in very rough numbers, around 25% of people in those incidents were being charged with domestic violence and having follow-up accounts. The 25% charging rate was reflective in the assault figures.
We now have new models in place, and new techniques in the way we are doing things. We have identified that 75% of people not being charged for domestic violence is a significant concern. The police are charging more people now. Many more referrals to community organisations are put in place along with intervention measures to help those people in domestic violence situations. That is having a significant effect on domestic violence and the assault charges in the crime figures.
In Tennant Creek, it is much broader than just a changing reporting regime or more charges being laid on domestic violence situations; there is actually much more crime. I am advised a significant component of that comes back to a change in the AFL program in Tennant Creek over a 17-week period. I am unsure, member for Barkly, if you are versed on these issues. I am advised the AFL put on a new development officer who did a lot of work in supporting AFL development and bringing people into Tennant Creek from the region on weekends to participate in AFL. That meant there were many people in town over the weekends and, until this issue was identified and stopped, for that 17-week period there were many people who were living rough, and getting into trouble with grog and other criminal elements in town, which had a devastating effect for that short period of time.
Broader than that are some of the issues around the economic growth opportunities in Tennant Creek. I said yesterday it is going to take a long time to fix some of those things. You cannot have a strong society if you do not have a strong economic growth pattern. When the economic drivers in the community are not there, apart from some normal social and smaller elements, if you do not have the key economic drivers, you just cannot have that strength in the society. That is what we are seeing in Tennant Creek. A month or two ago, I committed to putting a Chief Minister’s Office there so we can have a senior bureaucrat - the job is being advertised at the moment; it may have closed - who can start to identify, collectively across agencies, what the issues are, and start putting in place some program responses working with stakeholders, individuals, and constituents to identify how best to improve the situation and work forward from there.
On a broader scale, I work across many areas of economic opportunity, both in my role as Chief Minister but also in my portfolios of Economic Development, Trade, Asian Relations, and so forth. From the heart, I have a general passion for doing things across the Territory. I am working to identify what some of those economic opportunities are and trying to work out how we can bring some of those to fruition. It is too early to talk about any of those opportunities because they are a very long way away. We are putting in a great deal of hard work to see how we can bring some of those things forward as quickly as we can. I would love to see an opportunity of a major project being able to operate in the Tennant Creek and Barkly region which would see us able to give greater facilitation to advancing the prospects at a speedy rate.
We were looking at what reintroducing open speed limits could mean for the economic opportunity for Tennant Creek and the Barkly region. We know when they were in force before, companies such as Ford used to spend millions of dollars staying in Tennant Creek, hiring the services of security guards, spending money on food and accommodation and all the downstream opportunities that came from that investment. That stopped in 2006 when the speed limits were changed. If there is an opportunity of that coming back, that can present an opportunity for Tennant Creek. We will wait and see if those speed limits can be changed. That is a potential opportunity; however, there are many challenges around that.
We have to ensure we get the economics right, which will see a reduction in crime, not only with our 20 additional police in Alice Springs as part of the 120 additional police we committed to, but also the economic drivers in Alice Springs. They are all working together cohesively.
Back to the motion that is on the table. There is no general direction either way about Police Beats. We have closed the one in Alice Springs. There has been no discussion about any of the other Police Beats to date, and I do not foresee their being any discussion into the future. However, if we see the Police Beats are not producing the outcomes that community-based policing can provide, and I have a recommendation from the Police Commissioner that we do alternate models, so be it, I will take advice from the experts. We want to ensure the police are on the beat. The information I have is the Nightcliff station and Katherine Police Beat are performing at much higher levels than the other Police Beats. I know there are great people working those other offices, but we need to ensure we have the resources on the ground doing the policing.
I say thank you very much to the member for Casuarina for bringing this motion on. It is always a great to have an opportunity to talk about police, and law and order in particular, because the only party which really has a focus on working with the police in collegial fashion and addressing law and order issues for all Territorians is the Country Liberals.
We have been in government for 12 months and have issued the Framing the Future document. We have seen some very positive results in the reduction of crime and antisocial behaviour, with massive results in the reduction in commercial and property crime because people were breaking into premises to get grog. When we start getting a handle on some of the domestic violence issues you will see assault rates come down significantly as well.
It will take us quite a few months to start addressing that, and we want to ensure we address that as quickly as we can.
On a final note, the rate of women being beaten in the Northern Territory is an absolute disgrace. We should all be ashamed of what is happening and what has happened for years. It will take us some time, from a statistical point of view, to get on top of this. We do not want to see any woman, or any man, in that position; the numbers are offensive and outrageous. Police are doing their best to address the issues. This is something we have inherited; but we are not talking about it in a political sense. It is completely offensive and outrageous, and we will continue to do what we can to address the issues.
One of the areas I will be focusing on is strengthening Indigenous men. It is a passion I have had for a long time. I have always thought Indigenous men across Australia - but in the Northern Territory - I speak generally not of all men, but Indigenous men - need a greater supportive role in place, particularly those on the fringes who often succumb to elements of society where they form part of the welfare system, or alcohol abuse or criminal areas. We have to put greater emphasis on these people and I will be doing more work on this into the future. It is something I will take on passionately, and I will try to take on a personal ambassador role to address some of these issues. We need to get skin in the game to start to address some of these things.
Dealing with it from a political point of view and without that emotive compassion, you start to see things statistically and get to the heart of the real problems. It is something I will take on passionately.
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Casuarina for bringing this statement to the House which gave me an opportunity to talk about a whole lot more.
Mr VOWLES (Johnston): Madam Speaker, I support the member for Casuarina’s motion supporting Police Beats operating successfully in large shopping centres in the Northern Territory, and calling upon the government to continue funding existing Police Beats and expand Police Beats in other shopping centres in Darwin and urban centres throughout the Northern Territory.
I thank the Chief Minister for contributing to the Police Beats debate. I am not sure if I heard him say the Nightcliff Police Beat is performing well. My last information is that the Police Beat side of things is not happening for a while. That is a huge concern, not only for the member for Nightcliff and her constituents ...
Ms Fyles: It was moved after the election.
Mr VOWLES: It was moved after the election I have been told. It is an issue for the member for Nightcliff, who I have no doubt will speak at length on this issue as the local member working hard with constituents who have come to her complaining about that. We all remember in April 2013 there was an assault on a business owner. She says antisocial behaviour and public drunkenness is the worst it has been in 10 years, even longer. Since the Police Beat closed, it has returned. Up to five times a day the police were going through Nightcliff shopping centre - I am talking about the Rite Price area - and consumers and businesses felt safe. Now the Police Beat has gone, we are seeing a huge increase in public drunkenness and antisocial behaviour which people have to deal with. I am a frequent visitor to that area and can confirm that and see it most days. It is quite close to my electorate of Johnston. This is a sign that Police Beats work.
During the 2012 election campaign, when I was doorknocking residents of Johnston and listening to their concerns, the mention of a Police Beat was warmly received. It encouraged me to approach the then Chief Minister, Paul Henderson, to ask for an election commitment of a Police Beat in the Rapid Creek shops. He subsequently released, as an election commitment for the people of Johnson, that if we were elected we would put a Police Beat in the Rapid Creek Business Village.
History shows we kept the seat but lost government. People are still asking me about a Police Beat. The Chief Minister is right in saying community people feel safe with a Police Beat. That is correct and I have no issues with that. However, in my area of Johnston - which is what I will talk about - especially Rapid Creek Business Village, where the Rapid Creek markets are, there is antisocial behaviour on a daily basis around that area. Police have been called there many times. There have been thefts; people are stealing scooters from the front of the shops. People have been beaten up, cars are broken into, and drunks walk into businesses, many times for their own safety. It is never a great look and is something we need to address.
There are other hot spot areas in my electorate. At the new Diamond Village or the old Millner shops, there is a constant visitation of people influenced by alcohol. They are sleeping there overnight, defecating, and are running into businesses after being beaten. There is a serious issue there. Business owners are coming to me as the local member.
The other area is Jingili Water Gardens, a real hot spot for people who buy grog, go into the mangroves to drink, then hang around and sleep around the barbecue areas, day and night. They are annoying families having parties there. It is ridiculous sometimes at Jingili Water Gardens. I am constantly reminded by constituents of the antisocial behaviour in that area.
I was doorknocking the other week in the Moil area, and the drunks are back in the street and in the parks which were cleaned up. The government can say there are no more drunks, as they have been taken off the streets. I can only speak for my area, but I am sure the rest of my colleagues will speak of their areas. If you are out doorknocking, you are listening to constituents say drunks are back in our parks. Their normal routine is going from the bottle-o to somewhere else, but they are back in the parks drinking. You cannot hide that; it is there.
Kids should be playing there. We are back to having beer bottles and grog around, and drunks hanging around the playgrounds. This is not good enough. We were cleaning it up; we did clean it up. It is something this government has to address.
Coconut Grove separates my electorate from the member for Nightcliff’s electorate. One side of the road is hers and one side is mine. There is much public housing in our area, especially my area, and a great deal of antisocial behaviour due to alcohol. Because the member for Nightcliff’s office is closer than mine, many constituents go to her. We work collaboratively to address those issues.
One thing I am really proud of is the public safety officers. That initiative has worked and continues to work. On a weekly basis, people come to my office and tell me they are very happy with that service, and we should be proud it is something the former Labor government introduced.
To address these issues, we are constantly on the phone; we have reported to police many times. I take this opportunity to commend the police, especially those from the Casuarina Police Station who have met with me regularly when there were issues, and a number of complaints and people calling the police. They contact me or I contact them, and we arrange to meet. Meeting with the Station Commander to discuss the issues and hot spot areas in the Johnston electorate, what has been reported, and what needs to be done, is proactive policing. Hats off to the police. One person I met took the opportunity, when he met me at the Rapid Creek shops, to go to each business in that village to meet them and say, ‘G’day, how are you going? These are our numbers, make sure you ring us.’ It is very proactive policing.
I am very happy because one of these shop owners lost his scooter from out the front in the middle of the day and, a week later, police brought it back. He is pretty happy with that.
Let us go back to this drunks issue. You promised to remove drunks immediately from the streets; this is not happening. We need to address this - you guys have to address this - because it is affecting every electorate in the Northern Territory. As I said before, you can talk all you want about how you are removing drunks from the street, but residents are telling us you can drive anywhere - on The Esplanade the other day there were a few people drinking at 8 am. That is significant and something you cannot hide.
I remember the member for Blain early this year, or maybe late last year or even before then, saying, ‘We will talk about our drunks policy’, and there were people out the front here having a beer and getting on the juice. We had something that worked; it was call the BDR. Now it is your turn; you are trying something. You need to stop the drunks from drinking in the park at 8 am on The Esplanade. It is disgrace.
Madam Speaker, I commend the motion to the House. Police Beats are a great initiative. They work, and bring safety and police to the community, which is always a positive thing. The more community policing we have, the better it is.
Mr WESTRA van HOLTHE (Primary Industry and Fisheries): Madam Speaker, it is interesting to listen to the contributions of the members opposite and of the Chief Minister. What I glean from this motion and the contributions of those opposite is they seem to take a very simplistic view around a concept called Police Beats.
The Chief Minister, to his credit, articulated a very strong argument, not necessarily to counter the suggestion that Police Beats are required, but that they should form a part of a suite of arrangements that are effective and based on community policing. In that context, I will continue to make a contribution this afternoon.
As the local member for Katherine, and in the course of my previous life as a police officer, law and order in general is a subject that is near and dear to me. The success of establishing Police Beats within the community is open for debate. In general, I acknowledge and agree with the Chief Minister that Police Beats tie up resources, are largely expensive to run and, in most cases, have been ineffective in reducing crime and antisocial behaviour.
In my experience - and this goes, much in the same vein as the Chief Minister, to the nub of this - a Police Beat in and of itself does not reduce crime and antisocial behaviour. What does work - and the Chief Minister alluded to this - is high visibility: proactive patrols of uniformed police officers. That is the type of policing that works, even though it sounds a little old-fashioned. The member for Fannie Bay also suggested this. At least the member for Fannie Bay is thinking more broadly than just around some simplistic concept of a Police Beat and the efficacy of that as a means to deal with the problems we have with crime and antisocial behaviour.
In pursuing the argument, in a very practical sense, what is a Police Beat? That is the question that needs to be asked. It is a building or an office space that acts as a shopfront. The shopfront would, arguably, be staffed by an auxiliary for a period of eight hours or whatever was determined by the roster. The question then needs to be asked: how would one auxiliary located behind a desk - and we all respect our auxiliaries in the police force - be able to reduce crime and antisocial behaviour? I pose that it would be very difficult.
Add to the mix a couple of sworn police officers. These would be officers with all the powers they require to do their job using the Police Beat as a place to rest, do their paperwork, or work on the computer. That changes the paradigm. What else would those police officers be doing? They would not be sitting behind a desk for eight hours of a shift. I hope they would be doing the patrols I described a moment ago: the high visibility, proactive patrols of the streets or the shopping centre, or wherever was required. I repeat, it is not the Police Beat that becomes a measure to deal with crime and antisocial behaviour, it is the application of resources that makes the difference.
One could argue that the same application of resources and police officers doing those great patrols I described could be done from a police station rather than a Police Beat. Police Beats or no Police Beats, the success of whatever the police engage in comes down to the effective and efficient application of their resources in a way that also uses intelligence-led principles. Resourcing is the key, not the Police Beat.
Which brings me to where I need to be, and the Chief Minister mentioned this in his contribution to this motion this afternoon. When the previous Labor administration introduced Police Beats, they were underfunded and under-resourced and, like so many of their initiatives, rushed through before the proper planning was conducted. The Police Beats established in Nightcliff, Palmerston and Casuarina where clearly put in place for one reason: to win votes. They simply wanted to buy community support by putting a fluffy piece of policy out there that said, ‘We are going to have Police Beats’.
However, when it came down to the establishment of a Police Beat in Katherine, I cannot help but accuse the opposition of blatant hypocrisy. It makes me wonder why the member for Casuarina would bring a motion like this to the House and lead with his chin in the way he has today, because I am going to talk about the Katherine Police Beat and how that came into being.
The previous Labor government was not interested in listening to or helping the Katherine community reduce antisocial behaviour and crime from occurring in our town. Obviously the previous government recognised that Katherine residents cannot be bought with an ill-thought-out, rushed-out process that lacked proper planning and resourcing. The previous government ignored Katherine until the local business owners banded together and demanded action. I am glad there are a couple of new members who are able to listen to this debate tonight because this will give you some insight into exactly what happened.
The Katherine Police Beat was established because the Katherine business community got sick of waiting for the previous government to recognise there was a large antisocial problem in the township. The local shopping centre and the CBD main street businesses demanded a greater police presence. The Katherine Police Beat was established because members of the Katherine business community, in conjunction with the local police in Katherine - not any initiative of government - made it happen. It was certainly not because of any actions undertaken by the then Police minister or the previous government.
The Katherine Police Beat office was established because the Katherine business community got sick of waiting for the previous government to do something meaningful about tackling crime and antisocial behaviour and making their community a safe and enjoyable place to shop and conduct business. It was the Katherine business community which negotiated a peppercorn rent with the owners of the major shopping centre in order to establish the police shopfront in the heart of the shopping district. The Katherine business community liaised with the local police to determine exactly what was needed and where best this shopfront could be located.
The previous government had no choice in the end but to come to the party and accept that the Katherine community was not going to be ignored on the issue of establishing a Police Beat that would tackle crime and antisocial behaviour. Quite frankly, the former Labor government was embarrassed and humiliated into supporting the Katherine Police Beat, but not before all the work that needed to be done had virtually been done.
The list of businesses that got behind this project is huge and an indication of the sheer determination of the community to get a police presence located in the heart of the CBD, and to be treated equally under the former government’s policy of establishing these Police Beats. Of course, we all know that Labor never much cared for Katherine, never has, never will.
It is interesting to see how many businesses worked to establish the Katherine Police Beat. These businesses I am about to mention contributed either in the form of cash, goods or in-kind support to the establishment of the Katherine Police Beat. They include: the Chamber of Commerce; Betta Electrical; Centro; Woolworths; the Katherine Town Council; Norplumb; Travel North; the Stuart Hotel; the Katherine Art Gallery; Chris the Cabinet Maker; Custom Cabinets Katherine; Mitre 10; Hohn’s Sheet Metaland; Steven Dobson Pty Ltd; The Katherine Times; Katherine Window Tint; TIO; Cerbis; the Five Star Supermarket; CSR Ltd; Nordraft; NT Technology; Territory Development Consultants; Lex Ford, Roy Saunders; Katherine Lock and Key; Kelly’s Spraying; Airborne Solutions; Whitehouse Furnishers; Bonash Maintenance Services; Office of the Chief Minister Katherine - I am not sure how they contributed - Lawrence Flannery Painting and Design; Craig McPherson; Paint Spot; Tradelink; and Katherine Office Supplies.
All of those businesses, as I said earlier, contributed either in cash, goods, labour, or in-kind support to establish the Katherine Police Beat which is located at Shop 2 in the Katherine Central Shopping Centre. It is open for business from 9 am to 5 pm week days and 9 am to 1 pm on Saturday. Importantly though, police also liaised with the local businesses and, lo and behold, do what I suggested previously: conduct foot, bicycle, and licensed premises patrols.
The Police Beat established in the Katherine Shopping Centre is just one of two Police Beats operating outside the Darwin/Palmerston areas. The other was in the Todd Mall in Alice Springs. It is with interest I note the Commissioner of Police recently closed the Alice Springs Todd Mall Police Beat and allocated those policing resources to other areas of demand. As the Chief Minister mentioned in his contribution this afternoon, having a Police Beat 100 m or so from the main police station in town seems a little nonsensical.
However, every indication from the Northern Territory Police is the Police Beat in Katherine is working. It is effective in reducing crime and antisocial behaviour due, in part, to its unique location at the heart of town but, more importantly, because of the application of policing resources to ensure it is effective. We can thank the local business community for making this happen. In fact, I understand that while the Northern Territory Police Association wants to scrap Police Beats the exception, as mentioned by the Chief Minister, is the Katherine Police Beat because it is working so well.
I commend the Katherine business community and the Katherine police for their efforts to tackle crime and antisocial behaviour and make Katherine a better place to visit, shop, and do business.
However, it seems a little hypocritical and disingenuous of the member for Casuarina to stand before this parliament and talk about the importance of Police Beats when his government ignored the requirements of Katherine when it came to implementing their policy of Police Beats.
The Police Beat the former government ignored, the one it decided not to pursue until it was humiliated into supporting it, is the one that is working the best. Go figure! Does that not leave open a question about the judgment of the former government when it came to setting up Police Beats and implementing their policy? I probably safely covered that before when I said establishment of these Police Beats was an attempt to buy votes in the community.
Madam Speaker, I reiterate that Police Beats, if they are located well, resourced properly and are part of a community policing strategy that is effective and well-resourced, can work. No one on this side is abjectly opposed to Police Beats. However, the Police Beat is not the cure for all the ills of crime and antisocial behaviour in the Northern Territory which the member for Casuarina would have us believe.
Ms FYLES (Nightcliff): Madam Speaker, I support this motion and call on the government to expand Police Beats in locations across the Territory. In fact, the Chief Minister, only days before last year’s election, called for placing a Police Beat in his electorate in Alice Springs. In media reports at the time, he said a Police Beat would:
- ... provide a base for police to provide that community-based policing and keep our shops clean and safe ...
We have just heard from the member for Katherine all the reasons why Police Beats should not be placed anywhere except Katherine, yet the Chief Minister called for one last year before the election.
Chief Minister, it is for these reasons the residents of Nightcliff want you to deliver on the promised 24/7 police station for our community. I was extremely disappointed, as were residents of the Nightcliff area, to see no funding in the recent budget for the promised Nightcliff police station, an election commitment this government took to last year’s election. The contract the CLP signed during last year’s election campaign with the Nightcliff community has been torn up. This was a commitment and promise to deliver a 24/7 police station to an area that is already growing in population and, with more infill planned under your government’s policies, that growth sure to continue. My colleague, the member for Johnston, spoke about the unique area in Nightcliff, Rapid Creek and Coconut Grove. We have a number of different residential properties. It is an interesting, diverse area and it needs to be supported with a 24/7 police station.
As a community, we are already dealing with increased antisocial behaviour since the BDR was scrapped by your government. Your government has allowed 2500 people to start drinking again, and has allowed children to be the victims of alcohol by letting these people drink again. The levels of antisocial behaviour in our community are unacceptable.
The Chief Minister comes into parliament and claims that alcohol-related antisocial behaviour across the Territory is down. It is unbelievable. Chief Minister, you may want to read those statistics and reflect on that, but in the Nightcliff area, I can tell you that is not the case. I urge you to visit Nightcliff. No one believes you when you say antisocial behaviour has declined; it is worse than ever.
I am aware of police being called regularly to deal with antisocial behaviour. Shopkeepers are being assaulted. Earlier this year, a shopkeeper only a few doors down from the Nightcliff electorate officer was assaulted. It was reported in the NT News. The shopkeeper reported that when the local Police Beat was in place, antisocial behaviour improved:
- … when the police beat was in place, officers would walk through the centre about five times a day - meaning the troublemakers either stayed away, were moved on or were better behaved.
They are the words of the local shopkeeper in Nightcliff. She went on to say:
- The problem had almost disappeared during the day …
She went on to call for the local Police Beat to be reinstated:
- I’d love for it to be reinstated …
referring to the local Police Beat.
Active local policing worked. That is what the residents of Nightcliff and Rapid Creek want; that is what they tell me. Customised Police Beats are ensuring the local communities’ needs are met for their area.
In Queensland, as I understand, they were launched in 1993 after the success of two pilot programs. Tonight we have listened to the member for Katherine say the only Police Beat that works is the one in Katherine. We want what his community has. Currently, as I understand in Queensland there are 46 neighbourhood Police Beats operating with the aim to reduce crime rates and the number of calls for service, identify and target local problem areas, reduce the fear of crime, and provide a place where local community members can talk with police. That is active local policing, and that is what the residents of my electorate are calling for. Currently, they do not feel safe visiting their local shops or playgrounds. They are dealing with incidents of antisocial behaviour.
Your government promised to clean up the streets immediately, yet the problem has never been worse. The most irritating thing for most people is we all know antisocial behaviour has many elements - alcohol and many different issues. It was your promise to clean up the streets immediately, except it has gone the other way; it has become worse. You have allowed 2500 people to go back to drinking.
The budget earlier this year failed to support police and completely failed to deal with antisocial behaviour. The member for Katherine, as a former police officer, raised resourcing, which brings me to the NT Police Association’s media release issued only a few weeks ago, appalled that Chief Minister Giles failed to deliver on his government’s commitments to recruit 120 new police officers:
- Mr Mills committed to recruit an extra 120 Police officers at our Annual Conference in August last year and subsequently at numerous other times post-election NT Police Association Acting President Tim Lloyd said.
Mr Giles reiterated this commitment stating in June this year: ‘I welcome the 120 new positions and note my awareness that policing is beyond the front line.
You have let police down. You have let your own officers down. They went on to say:
- The Chief Minister has just advised us that the funding of the additional 120 police will be partly met by civilianising existing police positions – only 109 new police officers will be recruited.
This is completely at odds with the public statements and election promises of both CLP leaders.
Mr Giles has misled our members and the NT Community.
The NT Police Association does not trust you and neither does the community. You need to resource the police and put Police Beats across the Northern Territory, and you need a 24/7 police station in Nightcliff as you promised.
The electorate of Nightcliff has a large amount of open space, beautiful parks and reserves stretching along the foreshore from the coastal reserve near Rapid Creek to Nightcliff and on to Coconut Grove. These areas are not only enjoyed by local residents but large numbers of visitors. They attract not only well-meaning visitors who enjoy the space and behave responsibly but, for many years, have also been a place for people to gather and drink to the point of causing harm to themselves and others, causing disturbances into the night. Residents put up with screaming, yelling, talking. It is a problem; they call the police but these people are not breaking any law. It is a council issue of people camping illegally, and it is hard work to get on top of it.
That is what my electorate is dealing with, and it is worse since the BDR was scrapped and people can easily access alcohol. This is the point I keep making, because I do not think the Chief Minister and the government get it.
In the election campaign last year, you promised you would immediately remove the problem drunks from the streets, yet it has never been worse. As I have stated many times in this House, my office has had to call the police after witnessing antisocial behaviour fuelled by alcohol. It is almost like clockwork. We turn up at the office in the morning, people start hanging around and loitering, waiting to get alcohol.
Residents have contacted my office to express their frustration with this issue, and how bad the problem is. I have just spoken about being kept awake at all hours by the antisocial behaviour. There are break-ins to their homes, and people are using residents’ front gardens and parks as toilet facilities. People have had enough. People are sleeping on the front verandah of the local childcare centre. The problem is fuelled by alcohol and the lack of a Police Beat and a police station in Nightcliff.
After 10 months of waiting, we finally got to see your government’s alcohol policy, which was half-baked and rushed through in the middle of the night. Everyone asked you to halt, including the experts. But, no, you knew better. The legislation had 43 committee stage amendments. If there was a wake-up call that would be it. No, you rushed it through; it is destined to fail.
After six weeks, the legislation had no real impact on the antisocial behaviour issue. In the first six weeks of the BDR, 858 people were not able to get takeaway alcohol. Those 858 people were not drinking in our parks and community, versus nine people at the same point who have been taken into mandatory rehabilitation under your legislation.
It does not address the crucial supply issue, which brings me back to the Police Association and one of the key points in their recent bulletin. As the Alice Springs People’s Alcohol Action Coalition has publicly stated:
- The BDR was designed in the full knowledge that some people would still be able to get some grog. It was about people obtaining less alcohol and getting less drunk less often because they could not buy takeaway grog anywhere and secondary supply was banned. This is a very legitimate approach to dealing with alcohol-dependant people.
- There was also a clear, considered pathway to treatment … The BDR would have helped drinkers on the road to recovery through the incentive to get off banning notices ...
The Police Association was asking you to take time to wait for the evidence to see what the BDR did, but, no, it was dismembered by the government purely for political reasons, not addressing the crucial issue of supply. That is the problem causing so much antisocial behaviour in the Nightcliff area.
The Parap Police Beat is a great community initiative for engagement, allowing the public access to police services. It is highly visible, and the police can have a presence in the heart of Parap village to help them tackle policing issues and crime in the Parap/Fannie Bay area.
It is what the community of Nightcliff needs and welcomes. I cannot get across to you how much frustration residents in my local area are experiencing with the antisocial behaviour on a daily issue. They copy me into e-mails and call my office; they are distressed at the increase of it, all as a result of the government reducing the Police Beat and removing the Banned Drinker Register.
I come back to the point of the election campaign last year. Your party campaigned on the platform that the Nightcliff police station would be open 24/7. This has not happened. All evidence shows the exact opposite has taken place with the police patrols from the station being removed. That is a grey area I do not seem to be able to get a straight answer on. I can tell you there is not an active police presence as if we had a 24/7 police station. Police are frustrated, they are travelling from Casuarina to do patrols trying to do their best, but the tools they need to support them are not there.
You may say that Nightcliff is better served as a column on the Casuarina police station roster, but I am told that is not working. They are trying their hardest. The mounted police come out but they can only do so much. The issues go up the list. We have a police presence that goes back down, then comes back up; it is a cycle. We need a 24/7 police station in our community.
The member for Karama wanted to contribute to this motion and would like to remind the government there needs to be a Police Beat at Karama Shopping Centre, as I am sure there needs to be at many other locations across the Territory. These are active, local community policing resources, and she is campaigning on delivering a Police Beat in the 2016 election to remind people the CLP has failed to deliver.
There was nothing in the budget for the 24/7 police station in Nightcliff. It was a commitment in all your election materials in the campaign last year. The previous Chief Minister, Terry Mills, said he would honour that commitment to the people of Nightcliff and Rapid Creek, yet it is not in the budget this year from the Giles government. Interestingly enough, at the same time the CLP broke its promise to spend money to upgrade the Nightcliff police station to make it 24/7; it made the Alice Springs Police Station 24/7. It should not be one part of the Territory misses out because another part gets it; it is illogical. If the CLP applied the same rules for Nightcliff, the police station would be there. This government is making personal funding decisions and is happy to break promises.
The Police Association has urged you to rethink your policing numbers and some of your alcohol policies, yet you stand your ground that you are right and because the BDR was not your policy, it was wrong. The Chief Minister tells us all these statistics - mind you, he will not table his documents - point to the level of antisocial behaviour reducing. He is living in a bubble.
Only yesterday morning, just before parliament started, on The Esplanade there was antisocial behaviour with people yelling, screaming and drinking at 8 am. Along the Nightcliff foreshore on whatever evening I go to the playground with the children there are always issues. Sadly, we turn a blind eye to it, but it is not acceptable.
I call on the government, and the Chief Minister, to deliver on their commitment of a 24/7 police station. I commend this motion to this House that we support the current operating Police Beats, and call on the government to continue to expand the Police Beats in other shopping centres in Darwin and urban centres across the Territory.
The member for Katherine spoke of how wonderful the Katherine Police Beat was for a good 15 minutes. That is fantastic to hear. I was there only a few weeks ago and saw it. It puts policing into people’s communities; that is the idea. It is not inconvenient because some officers are tied up opening a shop; it is more than that. The one at Casuarina shopping centre is ensuring our police officers are interacting in our community. That is what we want from a 24/7 police station in the Nightcliff area. It is something I will speak of time and time again because that is what the residents of my area want me to do. The right thing is for your government to deliver that. I call on you to do that.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I commend this motion to the House.
Mr CONLAN (Central Australia): Mr Deputy Speaker, I ask the member for Nightcliff if it is only in the last 12 months she has felt the need for a 24-hour police station, or has this been a burning issue in Nightcliff for a long time? Is it only in the last 24 months that this growing urgent need for a 24-hour police station has suddenly come to your attention? I would like to know.
What were the views of the previous member for Nightcliff if this was such a burning issue? For the member for Nightcliff to suggest all the drunks and all the break-ins suddenly appeared in the last 12 months, and all the violence on the streets and the antisocial behaviour is a result of the diminished services provided by Police Beats, is ludicrous. It is pathetic. If it was not so pathetic, it would be hilarious.
The garbage peddled by that side! You had 10 years to get this right. All of a sudden, in the last 12 months, everything has turned south; everything has gone to dust. In the previous 10 years you had an exemplary record, did you? Can you hold your head high and suggest during the previous 10 years, the 10 years of hard Labor, you tackled law and order and in the last 12 months everything suddenly turned to dust? Is that what you are saying?
Let us look at some of the facts. Before we start, let us look at this. This is what the previous 10 years of your administration gave us. Here we go. Front page of the Centralian Advocate, ‘Terror on Stott Terrace’. This is after the Police Beats had been introduced. In 2009 the Police Beats were opened in Alice Springs. I remember the Chief Minister, the member for Braitling, and I attended the opening. February 2011, ‘Terror on Stott Terrace. Sign of the crimes’ was the headline. October 2010, ‘Slash, dash and bash. Unhappy ending after a night at the movies.’ You could not even go to the pictures in Alice Springs without being slashed, dashed and bashed. That is the front page of the Centralian Advocate.
Here we have, ‘Death in the Frontyard’. Goodness me: ‘Police believe a 49-year-old man killed on Wednesday night was hit with a large blunt object’. That is 10 December 2010, another front page of the Centralian Advocate.
More of the wonderful legacy left by 10 years of the former administration, ‘Forced to bed down at work’. This is a beauty:
- Vandals trashed the Olive Pink Botanic Garden four times in the last week, causing about $20 000 worth of damage.
The date is 14 January 2011. The Police Beat had been open for 18 months.
It is amazing that the drunks, the break-ins, and the violence have only just begun. The member for Nightcliff had her head in the clouds on the fifth floor for too long working for the member for Casuarina. She did not bother to open her eyes and see this had been going on for a decade.
It continues. Alice Springs 11 January 2010:
- Alice night patrol fiasco.
- Only one vehicle on the roads
- Staff numbers dangerously low
- A senior member of the Tangentyere Night Patrol says the service is close to dysfunctional.
Holy cow, it is out of control, it is a shemozzle!
- Off the hook.
- Cops let rock thrower go, claims cabbie.
- Taxi driver Colin Dawson was relieved to see a police car nearby shortly after a rock thrower shattered two of his windows as he drove through town.
It continues. Do not worry, we have a litany of it, all under your administration.
‘Bill ‘em and sue ‘em. Govt must start paying for crime …’ In Alice Springs, a well-known local businessman was making a claim.
Here we go, another headline, ‘Enough. Is this the Alice Springs we want …’ No, it is not the Alice Springs we want and thank God we have an opportunity to turn it around:
- 10.30 pm Wednesday: Police disperse gangs of thugs near the Stuart Terrace park.
This was the headline for 29 January 2010. The Police Beat the member for Nightcliff advocates so strongly had already been in force for about three or four months, perhaps a bit longer; it might have been since August or September 2009.
This is Alice Springs, Friday, 5 February 2010:
- Nightmare by the park. Alice Springs MLAs Adam Giles and Alison Anderson help ambulance officers care for a woman who they saw thrown out of a car onto bitumen by the RFDS park, where she lay unconscious.
This is ridiculous. The Alice Springs Police Beat had already been in force for about six months.
Alice Springs Centralian Advocate, Tuesday, 2 February 2010:
- Alice Springs shop owner robbed three times and then assaulted. Sorry business.
The Alice Springs Police Beat had been in operation for four to five months.
Here we go: ‘$10 A Beer. Bootleg grog sold in suburban houses.’ There is a great one to justify your BDR. You are so upset we stopped the BDR, which did not work. If it did we would have kept it. ‘$10 A Beer’, bootleg beer.
- Run Over like a Dog.
- Great-grandfather …
- … has been forced to cancel his family Christmas reunion after a motorbike rider ploughed into him on a footpath, sending him cartwheeling and leaving him with serious multiple injuries.
Goodness me, cop that!
This is a beauty from 14 January 2011:
- Alice Karting Club patron … MLA Adam Giles …
Once again the current Chief Minister getting the front page:
- … and club president Gary Burns yesterday check out where thieves broke through the club’s canteen roof, resulting in structural damage and stock losses.
This went on and on ever since the Police Beat.
‘West Side Story in Alice Springs’ is a beauty. This is the most appalling, and shows where things got to under your administration while we sat here for 11 years in opposition. I was here for five of those and we were saying something serious was going to happen. If ‘West Side Story in Alice Springs’, local businessmen being broken into, people lying unconscious in the streets in Alice Springs after being seriously assaulted, the front page headline saying, ‘Police disperse gangs of thugs near Stuart Terrace’, is not serious enough, which it was, it reached a high point with this headline on Thursday, 3 May 2012, while the Police Beat was in operation in Alice Springs and had been in operation close to three years, ‘Tourists raped at gunpoint’.
That is the legacy you left: tourists raped at gunpoint. It is right there. We all know the horrific story. It happened in my electorate; it was a despicable act. It is a disgraceful opposition member who said, ‘In the last 12 months you pulled out resources from these Police Beats and all of a sudden there has been this huge spike in crime. Nightcliff has been overrun by gangs and by property crime and violent crime.’ Yes, probably because that is the legacy you left us. It is like turning a big ship around; it does not happen overnight. You have left us with an enormous job …
Mr Chandler: And no money!
Mr CONLAN: …Yes, exactly right, thank you, member for Brennan: no money to address it.
However, we are starting to see some inroads. Alice Springs is a changed town. For the first time in living memory, Alice Springs has half the Cabinet based there. It is amazing what can be achieved when you have ministerial direction on the ground in Alice Springs. It is absolutely incredible. Unlike you guys who turned your back on it. You did not care. At one stage, the minister for Central Australia was the member for Daly, based at Coolalinga. He was the fly-in fly-out minister for Central Australia. Then you put that other guy in who was completely asleep at the wheel, Karl Hampton. Thank God we have seen the back of him because he did nothing for Alice Springs. The last 10 years are testament to his failure.
Let us have a look at some of the other issues. I will quote from this Property Council document. I love this document. I pull it out every now and then; it is 10 years of hard Labor. It is a great little bible I keep in the top drawer and pull out every now and then when we need to fire a shot across the bow of these guys who have their heads in the clouds. Everything has changed in the last 12 months, but for the better. For them, of course, it is for the worse.
The Property Council of Australia’s 2011 damning report into the performance of the Henderson government highlighted just how poorly Labor was delivering on core government services. The report called My City, My People’s Verdict rated the Henderson Labor government last in the provision of affordable housing, health services, education, and law and order. It is there in the report. It is not a Country Liberals report, it was not an opposition report, this was a report from the Property Council which rated the Henderson Labor government last in the provision of services on law and order.
The NT News on Sunday 23 January 2011 said the Northern Territory government rated the worst in the nation. It is not just a coincidence; this is not just a one-off. They were telling us from all directions you guys were pretty hopeless. They were telling us from everywhere: the Property Council, the people on the streets, the people in the bush.
We were talking about it before, member for Arnhem. At what stage did you win your seat? It might have been about 6.45 pm. It was a convincing win. A minister of the Crown was toppled at about 6.45 pm on election night. Pretty convincing! It did not need to go to preferences, or to the Monday count. It was all over in about 45 minutes. Done-ski! Gone! She is in, the other one is out! Pretty convincing. People in the bush, the Property Council, the Business Council, the newspapers were telling us you guys were hopeless: the worst government in the nation.
If that is not enough I have more. Crime rates in the Northern Territory were twice as high as the Australian average and, in most categories, they were significantly higher. I am reading from the Police, Fire and Emergency Services Annual Report from 2009-10 - a document I have had for a couple of years - just when you guys were about to be turfed out.
There were 570 more crimes against the person in 2009-10 than there were in 2008-09. Tracking backwards, clearly, the rate of violent assaults had risen by 80% under the Labor government’s decade of denial. They are still in denial; they still cannot own up to it and face it. You guys are out for a reason. Assaults had risen by 80% during a decade of the Labor government from 2001 to 2011.
In the previous financial year, there were 7296 crimes against the person in the Northern Territory, compared to just 6726 in the previous financial year. There were still many assaults and crimes; they had gone up. That is an 8.5% increase in just 12 months.
On average, there were 18 crimes against the person in the Northern Territory every day, and that was under the previous administration, while the Police Beats were in full operation. The Police Beat in Alice Springs did not work; it was hopeless. You would turn up, and push the button. Someone in Darwin would answer the phone and say, ‘Yes?’ ‘I am reporting an assault happening in front of me right now’, and the reply would be, ‘What is your name? What is your phone number? Who are you?’ The person reporting the crime would then reply, ‘No, you need to get someone here right now, because there is an assault taking place right now, in broad daylight, in the Todd Mall, right under the nose of the Police Beat. There is no one in there, I have to push the button’. ‘Oh, can you go around the corner to the police?’ ‘No, I need someone here.’ ‘Oh okay, I need your name.’ It was an absolute shemozzle!
That money is much better directed to frontline police services, getting police on the beat, and preventing this sort of stuff, which is exactly what is happening. We have already moved to have the Alice Springs Police Station operating 24 hours a day. That is a marked difference to where we have come from.
I have more statistics. These are appalling figures but, for the sake of this argument, they have to be read - for the sake of that speech by the member for Nightcliff. I know she is new to the Chamber but, member for Nightcliff, you have been around long enough. You have been in the Northern Territory long enough to know what you said tonight was absolute garbage. You have seen it. The crimes on the street in Nightcliff did not just happen in the last 12 months. They have been around for the last 12 years, and we have a big job to turn it around. It will not happen overnight, it is a huge job to address this culture.
Alice Springs has felt the brunt of Labor’s failed law and order policy since around 2004 and 2005. Robbery has increased by 450%. In the last nearly 10 years - this document was written in 2010, three years ago. Since 2004-05, looking at eight years, robbery has increased by 450%, assault by 87%, sexual assault by 97%, including tourists raped at gunpoint.
When is enough, enough for you? When did you realise? When did the penny drop? I do not think it ever did. When did you realise, ‘We have lost control of this; I do not think we are getting on top of it’? Did it ever occur to you after that headline that two young backpackers, so vital to the Northern Territory and Alice Spring’s economy and community - the very people we are trying to attract - were raped at gunpoint? Holy cow! It just did not seem to dawn; the penny never dropped.
Sexual assault was up by 97%, house break-ins by 64%, commercial break-ins by 185%, motor vehicle theft by 97%, and property damage by 71%. This great document goes on.
The Northern Territory’s crime wave was taking its toll on people’s feeling of safety at home. How safe did people feel in their own home and in their own community? I will tell you: 36% of Northern Territory adults felt unsafe compared to just 26% of adults nationally. It was well above the national average.
The Northern Territory had the highest proportion of prisoners in gaol for assaults at 39%, almost double the national average of 20%. The Territory also has the highest proportion of prisoners in gaol for theft. No kidding? We do not need a statistic, I do not need to read it, we all know it. You know it, or maybe you do not. The sad thing is, I do not think you do, despite all this evidence, not just from the paper, but from the public and various stakeholder groups around the Northern Territory all saying you have to do something. It was all about maintaining just the northern suburbs.
It is interesting because you did maintain the northern suburbs, but you still lost government. That is remarkable in itself. There is a reason for that: you dropped the ball. The penny never dropped, you did not get it. We told you for years that something serious was going to happen. ‘Oh no, we have it under control. We have the Police Beats, we have more police on the streets. We have our BDR.’
What else did you have? You used to come up with all these band-aid solutions, plus tinkering with legislation. It was incredible; you would bring in legislation aimed at targeting antisocial behaviour, you would realise it did not work, and we would be back in this Chamber making amendments to it because it was completely flawed. It was remarkable. It was the ‘oops’ bill, which I know the member for Barkly is familiar with. We told you so, you did not listen, and you are over there.
You say the Police Beats were so successful, and we are destroying the Territory way of life and adding to the crime wave that, all of a sudden, just appeared. This crime wave suddenly appeared like a tsunami or a cyclone hitting town on 25 August 2012. All of a sudden, your eyes have been opened. Yes, you have done pretty well. I have to give the member for Nightcliff something; she has done pretty well. You have watched us for the last 10 years campaign on law and order. But it does not work for you because you had your chance; you had your opportunity. You had 10 years; in fact, you had 11 years. You could have done something at any point, but you did not. You did not take it seriously and you turned your back on the rest of the Northern Territory. As long as the northern suburbs were safe, you felt, ‘Yes, we can maintain our position.’ But the rest of the Northern Territory turned against you because you turned against them.
You turned against us; we tried to tell you. I said in this Chamber for a long time that if there was ever a chance you might gain the respect and support of Alice Springs, then was your chance. Your term in government was your chance. You have never won a seat in Alice Springs or in Katherine. You have never won a seat in any of those towns and there is a reason for it. It is not impossible and it is not beyond your reach, you just need to start showing those communities a little respect. You had your time, you had your opportunity, and you blew it.
Now you are paying the price, so do not come in here and start telling us this motion - I do not even know what it is; it is something to do with Police Beats and how the closure of Police Beats has caused this huge tsunami of crime across the Northern Territory. That is very cute, member for Casuarina.
However, Mr Deputy Speaker, we are not buying it and neither is the Northern Territory community.
Mr McCARTHY (Barkly): Mr Deputy Speaker, I support this motion. For all the constituents of the Northern Territory who are listening to this broadcast, that was the member for Greatorex exposing a career reading newspapers into a lonely microphone. As a minister of the Crown, what he did not provide for constituents was any solutions to that diatribe of reading newspapers into a lonely microphone. I suppose what he needed was a call back so people could phone in and make comments.
I support this motion because, as a member of the opposition and the voice of Northern Territory people, we put forward their vision, views and voices. This motion has come from constituents; it has come from a Northern Territory constituency. It relates to police presence.
The Chief Minister has contributed to the debate in a positive light. An ex-police officer, the member for Katherine, contributed to the debate with logistical comments around Police Beats. However, what the Chief Minister and the member for Katherine have said is they agree with the motion because the concept is about a positive police presence.
In urban areas and other jurisdictions we can document that a Police Beat, or police presence in a shopping centre, makes the public feel safe. The member for Katherine was able to craft that into a logistical debate and tried to counter the claim. What the member for Katherine knows to be true is it is about how the police station interfaces with the Police Beat to increase visibility of police on the streets, which makes people feel safe.
I will talk briefly about the people in the bush; they want to feel safe as well. Wherever I go in the electorate of Barkly and across other electorates, people in the bush ask for police stations. They ask, basically, for a police presence. Police and policing makes people feel safe. This motion is very simple. It is a motion that has come from the people and talks about an initiative that is effective policing. It is about community engagement.
I will make some comments on the Chief Minister’s dialogue about Tennant Creek. I encourage the Chief Minister to come back to Tennant Creek and continue his research because he has some skewed messages. The first one I comment on is the Chief Minister’s talk about domestic violence. In the previous Northern Territory government, as the crime statistics for assaults were dropping throughout the Northern Territory, I was a Cabinet minister who had to face the reality they were rising in Tennant Creek. While my colleagues were celebrating the reduction in assaults - that important work - I had to face the fact that in the town I live in and the electorate I represent, crime statistics were increasing.
I asked why. We had to look at it very closely. I discovered something positive out of that bad statistic. The Tennant Creek police in Barkly had a new focus on domestic violence. They were going out hard to stop domestic violence and were policing that aspect of crime in our community and our families and were making inroads. It was another story of Enough is Enough.
Those bad crime statistics the Chief Minister talked about in Tennant Creek related to that very pointed policing strategy. The Chief Minister said he wants to continue that strategy. He said he wants to be a personal ambassador against domestic violence and violence against Aboriginal women. That is what our police have also been doing. He is right, in Tennant Creek we have a long way to go.
His story about the AFL and the development officer was right off target. I give the Chief Minister some advice from a person who has lived in Barkly for over 34 years. What he was talking about does not just relate to Tennant Creek; he is talking about regional football competitions which attract many people from the regional and remote areas into town. People get stuck in town; they get caught without transport and money. They come to town and get into trouble. With that low-level recidivist behaviour around alcohol, antisocial behaviour, and traffic, they end up in gaol. What is a very good initiative of running sporting competitions turns into a very bad outcome, particularly when young Indigenous men end up in gaol.
Chief Minister, it is not about an AFL development officer who brings people to Tennant Creek to play football. They have been doing that for years - in your town as well - and it happens all over the Territory. It is about finding solutions to create a positive from a positive. I presented the petition in parliament which I am still waiting for an answer to. The member for Namatjira should be involved in this as it was a regional development focus. It was an election commitment I had from the previous government about developing sporting infrastructure that relates to sporting ovals and supporting bush camping grounds so the initiative can be turned into regional football competitions and home and away games. It is in the parliament and has not been responded to. The deadline is fast approaching and the people of Barkly - from memory there were 370-odd signatures from Borroloola, Elliott, Tennant Creek and Ali Curung - want to know the answer.
This is an initiative about spreading the sport around, washing money through those growth towns, and people at Ali Curung being able to celebrate their team playing four other teams over a normal BAFL weekend competition round, and having 400 spectators of their home crowd watching their team, instead of 20 or 30 who make it into Tennant to watch the team. It is about washing the economy with money, opportunities for fundraising so the school can sell steak sandwiches and the childcare centre in a remote growth town can sell soft drinks. It is about people getting up in the morning and being engaged.
Chief Minister, before you commit totally to your senior bureaucrat, your Chief Minister’s Office, the budget for travel, motor cars, hospitality, and whatever else you are planning to do, please come to Tennant Creek and consult because that budget line can deliver real results - what you Liberal mob call real action - in funding some very pragmatic initiatives that will deliver real outcomes.
One of those is developing this sporting infrastructure across the regions. It will solve the story, of which you have only been given half. If you want to come to Tennant Creek, I encourage you to talk to Anyinginyi Sport and Recreation’s fantastic young staff led by Adam Drake, who has pulled that Barkly competition together and implemented some incredible initiatives. Look at this infrastructure as well. That sort of money goes a long way to solving problems as opposed to getting half the story, the incorrect information, then planning a bureaucratic response with an Office of the Chief Minister and the associated budget. If you do not believe me, then come and talk to the people in Tennant Creek and the Barkly, and the BAFL committee.
In the previous government, a great deal of money went into developing sporting infrastructure at the Purkiss Reserve, and I am very proud of that. Part of that was lights. I researched some models around the country where local councils were using well-lit community sport and recreation areas at night time to attract kids and run development activities for them. They started to realise that antisocial behaviour, youth crime, and other associated problems around regional and remote towns like Alice Springs, particularly in the summer time, were starting to come under control because kids were actively engaged.
I put to the Police Commissioner my alternative strategy of policing, which represents Police Beats; it is about police presence. It was to get a patrol out of a Toyota Hilux and get them on to the Purkiss Reserve in Tennant Creek on a Friday night under lights to conduct some activities with the youth in Tennant Creek. My commitment is to pack volunteers and community members around that. If we could have coppers in singlets, shorts, and running shoes and not in a Hilux chasing kids around, then we are going to start something different.
I also had to deal with all the industry issues about occupational health and safety, pay rates and overtime and all those other issues. The Police Commissioner challenged me with, ‘Who will conduct the traditional patrols while my officers are trying this alternative strategy?’ We had to work through all these issues. However, Chief Minister, if you have money to throw around and you want to do something for Tennant Creek, then I challenge you to do something in an alternative strategy.
This motion talks about something tried across the country that is proven; it is about Police Beats. To make it work, you do not try to deny it and logistically debate it, you admit that a strong interface between a police station and a Police Beat, with community involvement, is the way to go. Other jurisdictions have proved that, and that is why it was taken on in the Northern Territory. As the member for Nightcliff said in her contribution, which was screamed at by the member for Greatorex and howled down, yes, we had that, but that has been cut; it has gone. It is an initiative that people want back.
I say again, Chief Minister, please, come and listen. Come and talk to the people on the ground if you do not believe me. Start to look at some alternatives of engaging youth and community in Tennant Creek. I encourage you to then talk to the women’s refuge in Tennant Creek. Talk to the stakeholders at BRADAAG, the alcohol and other drugs rehabilitation centre. Talk to the people at the sobering-up shelter. They will all give you ideas for budget investment.
When we hear a story of $5m of taxpayers’ money going into a report on the Palmerston hospital, when the previous minister for Health offered the government a report for nothing, I ask the Chief Minister, do you realise how much $5m would do in Tennant Creek, the community you are so concerned about all of a sudden? That is a lot of cash that delivers many results in a town like Tennant Creek and maybe into some of these areas, including protecting our women and children and delivering results in other aspects of the youth justice area. The population of people under the age of 25, with a population growth rate above the national average, should be the focus if you really want to do something for Tennant Creek.
The Chief Minister threw out an alternative for Tennant Creek which was the possibility of opening speed limits so Ford or Holden - they were the main ones - could come back and test their cars. Chief Minister, come back to Tennant Creek and get the full story. A Ford sedan covered in vinyl, towing a small trailer with a flashing light to prevent any photographs being taken of this new model being tested, with a crew of two that stays at the showground, is probably not worth opening speed limits on Territory roads around Tennant Creek for.
I appreciate your creativity and viewing an alternative in economic development, but, for God’s sake, I say again: come to Tennant Creek and get the real facts around what the testing regime of those motor cars actually delivered; how long they were in Tennant Creek, how much they spent, and what they did in their testing regimes. Then come and talk to people who will give you real alternatives for spending taxpayers’ money to deliver economic drivers, youth justice initiatives, and a proactive police presence.
One great initiative I will mention is the police community engagement officers. That is an excellent initiative and there has been a great example at Ali Curung of some excellent work. The second engagement officer is currently in the job; the first one was excellent, the second one is continuing that work. It is a great example of community policing where the police officer, just like the Police Beat, is connected with the community. They interface between the police station and the community directly. They are visible, approachable, and they communicate with the community which starts to improve those relationships.
Other initiatives which are very valuable are the police horses and police on motorbikes, but always the police on the beat. In an urban area, you can get that interface right and push, as a policy, police officers moving between the Police Beat and police stations. As the member for Katherine said, by not using the Police Beat to rest but as an active presence and to raise that profile, you are going to get results.
For what I call our major events in Tennant Creek, when we have many community people come to town, tourists arrive, and special events, then we get an increased police presence. We have alcohol restrictions and there are a number of initiatives that are regularly employed to ensure the community is safe and you get the maximum benefit out of that event. That is when we see the horses, the police on motorcycles, and the police on the beat. They are very valuable initiatives in community policing with a high police presence.
That is what this debate is all about. It is good to have positive contribution to this debate. It is always important to debate in this House about community safe strategies. Chief Minister, I have thrown out that challenge for you but, first of all, you better chase down that petition because I would not like to see any embarrassment on the government side if it is lost and no response turns up in the allotted time, which I think is 12 sitting days. The deadline for your government is coming up on 28 August, and the people of Barkly are still waiting to hear.
It is a great regional initiative; it comes from the people. It is a vision I shared with footballers, elders, and respected people. I took it to youth workers. I had sport and recreation officers canvass the idea. Everybody agrees with it, but it needs some cash. The funny thing about it was it was not a very big, outlandish election commitment; it was very targeted expenditure in those areas that would deliver an amazing outcome and, as you said, Chief Minister, create economic drivers.
To have people go to Elliott to play a round of the BAFL competition on a weekend is a positive thing. Guess what? They are going to have to deal with alcohol because Elliott has a pub. They might have to have a beer after the game, but it is about having a beer and going home. It is about celebrating the game and getting up the next morning and going to work. That is where we are headed, Chief Minister.
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Casuarina for bringing this forward and allowing me to contribute to a positive debate in this House and to add ideas.
Chief Minister, I challenge you. Bring your budget and your cheque book with you. Tennant Creek would love to see you. Wipe me out of the equation; I do not want any kudos out of this. Residents of Tennant Creek and the Barkly want to speak to you. You have a cheque book and you are talking about spending money in Tennant Creek. Come down and we will make sure you spend it wisely.
Mr STYLES (Infrastructure): Mr Deputy Speaker, before I get into some of the things I want to say, I will respond to some of the issues raised by members opposite.
First, I remind everyone that on coming to government the CLP had to face a massive debt of $5.5bn and a political and practical mess that we were left to clean up. There is nothing I would like to be able to do more, as a member of government, than suggest to my colleagues that we have Police Beats everywhere. Let us place an office in all places; let us have one everywhere.
However, the reality is we do not have the money to splash around like the previous government did. The money they splashed around, I might add, is borrowed money and they did not live within their budget. My mother taught me basic economics. Unfortunately, she was not able to go to university but she went to the university of life and she taught me. ‘You have to live within your budget, son. You can borrow for a house and perhaps you can borrow for a car, but you cannot borrow for all this other stuff. You have to live within your means otherwise you will go broke.’ That is basic advice most parents give their kids. I look around the room and everybody is nodding so I see that as an acknowledgment that they are the basics.
Sadly, the previous Labor government spent way too much borrowed money. This is money my children and grandchildren will have to repay because it will be years before we get out of this situation. In the meantime, the government on this side will work hard to create economic development so we can pay that debt off earlier than anticipated.
I will go to comments made by the member for Barkly. The member for Barkly said, ‘We want a police presence. We want people to get out there’, and to quote him, ‘get police mixing with people and get them out of cars’. That also applies to getting them out of offices. Sadly, if you have Police Beats that are not a necessity you have people sitting in offices. They are required to do paperwork and they have to be there so when people knock on the door they can answer questions.
The member for Nightcliff also said people want to mix with police officers. Sadly, if you look at the Police Beat she mentioned - Nightcliff police station - there is a bunch of people manning the office during daylight hours and into the evening.
It takes 13 police officers to put one extra patrol on the road 24 hours a day seven days a week. The very minimum is 10 officers. If you take into account recreation leave, training courses, mandatory training requirements, sick leave, long service leave, etcetera, you have to allow 13 police officers to put one extra patrol on the road.
The members for Barkly and Nightcliff said, ‘We want to see police officers out there. We want extra police officers.’ However, when you start opening extra Police Beats and take people out of their normal duties and put them into Police Beats, you are removing the ability of police officers and their supervisors to roster extra patrols on the road. That has an impact on response times and on seeing police driving around your neighbourhood.
There is no one participating in the debate at the moment …
Mr Tollner: Apart from us
Mr STYLES: Apart from us. We care, that is the thing ...
Mr Tollner: Is it our motion? Who moved the motion?
Mr STYLES: I will pick up on the interjection from the member for Fong Lim. No, it is not our motion, but we care. I wonder who it was? We care about this, which is why we are all keen to participate in this debate. For the benefit of those …
Mr Elferink: Keener than other members I could mention.
Mr STYLES: Absolutely.
However, I digress, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was talking about the number of members required to get patrols back on the road. As you are well aware, my electorate is in the northern suburbs so I am concerned about the northern suburbs. People turn up at my office who have been to other offices in the northern suburbs and are concerned about the lack of attention they receive. That may be true, it may not be. However, they turn up in my office expressing their concern about various things that happen. That is occurring less and less, and there is a reason for that.
I have issues in my electorate, and I also represent people from outside my electorate in the northern suburbs. I meet, on a regular basis, with the Superintendent and senior sergeants at Casuarina Police Station. We discuss what is happening, why it is happening, and what they can do to fix it.
However, I notice I am hearing fewer concerns. It is interesting that the member for Nightcliff said that, suddenly, everything has gone through the roof in her electorate. That is not what I am told when I inquire on behalf of people in Nightcliff who turn up in my office in Sanderson to discuss various issues. That may be because they do not like the member, or they like me more than they like others. There is probably a host of reasons why they turn up in my office.
However, I go to Casuarina Police Station for my regular meetings with the Superintendent and others and we discuss what is happening. I give them all sorts of information that comes my way. I also ask them, ‘How are you fixing this?’
It is very interesting because since the CLP government came in, there has been a slight change in focus. I will get to the alcohol-related issues shortly. However, there is a thing now called the Public Order Unit. My understanding is this unit consists of a sergeant and about six officers, who are given the job of targeting antisocial behaviour, alcohol-related crimes and, generally, just being around.
If the member for Nightcliff rings Casuarina Police Station about what is happening in Nightcliff and says there is an issue in this street, in that street, or people are gathering in that park, the people who were, at some stage, dedicated to Nightcliff who are now part of the Public Order Unit are now highly mobile. Where they get the hot spots the member for Casuarina spoke about in the introduction to this motion, they go in and smash that area. It is almost a ‘take no prisoners’ attitude where they go in and fix the antisocial behaviour. Then, if it moves to another park, as the reports come in from the members of the public or the MLAs who might receive that information in their offices and pass it to Casuarina Police Station, these people can be highly mobile and can fix the problem.
That brings us to the other side of the coin where members opposite seem to want people in the Nightcliff office 24 hours a day, seven days a week. That will take many officers off the road and not allow the police to target the hot spots. If somebody is sitting in Nightcliff station and there are only a couple of jobs a week, even they might feel they would be better off going somewhere where they can make a bigger contribution to the common good. That happens. Some of the anecdotal evidence I have received from members I have known in the police force for many years says exactly that.
The Northern Territory Police Association, for instance, supports the scrapping of Police Beats with the exception of Katherine. I believe Katherine has a particular situation. The police and fire complex has been built in East Katherine out of the 100-year flood zone so it will not be flooded. Therefore, it has gone from the city block they call the CBD in Katherine. There is a Police Beat there that saves people having to go right out of town to go to the police complex, which is not a bad idea.
However, I listened to the member for Nightcliff when she said police are saying it is all terrible, they want the Banned Drinker Register back, and they support all the Police Beats. I do not know where the member for Nightcliff is getting her information from, but my information is the Northern Territory Police Association supports the scrapping of all Police Beats with the exception of Katherine.
Let us look at where the resources are going. If you start taking out police to put into, say Casuarina for instance, there are a number of people off the Casuarina roster who could be putting extra patrols on the road, or extra people into the Public Order Unit. This Public Oder Unit has been very successful. In fact, on Friday, when the crime statistics come out, you will see a massive reduction in property crime, alcohol-related crime, unlawful entries and antisocial behaviour. If the figures and percentages I have been given anecdotally are the same as the crime statistics, then we will all be very impressed.
I encourage the member for Nightcliff, and those opposite who support the Police Beats and the 24-hour services they are proposing, to look at that and see what has happened since there has been a shift in the focus away from 24/7 police stations like Nightcliff, Parap and Karama. If you open those things as they want we will be taking more resources away from the streets and from the ability to hit the hot spots.
I can inform the member for Nightcliff that my understanding from my briefings is that the current Nightcliff station is being run on skeleton staff. They have had to divert many people from sitting in offices to getting them out where the members for Barkly and Nightcliff want them to be: interacting with people. They say they want this, and we are happy to concede that is right; we want them out mixing with the people and generally showing the flag in many areas where there appears to be a build-up in antisocial behaviour, crime, or what have you. To be able to fly the flag and have that instant response capacity to move from Nightcliff to Karama to Tiwi or wherever, is tactical advantage for police.
However, if we put them onto a 24/7 roster at Nightcliff, then we cannot shift them from Nightcliff to Karama, Tiwi, Northlakes, Wulagi, or wherever. There is a disadvantage to do what the current opposition would like us to do. When you talk to the experts - they say they have spoken to experts. I do not know. The Police Association, the Police Commissioner and those in the executive management of the Police, Fire and Emergency Services, I am sure, look at how best they can use their resources both operationally and in relation to the tactics they use to reduce crime and antisocial behaviour.
I repeat that the downward trend of figures is substantial. I have been given a rough idea of where that might be. I am looking forward to Friday when the crime stats come out. Next week we can discuss them again in this House and look at some of the benefits.
I pick up on what the member for Nightcliff was saying about the Banned Drinker Register and her claim that the police are very keen to have it back. I worked with many police officers who are still out there and they tell me that what we have now with mandatory rehabilitation is the best thing since sliced bread.
I will go back to the Banned Drinker Register and talk about what it set out to achieve. The Banned Drinker Register prevented people from buying takeaway alcohol. What it did not stop people from doing was going into a bar and getting charged up to a point where staff would say, ‘You have probably had enough’. They would turn them off and they would go outside. They said, ‘Sorry, you cannot have any more’, so they would choose to leave and go outside. The Banned Drinker Register may have stopped a few. It probably stopped all the good people and tourists from buying alcohol from time to time, but it did not stop these people from getting hold of alcohol.
I recall one of the women’s refuge centres in town said that when the Banned Drinker Register came in, alcohol-related domestic violence went up by 7%. They said they were hearing that the males were forcing the females to buy alcohol for them. Then, if they would not, they would simply beat them up. That was a problem.
It is not supply which is a problem. If the only course of action you take is to restrict supply, then you are not fixing the problem.
The member for Nightcliff spoke about secondary supply. I recall, in opposition, talking about secondary supply. I spoke to legal people, police prosecutors and police officers I know, some of who do not necessarily support my side of politics. I had discussions with them and it is interesting because they spoke about the inability to prosecute people for secondary supply unless the person confesses. The problem is proving you knew someone was on the Banned Drinker Register. I have seen it happen where someone would say, if they had a bung leg, ‘I cannot walk in there. Can you buy me that?’
If they asked me that, how did I check to see if they were on the Banned Drinker Register? This is the absurdity of the legislation the previous government introduced. How did I know? I could not ring anyone to ask if Mr Smith or Billy Blogs was on the Banned Drinker Register because, under privacy rules, no one would give me that information. We had a problem. Somebody said to a backpacker in Smith Street, ‘Mate, can you buy me a carton?’ ‘Yes, no problems.’ Irrespective of whether you thought that person may or may not have been on the Banned Drinker Register, you could not check. If that person did not tell you, was it an offence? It was not an offence for that person not to tell someone else they were on the Banned Drinker Register. So, they got a slab of beer or a bottle of rum. I have seen the results of that time and time again.
One of the shopkeepers in my electorate said they had a person come in - they had no idea of the real identity of the person – who brought a pocketful of driver’s licences. Apparently the person had licences in about 12 different names and just kept putting them through the scanner until one came up positive. I told that person, ‘The moment they pulled them out you should have refused to sell to them’. From that point on I believe they did, but that was very early days.
I was told about a sad thing in a liquor outlet by a person who was standing in a line waiting, and someone had alcohol to buy. They did not know if they were tourists or not, but they did not have a driver’s licence and were not aware of the restrictions. They said, ‘I am a respectable citizen. I am presenting myself.’ There was a line waiting to …
Mr CHANDLER: A point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker! Pursuant to Standing Order 77, I request an extension of time for the member to complete his remarks.
Motion agreed to.
Mr STYLES: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker and member for Brennan.
There was a big line and the guy serving simply leaned under the counter and took a box out that had about 250 driver’s licences in it, scanned one and said, ‘There you go, mate, see you later’.
It is an absurd situation for the opposition to say that when they were in government their program worked. The reason we scrapped the BDR, member for Nightcliff, is it simply did not work and did not stop people from drinking alcohol. For instance, one guy received 114 notices in a 12-month period. That was good, wasn’t it? That really worked.
Now, the message is getting around in the community because it is being spread that you will go in for mandatory rehabilitation. If people do not want to do the mandatory rehabilitation then they change their behaviour. If people are choosing to change their behaviour - the member for Nightcliff suggested people were defecating in people’s front yards, on verandas and things - then we have achieved part of our objective of getting people to change their drinking habits. If they are drinking more responsibly, that is good.
In relation to secondary supply, it was still a problem in our parks and gardens and in people’s gardens and front verandas. Business people had to come to work in the morning with high pressure cleaners and lots of Pine O Cleen to remove human faeces from their verandas, etcetera. That was a major problem.
They cannot do that when they are in mandatory rehabilitation. There is a huge reduction in the amount of antisocial behaviour and in people sitting around in parks getting plastered. It has changed what is happening. It has not been in for long at all, but there is a change of behaviour. It has just been 11 months, but when it has been going for nearly as long as the BDR did, you will see a marked difference. We are already seeing a marked difference in the behaviour of people. We see a reduction of drinking in our parks around Casuarina. In my electorate, two years ago I was receiving constant complaints about people drinking in parks, antisocial behaviour around kids’ playgrounds, and finding syringes, broken beer bottles, and a range of things in kids’ playgrounds in schools. That has reduced and I am pleased so far, as it has only been in since 1 July 2013.
I congratulate my colleague, the member for Araluen, for doing a fabulous job so far and reducing it so quickly. I am hoping that in another 11 months, we will see a major change in the attitude of people who think they can do whatever they like in our community.
The other thing the member for Nightcliff raised - and I cannot help but address this – was the 46 amendments in the committee stage of our bill, rushed through in the middle of the night without any consultation …
Mrs Lambley: Efficient.
Mr STYLES: We are efficient. It is interesting because my understanding is when you put something together and consult people and ask for their input, you listen to them. I believe 46 amendments demonstrate the breadth and depth of our consultation with the community and the groups who provide the services. We did consult them, we did listen, and they had some good ideas. It is not until you take draft bills out to discuss with people that they are able to think about it and think something might be an issue. Okay, we can fix that.
To sit on the other side, member for Nightcliff, and suggest that when your Labor government brought in legislation we should not amend it is absurd. In fact, it demonstrates that if that is your attitude, you are on the correct side of this House. If you are not going to listen to people who have good ideas and recommend changes in legislation, you are on the correct side of this House. It is arrogance if you think what you put out should not be amended or there are too many amendments.
It is great. I congratulate my colleagues who have been working on this, and the staff of the department for listening to people suggesting some good ideas and changes. Some of those changes might have come from a number of members on the other side. We take up the suggestions and amend the bill.
I am looking forward to the statistics being released on a monthly basis. They will, in an open and transparent way, demonstrate to the people of the Northern Territory we are an accountable government. I believe you will see a downwards trend in overall antisocial behaviour and alcohol-related crime.
I am informed, through my regular meetings and other anecdotal evidence I have received, that the number of alcohol-fueled domestic violence assaults is down. I suggest that is because some of these people who have been forced to change their drinking habits are not beating the living daylights out of women, forcing them to buy alcohol because their licence does not work. These are major issues that people face.
I do not even want to go onto Alice Springs and the bush situation; there are other bush members who wish to contribute. I will say the Public Order Unit is working extremely well in hitting hot spots, which deals with the issue the member for Casuarina raised earlier. Member for Casuarina, I encourage you to look at the crime stats on Friday when they come out. I believe you will be pleasantly surprised. I sincerely hope when you come back into this House you will choose not to bag the things that are working, but acknowledge they are making a difference.
This CLP government is about making a difference: making hard decisions in the very tight fiscal era we are in, where we simply do not have the money. We have a budget, and we cannot just throw buckets of money at the problem. We have to work smarter and use what little money we have in our budget to get the job done.
In so many instances in the four years I sat in opposition, I saw and heard the previous Labor government say on a regular basis - in fact, the member for Karama, when she was the Treasurer, constantly said, ‘But we spent more money than the CLP government’. It is not necessarily about money. Money helps, and if we had the money we would be able to do a range of things. When you look at so much of what has been discussed in this House today, we could make such a huge contribution to everything if we had buckets and buckets of money.
The sad thing is, we do not. The even sadder thing is we have to pay it back, and it will be a drain to the tune of about $1m a day trying to pay back the debt - that is just the interest - the previous government left us. It demonstrates that, in relation to Police Beats and many others issues, you simply cannot trust Labor to get it right.
What I have heard tonight from the members for Nightcliff and Barkly is they just do not understand the issues and problems. I encourage them to speak to the Police Commissioner, try to get on the patrols with the police. look at what they do, and have a discussion with those police officers about what they, at the coalface, believe is the best way to utilise what they have available to them. Talk to some of the supervisors, the people who are at the coalface, and find out the reality.
Mr Deputy Speaker, I am encouraged by what police officers say to me. Like all the service providers in the alcohol service industry, they really like it. They liked it on 9 December 2011 and they like it now, and they are very keen to support the government’s initiatives.
Ms LEE (Arnhem): Mr Deputy Speaker, I will also contribute to this debate to reflect on a few things the member for Barkly said about engaging with the people in the bush and talking to them. From my perspective, he has that totally wrong because the people have not asked for what the member for Barkly just spoke about.
If they were listening to this debate, they would be quite disappointed to know how disengaged the Labor Party is with the people in the bush. We were left in dire straits by the Labor government with a $5.5bn debt. Now, they expect us to do the same thing they have done and live off the credit card to continue the Police Beat operations. It is impossible. Anybody who knows how to budget their money would tell you that. Anybody with common sense would tell you that.
If you have been engaging in the bush - I invite the people to listen to this because this is important. From before we even got in after the election last year until now it is still one of the best topics. The member for Nhulunbuy would know, if she was here to speak up for the people, that they have spoken about this. I have been to a few electorates and I have always heard the same thing. They do not want Police Beats in the shopping centres. They do not contribute. In the communities they want the call centres to be local. But, do you know what? We cannot put them back because we are in so much debt it is not funny.
That is what the people want. The communities have been so under-resourced it is not funny any more. Look at Roper police station for example. In the 11 years of Labor, you put two demountables there and did not even put a sewerage or power system through their house. People who stayed there had to go to the next block to use the toilet. That is devastating. These are the people who serve our communities. These are the police officers - only two officers in a community of 1500 people. The community is asking for more support. There is nothing there. We do not even have the money to do it.
Why? Because we are in the situation you left us in. We had no idea we were going to come into this. I did not. I had big dreams, hopes, and aspirations for the people in the bush because I wanted the best for my people. I cannot represent their best interests because we are in the situation we were left in, and I have to go and tell them that.
The member for Barkly should know that. He says in this parliament he is talking to the people of the Barkly region. I have been to Tennant Creek too, heaps of times. I have been to Elliott. He was talking about Tennant Creek going to Elliott for football. If he took any notice a couple of months ago when reading the paper, he would have realised there is no football oval there. That community was left for dead too. There have been no improvements to the majority of the communities for 20 years. SIHIP only focused on growth towns. There was nothing.
The community wanted local call centres back and more police officers on the ground; that is the biggest push for them. If we had more money, yes, we would support the Police Beats in the shopping centres because they support the frail old people who walk past and get hassled. In the past, before we even put this new legislation through about mandatory rehabilitation, these old people - even me, and everybody knows who I am. When I walk out this door, I am equal to everybody else. I am not a politician; I am Larisa Lee in the streets, like everybody else. I do not make myself different to anybody else, and that is the truth.
In here, I represent the views of the people, and that is not only people in my electorate, but in other bush electorates. I am representing the electorates of the members for Nhulunbuy and Barkly too. It is an obligation we were given when elected into parliament. That is our job, to speak the truth.
Let us go back to before the legislation came in. Yes, we were getting hassled in the shopping centres, even when the Police Beats were there. That was a failure with the BDR. Countrymen were walking around pushing trolleys you can put a dollar coin in. Come to Katherine, member for Casuarina, you will see what I mean. You put a dollar coin in the trolley, you walk around trying to do your shopping with your kids and your partner, and you are constantly getting hassled for spare change. But you would not know that …
Mr Vatskalis: Yes, I do, I go to Katherine.
Ms LEE: No, you do not. You did not change it. You did not think about how you could strategically make it work better, did you? You just thought, no, let us just keep the BDR in place; that will help the people. What? They are going to hassle us to buy the grog; they are not hassling you ...
Mr Vatskalis: You can always say no.
Ms LEE: They were not hassling you to buy the grog. Do not tell me that; do not mislead this parliament.
These are the people we have to bury every day. Do not lie to my people; they have been lied to enough. We walk around in the shopping centres and I was being hassled constantly for spare change ...
A member: All of us.
Ms LEE: All of us in the bush electorates. We know the truth. We see it. We face it every time we go back from Darwin.
Since the mandatory legislation has come in, the coppers are really good. They were going out, handing out these little pamphlets saying, ‘If you do the wrong thing, you get picked up three times in three months, you are going straight into mandatory rehabilitation’. Do you know what? Countrymen listened to that; they paid attention.
Do you know what the only backflip to that is now? You have more youth on the street drinking. That is everywhere in places such as Katherine, Darwin, Palmerston, Tennant Creek and even in Elliott. Borroloola is the same. In Gove it is the same. So now we have to look at the youth.
You did not come up with that idea because you did not care about how the BDR was going to work. You did not say either good or bad about it. You did not even try to make improvements. Because we are backbenchers, we are bringing this information back and saying, ‘Okay, now we need to focus on this’, because that is our job at the end of the day.
Let us go back to how the member for Barkly talked about strategically working engagement and stuff for communities. For one, I went to a community school. In all the years I went to that school, from when I was four until I was 12, there was not one health education teacher, not even in the neighbouring community. No one is there teaching them health. There is not a health teacher, there is nothing. There is a health teacher in Darwin, I know that much, but not in the bush. Where is the priority with that?
If you want to talk about engaging with the kids, where are the friendly games? Where are the sports about engagement? That does not happen any more. What were you focused on? But no, it is all of us to blame. How can we be the ones to blame when we did not put the Northern Territory in such a bad state? We were not the ones racking up the credit card debt and making promises we cannot keep.
We are trying to keep up with all that. We have a legacy too we would like to fulfil. We have people who want to see a difference. Everybody wants a better life. The majority of the people who live in the communities are really good; they are not all drunks. Obviously you do not know that. They are not all drunks. They go into town. It is the people who are in town who are faced with this chronic alcohol problem. They are our people, yes. They need help. We are not going to sit around and watch them drink.
One of my brothers-in-law is in hospital dying. He stopped talking yesterday. You think that is funny? That is not funny. It is because of alcohol. For the last 10 years he has been in Katherine and he drank his life to the bottom of the bottle. What has he got out of it? He is now dying in hospital.
That is the saddest thing we have to face every day of our lives. It is the most emotional thing we can tell this parliament, but that is the truth. That is the reason I am standing here: to tell you that. That is what we have to face as Indigenous politicians in this House. It is hurtful. It is not only us; it is when we go home to the community.
This bloke is pretty well known through Ngukurr, Numbulwar, all the way up to Ramingining and Lake Evella. He is a Rembarrnga Ritharrtnug man, a very strong cultural man. He once was, but alcohol got the best of him. The BDR did not do him any favours. There were hardly any resources on the ground. We did not give him a chance to find that hope in himself. He drank himself to the last bit. Now we are here, under-resourced, left with the legacy of the former Labor government, trying to fix that problem.
The attitude is changing. It has changed since we came up with this new legislation. It has done wonders. I go to the shopping centre now - I went back last weekend because I have been away for the whole time out bush. So much for the member for Nhulunbuy saying people do not know me in my electorate. Even your mob in your electorate has my stickers on their fridge and wear my T-shirts. That is how much they know me. But that is just for you to know. I put that on the record.
If I go back now, I do not get the hassles any more. There are two or three, but it is not out of hand as it used to be. You do not get hassled to walk to the pub to buy them another carton of something at the takeaway. You do not get that any more. You cannot force people to do things; they have to change within. You have to tell them, ‘All right, we are giving you a chance. You get in there, you make a change.’
It is not about feeling sorry all the time about people. These people have serious drinking problems. I was in health for 10 years. I had to bury my father and my oldest brother. My best friend was run over by a car because she was drunk. That is the reality I have to face every day. I do not cry about it any more. Why? Because it is the truth. What killed my people was drinking.
Your policies failed them and made it even worse because of the shires. Because you only focused on the larger communities and did not care about the smaller ones, everybody migrated into the regional centres: Tennant Creek, Alice Springs, Katherine, Palmerston and Darwin. Look how many live around the beach here. Do you think that is funny? Do you know what they say about them back home? They want them back, but the first thing they need to do is sort out their alcohol problems. It is like being a smoker, you have withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol is the same. When they go back they lash out at their people, their families. They take it out on their loved ones. We all know when you love somebody that is the first person you take it out on, the person you love the most. It is human nature, everybody know that; it is common sense.
This government is trying. Thanks to the member for Araluen, our Attorney-General, and the rest of the team for working together to try to find the best solution for our people, not just the people in the bush, but the people in the towns and cities.
I have been part of Correctional Services and worked with prisoners. While I was in Gove during Garma, I saw one of the camp sites where the prisoners are working. They think it is the best thing that ever happened to them. We are giving them back some responsibility and hope.
You never thought about that. All you cared about was locking them up, shutting the door, and putting more people in prison. That was Labor’s idea of Indigenous people: throwing them in gaol and locking them up. We give them a purpose to live, to serve, to pay back their community, to earn respect and be forgiven.
It is like being a Christian, then a sinner, then going back to being a Christian again. It is very similar. We are religious people too, very religious. About 90% of every community are very religious people. That is reality. They love the opportunity. I spoke to three blokes from three different areas, and they said, ‘Yes, this is the best thing that ever happened. Now we can support our families back home. Now we get to walk around and say hello to people like you, get to meet you firsthand. We did not realise you were such a down-to-earth person.’ I said, ‘I am no different to anybody. I have relatives in gaol.’ I am sure that is no surprise to anyone. All of us do, especially the bush members. That is just life.
All I am hearing here is yap, yap, yap, nagging about this and that. Why not try to look for the best possible outcome for the people of the Northern Territory?
The member for Barkly got it totally wrong. Obviously, you are not engaged with anybody in the bush. If you think they want more money and this and that, no, they do not. They want local call centres back; that is what they want. You have to be the stupidest person to walk in here and say, ‘I hope you are listening because this is what the people in the bush want’. No, they do not. I am sorry, the line still stands. People do not change their words overnight.
There are many problems in Tennant Creek. I have been there a dozen times. I know half of the community of Tennant Creek. I have stayed there, I have attended funerals, ceremonies, you name it. It is the same with Elliott. I have been all the way down to Alice Springs.
The people want a government to represent their best interests and listen to them. All I ever saw from the former Labor government was it came up with initiatives and policies, threw them out there and expected the people to run with them. You were not listening to the people on the ground, to what they really want. The smallest thing counts and goes a long way. That is where you failed.
You failed us again to think we would rack up another credit card to keep the Police Beats going.
Madam Speaker I would love to, seriously; we would all love to. We do not have the money to do it, member for Casuarina, because you left us in that situation.
Mr VATSKALIS (Casuarina): Madam Speaker, it is a very interesting discussion and we can see the difference between the urban people and the people in remote communities. I support the Police Beats because I have seen the problems in my electorate. There were immense problems every day. People were afraid to go to the shopping centres.
It was an initiative of our government with the support of the then Police Commissioner and police officers who accepted that the presence of police in the shopping centre was a way to deter the antisocial behaviour taking place. And it worked. It worked very well in Casuarina and I am very pleased to hear it worked very well in Katherine because I am well aware what the problems in Katherine were.
The member for Katherine said, ‘No, we do not support the Police Beats. Close all of them but leave Katherine alone.’ Yes, it might be a good idea for your electorate, but the reality is the problems you have in Katherine were in Karama, Nightcliff, and Casuarina. The situation in Casuarina has improved enormously. I do not accept the argument that the Police Beats in shopping centres take away the resources from the main police stations. That can be arranged. You can utilise them as training grounds. You can put police who are studying in the training centre, and police who have recently graduated. This is the way to be trained, to cut their teeth, then they can be promoted to other areas. We do that with other professions such as doctors, nurses, and teachers. You cannot argue that you cannot put a teacher in a small school because it takes teachers from the big schools and affects the roster. If there is a will there is a way.
As for the bush members, I understand the problems they face with alcohol. I know the problems with alcohol, and I will mention some when I respond to the Minister for Health’s statement on alcohol. We all think Territorians drink too much. Some Territorians drink to extremes which threatens their lives and their families’ lives, and something has to be done about it. The difference between us is we believe this is the way to go; the government believes that is the best way to go. We will debate which way is the best.
Madam Speaker, I thank everyone for their contribution.
Motion negatived.
MOTION
Condemnation of Prime Minister by the Legislative Assembly
Mr KURRUPUWU (Arafura): Madam Speaker, I move that the Assembly condemn Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and his federal Labor government for:
misleading the people of Tiwi Islands and breaking their promise not to introduce a carbon tax
The Tiwi are trying very hard to break out of the cycle of welfare dependence which has stunted opportunities and growth for my people. Our future, like the future of other Aboriginal communities in the great electorate of Arafura and the Northern Territory is in economic enterprise, training, and employment in real jobs. We see economic development with cultural integrity to be the way of the future for our people.
The previous government in the Northern Territory acted as a road block to many of our economic ideas to broaden our strength and capacity. This is why the Tiwi have put such effort into building a major forestry resource on our land. From this timber plantation, owned 100% by Tiwi, it is expected that around 300 000 tonne of chips per annum will be available for export to Asia.
In addition, the Tiwi Islands are rich in minerals such as rutile and zircon. There is a large market for these minerals in Asia as well. The port will provide us with the means to export valuable products to Asia. These markets are the most rapidly growing economies in the world. The port will also be a major source of real jobs and real income for Tiwi people. It is expected that the port will lead to up to 350 new job opportunities for Tiwi people in marine and shipping.
Port Melville is also a shining symbol of what can be achieved through a shared vision and partnerships and a real appreciation of abilities of our people. As Tony Abbott has pointed out, Kevin Rudd is in fact keeping the carbon tax though it is going from a fixed to a floating price. According to Mr Abbot, it is likely to reach a price of $30 a tonne by 2020. While he has declared he would terminate the carbon tax one year earlier and introduce an emission trading scheme, the move has been blasted by Tony Abbott as a one-year fiddle that would not stop the carbon tax price rising across time, regardless of the name of the scheme.
This will have a major impact on new enterprise development on the Tiwi Islands. It can be expected to have a service negative effect on our attempt to build real enterprise and real jobs for Tiwi people, as well as jobs for all Territorians. The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry has also demanded the carbon price be scrapped while the Business Council of Australia lashed out at the ‘flawed design’ of the ETS:
- Lowering the carbon price is an urgent priority but the fact remains, as a result of government policy, businesses are still likely to be paying one of the highest carbon prices in the world for up to another year and their competiveness is suffering every day as a result.
said BCA Chief Executive, Jennifer Westcott.
A recent audit by the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry revealed that 82% of businesses report the carbon tax has reduced profits – a year since the scheme was introduced. While higher energy bills are the biggest expense, the carbon tax has also added to rising packaging, transport, and other expenses.
One food processing firm said the carbon tax added nearly $5m to operating expenses, including $500 000 in packaging and $240 000 in freight and storage fees.
Murray Goulburn, Australia’s largest dairy firm, say the carbon tax has added $14m to its annual expenses for the year to 30 June.
High energy bills remain the biggest cost burden for manufacturing, with nearly 50% of those firms surveyed reporting electricity bills have jumped 15% or more.
This tax is likely to have a major impact on industries important to the Tiwi and to all Territorian people. This includes the sectors of mining, oil and gas, transport, and building and construction. If the carbon tax was to apply to heavy transport industry from 1 July 2014, it would amount to $100m, rising to $750m by 2020.
As the Territory is heavily dependent on road transport, such a huge cost increase would be bound to be passed on to households and individual consumers. Recent CPI figures confirmed the devastating impact of Labor’s carbon tax on household budgets. Under Labor, the price of essentials such as electricity, gas, and health services continue to go up and up.
The costs of the carbon tax continue to flow through to many goods and services we use in the Territory every day, from power to food and groceries. To survive, businesses will have to pass the increased costs of carbon tax on to Territorians. Experts now admit that carbon tax increases, overall, the cost of living in countries that adopt it.
Managing Director of Rochford Capital, Thomas Averill, said:
- Energy prices have made a fairly big contribution to the inflation numbers …
and that:
- … carbon tax was also having a visible impact on inflation figures.
This puts Tiwi Islanders and all Territorians at risk, as well as further increasing the cost of living for Territory families and individuals.
Madam Speaker, this is why we need to abolish the carbon tax so everyone’s costs can be reduced and employment and wages can increase for Tiwi and all Territorians. This is the policy of the Coalition and the policy that will clearly best benefit Tiwi and Territory businesses and families.
Mr McCARTHY (Barkly): Madam Speaker, it is a privilege to debate the member for Arafura who has brought this motion to the House. I start by saying I cannot agree with it. You know why? It is no news to the member for Arafura that I support Kevin Rudd and do not trust Tony Abbott. That is the nature of the political debate.
However, let us debate the price on carbon because it is a privilege to debate an elder and a representative from the Tiwi Islands. That is what being a politician and an MLA is all about.
I want to take this debate, member for Arafura, to the carbon economy. I did not grow up on the Tiwi Islands and I have visited there only once. I know a few Tiwi people. I grew up in Sydney. On the south coast of New South Wales is a place called Port Kembla. It has a major steelworks. As a kid, I studied it at school, we went on excursions there, and I watched that steel works grow and prosper. I then started to understand the environmental impacts.
When I started to study the Industrial Revolution and put together this type of development on a global scale, I then started to enter into the research around climate change. I started to understand there is a bigger picture about this issue and places like Port Kembla had to be balanced out. Scientists knew more, we learned more about our planet, we understood more about the constraints around our environment and ecology and biodiversity, and we then discovered we have to start planning and implementing initiatives to address the natural disasters, the change in our climate, the influences on our planet as the population grows and our society industrialises, and urban areas increase and population increases accordingly.
This led me to the next era, so to speak, in my life where I started to look at the carbon economy. Member for Arafura, I did not take it as a simple ‘ban the carbon tax’, I took it on as, ‘How can I use this in the area where I live and with the people I work with?’ I have conversations with Indigenous people all the time now about the carbon economy.
I get back to Kevin Rudd, because that is the essence of your motion. If he is fortunate enough to be elected, Kevin Rudd will move very quickly into a carbon emissions trading scheme. There are many examples of policy development. That is what good policy is all about. It is like your mandatory alcohol rehabilitation policy; it will have to be massaged, developed, reviewed and, out of the 44 amendments we went through late that night - it was getting close to 1.15 am when the amendment went through that the Banned Drinker Register, and the technology to administer it, is still in the legislation. It was preserved in the legislation. I am sure that will resurface under the Country Liberals.
Let us get back to Kevin Rudd, but, importantly, to a carbon economy. I used to live in a block 12 500 km, probably close to the size of the Tiwi Islands, which is the Waanyi/Garawa Aboriginal Land Trust. It is pristine country, beautiful Mitchell grass plains to the south, sandstone escarpments, the China wall-like Arnhem Land in the northwest, incredible gorges and the Nicholson River in the northeast. It was a pristine block. I started three outstation schools there. I lived in that area for four years and love to go back to visit.
The outstations really struggled: so remote, so many constraints, so many challenges. I will never forget, Christopher Daylight used to say, ‘Gerry, we have to get out of here in the Wet because how many pigs and catfish can you eat?’ I tended to agree with Christopher so we would all get out in the Wet and go back in the Dry. We had an alternative school timetable, two solar powered schools and, at the other one, we camped under a tree. There were many amazing things going on.
However, for one reason or another, those outstations did not become self-sustaining and became transient places. They are beautiful places. I grew a couple of my kids up there in the bush. Now I am still dealing with the same constituents and telling the story I am telling here tonight, member for Arafura, in relation to the debate about the carbon economy. What I say to the people of the Waanyi/Garawa land trust at Nicholson River is we have to be creative, make money, get jobs, and we can get this through a carbon economy. We can have big business pay into a special fund which we can access and develop a range of programs such as fire abatement programs. We can develop programs on country. This is a whole new way of doing business without government handouts.
I say to people, ‘Let us get away from government handouts. Let us research this carbon economy and see the opportunities coming our way.’ Member for Arafura, you can do the same thing on the Tiwi Islands because this is a creative way forward. This is what the member for Namatjira talked about: the dripping tap of government welfare. Let us turn the tap on, as the member for Namatjira said, but let us use big business to do it. Let us use the big polluters like the steelworks at Port Kembla to pay their fair share. We are going to say to them, ‘We are not going to go down that traditional road of taxation, we are going down a new road where you will have to invest in the carbon economy. There are some great people in the Northern Territory, the Waanyi/Garawa people, who want you to invest in their economy, which will create jobs that benefit those people, their children, and their grandchildren, staying on country, having good jobs that look after country and, at the same time, generate an economy.’
That is what you have been talking about in this motion; it is about economic impacts. Let us talk about the economic impacts of making the carbon economy work for us. There are many opportunities and good examples. Member for Arafura, in your electorate there is the West Arnhem Land Fire Abatement Project. They are already accepting significant cash from big business, and have converted that money into ranger and fire abatement programs.
Not only have they converted that money into jobs, into caring for country, they have converted it into something the whole world wants to learn about: carbon data research. The whole world needs to know how to manage carbon in the atmosphere, the soil and in our water.
In the West Arnhem fire abatement program and the ranger programs associated with that in the electorate of Arafura, they can teach you very valuable lessons and show you directly the benefits and the connections to the carbon economy. They are world leaders, in an Australian example, in this new global enterprise. The carbon data research is where scientists want to understand the ecology around carbon and carbon emissions.
There was another wonderful example the member for Port Darwin might be interested in. I hope he follows up. That is to do with Mataranka Station and Charles Darwin University. I was trying to get some traction into a possible arrangement where prisoners could go to Mataranka Station, set up a good camp and clean the joint up. When I say clean the joint up, I mean feral animals, weed control, improve fencing and basically establish a research area of traditional country by getting rid of all those western influences that have cluttered and contaminated pristine Aboriginal country. You only do that with a very intensive labour force. It is like stick picking, you really need to do it the hard way to get it done.
What the university is interested in, and the members for Arafura and Port Darwin might be interested in, is there is significant international money, people who want to invest in the university to have a research patch, a designated scientific research study area, and they are willing to pay big dollars. This is not only trying to get the prisoners involved, it is also trying to get carbon data research done and being inclusive of Aboriginal people because, as you know, the prison population is 82% Aboriginal. It is also about getting those people experienced in carbon data research so they can go home and spread that word. They could be Waanyi/Garawa people and could come back to the Nicholson and talk directly about their experience working in a globally significant project to set up a research area, or they could translate that into Caring for Country, ranger, and fire abatement programs which are available in the electorate of Arafura.
The member for Arafura has just gone down this political road. In the lead-up to an election I can understand where that is coming from, but do not underestimate how important this debate is that you brought to this House. I can see on the Tiwis there are many opportunities to tap into this carbon economy.
When I go back to my analogy of the cake, you should be at that caucus table and banging on those Cabinet minister’s doors talking about resourcing the Tiwi Islands and the electorate of Arafura. You will have some new creative ideas when you start to look at the positive side of the debate around carbon emissions and the carbon economy. The Country Liberal Party government might be interested in some new creative approaches to creating employment in regional and remote areas by tapping into this. That would be a great partnership that could benefit the whole of the Territory, and as we say, all Territorians, not just a select few.
Member for Arafura, I want to drive the message home that there are great opportunities which you should explore. In the political side of this debate, ask your mate Tony Abbott about his plans. From where I sit, and what I look at, he is ducking under cover. He is not really telling us the full story, whereas Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has put it out there. He has reviewed a major policy, he is making changes, and is turning that into a carbon emissions trading scheme with all the opportunities that will go with it.
Member for Arafura, it is good to see you are supporting the Liberals in the upcoming election. However, I am very nervous and I put it out there in this debate because you brought it on. I do not trust Tony Abbott, Nigel Scullion, or Mal Brough. I do not trust them because they do not have a big ‘L’ on their back, they have a big ‘I’ on their back, and that stands for the intervention.
I do not believe their policy about closing the gap and Indigenous community development is anywhere near the Stronger Futures package that has been outlined, costed, and locked in. The Stronger Futures package is what development is all about; it is a plan to go forward. It is costed and there are significant investments locked in right across the Northern Territory. It has a 10-year plan, whereas the other guys are saying, ‘Mal Brough is coming back, Nigel has all these ideas, and Tony’s going to go walkabout.’ They are really carping on about all this stuff, but I do not trust them or believe in them. I have watched them and studied them.
In the motion you brought forward there were more promises around their terminology of carbon tax. There was no talk about all the opportunities in the new carbon economy, the new global initiative we are all walking towards.
It is not just us, China is involved. My wife travels to China and she has this dialogue with Chinese people. We have friends in Tennant Creek who are from China, and we have this dialogue regularly. It is amazing that the super power of China is also talking about the carbon economy, the global significance of working together in this economy and the new opportunities it will present.
They have massive challenges that are hard to believe, but they are entering this space with due diligence and are working towards addressing their own issues ecologically and climatically, that relate socially and culturally. It is the way the world is moving. It is the glass half empty or the glass half full question.
I look at it as an opportunity, and I do not trust Tony Abbott and his rhetoric, his slogans, and his promises. I think it is full of holes and, therefore, I do not support this motion. As I said, it is good to debate it.
The member for Arafura spoke in this motion about the disadvantages he sees. You talked about transport. Let us talk about transport and go back to a very local issue on transport. What has happened with the Tiwi ferry? I remember trying hard to ensure the Tiwi ferry ran. I used the Tiwi ferry earlier this year on a trip to the Tiwi Islands, but I have not heard anything about it since.
It did not come out in estimates because the Chief Minister reckoned we all squibbed it and went home. That is not true; that is being, once again, careless with the truth. There was no way I wanted to have an estimates process with the Darwin Port Corporation officials at 5 am; that was ridiculous. But we have been down that road and debated that, and the government has its position and the opposition has its position. However, the reality is I did not get to talk about all these important transport issues, and the Tiwi ferry was one of them.
The barge landings was another. Member for Arafura, you have worked hard. You got a slice of cake because your barge landing is still on the pad. As I travelled through the member for Arnhem’s electorate extensively over the last two weeks, there were barge landings that had dropped off the pad. When I was on Groote Eylandt with the Labor Caucus at Umbakumba, walking back and forth on the barge landing talking to locals about it and the infrastructure and nature of that transport, they were able to show me improvements they needed and wanted. It was local knowledge transferring to a local member. I was unfortunate, in my position, to say, ‘I do not have access to the cheque book, but I can make the parliament and the government aware of this’.
If we want to talk about transport, you can focus in this motion on the disadvantages you perceive about this one liner that you want to use politically. I applaud your strategy for raising the bar and being political in the lead-up to the election. However, spin that story back to, ‘Hey, what has my mob got? What am I getting out of this? What are my colleagues getting out of this? More importantly, as an elder in the Northern Territory Aboriginal community, what are my countrymen getting out of this?’ As I said, that barge landing story was very unfortunate.
I have also lost an airstrip in the Barkly, if you want to try to get me a thicker slice of cake please. The airstrip at Canteen Creek we fought so hard for was wiped off the pad.
Transport is a very important area for the bush, and you have raised it. You must ask questions, and one of the first questions is what is happening to that Tiwi ferry? What are the plans for it? What is the budget appropriation in forward years for that?
I enjoyed your speech the other day about the port. The port is an opportunity for real economic driver on the Tiwis. Again, I encourage you to look at the carbon economy and how resourcing can cross over into supporting important infrastructure development. The port, as you have educated me, is very important in the opportunities it presents in creating projects and employment on the Tiwis in sand mining, rutile, ilmenite and zircon, and the forestry projects. These are very real economic drivers.
However, member for Arafura, you have to ask the Minister for Infrastructure why the Tiwi Shire did not feature in the $30m allocated for local government roads. We asked this question and I will continue to ask this question. On checking my notes, the shires that missed out were the Tiwi Shire and the West Arnhem Shire. The member for Arnhem will be interested in that. The West Arnhem Shire missed out and I think the East Arnhem Shire also missed out ...
Ms Walker: No, it was the West Arnhem Shire.
Mr McCARTHY: I also asked about Litchfield and Coomalie and those little areas. However, $30m of forward estimates was appropriated by the Liberals and those shires missed out. Yours is in the middle of that economic debate because you know, and I know – I looked at your port - you need roads infrastructure supporting maritime infrastructure, supported by rail infrastructure in regard to the mainland and the port of Darwin. It all interconnects. It is so important. Ask that question. That is a real economic answer you need.
In regard to this motion, you are looking at the disadvantages. I also encourage you to look at the advantages, which are your share of that $30m allocated to local government roads. As an opposition, we do not knock that, we support that. However, we are disappointed to see you miss out. We are disappointed to see the Tiwi miss out. You have to knock on the door of the Minister for Infrastructure and ask him, ‘What does it mean?’ He might have to cut his cake up a bit thinner, but he has to ensure he delivers for all those shires.
We thought $30m could be allocated across all the shires, but it was not. You missed out, so you really need to ask that question. Do not take the answer about the projected debt and the ya ya that 12 months into government they are still banging on about. It is about making things work now, rolling up the sleeves, and getting on with the job.
I have to take it because I am on this side, member for Arafura, but you do not. You have a key to the fifth floor. Bang on that fellow’s door and ask him to explain it to you properly, and tell him to drop off that little one liner. Then, maybe have a discussion about the carbon economy. What was that fellow from Barkly talking about? I am sure the Tiwi would be interested, just like the Waanyi/Garawa are interested, and many Australians are interested. People in our country want to move their thinking to the future and the opportunities of creating a carbon economy.
When we have natural disasters like the Queensland floods - which require governments to invest an enormous amount of money to repair infrastructure - bushfires, droughts and - if we have another Category 5 cyclone come through the middle of this town, governments will need to have ready access to funding to save people’s lives, repair infrastructure and get society functioning again. That is another important story about the carbon economy. As we move into the future, one only has to watch the news and global events to see the challenges governments are faced with when we have massive natural disasters. These large-scale natural disasters are about sharing the load.
What is the CLP’s catchcry about heavy lifting? BHP and the Port Kembla steelworks should do their share of the heavy lifting; there is no doubt about it. I believe they are in the frame of mind to do it. However, if they have Tony Abbott who wants to let them off the hook, or wants to play politics, then we are in a bad place ...
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Barkly, it is now 9 pm. Do you wish to reserve your comments for a later time?
Mr McCARTHY: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Debate adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr ELFERINK (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I move that the Assembly do now adjourn.
Mr GUNNER (Fannie Bay): Madam Speaker, Grandad’s grandad on his mum’s side, Charles Joseph Foster, was born in England, moved to the US and gained employment as a locomotive driver in Mexico. This is where he met and married Lily, a woman of French blood well mixed with Mexican. They lived beneath the tallest mountain in Mexico, known to the Aztecs as Citlalteptl, the star mountain, but more commonly, and boringly, as Pico De Orizaba.
When Lily passed, my Great-Great-Grandad left Mexico and moved to Australia with his three children. Here he settled in Port Augusta and worked with the Commonwealth Railways. He re-married and raised another family. His love of his new country must have been great because he enlisted in the Australian Imperial Forces as a Sergeant and embarked on the HMAT Ascanius on 11 May.
My Great-Granddad was born Ernest John Gunner of a Welsh father and an English mother. His Welsh voice did not make it to our generation. My Great-Grandmother was Marguerite Foster. She and Ern married on 20 April 1927 in Adelaide, and Granddad was born 31 July 1930 with a brother, David, following three years later:
- My mother’s marriage to Ern Gunner did not survive exposure to parenthood, and they parted while David was still in napkins.
Marguerite, Peter and David spent the 1930s travelling and looking for work. They subsisted on food vouchers - stale bread and meat that was turning - and nights on the ground were just a challenge to overcome. Often Marguerite’s work was fruit picking or stripping hops. Granddad got his first job putting together damper and salt beef lunches for the earnings of one shilling for four weeks, which was promptly borrowed and never repaid.
David was walking now, so he spent most of his day in a sugar bag, holes cut out for legs, and suspended from a meat hook. From here, Marguerite’s work became such that Granddad and David stayed with friends on a farm called Tally Ho, to a convent, to a public school, to Aunty this or Aunty that.
Aunty Rose taught Granddad how to swear, though at the time he did not realise quite the value of the colour he was learning. Nana Green was, of course, not his Nana but considered much better than his actual Nana who only sent the odd Christmas card from England.
There was plenty of time for adventures and dramas and I have skipped many already, but his mechanical experiments, in company with brother, David, speak to Granddad’s later life’s work:
- I have always enjoyed an easy familiarity with anything involving gears, wheels and cogs, and David became the willing pilot of the various machines that I built, all with dubious handling characteristics and assembled from tea chest and lumber held together by unclenched nails.
- He not only held both the speed record for a fully enclosed billy cart launched from the summit of a pedestrian underpass, but was the youngest claimant being only three at the time.
The stables at Nana Green’s had above them a loft for the storage of feed, this was accessed by internal stairs and a rope and pulley over the front loading platform was intended for the lifting of bags of feed to the loft.
- I had devised a quicker way to access the loft, this comprised of a bag of chaff on the loft platform tied to one end of the hoist rope, and a laundry basket on the ground tied to the other end.
- The bag of chaff when pushed off would head towards the ground with the basket heading towards the platform; all that was required was a passenger for the test run.
David was commencing to get a bit leery about playing the part of test pilot and had to be physically enticed into the basket.
- I returned to my command post on the loft platform, checked that the pilot was still seated, and pushed the bag of chaff off. The result was a huge success - he arrived at the platform - but then spoilt it all by departing just as swiftly. This highlighted the need for a seat belt.
Over the ensuing years on those rare occasions when our paths crossed, I found that he had either an awesome lack of memory or a truly Christian attitude, in that he still held both affection and some esteem for me.
David passed in the early 1960s.
My Grandfather’s love for a story was hereditary. Marguerite wrote two stories that were published by the Smiths Weekly. After receiving a small cheque she wrote on and off for the rest of her life without ever being published again. It is my great fortune that she had a passion for writing though, as she joined a writer’s club, and it was at one of these that she met a traveller who sold the Territory as a place of opportunity for willing workers. Seeds sown, the three of them were soon standing in the pitch black outside the train station in Alice.
Marguerite was soon employed as a cook by the Underdowns. A year later, the three of them moved to Tennant where she worked on the Joker Mine, 12 miles but several hours from Tennant:
- What little school I received was handed out by my mother between cooking, washing and sleeping. No truancy inspectors haunted my days and I was well on my way to becoming illiterate.
An attempt at education commenced at Tennant Creek School - a few of us slaved at our letters ... I later in life married the prettiest girl, Ellen Perry.
- I was sent to board at the Anglican Hostel for bush kids in Alice Springs ... I was overwhelmed from the beginning by a sudden leap into prosperity that saw me not only wearing shoes but socks as well. Within a short time I was labelled as one with no promise … I was expelled.
- My mother made a sudden return to the Catholic roots that had, up to now, remained well hidden back in old Mexico and sought the help of the nuns. They introduced me to the secrets of being an altar boy and, with a view to reclaiming my soul, plied me with catechism and cane.
- Japan finally entered the Second World War in 1941, and in the following year my mother discovering that the Japanese recognisance (sic) aircraft had actually flown as far south as Alice Springs, removed her two boys to St John’s boarding college at Hunters Hill in Sydney
The Japanese, having been informed of our arrival, sent some midget submarines after us. My mother brought us back to Adelaide to the Sacred Heart College in Somerton.
Following an assessment of my intellectual powers, I was placed in grade five. My teacher, Brother Richard, informed my mother that it was a miracle I had got that far. They would consider it an even bigger miracle if I went any further. Brother Richard proved himself an oracle.
Without waiting for the end of year results, I commenced my journey back by walking out past the olive trees at the front gate and, without a backward glance, set off on my return to Alice Springs.
- The idyllic existence did not last long, as an endeavour to raise production of distilled water from the petrol fired boiler; I made alterations to the air pressure and petrol flow valves that brought about an explosion large enough to introduce open planning to the workshops.
The removal of the wall between the battery room and Tex Leichlaitner’s machine shop made me a witness to the shocked expressions on the face of the machinists, and the arrival of authority, and I again returned to the ranks of unemployed.
- My parting from my mother’s influence at a very early age was an act of self-preservation. For while I do not for a minute doubt that she loved me, her ideas of what was in my best interest differed greatly from my own.
Mr VOWLES (Johnston): Madam Speaker, I wish tonight to talk about a recent announcement by the missing minister, the member for Greatorex, and a four-year deal for the NRL.
The agreement with the Parramatta Eels is valued at $4m over four years, and includes the trial matches and an NRL match. While I welcome the Parramatta Eels to the Territory, I am very concerned about how much this is costing the Territory taxpayer.
Recently, the acting CEO of Parramatta said on radio that the deal did not include airfares and accommodation. Under my estimates in my previous experience in NRL negotiations, in one of my previous employments, I believe this is going to cost taxpayers and extra $1m. So I call on the Minister for Sport and Major Events, the member for Greatorex, to give us a more detail.
Not only is the $4m over four years concerning, what I want more information about is how much is it costing for the match day management. Normally there is a lot of cost involved in the match day preparation - the cost of the referees, the match day officials, transport and accommodation for these officials as well.
To put it in context, the last deal we had with the NRL for the trial match, the former Northern Territory government paid $285 000. That is right, $285 000 for an NRL match in the Northern Territory, in Darwin, hugely popular, hugely successful.
Now we have a recent announcement that it is $500 000 per game. What I want the minister to do is come out and give me and Territorians more information on the extra costs. What are the exact costs? What is the final cost? What is being covered by the taxpayer? What is being covered by the NRL? And the exact amount taxpayers are going to pay for this match.
As I said, I welcome Parramatta but, as an opposition spokesperson on sport, I am concerned about how much this is costing Territory taxpayers.
What could $4m do? Something comes to my mind straightaway - it could have paid for the Arafura Games. The Arafura Games were cancelled. This is an event that brings in over $10.5m into the economy. $10.5m, and they cancelled. It is a wonderful event, it gets everyone involved: athletes, managers, coaches, support staff, Territorians coming to watch, businesses and, obviously, tourism benefits greatly. Every business in the Northern Territory, and specifically Darwin, benefits from the Arafura Games. This deal of $4m could easily have paid for the Arafura Games.
I have heard the minister for Sport, the member for Greatorex, I have heard the Chief Minister, the member for Braitling, especially the Chief Minister, many times talk about the games, that they are not cancelled, but are deferred. I call on the Chief Minister, I call on the Minister for Sport and Recreation, the minister for Major Events, the member for Greatorex, to come out and tell us when these games are going to happen. How much is it going to cost? Where will it be? How much work is being done on so-called bringing back the Arafura Games? At the moment that is all we are hearing, but I want to hear more detail about what has been done, and Territorians want to know when the games are going to be held. What are the new games? What is this new and improved focus on our Asian partners deal going to contain? And what is it going to look like?
When I talk about $500 000 per match for a trial game in Alice Springs, and a NRL match in Darwin, it takes me back to the $285 000 for our last NRL Games. Now we are paying $500 000.
Then we had $300 000 which went to a golf club that the Chief Minister and the member for Greatorex are members of. It is the same amount, $300 000, for the deal with the Brumbies who finished second in the Super 15’s Finals competition this year. That is how much that deal cost, and it was scrapped, tearing the heart out of rugby union fans in the Northern Territory, and all sports fans. To see top class sport of any nature in the Northern Territory is hard to come by, and you have to pay for that. $300 000 for the Brumbies to play up here against another Super 15 in a trial match every year was a great deal.
But then to say that is no bang for your buck and, in your so-called tough economic times with massive debt, you then give $300 000 to your golf club whilst scrapping the same amount to get rid of a Super 15 Rugby Trial Match every year does not add up. We know it stinks and it will continue to stink because it is wrong.
I go back to $500 000 per match, $285 000 for the last deal. I call on the minister to come out and tell me and Territorians are there any extra costs. What are they? What is the exact total cost? I know there has got to be more to the deal, and I want to know the exact amount on behalf of all Territorians.
Ms WALKER (Nhulunbuy): Madam Speaker, I was really pleased last month to bump into a former long-time Nhulunbuy resident, John Zachravisias. Zac as he is better known because it is much shorter than Zachravisias, was a maths teacher at Nhulunbuy High School when I started teaching there in 1990, and I believe he had been there at least a few years before me, and he certainly stayed on long after I had left and served as the Deputy Principal at the school until he retired in 2012. He would have guided an entire generation of Nhulunbuy kids along the path to adulthood during his years at the school. No doubt many of those former students are now sending their own kids to Nhulunbuy High School.
Zac and his wife, Liz, may have left Nhulunbuy to enjoy retirement in Cairns, but he certainly has not cut ties with the Northern Territory. He was back in town in order to lead a NORFORCE Patrol to the Islands off Arnhem Land. And, yes, he managed to find time for a round of golf with my husband, when I was able to catch up with him and hear the latest news from him and Liz.
John is a sergeant with NORFORCE and I understand the soldiers call him Sergeant Zac. Before the patrol left Nhulunbuy on 14 July, Zac was presented with the Operational Service Medal Border Patrol in recognition of his service on Operation Resolute. This is the Australian Defence Force’s contribution to the protection of Australia’s borders and offshore maritime interests.
Well done, Zac, and well deserved, because I know, and our community knows, how many years of dedicated service you have put into NORFORCE over the years. He has been patrolling with NORFORCE for 25 years.
In the local paper which reported this Award, Zac said, and I quote:
- It has taught me the bush skills and navigational skills which are now a part of my recreational life.
I know that to be true. Zac has been part of a local group of keen bushwalkers over the years who has headed off on some incredible walks around Arnhem Land, and other parts of the Northern Territory. I cannot say too much about it other than it is akin to secret men’s business, but he is a mad keen bushwalker and part of the building of those bushwalking skills and love of being out in the bush has come from the time he spent with NORFORCE.
Madam Speaker, I was also very pleased to meet Major Tim Robinson, the new officer commanding the NORFORCE Arnhem Squadron based in Nhulunbuy, and his wife, Katherine. Tim kindly made an appointment to come and see me and introduce himself just prior to Anzac Day. I always love it when people drop by and let me know they have arrived in town. I always enjoy having a chat with people, finding out where they are from and who they are.
It is a small world; both Tim and his wife have connections to Gove through their families. For them it is a little like coming home for both of them. Tim and Katherine are enjoying their time in Nhulunbuy and the region, and the new work and new challenges Tim has with NORFORCE.
I would like to add that last month NORFORCE was responsible for some priceless publicity for the Northern Territory, all around the world. One of Australia’s finest photographers, David Gray, from Reuters, spent a week with NORFOCRE on patrol to the English Company Islands which sit just off the coast to the northwest of Nhulunbuy.
Mr Gray joined a patrol which travelled through the islands in two zodiacs setting up observation posts and generally looking for signs of any illegal or any unusual activity on the islands. Mr Gray took a series of stunning photographs of young Territorian soldiers: Lance Corporal Vinnie Rami from Numbulwar, Lance Corporal Danny Daniels from Ngukurr, Private Jonah Thinglere from Ngukurr, and Drew Perry from Katherine. These photographs have since been published in some of the world’s biggest newspapers, including the New York Times and the Chicago Tribune in the US, The Guardian and The Telegraph in the UK, and Le Temps and Paris Match magazines in France.
The accompanying story has been translated into French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Hungarian, Russian, Latvian, Indonesian and Hebrew. It is probably in Chinese and Japanese too, but they do not come up when I Google NORFORCE. The story and photos were run on ABC and in the Sydney Morning Herald as well as by newspapers in India, Malta, Malaysia, Brunei and Brazil. That is pretty incredible recognition of NORFORCE and our home-grown army recruits. Well done to the Australian Army and well done to NORFORCE because you cannot buy that type of publicity.
It is now 32 years since Northwest Mobile Force was formed to establish a military presence in the remote regions of Northern Australia. Its 600 soldiers do a fantastic job patrolling across the Northern Territory and the Kimberley. The unit employs around 250 men and women from remote communities, making it one of the largest employers of Indigenous workers in the region. What a fantastic outcome that is for our people who live along the coastline in remote communities and possess some of the inherent skills of not only knowing their country, how to live on their country, and also looking out for signs of things not right and out of place. This is why, back in 1930s, one of the first group of troops was put together under Donald Thomson - the reconnaissance group that worked off the coast of Yirrkala and did incredible work.
It employs around 250 men and women from remote communities, one of the largest employers of Indigenous workers in the region. It also includes 540 reservists, of whom around half are Indigenous men and women from our remote communities who bring into the Australian Army the traditional knowledge and networks they possess.
I would like to congratulate the NORFORCE Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel Paul O’Donnell, and all his soldiers; and to Vinnie, Danny, Jonah, Drew, all the patrolmen and all the squadrons, well done to all of you! You are fantastic role models to people in your community, to your family and friends, and to your children. You are doing a tremendous job sharing your knowledge and skills and protecting our country.
Mr WOOD (Nelson): Madam Speaker, I would like to say a few words about part of the trip I did recently from Mataranka toWollogorang Station which was mainly to look at a number of mines which I will probably report on later. To visit those mines you have to travel along the Roper Highway, down the Nathan River Road, along the Carpentaria Highway, then – I am trying to think of the proper name of the Savannah Way to the Queensland border. It has a name, but it escapes me at the moment.
I thought I would let people know about a wonderful place I visited. It is not in Limmen National Park - of course, I would like to talk about the national park as well - it is just outside. It is called Lorella Springs Wilderness Camping and Caravan Park. It was originally part of what was called Nathan River Station many years ago. That station was divided up by the Lands department in 1969, and one half of it was called Rosie Creek. The owners cannot tell me how, but it ended up with the name Lorella Springs Station.
It is run by a gentleman, Rhett Walker, and his family. Rhett spent some of his time in my electorate; he lived in Howard River Park. It probably was not until I booked into the caravan park that I realised I knew him, and he knew me.
What is special about this place is it is off the beaten track, and he expressed to me when I was down there that the conditions of the roads at the moment are appalling and he believes that is part of the reason why numbers are down this year. If you can make the effort and your car is sturdy enough, please go down there if you want to get away from it all. It is not 5-star accommodation, although I stayed in a cabin which, for that part of the world, probably was 5-star; it was very comfortable and had satellite TV. It is for people who want to get out and camp there.
What is special about it is the owners have opened up the area with four-wheel drive tracks and you can visit so many different sites. I was only there for one full day and I only went to one place called Nanna’s Retreat which is a beautiful waterhole, safe from crocodiles. You have to travel a reasonable distance to get there and walk up into the escarpment, but the range of plants, the scenery, the rock formations, the caves and the beautiful water when you get there, and isolated, made it a wonderful place to visit. That was only one site I had time to go to. I went with a couple of locals so we both did not get lost and had a very enjoyable day.
You can travel out to the coast if you want to go fishing. You can visit a range of waterholes, and there is one that has temperatures of around 50C; it is truly a hot spring. If you are staying at the main camp there is hot springs there. One of the interesting things is when you have a shower in the cabins you only have one tap because the water comes from the springs, and that is all you need.
As I said, the family runs the facility. They have a safari tent there if you want to go safari style, or you bring your own camping equipment and camp on the grass. You can get great meals. You have to be there at 6 pm otherwise you miss out, but if you want a good steak, chips and vegies, you will certainly get it there. Also, there is a bar and a happy hour.
It is one of those places where you can spend weeks if you wanted to because there is so much to look at. It is not open the whole year round, obviously, because when the Wet Season comes most of the tracks would be impassable. But, if you wanted to go somewhere to get away from it all, if you enjoy nature - I took lots of photographs of plants which I have sent off to a herbarium. I have a good friend there, Glenn Wightman, who actually named them all in about five minutes. I thought I had some plants that were special.
I did come across a plant called Grevillea pungens. I thought it was a Grevillea. It is a shrub about two metres high but it is extremely prickly; it has a very prickly, sharp leaf and you certainly would not want to run through it in a hurry; you would have quite a few scratches on you. But I found out it was quite common in that part of the Territory, up into Northeast Arnhem Land.
If you are a bird watcher, if you love looking at native plants, or if you just like to go for a swim and get away from it all, then I recommend people go to Lorella Springs. I certainly enjoyed my one day there, and I certainly hope to go back and spend a bit more time there.
I should not forget another fishing camp there. The Limmen Bight Fishing Camp. It is not the flashiest place in the world. It is on the beautiful Limmen River; I did not realise how beautiful that river is until I went down there. It is obviously part of an old cattle station; there are some old yards there.
I met Steve and Dave Barnett. I believe Dave works with the local sea rangers down there. He was doing some maintenance work on his boat trailer, and there were people camped there as well. They also had a problem where there was very little maintenance on the road and they felt that that was affecting the business in their area.
I highlight the fact that we sometimes take visitors to places which are fairly well known – Litchfield National Park and Kakadu - but there are some really wonderful places in the Northern Territory that do not get a mention that often. I must admit I like it because they are not flash. I feel like the resort has not been put on as a show. It is there for you to enjoy as a genuine piece of the Northern Territory. The advantage of both of these places is you can go and visit the Limmen National Park.
I did not get enough time to do that because my object was to visit a series of mines on the way down, but I did stop at the Southern Lost City, the one that is more accessible near the Nathan River Ranger Station. I went out there early in the morning and it was just beautiful. Again, I need to spend some more time there. There is a walking trail there of a couple of kilometres. I just did not have the time to do it justice.
There is another portion of the Lost City which Rhett Walker, the owner of Lorella Springs, says he knew when he was a kid because he had been brought up in that area. I am not saying he found it, because I am sure Aboriginal people knew about it long before we did, but it is now part of the national park. You have to get a key to go there from the ranger. Unfortunately, the ranger when I spoke to them at Tomato Island, the day I wanted to visit there, was his day off, so I could not get a key. If you want a four-wheel drive trip, they tell me it takes all day to about 34 km; that is what I call four-wheel drive!
Next time I am down, I intend to go and have a look at the Western Lost City. These are the areas we need to open up for regional development so people can get opportunities locally, to gain employment in these areas. It will not happen unless we actually improve some of the infrastructure. People are not going to go up the Nathan River Road if it is full of bull dust and corrugations. Much of that is to do with the mining business that is happening at the moment. But, if we are to develop those areas, then we have to put money into things like improving the roads.
Caravaners talk to one another and they might come all the way from Queensland up to Borroloola and the word will get around - what is the road like to Roper Bar? They will say it is terrible, so they will go straight through to the Stuart Highway.
I thought I would give a brief summary of what I think is a really great part of the Northern Territory, and recommend it to people. Yes, you might need a four-wheel drive, but I would say go out there, take the risk. You will love it, and you will certainly be telling other people around Australia to go and visit there as well.
Mr McCARTHY (Barkly): Madam Speaker, the Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education conferring academic awards on Barkly students successfully completing studies in education, children’s services, and business underpins community development in the Northern Territory.
I was honoured to attend the 2013 Barkly Graduation Ceremony, witnessing Batchelor Institute students receiving academic awards, some of whom I enrolled in preschool, others I worked alongside in remote schools.
One graduating teacher in education attended school at Robinson River in a tent on the riverbank, completed secondary school boarding in Alice Springs, works as an assistant teacher, undergoes tertiary study, and raises a family. This exceptional story of commitment to family and community was depicted many times by remote students from the Barkly completing nationally accredited academic awards, presenting as great role models, facilitating education for others.
Reflecting on 30 years in Barkly education, I now advise graduating students and teachers that, in my opinion, times have never been tougher with significant distractions working against school and community educational outcomes. The days of the silver bullets, where caravans were considered appropriate education infrastructure for Aborigines, were challenging. However, the CLP government’s policy of not providing secondary schools in the bush had a generational impact on scores of students not continuing their education.
The tough times I refer to also relate to the loss of traditional elders reinforcing cultural protocols and discipline, and major influences of alcohol, drugs, media and pop culture on families and young people presenting compelling antisocial elements working against school attendance, engagement and participation.
Poor school attendance linked to family and community dysfunction is often attributed to failing government policies not providing adequate resources. However, facilitating positive social and culture change relies on people engaging with the system. I view Batchelor Institute graduating students as the important catalyst for change, adding a critical mass of empowered individuals and educators, swinging the pendulum back towards social and cultural order, education, employment and community development.
When I commenced teaching in Barkly, I viewed my role as multifaceted yet, essentially, working myself into unemployment as Aboriginal people progressed through the education system taking jobs in the school community, and I am proud to witness this process on track.
Governments play an integral role in supporting educational outcomes, providing appropriate school infrastructure, teachers, programs and support services. However, family responsibility for supporting and engaging their children remains the foundation stone for a good education.
Government policy guides the process for allocating taxpayer funds. I view investment in education as critical for addressing post-colonial challenges and delivering real community development, hence the need for the CLP to sign the Australian government better schools funding deal.
I congratulate Batchelor Institute and the Department of Education and Children’s Services’ staff supporting higher education students in Barkly, yet condemn the CLP government education budget cuts that scrapped the four Department of Education and Children’s Services’ positions in Tennant Creek, directly supporting Batchelor Institute tertiary students.
Madam Speaker, it was a group of just over 30 students that graduated at the Battery Hill Mining Centre in Tennant Creek, and there were a number of names on the program that were not able to attend because of their life in remote areas; they simply were not able to get into town. It was quite an emotional experience for me looking out over a crowd and assessing the different connections I had with those students, many of whom were graduating in education studies, some in children’s services, and a couple in business.
It reminded me of the days when we were sending students from the Barkly to boarding school in Alice Springs, and some in Darwin. A large percentage was quite courageous in leaving home and family and travelling to Alice Springs and enrolling at Yirara College and continuing their education away from home. Enormous challenges went with that, but some of these students graduating at Batchelor Institute Graduation in 2013 had embarked on that journey and really never left it because they were still on the education pathway.
It was interesting in those days because we were in schools on cattle stations; we were in the silver bullet area and all in caravans. It was a totally different era in education, but the staff at Yirara would tell us in their reporting a commonality - there was something different about the Barkly students. Their literacy and numeracy levels were close to age grade level, their behaviour was great, and they were lively and dynamic kids who were a joy to work with. They got on well in the boarding environment, and I am talking about the 1980s and early 1990s, and it was a common occurrence to hear from Yirara College staff that the Barkly kids were special; they were really good kids and were right on track.
Here I was looking out over a crowd and connecting with some I had enrolled in preschool; others who were with me when we started schools on the river banks at Epenarra and Robertson River and the Nicholson River; some were staff members at the Borroloola Community Education Centre when I went there as the principal. They were all interconnected, and here they were continuing on that journey as great role models.
The real disappointment was the politics behind the scenes and the reality at the end of the ceremony where photos were taken - I was honoured to be asked to be in the photos - being a member in opposition there is limited kudos in these circumstances; very different from being a minister in government, but a number of students demanded I be in the photo shoot so, of course, I maximised that opportunity.
To hear the story that four positions of these brilliant teachers in a program supporting tertiary education students, and the results were in front of us with over 30 at the ceremony and more names on the program, and this is over a couple of years - those four teachers have gone. Their jobs were scrapped. The Minister for Education needs to understand the ramification of education cuts.
At the Cabinet end, when the politician demands an efficiency dividend and the public sector is challenged in how it delivers those savings for government, it is important the minister look at each and every outcome of the decisions. Unfortunately, what has happened in the Barkly and, I presume, elsewhere, but I will concentrate on the Barkly, these four positions have gone. You have this incredible outcome, an outcome I share in one way or another for more than half of my life, now being taken away. Something that has been really good and demonstrated results has been scrapped. Batchelor will continue to do its business, but without an initiative which has shown great outcomes.
It links back to the stories Yirara College staff told, ‘There is something special about these Barkly kids’. There is something special about Barkly tertiary education students as well, but we know from looking at the results in the 2013 Graduation in the Barkly region that these four positions - those wonderful teachers who took upon career enhancement of these Aboriginal people - worked. They are displaced officers, they have been repositioned back into the system, but the sad part of the story is that initiative is now wanting. It has been left wanting because it was simply a bad decision, something the minister can pick up on, something the minister needs to research but, essentially, it ends with the debate. We can put off a bridge, we can push out a road into forward estimates, but we do not cut education. It is the exact opposite; we bend over backwards to ensure we invest in Northern Territory education.
Motion agreed to; Assembly adjourned.
Last updated: 04 Aug 2016