Mr MALEY - 2002-02-27
In your time as minister for Correctional Services, how many discussions did you have with the commissioner or other departmental staff about the transfer of particular groups of prisoners and, in each case, did these discussions take place before the transfers were made?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I welcome the question from the member for Goyder. It appears that they want to continue to pursue this to the end. I cannot, for the life of me, understand what they do not understand about the word N-O. What don’t they understand? It means no.
Mr Burke: What? You had no discussions?
Mr AH KIT: I had discussions. People who are listening to this broadcast are certainly interested and are keen to find out what happened. We have the opposition wanting to prosecute this case, so maybe they should sit quietly and listen a little and they may learn, because the former Chief Minister had one of his ministers, Minister Manzie, agree to and abide by a procedure that was put in place by the current CEO. Now, that procedure …
Mr Burke: We know the procedure. Tell us about it.
Mr AH KIT: Well, if you stop interjecting and be quiet you might learn something because you obviously did not know when you were the Chief Minister what your ministers were up to and what procedures they had in place.
It has been made very clear that there was no interference by the CEO. There were, as the minister for Justice read out, those trips that took place. There was no political interference whatsoever. There were discussions held. At that point when the commissioner contacted me I was at Roper River in my electorate, and I told him to discuss with my ministerial staff what the transfers were. Now, in the process, 48 hours notice in discussing as a matter of courtesy with the minister. This government would expect that with any CEO.
I do not know how they operated under your regime, but I certainly can tell you that when I became the minister with four portfolios I had been confronted very quickly with this silly notion that was put in place that CEOs would ring up and make appointments. With my 25-30 years of professional administration, I said that is not to happen; you will turn up in my office, we will set a time aside each Monday morning and we will lock in 45 minutes so we can discuss the issues of the week.
That is a regime that I implemented and I did have discussions about the transfers because I approved of the process that was put in place. The process was there. It was instigated by Minister Manzie and I agreed to that process. So, the discussions that we had, it was always at the end of the day a decision to be taken by the CEO. It is quite clear in what happened on 9 November. He makes that very clear. I could go through that but I do not think it seems to be sinking in with you people across the road there.
Commissioner Moore said:
This is a predominantly uniform service that relies on the hierarchy of command and associated accountabilities at each
level in custodial operations.
I repeat, never did I give a direction - as in the member for Goyder’s press release in accusing me of politically interfering; calling for my resignation; suggesting that Aboriginal prisoners were not to; I gave a direction; and I will quote him:
Mr Maley said the Corrections staff had complained to him about an incident where Mr Ah Kit had bypassed their superiors
and given them a direct order which they believe was based on racial grounds.
Now, that is a big call. You are a lawyer, and I thought you would understand that you have to present evidence, substantiate your claims. You have brought nothing to this parliament. You have brought nothing to this debate. You have put nothing in your press release. I thought you had a fair bit of brains and I had respect for you as a lawyer who had good legal training and was a good, astute businessman. That is all gone down the chute because, obviously, even when he went on radio yesterday afternoon, what did the member for Goyder say? He said – and I will go to it here – when Fred McCue talked to him, he said: ‘Oh, absolutely …
Mr MALEY: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I am asking the minister to answer the question. First of all to confirm that these discussions took place and when did they take place prior to each transfer? It is a simple question, the parameters are clear. I am just after a simple answer to this question.
Madam SPEAKER: I think you are well aware of the fact that ministers have broad-ranging options to answer questions. You will just have to sit there and listen.
Mr AH KIT: Madam Speaker, I know why he wants to interject and stop me, because what I am about to explain to Territorians is that the member for Goyder said to Fred McCue, when Fred asked:
How did you rate yesterday? Was it a bit of an experience, a learning experience for you, Peter Maley?
Mr Maley’s response was:
Oh, absolutely. The entire process is a learning experience. I am like a massive sponge absorbing all this new material.
Well, I believe him to be a hollow log. Fred McCue asked the next question:
What are you saying in relation to this, because the material you promoted yesterday was obviously - you should have
checked it out more by the sound of it. You obviously had something there, but you didn’t quite check it out, did you?
Mr Maley said:
No, not at all.
Oh, my goodness! The last one that I will finish off with, the member for Goyder said in that interview that this was only parliament, he did not check it out properly, it was not court, or something to that effect. That is an insult and disgrace to this parliament.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: We won’t continue until you all settle down, both sides.
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I welcome the question from the member for Goyder. It appears that they want to continue to pursue this to the end. I cannot, for the life of me, understand what they do not understand about the word N-O. What don’t they understand? It means no.
Mr Burke: What? You had no discussions?
Mr AH KIT: I had discussions. People who are listening to this broadcast are certainly interested and are keen to find out what happened. We have the opposition wanting to prosecute this case, so maybe they should sit quietly and listen a little and they may learn, because the former Chief Minister had one of his ministers, Minister Manzie, agree to and abide by a procedure that was put in place by the current CEO. Now, that procedure …
Mr Burke: We know the procedure. Tell us about it.
Mr AH KIT: Well, if you stop interjecting and be quiet you might learn something because you obviously did not know when you were the Chief Minister what your ministers were up to and what procedures they had in place.
It has been made very clear that there was no interference by the CEO. There were, as the minister for Justice read out, those trips that took place. There was no political interference whatsoever. There were discussions held. At that point when the commissioner contacted me I was at Roper River in my electorate, and I told him to discuss with my ministerial staff what the transfers were. Now, in the process, 48 hours notice in discussing as a matter of courtesy with the minister. This government would expect that with any CEO.
I do not know how they operated under your regime, but I certainly can tell you that when I became the minister with four portfolios I had been confronted very quickly with this silly notion that was put in place that CEOs would ring up and make appointments. With my 25-30 years of professional administration, I said that is not to happen; you will turn up in my office, we will set a time aside each Monday morning and we will lock in 45 minutes so we can discuss the issues of the week.
That is a regime that I implemented and I did have discussions about the transfers because I approved of the process that was put in place. The process was there. It was instigated by Minister Manzie and I agreed to that process. So, the discussions that we had, it was always at the end of the day a decision to be taken by the CEO. It is quite clear in what happened on 9 November. He makes that very clear. I could go through that but I do not think it seems to be sinking in with you people across the road there.
Commissioner Moore said:
This is a predominantly uniform service that relies on the hierarchy of command and associated accountabilities at each
level in custodial operations.
I repeat, never did I give a direction - as in the member for Goyder’s press release in accusing me of politically interfering; calling for my resignation; suggesting that Aboriginal prisoners were not to; I gave a direction; and I will quote him:
Mr Maley said the Corrections staff had complained to him about an incident where Mr Ah Kit had bypassed their superiors
and given them a direct order which they believe was based on racial grounds.
Now, that is a big call. You are a lawyer, and I thought you would understand that you have to present evidence, substantiate your claims. You have brought nothing to this parliament. You have brought nothing to this debate. You have put nothing in your press release. I thought you had a fair bit of brains and I had respect for you as a lawyer who had good legal training and was a good, astute businessman. That is all gone down the chute because, obviously, even when he went on radio yesterday afternoon, what did the member for Goyder say? He said – and I will go to it here – when Fred McCue talked to him, he said: ‘Oh, absolutely …
Mr MALEY: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I am asking the minister to answer the question. First of all to confirm that these discussions took place and when did they take place prior to each transfer? It is a simple question, the parameters are clear. I am just after a simple answer to this question.
Madam SPEAKER: I think you are well aware of the fact that ministers have broad-ranging options to answer questions. You will just have to sit there and listen.
Mr AH KIT: Madam Speaker, I know why he wants to interject and stop me, because what I am about to explain to Territorians is that the member for Goyder said to Fred McCue, when Fred asked:
How did you rate yesterday? Was it a bit of an experience, a learning experience for you, Peter Maley?
Mr Maley’s response was:
Oh, absolutely. The entire process is a learning experience. I am like a massive sponge absorbing all this new material.
Well, I believe him to be a hollow log. Fred McCue asked the next question:
What are you saying in relation to this, because the material you promoted yesterday was obviously - you should have
checked it out more by the sound of it. You obviously had something there, but you didn’t quite check it out, did you?
Mr Maley said:
No, not at all.
Oh, my goodness! The last one that I will finish off with, the member for Goyder said in that interview that this was only parliament, he did not check it out properly, it was not court, or something to that effect. That is an insult and disgrace to this parliament.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: We won’t continue until you all settle down, both sides.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016