Mrs BRAHAM - 1995-11-23
The Territory's federal member, Hon Warren Snowdon, has promised to create 16 000 new jobs in the Territory in the next 12 months. What does the Northern Territory government think of the member's statement?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, I must admit that I was somewhat amazed by the federal member for the Northern Territory's announcement, through DEET's area consultative committee, that the aim is to create 16 000 additional jobs in the Northern Territory in the next 12 months.
Mr Ede: That is more than you have done in 10 years.
Mr HATTON: That is not true.
I want to examine the logic behind this particular number. I think he is a proponent of the political school of thought that, if you tell a big enough lie, people will believe it. It is worth noting that 79 000 people are employed currently in the Northern Territory. To create an extra 16 000 jobs in 12 months would require 20% growth in the Northern Territory work force in one year. Apparently, there are only 6200 unemployed people in the Northern Territory. Thus, he says he will create 16 000 additional jobs for 6200 people. Clearly, the figures are a nonsense. The reason they are a nonsense is because of the habit of the federal government, through DEET, Hon Simon Crean and Hon Warren Snowdon, of promoting continually the idea that, when the federal government pays for somebody to attend a training course, a job has been created. I am sure that is what he was talking about. The federal government is planning to spend something like - how many millions of dollars is it?
Mr Ede: It means that 16 000 Territorians will go into training programs, does it?
Mr HATTON: If the member for ...
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Mr Ede: You are not going to knock it, are you?
Mr Bailey: You do not want it.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr HATTON: Gee, they are rude, aren't they?
Members interjecting.
Mr HATTON: The process of making 16 000 Territorians better job-skilled and more job ready is a laudable goal.
Mr Bailey: It is something you lot have not done much of in recent years.
Mr HATTON: That is interesting. We do not have $53m a year to spend on training programs.
Mr Ede: He is a good federal member if he has that.
Mr HATTON: Yes, particularly in an election year.
Members interjecting.
Mr HATTON: The fact is that the federal government is promoting the idea that a job is created every time a person is placed in a training course. It manipulates the statistics to the point where it is able almost to make it look as though that is true. It is interesting to examine some of the statistics. If, according to the federal government, only 6000 people are unemployed in the Territory how will it create and fill 16 000 extra jobs? Does it intend to import 10 000 people from interstate, particularly considering that the Northern Territory has currently the second- or third-lowest unemployment rate in Australia and the highest work force participation rate in Australia ...
Members interjecting.
Mr HATTON: ... between 15 and 65, a larger proportion of Territorians are in the work force than are in the work force elsewhere in Australia.
Mr Bailey: So you do not want this?
Mr HATTON: That is great. We are saying that the figures are good.
It is interesting that DEET told the Northern Territory Employment and Training Authority that a sufficient and realistic target to provide off-the-job training for trainees in 1996 was 700.
Mr Ede: He will kick it up to 16 000.
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Mr HATTON: He says that he will create 16 000 jobs. Do you think it sounds a bit suss? I think it sounds a bit suss.
Mr Ede: Another $53m sounds pretty good.
Mr HATTON: That is, if it actually comes here. You wonder how they fiddle those figures too. It is interesting. We need to look at the ...
Mr Bailey: You had enough money for this place.
Mr HATTON: Just listen.
We need to look at some of these unemployment figures, because they make interesting reading. The Labor federal government has said that it has created 653 000 jobs since 1993, and that sounds great. The fact that the work force has grown by 450 000 people since 1992 means that, according to the federal government's theory, an extra 175 000 jobs were created to get unemployed people out of the unemployment line. Even that is not a bad achievement, but it is salutary then to go to DEET's own labour market review. It makes interesting reading. I am referring to page 2 of the September quarterly report. From 1988 to 1995, male part-time employment has increased by 60% and full-time employment has not increased on the indices. Female part-time employment has grown by 34% and female full-time employment has grown 15%. What the DEET analysis shows is a dramatic rise in part-time employment. We need to bear in mind that people are not regarded as unemployed, but rather as part-time employed, if they are working for one hour a week. I do not know too many families that can survive on one hour's pay a week.
Mr Ede: That is not what they get, and you know it.
Mr HATTON: What?
Mr Ede: That is not the only money available to them ...
Mr HATTON: No, it is not. You are dead right, but the figures say that they are employed.
Mr Ede: What do you say that they are?
Mr HATTON: I say basically that they are unemployed.
Members interjecting.
Mr Ede interjecting.
Mr HATTON: When they can afford ...
Mr Bailey: What is the true unemployment rate in the Territory?
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
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Mr HATTON: Prior to the 1994 elections, the previous Prime Minister, Bob Hawke, told the previous Territory Chief Minister at a COAG meeting and a meeting with the Premiers, on the condition they did not talk about it, that the unemployed in Australia totalled about 2 million people, but that the federal government was pretending then that 700 000 were unemployed. Again, it is interesting to see, at page 3 of DEET's report, that 753 300 people were unemployed as at September 1995. Interestingly, 813 900 people were on unemployment benefits. Another bunch of people were buried in training courses and in other places. People on training subsidies or CDEP schemes do not receive unemployment benefits. Although they are in training for employment, they are not in real jobs. I suggest that the media ought to stop accepting uncritically these statements about jobs growth, because all they are talking about is how many people are being placed in training courses. The reality is that DEET does not create jobs at all. DEET creates training and job readiness.
Mr Bailey: It does not buy hotels, I will tell you that.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr HATTON: The only way to create a real job is when you grow industry - when there is economic development and employers have sufficient profitability to employ people. The economic growth statistics of Australia are abysmal in terms of job development, and that is why there is massive growth in part-time employment and a decline in full-time employment in this country. It is about time Warren Snowdon began to accept that. It is fine to promote the job readiness programs, but he should stop trying to pretend that they are creating jobs, because they are not.
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ANSWER
Mr Speaker, I must admit that I was somewhat amazed by the federal member for the Northern Territory's announcement, through DEET's area consultative committee, that the aim is to create 16 000 additional jobs in the Northern Territory in the next 12 months.
Mr Ede: That is more than you have done in 10 years.
Mr HATTON: That is not true.
I want to examine the logic behind this particular number. I think he is a proponent of the political school of thought that, if you tell a big enough lie, people will believe it. It is worth noting that 79 000 people are employed currently in the Northern Territory. To create an extra 16 000 jobs in 12 months would require 20% growth in the Northern Territory work force in one year. Apparently, there are only 6200 unemployed people in the Northern Territory. Thus, he says he will create 16 000 additional jobs for 6200 people. Clearly, the figures are a nonsense. The reason they are a nonsense is because of the habit of the federal government, through DEET, Hon Simon Crean and Hon Warren Snowdon, of promoting continually the idea that, when the federal government pays for somebody to attend a training course, a job has been created. I am sure that is what he was talking about. The federal government is planning to spend something like - how many millions of dollars is it?
Mr Ede: It means that 16 000 Territorians will go into training programs, does it?
Mr HATTON: If the member for ...
Page 1052
Mr Ede: You are not going to knock it, are you?
Mr Bailey: You do not want it.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr HATTON: Gee, they are rude, aren't they?
Members interjecting.
Mr HATTON: The process of making 16 000 Territorians better job-skilled and more job ready is a laudable goal.
Mr Bailey: It is something you lot have not done much of in recent years.
Mr HATTON: That is interesting. We do not have $53m a year to spend on training programs.
Mr Ede: He is a good federal member if he has that.
Mr HATTON: Yes, particularly in an election year.
Members interjecting.
Mr HATTON: The fact is that the federal government is promoting the idea that a job is created every time a person is placed in a training course. It manipulates the statistics to the point where it is able almost to make it look as though that is true. It is interesting to examine some of the statistics. If, according to the federal government, only 6000 people are unemployed in the Territory how will it create and fill 16 000 extra jobs? Does it intend to import 10 000 people from interstate, particularly considering that the Northern Territory has currently the second- or third-lowest unemployment rate in Australia and the highest work force participation rate in Australia ...
Members interjecting.
Mr HATTON: ... between 15 and 65, a larger proportion of Territorians are in the work force than are in the work force elsewhere in Australia.
Mr Bailey: So you do not want this?
Mr HATTON: That is great. We are saying that the figures are good.
It is interesting that DEET told the Northern Territory Employment and Training Authority that a sufficient and realistic target to provide off-the-job training for trainees in 1996 was 700.
Mr Ede: He will kick it up to 16 000.
Page 1053
Mr HATTON: He says that he will create 16 000 jobs. Do you think it sounds a bit suss? I think it sounds a bit suss.
Mr Ede: Another $53m sounds pretty good.
Mr HATTON: That is, if it actually comes here. You wonder how they fiddle those figures too. It is interesting. We need to look at the ...
Mr Bailey: You had enough money for this place.
Mr HATTON: Just listen.
We need to look at some of these unemployment figures, because they make interesting reading. The Labor federal government has said that it has created 653 000 jobs since 1993, and that sounds great. The fact that the work force has grown by 450 000 people since 1992 means that, according to the federal government's theory, an extra 175 000 jobs were created to get unemployed people out of the unemployment line. Even that is not a bad achievement, but it is salutary then to go to DEET's own labour market review. It makes interesting reading. I am referring to page 2 of the September quarterly report. From 1988 to 1995, male part-time employment has increased by 60% and full-time employment has not increased on the indices. Female part-time employment has grown by 34% and female full-time employment has grown 15%. What the DEET analysis shows is a dramatic rise in part-time employment. We need to bear in mind that people are not regarded as unemployed, but rather as part-time employed, if they are working for one hour a week. I do not know too many families that can survive on one hour's pay a week.
Mr Ede: That is not what they get, and you know it.
Mr HATTON: What?
Mr Ede: That is not the only money available to them ...
Mr HATTON: No, it is not. You are dead right, but the figures say that they are employed.
Mr Ede: What do you say that they are?
Mr HATTON: I say basically that they are unemployed.
Members interjecting.
Mr Ede interjecting.
Mr HATTON: When they can afford ...
Mr Bailey: What is the true unemployment rate in the Territory?
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Page 1054
Mr HATTON: Prior to the 1994 elections, the previous Prime Minister, Bob Hawke, told the previous Territory Chief Minister at a COAG meeting and a meeting with the Premiers, on the condition they did not talk about it, that the unemployed in Australia totalled about 2 million people, but that the federal government was pretending then that 700 000 were unemployed. Again, it is interesting to see, at page 3 of DEET's report, that 753 300 people were unemployed as at September 1995. Interestingly, 813 900 people were on unemployment benefits. Another bunch of people were buried in training courses and in other places. People on training subsidies or CDEP schemes do not receive unemployment benefits. Although they are in training for employment, they are not in real jobs. I suggest that the media ought to stop accepting uncritically these statements about jobs growth, because all they are talking about is how many people are being placed in training courses. The reality is that DEET does not create jobs at all. DEET creates training and job readiness.
Mr Bailey: It does not buy hotels, I will tell you that.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr HATTON: The only way to create a real job is when you grow industry - when there is economic development and employers have sufficient profitability to employ people. The economic growth statistics of Australia are abysmal in terms of job development, and that is why there is massive growth in part-time employment and a decline in full-time employment in this country. It is about time Warren Snowdon began to accept that. It is fine to promote the job readiness programs, but he should stop trying to pretend that they are creating jobs, because they are not.
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Last updated: 09 Aug 2016