Mr ADAMSON - 1996-02-20
My question relates to the escape and capture of 2 prisoners from Darwin Prison last year. Some members of the opposition have been critical that details of upgraded security measures have not been made public. For example, earlier this month, the member for Fannie Bay claimed that the public needed to know how a key was obtained and copied. The question was also raised as to whether any locks had been changed. I recall that those details were made public before Christmas. In that light, I ask the minister what has changed to inspire members of the opposition to seek information that is already on the public record?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, the escape of 2 prisoners from Darwin Prison certainly caused a great deal of concern to the government and to the community. It is important that the community understands that the circumstances that allowed that escape to occur have been changed to prevent any recurrence. In other words, all the processes that were in place that enabled that escape to occur have been changed.
A number of comments were made over the weeks on the details of the escape. I have made it very clear, as have other members of the government, that the government will not be releasing the report on the investigation into the escape and that it will release only those details which were of a non-security nature. Most people would consider that to be a prudent attitude. Even those least endowed with intelligence will recognise that prisoners read newspapers, listen to the radio and watch the television. Any information which could be utilised by ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: Any information, which could be used by prisoners to make an escape possible, will not be released. Members opposite can argue the opposite. They can say that, if they were in power, they would provide prisoners with full details of security measures to enable them to escape easily. That is the position they can take as a policy issue. That is fine,
Page 1154
provided that their point of view and our point of view are known by the community. I think I know which policy the majority of people in the community would agree with.
Some particular claims were made by the member for Fannie Bay. On 5 February, I informed a radio interviewer that there were certain aspects relating to security that would not be discussed publicly. The member for Fannie Bay was then interviewed and she was asked: `What additional information do you think should be available? What would you like to know?' She replied:
I would like to know that prisoners will not be able to
get hold of a key again. That is very basic. I mean,
the minister says: `They were able to get hold of a
key and we have stopped that'. How has it been
stopped? I do not think you breach security by telling
people it is not going to happen. I mean, that is an
extraordinary breach of security that a key was got
hold of, an impression made and it was reproduced. I
mean, that is extraordinary. I think that that should
not happen again. We are looking at things like, if
the locks were breached, then I think the community
would support new locks going in.
She went on to say ...
Mr Bailey interjecting.
Mr MANZIE: Have a listen! She said:
We have still got Darwin Prison. It still needs to be
secured. Put in new locks. If they are not up to
scratch, put in new locks.
That was what the member for Fannie Bay said, on the ABC Morning Show, that she needed to know as a result of the inquiry into the escape. I find that extraordinary.
Ms Martin: Why?
Mr MANZIE: She asks why. It is because ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: I will tell you why it was extraordinary, Mr Speaker. It was because that information had been provided publicly many times, and the member for Fannie Bay would know very well that it was provided. I will run through the number of times that that information was provided publicly.
On 11 December, on the 8DDD Morning Show, a reporter was interviewing the Director of Correctional Services. The reporter asked: `But is it also accurate to say there was a key involved in this which the pair had cut?' This was on 11 December, some 2 months before the member for Fannie Bay said that she wanted to know this information. The director replied: `Yes, well, that has been announced, and there was a makeshift key used'. He also said, and
Page 1155
he was talking about the prisoner: `He managed to work out how to actually build a key that actually opened his cell lock'. In relation to a question regarding whether there was more than one lock that needed to be opened for someone to get out of the prison, the director said: `There is indeed, but the key can be used in a number of ways'. He continued: `We took steps yesterday to correct immediately. We have been using old locking technology in the Darwin Prison. It has been there for quite a number of years'. He said: `We will certainly be looking at the locking system and taking whatever steps are necessary to make sure there is no further compromise of the integrity of the locking system. As of yesterday, we actually have solved the problem. It cannot occur again in the way that these 2 did it'.
Further, on 11 December, the acting minister at the time, the Minister for Health Services, who was acting in my stead ...
Members interjecting.
Mr Bailey: You did not know, did you? That was the problem.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: Mr Speaker, on 11 December, in answer to a question asked on the 8DDD Morning Show, the acting minister said: `What the head of corrections has indicated here is that, given the old technology of the locking system, they found a weakness which has been attended to immediately' - already, in other words. That was a third confirmation given publicly that the locking system had been changed.
Further, on 11 December, one Michael Park said, on the Channel 8 news: `The duo broke out of their medium-security cells using a makeshift key fashioned from scrap metal - I quote what the acting minister said - using tools that were used for hobby purposes'. That was a public announcement that hobby tools were used to fashion a makeshift key. On 12 December, in answer to a question asked on the Morning Show, I said: `There have been changes made to the lock system'. That was another public announcement.
It needs to be reinforced that, on 14 December, the member for Fannie Bay was briefed by the director and myself regarding the details of what occurred, including details of the manufacture of a key using hobby equipment which was located in the prisoner's cell. That information, that a key had been manufactured and how it was done, was provided both publicly and privately. The fact that the locks were changed immediately had been communicated also, both publicly and privately, on a number of occasions. Then the member for Fannie Bay - obviously only in an attempt to create distress in the community - claimed that I said: `They were able to get hold of a key, and we have stopped that'. They did not `get hold of' any key; they manufactured one. She well knew that. She went on to say: `The key was got hold of, an impression made and it was reproduced'.
Ms Martin: That is what you told me.
Mr MANZIE: Never! Never has that information been provided to anyone because it is simply not true. Indeed, the member for Fannie Bay is becoming the Carmen Lawrence of the Legislative Assembly of the Northern Territory. It is very unfortunate that, from the day
Page 1156
that she entered this parliament, and even prior to her entering this parliament, on everything she has had dealings with, including environmental matters, prison matters and housing matters, she has been unable to stick with the facts. She has to embellish them. All I would say ...
Mr Bailey: You would not know a fact if it hit you on the nose!
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: Members opposite can make all the noise they like, to try to protect the integrity of the member for Fannie Bay All I have done here is to reproduce facts. I have quoted words that have been released publicly. I ask the media to look at the record of the member for Fannie Bay to see how accurate she has been ever since she has been in the parliament, and when she makes a statement, I suggest they check the public record. Perhaps they could even ask some questions which might elicit a little more information from the member for Fannie Bay. They are on fertile ground. She cannot help herself.
What we should be concerned about is that we identify how those prisoners escaped from the prison. The method has been identified. They manufactured a key, using hobby metal-working equipment which was allowed in the cells. That equipment is no longer allowed in cells. The type of hobby equipment allowed now is described as applying only to `soft hobbies'. Therefore, that situation will not occur again. The locks have been added to, and the member for Fannie Bay has seen the types of locks. The ability to repeat those acts will not be able to recur. That is what is important in all of this.
I say to the member for Fannie Bay that she does not have to be cute and clever. She does not have to tell fibbies. She has simply to stick to the facts. It was indeed a serious matter that 2 prisoners escaped from the prison, and it was important that the details of how they were able to escape were established. It is important also that the community knows that changes have been made to the system to prevent ...
Mr Bailey: But you will not tell them what the changes are.
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: For members to stand up in public and say that they do not know, when in fact the information has been provided, is misleading and mischievous. I will not sit back and allow that sort of misinformation to be perpetuated without providing the correct information to the community. I am very happy to answer any questions of a non-security nature regarding any details of the escape, and also concerning anything that has been put in place - again, so long as it will not affect the integrity of security. I have always said that, and certainly that still stands.
Page 1157
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, the escape of 2 prisoners from Darwin Prison certainly caused a great deal of concern to the government and to the community. It is important that the community understands that the circumstances that allowed that escape to occur have been changed to prevent any recurrence. In other words, all the processes that were in place that enabled that escape to occur have been changed.
A number of comments were made over the weeks on the details of the escape. I have made it very clear, as have other members of the government, that the government will not be releasing the report on the investigation into the escape and that it will release only those details which were of a non-security nature. Most people would consider that to be a prudent attitude. Even those least endowed with intelligence will recognise that prisoners read newspapers, listen to the radio and watch the television. Any information which could be utilised by ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: Any information, which could be used by prisoners to make an escape possible, will not be released. Members opposite can argue the opposite. They can say that, if they were in power, they would provide prisoners with full details of security measures to enable them to escape easily. That is the position they can take as a policy issue. That is fine,
Page 1154
provided that their point of view and our point of view are known by the community. I think I know which policy the majority of people in the community would agree with.
Some particular claims were made by the member for Fannie Bay. On 5 February, I informed a radio interviewer that there were certain aspects relating to security that would not be discussed publicly. The member for Fannie Bay was then interviewed and she was asked: `What additional information do you think should be available? What would you like to know?' She replied:
I would like to know that prisoners will not be able to
get hold of a key again. That is very basic. I mean,
the minister says: `They were able to get hold of a
key and we have stopped that'. How has it been
stopped? I do not think you breach security by telling
people it is not going to happen. I mean, that is an
extraordinary breach of security that a key was got
hold of, an impression made and it was reproduced. I
mean, that is extraordinary. I think that that should
not happen again. We are looking at things like, if
the locks were breached, then I think the community
would support new locks going in.
She went on to say ...
Mr Bailey interjecting.
Mr MANZIE: Have a listen! She said:
We have still got Darwin Prison. It still needs to be
secured. Put in new locks. If they are not up to
scratch, put in new locks.
That was what the member for Fannie Bay said, on the ABC Morning Show, that she needed to know as a result of the inquiry into the escape. I find that extraordinary.
Ms Martin: Why?
Mr MANZIE: She asks why. It is because ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: I will tell you why it was extraordinary, Mr Speaker. It was because that information had been provided publicly many times, and the member for Fannie Bay would know very well that it was provided. I will run through the number of times that that information was provided publicly.
On 11 December, on the 8DDD Morning Show, a reporter was interviewing the Director of Correctional Services. The reporter asked: `But is it also accurate to say there was a key involved in this which the pair had cut?' This was on 11 December, some 2 months before the member for Fannie Bay said that she wanted to know this information. The director replied: `Yes, well, that has been announced, and there was a makeshift key used'. He also said, and
Page 1155
he was talking about the prisoner: `He managed to work out how to actually build a key that actually opened his cell lock'. In relation to a question regarding whether there was more than one lock that needed to be opened for someone to get out of the prison, the director said: `There is indeed, but the key can be used in a number of ways'. He continued: `We took steps yesterday to correct immediately. We have been using old locking technology in the Darwin Prison. It has been there for quite a number of years'. He said: `We will certainly be looking at the locking system and taking whatever steps are necessary to make sure there is no further compromise of the integrity of the locking system. As of yesterday, we actually have solved the problem. It cannot occur again in the way that these 2 did it'.
Further, on 11 December, the acting minister at the time, the Minister for Health Services, who was acting in my stead ...
Members interjecting.
Mr Bailey: You did not know, did you? That was the problem.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: Mr Speaker, on 11 December, in answer to a question asked on the 8DDD Morning Show, the acting minister said: `What the head of corrections has indicated here is that, given the old technology of the locking system, they found a weakness which has been attended to immediately' - already, in other words. That was a third confirmation given publicly that the locking system had been changed.
Further, on 11 December, one Michael Park said, on the Channel 8 news: `The duo broke out of their medium-security cells using a makeshift key fashioned from scrap metal - I quote what the acting minister said - using tools that were used for hobby purposes'. That was a public announcement that hobby tools were used to fashion a makeshift key. On 12 December, in answer to a question asked on the Morning Show, I said: `There have been changes made to the lock system'. That was another public announcement.
It needs to be reinforced that, on 14 December, the member for Fannie Bay was briefed by the director and myself regarding the details of what occurred, including details of the manufacture of a key using hobby equipment which was located in the prisoner's cell. That information, that a key had been manufactured and how it was done, was provided both publicly and privately. The fact that the locks were changed immediately had been communicated also, both publicly and privately, on a number of occasions. Then the member for Fannie Bay - obviously only in an attempt to create distress in the community - claimed that I said: `They were able to get hold of a key, and we have stopped that'. They did not `get hold of' any key; they manufactured one. She well knew that. She went on to say: `The key was got hold of, an impression made and it was reproduced'.
Ms Martin: That is what you told me.
Mr MANZIE: Never! Never has that information been provided to anyone because it is simply not true. Indeed, the member for Fannie Bay is becoming the Carmen Lawrence of the Legislative Assembly of the Northern Territory. It is very unfortunate that, from the day
Page 1156
that she entered this parliament, and even prior to her entering this parliament, on everything she has had dealings with, including environmental matters, prison matters and housing matters, she has been unable to stick with the facts. She has to embellish them. All I would say ...
Mr Bailey: You would not know a fact if it hit you on the nose!
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: Members opposite can make all the noise they like, to try to protect the integrity of the member for Fannie Bay All I have done here is to reproduce facts. I have quoted words that have been released publicly. I ask the media to look at the record of the member for Fannie Bay to see how accurate she has been ever since she has been in the parliament, and when she makes a statement, I suggest they check the public record. Perhaps they could even ask some questions which might elicit a little more information from the member for Fannie Bay. They are on fertile ground. She cannot help herself.
What we should be concerned about is that we identify how those prisoners escaped from the prison. The method has been identified. They manufactured a key, using hobby metal-working equipment which was allowed in the cells. That equipment is no longer allowed in cells. The type of hobby equipment allowed now is described as applying only to `soft hobbies'. Therefore, that situation will not occur again. The locks have been added to, and the member for Fannie Bay has seen the types of locks. The ability to repeat those acts will not be able to recur. That is what is important in all of this.
I say to the member for Fannie Bay that she does not have to be cute and clever. She does not have to tell fibbies. She has simply to stick to the facts. It was indeed a serious matter that 2 prisoners escaped from the prison, and it was important that the details of how they were able to escape were established. It is important also that the community knows that changes have been made to the system to prevent ...
Mr Bailey: But you will not tell them what the changes are.
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: For members to stand up in public and say that they do not know, when in fact the information has been provided, is misleading and mischievous. I will not sit back and allow that sort of misinformation to be perpetuated without providing the correct information to the community. I am very happy to answer any questions of a non-security nature regarding any details of the escape, and also concerning anything that has been put in place - again, so long as it will not affect the integrity of security. I have always said that, and certainly that still stands.
Page 1157
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016