Mr EDE - 1995-10-11
I make it quite clear that, in asking this question, I am not making an attack on members of the Greek or Cypriot communities or their homelands, but I am looking for answers that the Chief Minister refused or failed to provide to the media. Which of the people listed as delegation members in the document tabled by himself last night travelled at government expense on his trip to the Mediterranean? What was the cost of the air fares borne by taxpayers? Was the total cost of on-ground transport, accommodation, hospitality and protocol expenses paid for the Greek and Cypriot governments, as claimed by the Chief Minister on the ABC on 2 October, or did the taxpayer pay some of these costs, as he told the NT News on 6 October? Was the $30 000 charter around the Mediterranean organised by the contingent, as was mentioned in the NT News on 6 October? Finally, is the Chief Minister prepared to provide the full details and costs of this trip to the taxpayers, as he promised he would do in the NT News of 2 October?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, whether the Leader of the Opposition likes it or not, his handling of this issue and the disgraceful press release issued by his deputy, the member for Barkly, is seen very much as an attack on the Greek and Cypriot communities.
Mr Stirling: Only by you.
Mr Ede interjecting.
Mr STONE: You do not have to take my word for it. I understand that representatives of those communities will seek meetings with you to put their point of view because they are deeply offended by the slimy way that you have hidden behind your hands and tried to whip this up into an issue.
Mr Ede: What a load of garbage!
Mr STONE: Let us see what kind of reception you receive next time you visit the Kalymnian Hall. Let us see what kind of reception you have next time you front up to the Cypriot Community Hall. They have seen through you.
The member asked whose air fares were paid for by the Territory government. The air fares were paid for myself and my wife, my ministerial colleague and Mrs Finch, Mr John Tsoukalis, who was acting as a consultant to the Ministry of Asian Relations, Trade and Industry, Ms Janicean Price, Director of the Office of Ethnic Affairs, Mr Peter Farrell, Director of Protocol and Public Relations, and Mr Bert Weidermann, a protocol officer. That is the extent of the air fares that were paid.
Mr Ede: You took your own photographer?
Page 836
Mr STONE: We took 2 protocol officers and no ministerial officers. That is something that you gloss over. You know that, when you go overseas, you are entitled to be accompanied by personal staff. You know that is true.
Mr Ede: I have gone once in my whole career, and I took only one officer.
Mr STONE: You are not even truthful. You say that you have been once in your career. However, you are lining up a trip to Indonesia for the end of this year which you have submitted to me. Don't come in here pretending ...
Mr Ede: We are discussing it. You are trying to get me to go as interpreter for you to Papua New Guinea. I am not doing that either.
Mr STONE: Well, do not go. The Papua New Guinea cultural group thought that it might be nice to have their political leaders in Papua New Guinea over the course of that weekend while a memorandum of understanding and trade issues are being discussed. However, now you are saying that you will not go, and that you are purer than the driven snow. You are a phoney. You have had details of the number of people whose air fares were paid for.
Mr Ede: Yes.
Mr STONE: As I said publicly, both the Greek and Cypriot governments picked up accommodation costs, protocol costs and other associated expenses. That varied between Greece and Cyprus because they ...
Mr Ede: So you were wrong?
Mr STONE: Well, what do you want me to do - telephone Athens or Nicosia and say that we have an ignoramus in Darwin who is insisting that those countries say whose expenses they paid when those people were in their country at their invitation?
Mr Ede: I want to know what the taxpayer paid for.
Mr Stirling: The taxpayer wants to know.
Mr STONE: You can be assured - and I want Territorians to know this - that, if you are concerned about my sitting in 5-star pubs in Athens or Nicosia, it was at the expense of the Greek and Cypriot taxpayers, not at your expense nor at the expense of the taxpayers of the Northern Territory. That is a matter you are very keen to gloss over as well.
Mr Ede: What did we pay for?
Mr STONE: You have before you what was tabled last night, and I would suggest that it is the most comprehensive itinerary that has ever been tabled in this Chamber. From it, you know exactly what I did from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to sleep.
Page 837
Mr Ede: You spent all your time in museums and monasteries, and checking out digs and ...
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STONE: I want this in the Parliamentary Record, Mr Speaker. I hope it is being recorded.
I happen to be the Minister for the Arts and Museums, you turkey!
Mr Ede: So you intend to make a world tour of arts galleries and museums?
Mr STONE: This is typical of the opposition's misrepresentation. I was told I had been on an odyssey through the Mediterranean and that I had been jetting around the Greek islands. I asked my staff how many Greek islands there are. I thought that there might be 100 perhaps, but there are actually 1400. I went from Athens to Kos, by fishing boat to Kalymnos and then on to Cyprus - and that is an odyssey through the Mediterranean! Leave me alone!
Members interjecting.
Mr STONE: The Deputy Leader of the Opposition issues a press release describing it as `a Greek odyssey'!
Mrs Hickey: Yes.
Mr STONE: This is the same woman who went to Japan, as the opposition health spokesperson, to look at bedpans.
Mrs Hickey: Bedpans? Rehabilitation ...
Mr STONE: You have such incredible double standards. I will tell you what I will do for you ...
Mr Ede: I want the answer to this question.
Mr STONE: I have indicated what we paid for, and what the Greek and the Cypriot governments paid for.
Mr Ede: How much?
Mr STONE: I do not have a complete accounting, but I will tell you this ...
Mr Ede: Was there a $30 000 charter? Is that true?
Mr STONE: No, listen to what I am about to tell you. I will apply the same level of scrutiny and accountability to my travel and hospitality as applies to yours ...
Page 838
Mr Ede And your ministers?
Mr Stirling: That is fine. We are happy to accept it.
Mr STONE: ... no more no less - the same level of scrutiny and accountability that is applied to your own. You know ...
Mr Stirling: The same rules. We have no problem with that.
Mr STONE: I am pleased to hear you say that you have no problem with that.
Mr Stirling: No problem at all.
Mr STONE: That is good because you know that hospitality and travel is reported in the annual report of the Department of the Chief Minister. There is no secret about it. In fact, I became a little interested - and I see that you are in there too ...
Mr Ede: Yes.
Mr STONE: In one particular year, I see that you even outspent at least 3 ministers.
Mr Ede: You would expect that.
Mr STONE: Yes, I do not have a problem with it.
Mr Ede: Around Australia, you will find that.
Mr STONE: If that was around Australia, I would have a problem with it. $92 000 to go around Australia? Come on! Even the Attorney-General and the Minister for Transport and Works spent only $38 000 in that year, but you spent $92 000 - around Australia?
Mr Ede: Quite possibly.
Mr STONE: There must have been a large amount of postage in that for direct mail. However, the point is ...
Mrs Hickey: Postage?
Mr Ede: What figure are you referring to there? Postage does not come under travel.
Mr STONE: Haven't you seen that? That is your expenses in 1993-94. You are the Leader of the Opposition, aren't you?
Mr Ede: This is not travel and accommodation.
Mr STONE: The Leader of the Opposition - $92 148.
Mrs Hickey: What is the expenditure heading?
Page 839
Mr Ede: What for?
Mr STONE: Ministerial travel and hospitality. Haven't you seen this? Are you saying that you have never seen it?
Mr Ede: I presume that it has been tabled.
Mr STONE: It is tabled in the House. It is in every copy of the Chief Minister's ...
Mr Ede: Yes? So what is your problem?
Mr STONE: What should we tell them about how you ...
Mr Ede: You spent that amount on this trip.
Mr STONE: As I have said, I will apply the same degree of accountability ...
Mr Ede: You said that you would tell us the cost of this trip, but now you are trying to weasel out of it.
Mr STONE: Do not quote me selectively.
Mr Ede: That is what you just said.
Mr STONE: I am telling you that I will apply the same level of accountability and scrutiny to my travel and hospitality expenses as is applied to yours - no more and no less.
Page 840
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, whether the Leader of the Opposition likes it or not, his handling of this issue and the disgraceful press release issued by his deputy, the member for Barkly, is seen very much as an attack on the Greek and Cypriot communities.
Mr Stirling: Only by you.
Mr Ede interjecting.
Mr STONE: You do not have to take my word for it. I understand that representatives of those communities will seek meetings with you to put their point of view because they are deeply offended by the slimy way that you have hidden behind your hands and tried to whip this up into an issue.
Mr Ede: What a load of garbage!
Mr STONE: Let us see what kind of reception you receive next time you visit the Kalymnian Hall. Let us see what kind of reception you have next time you front up to the Cypriot Community Hall. They have seen through you.
The member asked whose air fares were paid for by the Territory government. The air fares were paid for myself and my wife, my ministerial colleague and Mrs Finch, Mr John Tsoukalis, who was acting as a consultant to the Ministry of Asian Relations, Trade and Industry, Ms Janicean Price, Director of the Office of Ethnic Affairs, Mr Peter Farrell, Director of Protocol and Public Relations, and Mr Bert Weidermann, a protocol officer. That is the extent of the air fares that were paid.
Mr Ede: You took your own photographer?
Page 836
Mr STONE: We took 2 protocol officers and no ministerial officers. That is something that you gloss over. You know that, when you go overseas, you are entitled to be accompanied by personal staff. You know that is true.
Mr Ede: I have gone once in my whole career, and I took only one officer.
Mr STONE: You are not even truthful. You say that you have been once in your career. However, you are lining up a trip to Indonesia for the end of this year which you have submitted to me. Don't come in here pretending ...
Mr Ede: We are discussing it. You are trying to get me to go as interpreter for you to Papua New Guinea. I am not doing that either.
Mr STONE: Well, do not go. The Papua New Guinea cultural group thought that it might be nice to have their political leaders in Papua New Guinea over the course of that weekend while a memorandum of understanding and trade issues are being discussed. However, now you are saying that you will not go, and that you are purer than the driven snow. You are a phoney. You have had details of the number of people whose air fares were paid for.
Mr Ede: Yes.
Mr STONE: As I said publicly, both the Greek and Cypriot governments picked up accommodation costs, protocol costs and other associated expenses. That varied between Greece and Cyprus because they ...
Mr Ede: So you were wrong?
Mr STONE: Well, what do you want me to do - telephone Athens or Nicosia and say that we have an ignoramus in Darwin who is insisting that those countries say whose expenses they paid when those people were in their country at their invitation?
Mr Ede: I want to know what the taxpayer paid for.
Mr Stirling: The taxpayer wants to know.
Mr STONE: You can be assured - and I want Territorians to know this - that, if you are concerned about my sitting in 5-star pubs in Athens or Nicosia, it was at the expense of the Greek and Cypriot taxpayers, not at your expense nor at the expense of the taxpayers of the Northern Territory. That is a matter you are very keen to gloss over as well.
Mr Ede: What did we pay for?
Mr STONE: You have before you what was tabled last night, and I would suggest that it is the most comprehensive itinerary that has ever been tabled in this Chamber. From it, you know exactly what I did from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to sleep.
Page 837
Mr Ede: You spent all your time in museums and monasteries, and checking out digs and ...
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STONE: I want this in the Parliamentary Record, Mr Speaker. I hope it is being recorded.
I happen to be the Minister for the Arts and Museums, you turkey!
Mr Ede: So you intend to make a world tour of arts galleries and museums?
Mr STONE: This is typical of the opposition's misrepresentation. I was told I had been on an odyssey through the Mediterranean and that I had been jetting around the Greek islands. I asked my staff how many Greek islands there are. I thought that there might be 100 perhaps, but there are actually 1400. I went from Athens to Kos, by fishing boat to Kalymnos and then on to Cyprus - and that is an odyssey through the Mediterranean! Leave me alone!
Members interjecting.
Mr STONE: The Deputy Leader of the Opposition issues a press release describing it as `a Greek odyssey'!
Mrs Hickey: Yes.
Mr STONE: This is the same woman who went to Japan, as the opposition health spokesperson, to look at bedpans.
Mrs Hickey: Bedpans? Rehabilitation ...
Mr STONE: You have such incredible double standards. I will tell you what I will do for you ...
Mr Ede: I want the answer to this question.
Mr STONE: I have indicated what we paid for, and what the Greek and the Cypriot governments paid for.
Mr Ede: How much?
Mr STONE: I do not have a complete accounting, but I will tell you this ...
Mr Ede: Was there a $30 000 charter? Is that true?
Mr STONE: No, listen to what I am about to tell you. I will apply the same level of scrutiny and accountability to my travel and hospitality as applies to yours ...
Page 838
Mr Ede And your ministers?
Mr Stirling: That is fine. We are happy to accept it.
Mr STONE: ... no more no less - the same level of scrutiny and accountability that is applied to your own. You know ...
Mr Stirling: The same rules. We have no problem with that.
Mr STONE: I am pleased to hear you say that you have no problem with that.
Mr Stirling: No problem at all.
Mr STONE: That is good because you know that hospitality and travel is reported in the annual report of the Department of the Chief Minister. There is no secret about it. In fact, I became a little interested - and I see that you are in there too ...
Mr Ede: Yes.
Mr STONE: In one particular year, I see that you even outspent at least 3 ministers.
Mr Ede: You would expect that.
Mr STONE: Yes, I do not have a problem with it.
Mr Ede: Around Australia, you will find that.
Mr STONE: If that was around Australia, I would have a problem with it. $92 000 to go around Australia? Come on! Even the Attorney-General and the Minister for Transport and Works spent only $38 000 in that year, but you spent $92 000 - around Australia?
Mr Ede: Quite possibly.
Mr STONE: There must have been a large amount of postage in that for direct mail. However, the point is ...
Mrs Hickey: Postage?
Mr Ede: What figure are you referring to there? Postage does not come under travel.
Mr STONE: Haven't you seen that? That is your expenses in 1993-94. You are the Leader of the Opposition, aren't you?
Mr Ede: This is not travel and accommodation.
Mr STONE: The Leader of the Opposition - $92 148.
Mrs Hickey: What is the expenditure heading?
Page 839
Mr Ede: What for?
Mr STONE: Ministerial travel and hospitality. Haven't you seen this? Are you saying that you have never seen it?
Mr Ede: I presume that it has been tabled.
Mr STONE: It is tabled in the House. It is in every copy of the Chief Minister's ...
Mr Ede: Yes? So what is your problem?
Mr STONE: What should we tell them about how you ...
Mr Ede: You spent that amount on this trip.
Mr STONE: As I have said, I will apply the same degree of accountability ...
Mr Ede: You said that you would tell us the cost of this trip, but now you are trying to weasel out of it.
Mr STONE: Do not quote me selectively.
Mr Ede: That is what you just said.
Mr STONE: I am telling you that I will apply the same level of accountability and scrutiny to my travel and hospitality expenses as is applied to yours - no more and no less.
Page 840
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016