Mrs BRAHAM - 2006-06-15
Last week, in a two-bedroom unit in a public housing complex, 17 visitors created a riot with their drinking. You have introduced the dry areas legislation for towns today – or are going to. My problem is that you are pushing the itinerant drinkers into public housing or into housing on town camps. Do you understand fully the implications of what you are doing? How do you think people in the public housing and the town camps are going to cope with the drinkers now that they are not out in the public?
ANSWER
Mr Acting Speaker, I thank the member for Braitling for her question which, I can tell from the way she asked, she delivers with some conviction and concern about where the legislative measures we are bringing to bear might eventually lead.
I just correct her - I announced today that we will put out …
Mrs Braham: Yes, I am sorry, announced today.
Mr STIRLING: … a discussion draft bill on the dry areas legislation. We have, of course, already in place the antisocial behaviour legislation. We have in place, as from 1 July 2006, the ability to declare a particular premises – your own – dry.
In the case of the 17 people packed into a two-bedroom unit - and I imagine it was not all that tidy, because that is what tends to happen in those sorts of situations - I would be talking to the tenant and encouraging the tenant to put up their hand and nominate that particular residence in which they live as a dry area. Then, she has the full force of the law on her side should 14, 15, 16 or 17 people come through the door, loaded with green cans, because they are then breaching that particular legislation.
Mrs Braham: That is really hard, as you know. There are cultural obligations.
Mr STIRLING: Yes, that is hard, but this is a tough area of quite complex social challenges before us. For example, on the one hand, we have the normal freedoms of life, we have a particular lifestyle in the Northern Territory. We do not want to affect that. We do not want to affect a person having fun on a Friday night, and having a few. We do not want to affect those people who go out to Nightcliff wharf, or to the Telegraph Station in Alice Springs and knock over a bottle of Chardonnay, or whatever, on a particular afternoon or evening. Therefore, it is a fine line and we have to draw that line between not disadvantaging those who drink alcohol sensibly - and, by far and away, the majority do. However, there is this hard core minority that are hell-bent on knocking themselves around with grog, and they are either subject to violence as victims, or they perpetrate violence on others. That is the hard core that we want to get to.
The longer term implications of where this legislation goes, and what happens - because this raises the question of what we saw in Port Augusta very clearly in terms of dry area legislation. I can say, when the legislation in Port Augusta, as it operates, was explained to the people from Alice Springs Town Council and the Alice Springs community who were at Port Augusta with me and the Mayor of Tennant Creek, frankly, their responses were pretty cold. They were a bit shamed that here was a measure designed to take it off the streets, out of sight, out of mind.
What that meant that was that 2 km out of town over the red sand dune, that is where the binge drinking was taking place at the same levels that it had been occurring before that legislation came into place. However, more dangerous and more concerning from that, was that they were out of sight and mind of the police and health professionals. If there was someone raped or there was someone bashed half to death, no one knew. No one knew and no one cared. To their credit - and I felt very proud to be a Territorian in this room during this presentation - one after the other Territory speakers said: ‘Not too keen on that’. They asked what happens to the people. At the local government level in the Territory, there was a concern for the victims of alcohol and what happens to them, which is not picked up in the Port Augusta experience.
I am saying that we are aware of the implications and where this might head. There is a long way to go on this, let me assure you - a long way to go. We are rewriting the entire Liquor Act as I speak. That is a process of work that will take 18 months ...
Mrs Braham: Do not create another problem by doing it, though.
Mr STIRLING: No. We need to have measures in place that we know will work today, but we have to be proactive in responses to where that might lead us. For example, if I was to jump up today and say: ‘That is it! No more, four or five litres casks, off the shelf, none in the Territory to be sold. Get rid of those casks!’ I do not have the power. The government have given me enormous powers under these bills …
Ms Carney: The Speaker has given you a lot of latitude to answer a very short question.
Mr STIRLING: … that have come through. If I said no more four and five litre casks, what happens if there is a substitution immediately to bottled port? Instead of taking the cardboard four and five litre Riesling or Moselle casks out the door, they take two or three glass bottles of port? You then have potential for dangerous litter if the bottle gets broken. You have potential for dangerous weapons in people’s hands.
We are mindful of trying to second guess where these things go. Your question is a legitimate one, and it is one that we will continue to give our consideration to.
Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Members, I heard the Leader of the Opposition interject that it was a long answer and I am inclined to agree with her.
Mr Stirling: Well, it was a complex issue.
Mr ACTING SPEAKER: It was a complex issue, but I ask ministers when responding to try to be a little shorter in their answers.
ANSWER
Mr Acting Speaker, I thank the member for Braitling for her question which, I can tell from the way she asked, she delivers with some conviction and concern about where the legislative measures we are bringing to bear might eventually lead.
I just correct her - I announced today that we will put out …
Mrs Braham: Yes, I am sorry, announced today.
Mr STIRLING: … a discussion draft bill on the dry areas legislation. We have, of course, already in place the antisocial behaviour legislation. We have in place, as from 1 July 2006, the ability to declare a particular premises – your own – dry.
In the case of the 17 people packed into a two-bedroom unit - and I imagine it was not all that tidy, because that is what tends to happen in those sorts of situations - I would be talking to the tenant and encouraging the tenant to put up their hand and nominate that particular residence in which they live as a dry area. Then, she has the full force of the law on her side should 14, 15, 16 or 17 people come through the door, loaded with green cans, because they are then breaching that particular legislation.
Mrs Braham: That is really hard, as you know. There are cultural obligations.
Mr STIRLING: Yes, that is hard, but this is a tough area of quite complex social challenges before us. For example, on the one hand, we have the normal freedoms of life, we have a particular lifestyle in the Northern Territory. We do not want to affect that. We do not want to affect a person having fun on a Friday night, and having a few. We do not want to affect those people who go out to Nightcliff wharf, or to the Telegraph Station in Alice Springs and knock over a bottle of Chardonnay, or whatever, on a particular afternoon or evening. Therefore, it is a fine line and we have to draw that line between not disadvantaging those who drink alcohol sensibly - and, by far and away, the majority do. However, there is this hard core minority that are hell-bent on knocking themselves around with grog, and they are either subject to violence as victims, or they perpetrate violence on others. That is the hard core that we want to get to.
The longer term implications of where this legislation goes, and what happens - because this raises the question of what we saw in Port Augusta very clearly in terms of dry area legislation. I can say, when the legislation in Port Augusta, as it operates, was explained to the people from Alice Springs Town Council and the Alice Springs community who were at Port Augusta with me and the Mayor of Tennant Creek, frankly, their responses were pretty cold. They were a bit shamed that here was a measure designed to take it off the streets, out of sight, out of mind.
What that meant that was that 2 km out of town over the red sand dune, that is where the binge drinking was taking place at the same levels that it had been occurring before that legislation came into place. However, more dangerous and more concerning from that, was that they were out of sight and mind of the police and health professionals. If there was someone raped or there was someone bashed half to death, no one knew. No one knew and no one cared. To their credit - and I felt very proud to be a Territorian in this room during this presentation - one after the other Territory speakers said: ‘Not too keen on that’. They asked what happens to the people. At the local government level in the Territory, there was a concern for the victims of alcohol and what happens to them, which is not picked up in the Port Augusta experience.
I am saying that we are aware of the implications and where this might head. There is a long way to go on this, let me assure you - a long way to go. We are rewriting the entire Liquor Act as I speak. That is a process of work that will take 18 months ...
Mrs Braham: Do not create another problem by doing it, though.
Mr STIRLING: No. We need to have measures in place that we know will work today, but we have to be proactive in responses to where that might lead us. For example, if I was to jump up today and say: ‘That is it! No more, four or five litres casks, off the shelf, none in the Territory to be sold. Get rid of those casks!’ I do not have the power. The government have given me enormous powers under these bills …
Ms Carney: The Speaker has given you a lot of latitude to answer a very short question.
Mr STIRLING: … that have come through. If I said no more four and five litre casks, what happens if there is a substitution immediately to bottled port? Instead of taking the cardboard four and five litre Riesling or Moselle casks out the door, they take two or three glass bottles of port? You then have potential for dangerous litter if the bottle gets broken. You have potential for dangerous weapons in people’s hands.
We are mindful of trying to second guess where these things go. Your question is a legitimate one, and it is one that we will continue to give our consideration to.
Mr ACTING SPEAKER: Members, I heard the Leader of the Opposition interject that it was a long answer and I am inclined to agree with her.
Mr Stirling: Well, it was a complex issue.
Mr ACTING SPEAKER: It was a complex issue, but I ask ministers when responding to try to be a little shorter in their answers.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016