Mr BAILEY - 1997-02-20
In January this year, the president of the Police Association, Sergeant Steve Wallace, told Territorians: `In reality, in Darwin especially, on any average shift, there are no more patrols on the road in Darwin available to respond than there were in 1976'. I point out that, since 1976, the population of Darwin has doubled. The Chief Minister has refused to support Territory Labor's call for an additional 100 police to combat crime in the Territory. Will he now admit that his refusal to support that call means that the people of Darwin are not adequately protected from criminals and criminal activity?
Mr Ah Kit: A very good question.
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, it is a very good question, to pick up the interjection from the member for Arnhem. If one comes back to the facts, and I am sure Territorians would be very interested in the facts ...
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Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STONE: What is the point? Why don't they want people listening to the broadcast to hear the answer? Do they feel that they can gain some political advantage by talking over the top of me? People are interested in this, and they should know that their government is vitally concerned about these law-and-order issues.
The Leader of the Opposition this morning quoted at length from the recommendations of the McAulay/Bowe review. A number of members opposite asked if those recommendations had been implemented. I remind members and people listening to this broadcast that it was the recommendation of the McAulay/Bowe review to achieve the authorised establishment of 775 sworn members. Not only have we achieved the 775 members, and that review was endorsed at the time ...
Mr Ah Kit: The question to be answered is whether Steve Wallace is wrong. Is he a liar?
Mr STONE: The member for Arnhem can interject all he wants. People listening to this broadcast are interested in the facts of ...
Mr Bailey: Answer the question. Don't read your prepared statement.
Mr STONE: I do not have a prepared statement. I do have the facts, and I am trying to answer your question. If the member for Wanguri would be quiet, we might get the answer on the public record so that Territorians know the facts.
When the McAulay/Bowe review was done, the Labor opposition supported it. It supported an establishment level of 775. Is that correct? That was its position, and that was our position. We have done that. We have done better because we have taken the establishment up to 779. In fact, we have a greater range of people now in the service than we have ever had before. That includes police who are on general duties, Aboriginal community police officers and police auxiliaries. Mr Wallace said on radio that, in his assessment, there were as many people on patrol as there were in 1976. What members opposite do not tell Territorians is that, in fact, we have more police than we have ever had in our history and that they are doing many different things. Does the member seriously put the proposition that policing is 100% about police officers sitting in cars, driving around the suburbs? Is that his view? If it is, he is wrong. The demands on police today are far-ranging. They range from domestic violence to ...
Mr Stirling: That is why you need more.
Mr STONE: Are you interested in the answer or not? Just listen and you will learn something today about how ill-informed you are in terms of what we do in relation to police resources. The community expects more of police today. They are involved in domestic violence programs. There is the DARE program, community policing, school-based constables - a whole range of activities. Policing is not reflected simply in how many police are
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seen driving around the streets. There are 41 police, for example, in communications. That is where Mr Wallace works. There is an argument that that is an area that could be civilianised so that those 41 police positions could be used on the streets or in other areas of `shop front' policing, as some might call it.
The question is very timely. Recently, there was an inquiry, chaired by the Industries Commission chairman, on government service provision. Its report was brought down on 14 February. It had this to say: `The Northern Territory has the highest expenditure on police services per head of population at $433 per person. By comparison, Tasmania has the lowest in Australia at $160'. That is a huge disparity.
Mr Bailey interjecting.
Mr STONE: We also have the highest number of John Baileys per head of population. I have not finished the answer.
I know that those listening will be interested in this. In terms of what we spend on policing and the number of police that we have, it is too simplistic to talk only in the terms of the member's question. Let us look at the actual expenditure over the past 3 years. In 1994-95, expenditure was $77.4m, an increase of 12.4% over the previous year. In 1995-96, expenditure was $88m, a 13.6% increase over the previous year. I hope members opposite are following this because they will see the real commitment of this CLP government to ensuring that police are properly resourced. In 1996-97, the current budget figure is $94m, a further increase of 6.8%. Let us dispel the myth that this government has somehow decreased police resources.
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STONE: The member for Nhulunbuy obviously does not like the answer. He is getting pretty excited because he realises the sort of misinformation ...
Mr Stirling: They have to go on leave for 6 months. They have to take it or lose it.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!. Member for Nhulunbuy, if you continue to talk over the top of me when I call for order, I will warn you.
Mr STONE: To summarise for the benefit of the people who are interested in this topic, as all members on this side are ...
Mr Ah Kit: And this side.
Mr Bailey: That is why we are asking questions.
Mr STONE: What do you mean - I am not answering the question? I am providing you with the most detailed information you have ever had in this Chamber.
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A question was asked about the McAulay/Bowe review. It recommended an establishment of 775 members. Every member of this Chamber supported that. We have not only lived up to the 775, but have exceeded it. We now spend $94m on the police out of a total budget of $1500m. Anyone listening to this broadcast can do their own arithmetic. $94m is spent on our police force. No wonder we had such a good report card from the government service-provision inquiry. The Territory has the highest expenditure on police services per head of population. We also have more police per head of population than anywhere else in Australia. I accept that we have special needs because of the Territory's vast area of 1.3 million square kilometres. However, the reality is - and you cannot get away from it - that we have the most police per head of population. We spend more money on policing than any other place in Australia. There have been significant budget increases in the order of 12%, 13% and 6% to ensure the police are properly resourced.
Members opposite take the simplistic approach that, because they cannot see more police on patrol, police are not doing their job or they are under-resourced. That is simply not true. Police are doing more things today than they ever did in 1976. There was no domestic violence program in 1976. What are members opposite advocating? Are they saying that police should not be involved in that area? Is the Labor Party saying that we should not have school-based constables?
Let me conclude on this note. Do members opposite believe that, as Minister for Police, I should be out at the Berrimah centre telling the Commissioner of Police how to utilise those resources? Do they believe that there should be that sort of political interference and that the minister should stand over the commissioner and say: `It would look good if we could have some more patrols. Put more patrols on the street. Forget about the domestic violence. Get rid of that school-based constable scheme'? Of course not! I do not believe that, even with their depth of cynicism, members opposite think that should happen in the Territory. We have appointed a police commissioner. We have resourced his service adequately and fully. We have brought his staffing back up to where we said we would take it. We have done all of that.
That is the most comprehensive answer that the member for Wanguri has ever had on police matters. If he can pull that apart, let him go ahead.
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Mr Ah Kit: A very good question.
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, it is a very good question, to pick up the interjection from the member for Arnhem. If one comes back to the facts, and I am sure Territorians would be very interested in the facts ...
Page 1927
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STONE: What is the point? Why don't they want people listening to the broadcast to hear the answer? Do they feel that they can gain some political advantage by talking over the top of me? People are interested in this, and they should know that their government is vitally concerned about these law-and-order issues.
The Leader of the Opposition this morning quoted at length from the recommendations of the McAulay/Bowe review. A number of members opposite asked if those recommendations had been implemented. I remind members and people listening to this broadcast that it was the recommendation of the McAulay/Bowe review to achieve the authorised establishment of 775 sworn members. Not only have we achieved the 775 members, and that review was endorsed at the time ...
Mr Ah Kit: The question to be answered is whether Steve Wallace is wrong. Is he a liar?
Mr STONE: The member for Arnhem can interject all he wants. People listening to this broadcast are interested in the facts of ...
Mr Bailey: Answer the question. Don't read your prepared statement.
Mr STONE: I do not have a prepared statement. I do have the facts, and I am trying to answer your question. If the member for Wanguri would be quiet, we might get the answer on the public record so that Territorians know the facts.
When the McAulay/Bowe review was done, the Labor opposition supported it. It supported an establishment level of 775. Is that correct? That was its position, and that was our position. We have done that. We have done better because we have taken the establishment up to 779. In fact, we have a greater range of people now in the service than we have ever had before. That includes police who are on general duties, Aboriginal community police officers and police auxiliaries. Mr Wallace said on radio that, in his assessment, there were as many people on patrol as there were in 1976. What members opposite do not tell Territorians is that, in fact, we have more police than we have ever had in our history and that they are doing many different things. Does the member seriously put the proposition that policing is 100% about police officers sitting in cars, driving around the suburbs? Is that his view? If it is, he is wrong. The demands on police today are far-ranging. They range from domestic violence to ...
Mr Stirling: That is why you need more.
Mr STONE: Are you interested in the answer or not? Just listen and you will learn something today about how ill-informed you are in terms of what we do in relation to police resources. The community expects more of police today. They are involved in domestic violence programs. There is the DARE program, community policing, school-based constables - a whole range of activities. Policing is not reflected simply in how many police are
Page 1928
seen driving around the streets. There are 41 police, for example, in communications. That is where Mr Wallace works. There is an argument that that is an area that could be civilianised so that those 41 police positions could be used on the streets or in other areas of `shop front' policing, as some might call it.
The question is very timely. Recently, there was an inquiry, chaired by the Industries Commission chairman, on government service provision. Its report was brought down on 14 February. It had this to say: `The Northern Territory has the highest expenditure on police services per head of population at $433 per person. By comparison, Tasmania has the lowest in Australia at $160'. That is a huge disparity.
Mr Bailey interjecting.
Mr STONE: We also have the highest number of John Baileys per head of population. I have not finished the answer.
I know that those listening will be interested in this. In terms of what we spend on policing and the number of police that we have, it is too simplistic to talk only in the terms of the member's question. Let us look at the actual expenditure over the past 3 years. In 1994-95, expenditure was $77.4m, an increase of 12.4% over the previous year. In 1995-96, expenditure was $88m, a 13.6% increase over the previous year. I hope members opposite are following this because they will see the real commitment of this CLP government to ensuring that police are properly resourced. In 1996-97, the current budget figure is $94m, a further increase of 6.8%. Let us dispel the myth that this government has somehow decreased police resources.
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STONE: The member for Nhulunbuy obviously does not like the answer. He is getting pretty excited because he realises the sort of misinformation ...
Mr Stirling: They have to go on leave for 6 months. They have to take it or lose it.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!. Member for Nhulunbuy, if you continue to talk over the top of me when I call for order, I will warn you.
Mr STONE: To summarise for the benefit of the people who are interested in this topic, as all members on this side are ...
Mr Ah Kit: And this side.
Mr Bailey: That is why we are asking questions.
Mr STONE: What do you mean - I am not answering the question? I am providing you with the most detailed information you have ever had in this Chamber.
Page 1929
A question was asked about the McAulay/Bowe review. It recommended an establishment of 775 members. Every member of this Chamber supported that. We have not only lived up to the 775, but have exceeded it. We now spend $94m on the police out of a total budget of $1500m. Anyone listening to this broadcast can do their own arithmetic. $94m is spent on our police force. No wonder we had such a good report card from the government service-provision inquiry. The Territory has the highest expenditure on police services per head of population. We also have more police per head of population than anywhere else in Australia. I accept that we have special needs because of the Territory's vast area of 1.3 million square kilometres. However, the reality is - and you cannot get away from it - that we have the most police per head of population. We spend more money on policing than any other place in Australia. There have been significant budget increases in the order of 12%, 13% and 6% to ensure the police are properly resourced.
Members opposite take the simplistic approach that, because they cannot see more police on patrol, police are not doing their job or they are under-resourced. That is simply not true. Police are doing more things today than they ever did in 1976. There was no domestic violence program in 1976. What are members opposite advocating? Are they saying that police should not be involved in that area? Is the Labor Party saying that we should not have school-based constables?
Let me conclude on this note. Do members opposite believe that, as Minister for Police, I should be out at the Berrimah centre telling the Commissioner of Police how to utilise those resources? Do they believe that there should be that sort of political interference and that the minister should stand over the commissioner and say: `It would look good if we could have some more patrols. Put more patrols on the street. Forget about the domestic violence. Get rid of that school-based constable scheme'? Of course not! I do not believe that, even with their depth of cynicism, members opposite think that should happen in the Territory. We have appointed a police commissioner. We have resourced his service adequately and fully. We have brought his staffing back up to where we said we would take it. We have done all of that.
That is the most comprehensive answer that the member for Wanguri has ever had on police matters. If he can pull that apart, let him go ahead.
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Last updated: 09 Aug 2016