Mr SETTER - 1995-10-19
In last night's adjournment debate, the member for Fannie Bay demonstrated her ignorance of the heritage declaration process by making a number of misleading assertions. Given the potential for subsequent confusion in the community, will the minister correct those misleading assertions for the benefit of members?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, it is a sad reflection on members opposite ...
Mr Ede: This is Question Time.
Mr REED: It is Question Time, and it is an appropriate time ...
Mr Ede: It is a dorothy dixer.
Mr REED: It is not a dorothy dixer. It is an appropriate time to advise Territorians of the correct processes given that the member for Fannie Bay misled Territorians last night in relation to a number of matters pertaining to heritage listing. Indeed, given the statements she made, I believe she shirked her responsibility or commitment. The member for Fannie Bay suggested last night that I had stated that consideration of the attitude of the owners of a building was one of the criteria for listing on the heritage register of places in the Northern Territory. I did not say that.
Ms Martin: It is on the public record.
Mr REED: If it is on the public record, show it to me.
What I said was that, in considering the nomination of a place that has been recommended for listing on the heritage register, it is appropriate to take into account the views of the owners. Indeed, the legislation requires that that be done. I said also that, in that process - and this might be what the member has misunderstood - of considering nominations for the register, there would be people who would be unhappy at the end of the day. If the owner of the building does not want it to be registered ...
Mr Bailey: That is exactly what she said.
Ms Martin: It is a heritage criterion.
Mr REED: You are very rude. People would like to hear the facts rather than what they heard from the member for Fannie Bay last night.
Mr Bailey: You are very rude not to answer questions after they have been put to you for 5 years.
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Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: People who own buildings have the right to have a say in relation to their asset and indeed what might be their life savings.
Ms Martin: That is exactly what I said.
Mr REED: They might be opposed to listing for all sorts of reasons. On the other hand, as I indicated, people who are keen to see a building listed would be upset if it were not listed. Those are issues that have to be finely balanced when these matters are considered.
Ms Martin: Show me where I said that.
Mr REED: The member for Fannie Bay said also last night ...
Ms Martin: Show me!
Mr REED: ... that 42 places that were advertised in the newspaper last week were listed in the heritage register. They have not been listed. The member for Fannie Bay does not understand the process. They have been nominated and they are under consideration for listing. She can sit there and shake her head ...
Ms Martin: You cited the heritage list.
Mr REED: ... but she has the responsibility to explain to Territorians what the processes are. If she misleads them by stating the legislation incorrectly, then I am sorry but it is my responsibility to tell Territorians the real facts, and that she got it wrong.
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr REED: Those places have not been listed.
Mr Bailey: There was a list in the newspaper of proposed listings.
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: They have been nominated.
Ms Martin: Will you place an interim conservation order on those 42 buildings?
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will have an opportunity to ask another question if she wishes.
Mr Bailey: But not respond.
Mr REED: I will respond, because that was another ...
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Mr Bailey: No, I mean that we cannot respond. You can, but we can only ask a question.
Mr REED: No, I will respond. I am responding now. The member for Fannie Bay asked whether I would place an interim protection order over the 42 buildings. I will answer her question in a minute.
The fact is that these 42 buildings have not been listed. They are under consideration and assessment. As I have explained to the House during these sittings, the Heritage Advisory Council is considering those matters, having received information from the consultant. In turn, the Heritage Advisory Council, which is a professional group, will make recommendations to me and, in turn, I will take those to the government. As regards the ...
Mr Stirling: You just told her she was right.
Mr Ede: Yes, you were right, Clare.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: As regards interim listing of these buildings, I will not do that. The 42 buildings that have been nominated and that are under consideration currently are not thought to be under any threat. The owners of those buildings have rights. If members opposite want to trample on the rights of people who own buildings, and remove their ability to express their views fully ...
Mr Bailey: No.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: ... in the process, as is required under the legislation, they should tell them that. However, this government will not do that. It will follow the legislation.
Another point the member for Fannie Bay made was that more buildings and sites should be listed and considered for nomination. I understand that, by `listed', she means generally that they have been added to the heritage list already, although I think she means `nominated'. If the member for Fannie Bay wants more buildings to be considered for addition to the heritage register ...
Members interjecting.
Mr REED: This is a joke to members opposite. They are not serious about these issues. They raise them but, when they receive the information, they laugh it all off.
I will send across to the member for Fannie Bay the form on which she can nominate any building she wants to be considered for heritage listing. This is not only a matter for the government and for people in the community. The member for Fannie Bay had the intestinal
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fortitude to stand up here last night in this House and identify a number of buildings that she would like to see listed on the heritage register.
Ms Martin: Thank you.
Mr REED: If she has a commitment to the heritage of the Northern Territory, there is a nomination form on which she can nominate those buildings. Then the member for Fannie Bay can follow the process through. I will be interested to see whether she is committed to her rhetoric. She has the opportunity to do that now. The legislation says: `A person may, on the approved form' - which she has now - `apply to the council to have a place in the Territory or object declared to be a heritage place or heritage object, and a copy of the application shall be provided by the council'. This will be the test. We will see whether the member for Fannie Bay has the intestinal fortitude to carry through her rhetoric and nominate the buildings which concern her so.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: Also for her benefit, I provide the member with a copy of the heritage assessment criteria and a copy of the act. If she intends to quote it, she should do so correctly and not mislead the people of the Northern Territory. If she intends to act responsibly as shadow spokesman for heritage and matters of environment, she should be fully aware of what she is doing, and convey correctly to Territorians the relevant laws and the right processes. I hope that she will take the opportunity to nominate the buildings to which she referred last night.
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ANSWER
Mr Speaker, it is a sad reflection on members opposite ...
Mr Ede: This is Question Time.
Mr REED: It is Question Time, and it is an appropriate time ...
Mr Ede: It is a dorothy dixer.
Mr REED: It is not a dorothy dixer. It is an appropriate time to advise Territorians of the correct processes given that the member for Fannie Bay misled Territorians last night in relation to a number of matters pertaining to heritage listing. Indeed, given the statements she made, I believe she shirked her responsibility or commitment. The member for Fannie Bay suggested last night that I had stated that consideration of the attitude of the owners of a building was one of the criteria for listing on the heritage register of places in the Northern Territory. I did not say that.
Ms Martin: It is on the public record.
Mr REED: If it is on the public record, show it to me.
What I said was that, in considering the nomination of a place that has been recommended for listing on the heritage register, it is appropriate to take into account the views of the owners. Indeed, the legislation requires that that be done. I said also that, in that process - and this might be what the member has misunderstood - of considering nominations for the register, there would be people who would be unhappy at the end of the day. If the owner of the building does not want it to be registered ...
Mr Bailey: That is exactly what she said.
Ms Martin: It is a heritage criterion.
Mr REED: You are very rude. People would like to hear the facts rather than what they heard from the member for Fannie Bay last night.
Mr Bailey: You are very rude not to answer questions after they have been put to you for 5 years.
Page 925
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: People who own buildings have the right to have a say in relation to their asset and indeed what might be their life savings.
Ms Martin: That is exactly what I said.
Mr REED: They might be opposed to listing for all sorts of reasons. On the other hand, as I indicated, people who are keen to see a building listed would be upset if it were not listed. Those are issues that have to be finely balanced when these matters are considered.
Ms Martin: Show me where I said that.
Mr REED: The member for Fannie Bay said also last night ...
Ms Martin: Show me!
Mr REED: ... that 42 places that were advertised in the newspaper last week were listed in the heritage register. They have not been listed. The member for Fannie Bay does not understand the process. They have been nominated and they are under consideration for listing. She can sit there and shake her head ...
Ms Martin: You cited the heritage list.
Mr REED: ... but she has the responsibility to explain to Territorians what the processes are. If she misleads them by stating the legislation incorrectly, then I am sorry but it is my responsibility to tell Territorians the real facts, and that she got it wrong.
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr REED: Those places have not been listed.
Mr Bailey: There was a list in the newspaper of proposed listings.
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: They have been nominated.
Ms Martin: Will you place an interim conservation order on those 42 buildings?
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will have an opportunity to ask another question if she wishes.
Mr Bailey: But not respond.
Mr REED: I will respond, because that was another ...
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Mr Bailey: No, I mean that we cannot respond. You can, but we can only ask a question.
Mr REED: No, I will respond. I am responding now. The member for Fannie Bay asked whether I would place an interim protection order over the 42 buildings. I will answer her question in a minute.
The fact is that these 42 buildings have not been listed. They are under consideration and assessment. As I have explained to the House during these sittings, the Heritage Advisory Council is considering those matters, having received information from the consultant. In turn, the Heritage Advisory Council, which is a professional group, will make recommendations to me and, in turn, I will take those to the government. As regards the ...
Mr Stirling: You just told her she was right.
Mr Ede: Yes, you were right, Clare.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: As regards interim listing of these buildings, I will not do that. The 42 buildings that have been nominated and that are under consideration currently are not thought to be under any threat. The owners of those buildings have rights. If members opposite want to trample on the rights of people who own buildings, and remove their ability to express their views fully ...
Mr Bailey: No.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: ... in the process, as is required under the legislation, they should tell them that. However, this government will not do that. It will follow the legislation.
Another point the member for Fannie Bay made was that more buildings and sites should be listed and considered for nomination. I understand that, by `listed', she means generally that they have been added to the heritage list already, although I think she means `nominated'. If the member for Fannie Bay wants more buildings to be considered for addition to the heritage register ...
Members interjecting.
Mr REED: This is a joke to members opposite. They are not serious about these issues. They raise them but, when they receive the information, they laugh it all off.
I will send across to the member for Fannie Bay the form on which she can nominate any building she wants to be considered for heritage listing. This is not only a matter for the government and for people in the community. The member for Fannie Bay had the intestinal
Page 927
fortitude to stand up here last night in this House and identify a number of buildings that she would like to see listed on the heritage register.
Ms Martin: Thank you.
Mr REED: If she has a commitment to the heritage of the Northern Territory, there is a nomination form on which she can nominate those buildings. Then the member for Fannie Bay can follow the process through. I will be interested to see whether she is committed to her rhetoric. She has the opportunity to do that now. The legislation says: `A person may, on the approved form' - which she has now - `apply to the council to have a place in the Territory or object declared to be a heritage place or heritage object, and a copy of the application shall be provided by the council'. This will be the test. We will see whether the member for Fannie Bay has the intestinal fortitude to carry through her rhetoric and nominate the buildings which concern her so.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr REED: Also for her benefit, I provide the member with a copy of the heritage assessment criteria and a copy of the act. If she intends to quote it, she should do so correctly and not mislead the people of the Northern Territory. If she intends to act responsibly as shadow spokesman for heritage and matters of environment, she should be fully aware of what she is doing, and convey correctly to Territorians the relevant laws and the right processes. I hope that she will take the opportunity to nominate the buildings to which she referred last night.
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Last updated: 09 Aug 2016