Mr EDE - 1995-08-22
Last week, the Chief Minister surprised many of us with his call to criminalise the burning of flags. I believe most of us agree with President Ramos who said that these were freedoms that typified countries like his and ours. We thought that wiser heads had prevailed until we heard the Minister for Asian Relations, Trade and Industry and now the Attorney-General make it clear that the CLP government intends to act on this matter. How far will the Chief Minister go with this? Will it simply cover our national flag and all the flags covered by the Flag and Emblem Act, which includes some 23 flags such as the Customs flag and the flags of all the state governors? Will it cover all overseas flags, including military and presidential flags, royal standards and the like? Will it include any object displaying one of these flags? Does the Chief Minister give any weight to the argument that this move is totally counterproductive? Whilst we may all deplore the burning of flags, making it a criminal offence will encourage certain elements to indulge in the activity and, as I say, it will be totally counterproductive.
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, it is quite clear that the Leader of the Opposition's federal colleagues, Evans, Ray and Beazley, do not treat this issue in the trivial way that he does. The Leader of the Opposition should be mindful of the fact that literally hundreds of jobs and tens of millions of export dollars are at risk because of the irresponsible actions of a few. It is all very well for the Leader of the Opposition to stand up and say that President Ramos put a particular point of view. Of course he did. He is in someone else's country and it would not ...
Mr Ede: He does it in his own country.
Mr STONE: I have just returned from Sydney where I was with President Ramos. The difficulty for the Leader of the Opposition is that he does not understand that, when a head of state or indeed a minister visits another country, he will not put a point of view that is contrary to that of the government of the day. In this case, the Keating government has made it clear that it will not move to make it an offence at this time.
I was interviewed at some length on ABC radio in Alice Springs yesterday on this very issue. I made the point that I believe that most right-thinking Territorians and Australians are appalled by what they are seeing. They would be appalled if they saw the Australian flag being burned. Territorians would be appalled if they saw their flag being burned. Why is it that the Leader of the Opposition believes somehow that it is okay to go down a path that would not see flags, including even our own Territory flag, protected?
Professor Stephen FitzGerald raised this matter on Friday evening in Sydney. He is a man I would think would enjoy the respect of members on both sides of the Chamber. He was the Labor-appointed first Australian Ambassador to Beijing. He asked why politicians in this country do not have the backbone to face up to this issue. The simple facts are that there are certain parameters within any democracy, our own included. Democracy does not mean carte blanche. It does not mean people can do absolutely anything they want. Far from it. Even in
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the great democracies of Western Europe and North America, people do not go about burning the symbols of state. Likewise, in the Territory ...
Mr Bailey: It is not illegal in the United States.
Mr STONE: The member for Wanguri says that it is not illegal in the United States, He might like to recheck his facts on that. Even in those great democracies, people cannot burn their national flags nor the flags of other countries. That should be the case here too.
I am absolutely amazed, although I should not be the least surprised, that the Leader of the Opposition does not have the political courage to support his colleagues, in particular Hon Gareth Evans, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, in saying that enough is enough. It has to stop.
Mr Ede: He did not say criminalise it, and you know it.
Mr STONE: If that means making it an offence, then this government will examine the proposal.
There is another matter that the Leader of the Opposition might like to ponder. According to the preliminary advice given to me this morning, it appears that Australia is a signatory to an international agreement which requires that national symbols, such as flags, be protected. The only way to protect them is to make it an offence to burn them. I am surprised that the Leader of the Opposition has not been prepared to get to his feet and support Northern Territory exporters and all Territorians who have forged links with Indonesia, instead of wimping out on the issue in the typical way that the opposition wimps out on everything.
Mr Ede: They want the Australian way of life, and freedoms - freedoms that we value. You want to put everyone in jail.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STONE: I suppose he reckons that I pinched his idea.
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ANSWER
Mr Speaker, it is quite clear that the Leader of the Opposition's federal colleagues, Evans, Ray and Beazley, do not treat this issue in the trivial way that he does. The Leader of the Opposition should be mindful of the fact that literally hundreds of jobs and tens of millions of export dollars are at risk because of the irresponsible actions of a few. It is all very well for the Leader of the Opposition to stand up and say that President Ramos put a particular point of view. Of course he did. He is in someone else's country and it would not ...
Mr Ede: He does it in his own country.
Mr STONE: I have just returned from Sydney where I was with President Ramos. The difficulty for the Leader of the Opposition is that he does not understand that, when a head of state or indeed a minister visits another country, he will not put a point of view that is contrary to that of the government of the day. In this case, the Keating government has made it clear that it will not move to make it an offence at this time.
I was interviewed at some length on ABC radio in Alice Springs yesterday on this very issue. I made the point that I believe that most right-thinking Territorians and Australians are appalled by what they are seeing. They would be appalled if they saw the Australian flag being burned. Territorians would be appalled if they saw their flag being burned. Why is it that the Leader of the Opposition believes somehow that it is okay to go down a path that would not see flags, including even our own Territory flag, protected?
Professor Stephen FitzGerald raised this matter on Friday evening in Sydney. He is a man I would think would enjoy the respect of members on both sides of the Chamber. He was the Labor-appointed first Australian Ambassador to Beijing. He asked why politicians in this country do not have the backbone to face up to this issue. The simple facts are that there are certain parameters within any democracy, our own included. Democracy does not mean carte blanche. It does not mean people can do absolutely anything they want. Far from it. Even in
Page 739
the great democracies of Western Europe and North America, people do not go about burning the symbols of state. Likewise, in the Territory ...
Mr Bailey: It is not illegal in the United States.
Mr STONE: The member for Wanguri says that it is not illegal in the United States, He might like to recheck his facts on that. Even in those great democracies, people cannot burn their national flags nor the flags of other countries. That should be the case here too.
I am absolutely amazed, although I should not be the least surprised, that the Leader of the Opposition does not have the political courage to support his colleagues, in particular Hon Gareth Evans, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, in saying that enough is enough. It has to stop.
Mr Ede: He did not say criminalise it, and you know it.
Mr STONE: If that means making it an offence, then this government will examine the proposal.
There is another matter that the Leader of the Opposition might like to ponder. According to the preliminary advice given to me this morning, it appears that Australia is a signatory to an international agreement which requires that national symbols, such as flags, be protected. The only way to protect them is to make it an offence to burn them. I am surprised that the Leader of the Opposition has not been prepared to get to his feet and support Northern Territory exporters and all Territorians who have forged links with Indonesia, instead of wimping out on the issue in the typical way that the opposition wimps out on everything.
Mr Ede: They want the Australian way of life, and freedoms - freedoms that we value. You want to put everyone in jail.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STONE: I suppose he reckons that I pinched his idea.
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Last updated: 09 Aug 2016