Mr BONSON - 2001-10-24
Chief Minister, this morning you gave notice of the introduction of the fiscal integrity bill. Can you advise this parliament of the reasons behind your decision to introduce this bill?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Millner for this very important question. The Fiscal Integrity and Transparency Bill was one that was recommended by Professor Percy Allan when his report showed that our deficit, rather than being the forward estimate that the former Treasurer said ...
Mr REED: A point of order, Madam Speaker! This question relates to a matter on the Notice Paper. It does preempt debate and, if it does not preempt debate, it certainly gets into the arena of tedious repetition. There is more important business that we can attend to. Indeed, this particular bill which the minister has been asked to comment on, will be debated in full at a future time.
Mr STIRLING: Madam Speaker, just speaking to the point of order. If there is a question of tedious repetition in here it is the points of order being raised by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. There is no point of order. I have sat in this House for ten years in opposition and they were never upheld and I ask the precedent be supported.
Madam SPEAKER: I think I will make that ruling, thank you. Leader of Government Business, resume your seat. Would you all settle down. You are very twitchy this afternoon and I do not want members raising points of order all the time, so, just relax. Chief Minister, you need to understand when you are preparing questions that you cannot anticipate debate. You must take due care not to anticipate debate of things on the Notice Paper, so when you are answering this question keep that in mind. I will allow the question but keep that in mind for future questions.
Ms MARTIN: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is important in answering a question about this Fiscal Integrity and Transparency Bill to explain some of the background of why we have it, which is why I refer to the report done by Professor Percy Allan into the Territory’s budget. I refer to the fact that the previous government told us, told Territorians, $12m was going to be the deficit for the current financial year. It was only when this government came in to power that we found the Under Treasurer and Treasury suddenly telling us, within moments of that May budget, that the deficit was more likely going to be over $100m.
Of course, we got an independent arbiter in - the second opinion - to determine what, in fact, was the underlying deficit. We now know it is $107m and, very sadly, rising. It is very important that we do not have, ever, a repetition of Treasurers sitting in their offices writing the bottom line of budgets, because that was clearly said by Professor Allan. The former Treasurer sat in his office and determined the bottom-line figures of the budget and ignored the reality of what, in fact, the deficit was - ignored the reality of what the actuals were in the budget - and simply made them up.
We have looked very carefully at the report from Percy Allan, when he recommended that we needed a bill like this to stop that deception, to stop that misrepresentation. We have to establish, in our budgets, trust and integrity for Territorians, and there has not been. The revelations we have seen have certainly undermined the trust of Territorians in the budget process.
The previous government had simply come to see the budget as a press release for their election purposes – simply a press release for their election purposes rather than the real bottom line to spell out for Territorians where we were financially and how we would move to the future. We saw that the Treasurer, and the government, ignored advice from their departments. A couple of examples - the police, $4.5m underfunded. A critical agency, $4.5m underfunded. And, as we have heard, land sales: ‘I think we will get $9m’. What was the real figure? $3m. They old an utter deception about what the deficit was going to be.
The Treasurer for rubbery figures told us that for last financial year he had a surplus of $1m. What did we see yesterday with the Treasurer’s Annual Financial Report - $140m. No wonder we need a bill to establish integrity and transparency in our fiscal processes. The worst thing is that it was done year after year. If you look at the Allan report, it says that we were headed for - in four years time if this mob had been allowed to continue - a liability of $3.3bn, and that includes debt and unfunded employer liabilities. By June 2005, you would have bequeathed Territorians $3.3bn worth of debt, and this would have been 146% of our revenue.
This Fiscal Integrity and Transparency Bill is very important so that the business community and our community, generally, can rely on the budget to make plans, and can judge the fiscal management of government. The previous government was so scared of that judgment of the community - particularly the business community - that it deceived parliament and Territorians to cover up its ineptitude. This bill will ensure that, in future, we will know that the budget presented to this parliament is a true and credible document. It will not be full of rubbery figures, and it will give back to Territorians the trust they should have in their parliament.
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Millner for this very important question. The Fiscal Integrity and Transparency Bill was one that was recommended by Professor Percy Allan when his report showed that our deficit, rather than being the forward estimate that the former Treasurer said ...
Mr REED: A point of order, Madam Speaker! This question relates to a matter on the Notice Paper. It does preempt debate and, if it does not preempt debate, it certainly gets into the arena of tedious repetition. There is more important business that we can attend to. Indeed, this particular bill which the minister has been asked to comment on, will be debated in full at a future time.
Mr STIRLING: Madam Speaker, just speaking to the point of order. If there is a question of tedious repetition in here it is the points of order being raised by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. There is no point of order. I have sat in this House for ten years in opposition and they were never upheld and I ask the precedent be supported.
Madam SPEAKER: I think I will make that ruling, thank you. Leader of Government Business, resume your seat. Would you all settle down. You are very twitchy this afternoon and I do not want members raising points of order all the time, so, just relax. Chief Minister, you need to understand when you are preparing questions that you cannot anticipate debate. You must take due care not to anticipate debate of things on the Notice Paper, so when you are answering this question keep that in mind. I will allow the question but keep that in mind for future questions.
Ms MARTIN: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is important in answering a question about this Fiscal Integrity and Transparency Bill to explain some of the background of why we have it, which is why I refer to the report done by Professor Percy Allan into the Territory’s budget. I refer to the fact that the previous government told us, told Territorians, $12m was going to be the deficit for the current financial year. It was only when this government came in to power that we found the Under Treasurer and Treasury suddenly telling us, within moments of that May budget, that the deficit was more likely going to be over $100m.
Of course, we got an independent arbiter in - the second opinion - to determine what, in fact, was the underlying deficit. We now know it is $107m and, very sadly, rising. It is very important that we do not have, ever, a repetition of Treasurers sitting in their offices writing the bottom line of budgets, because that was clearly said by Professor Allan. The former Treasurer sat in his office and determined the bottom-line figures of the budget and ignored the reality of what, in fact, the deficit was - ignored the reality of what the actuals were in the budget - and simply made them up.
We have looked very carefully at the report from Percy Allan, when he recommended that we needed a bill like this to stop that deception, to stop that misrepresentation. We have to establish, in our budgets, trust and integrity for Territorians, and there has not been. The revelations we have seen have certainly undermined the trust of Territorians in the budget process.
The previous government had simply come to see the budget as a press release for their election purposes – simply a press release for their election purposes rather than the real bottom line to spell out for Territorians where we were financially and how we would move to the future. We saw that the Treasurer, and the government, ignored advice from their departments. A couple of examples - the police, $4.5m underfunded. A critical agency, $4.5m underfunded. And, as we have heard, land sales: ‘I think we will get $9m’. What was the real figure? $3m. They old an utter deception about what the deficit was going to be.
The Treasurer for rubbery figures told us that for last financial year he had a surplus of $1m. What did we see yesterday with the Treasurer’s Annual Financial Report - $140m. No wonder we need a bill to establish integrity and transparency in our fiscal processes. The worst thing is that it was done year after year. If you look at the Allan report, it says that we were headed for - in four years time if this mob had been allowed to continue - a liability of $3.3bn, and that includes debt and unfunded employer liabilities. By June 2005, you would have bequeathed Territorians $3.3bn worth of debt, and this would have been 146% of our revenue.
This Fiscal Integrity and Transparency Bill is very important so that the business community and our community, generally, can rely on the budget to make plans, and can judge the fiscal management of government. The previous government was so scared of that judgment of the community - particularly the business community - that it deceived parliament and Territorians to cover up its ineptitude. This bill will ensure that, in future, we will know that the budget presented to this parliament is a true and credible document. It will not be full of rubbery figures, and it will give back to Territorians the trust they should have in their parliament.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016