Mr LUGG - 1999-06-08
The Chief Minister has described the opposition’s approach to mandatory minimum sentencing as ‘political agony’. Labor supported mandatory sentencing from the earliest stage, but has backflipped ever since. Assuming Labor’s current position in opposing mandatory minimum sentencing holds, has the Chief Minister changed his view on federal intervention by Tasmanian Senator Bob Brown?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, the honourable member uses the words ‘political agony’. I would use the words ‘policy purgatory’. But, certainly, with regards to the Labor Party and the Leader of the Opposition’s embarrassment about mandatory sentencing policy, ‘purgatory’ and ‘extended agony’ are true words to describe the situation they’re in. Frankly, if one had a pet in the sort of agony that they are in at the moment over the mandatory sentencing policy, you’d take it out, do the right thing, and shoot it.
I refer to the policy backflips that have occurred through this party and the Leader of the Opposition since the issue of mandatory sentencing was first raised. It’s worth a little bit of hindsight and a little reflection on history to see where the Labor Party have come from with regards to mandatory sentencing.
I was the Attorney-General in August 1996 when we announced in parliament ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: It’s instructive for Territorians to get a little sense of history as to how the opposition have referred to this subject.
I introduced a bill into parliament that would provide mandatory minimum prison sentences for crimes such as car theft, criminal damage, break and entering and stealing. The shadow attorney-general at the time, Neil Bell, said in parliament during debate on the proposed law - this is the shadow attorney-general for the Labor opposition: ‘We support the introduction of mandatory jail sentencing for the limited number of offences that the minister has named’.
Mandatory minimum sentencing legislation came into effect in March 1997. In the run-up to the Northern Territory election, Maggie Hickey, the then Labor Leader, said that if it was proven to be effective, Labor would maintain mandatory sentencing. I quote: ‘If it is proved that the figures drop as a result of mandatory sentencing, then we need to have a look at that after the mandatory sentencing regime has been in. If they drop then the Labor party will retain mandatory sentencing’. She went on to say – I don’t have the direct quote but I can soon find it – that Labor said during that election campaign ‘we’ll get rid of all crime in the Northern Territory’. Now, that was a beauty. That’s akin to Bob Hawke’s statement, no child will be in poverty in Australia.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is far too much interjection and conversation across the Chamber. I would appreciate reasonable silence to hear the Chief Minister’s answer.
Mr BURKE: After a resounding defeat at the 1997 election, on 26 November 1997, following the defeat, Labor reassessed their position, claiming that the policy was unjust, and that they felt that they would strongly oppose it at every opportunity. I quote from the Leader of the Opposition at the time: ‘We’ve reassessed it. In view of what’s gone on since that mandatory sentencing regime came in, some of the injustices and anomalies that have occurred, have made it clear to everyone I think …’
Mr Bailey interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order, order! The member for Wanguri
Mr BURKE: ‘... and we’re going to oppose it and raise the issues of injustice of anomalies every time we get the opportunity’. That was in November 1997.
On 19 April 1999, I introduced the broadening of mandatory sentencing to include sexual offences while introducing limited discretionary provision for first offenders.
On 11 May 1999, Labor Senator Trish Crossin gives her support to senator Bob Brown’s move - same party and a Territory Senator. She says: ‘We would welcome the opportunity for Federal parliament to have a close look at this law and its implications, particularly in relation to juveniles.’ She then goes on to say: ‘I’m not in Canberra to defend the laws of the Northern Territory government and protect the Northern Territory government’. That’s what she said on the Morning program. She’s not in the Federal parliament to defend the laws of the Northern Territory government and protect the Northern Territory government. One might ask the question, what the hell’s she there for? She’s there to protect the wishes and aspirations of free-thinking Territorians reflected through their parliament. That’s what she’s in the Federal parliament for, and that is the sort of understanding that former Senator Bob Collins had when he was in the Federal parliament.
The same day, Labor’s Syd Stirling, the member for Nhulunbuy, said: ‘Overturning minimum mandatory sentencing was not the role of the Federal parliament’, so he’s now disagreeing with Trish Crossin. ‘The right place to hear this legislation is in the Northern Territory Assembly’, he said that on the Drive Program,
Mr Stirling: You said you would ...
Mr BURKE: ‘Of course we support overturning the law …’
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: Territorians are interested in this. ‘Of course we support overturning the law, but the place to do it and the person responsible for it is Denis Burke, Chief Minister and Attorney-General for the Northern Territory’. You got that bit right.
On 2 June 1999, our esteemed Labor leader, Clare Martin, says that she supports the amendments foreshadowed by Denis Burke on ABC Radio, and says in a very heart warming and considerate way, as only she can do: ‘We are supporting you in your moves’. The next day, however, the shadow Attorney-General, John Bailey, ignores Labor leader Clare Martin’s commitment and moves immediately when the debate was introduced to overturn the complete mandatory sentencing in it’s totality. That was the amendment he moved immediately the debate came on.
The next day when questioned on this the Labor leader, Clare Martin, explains this back flip by saying she was only ever offering ‘kind of, sort of, qualified support’.
I have said it on many occasions in this House that the Leader of the Opposition …
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the Opposition is just carrying it too far.
Mr BURKE: Mr Speaker, I’ve said on many occasions in this House that the Leader of the Opposition is a fraud. The Leader of the Opposition …
Mr BAILEY: A point of order, Mr Speaker! Quite clearly, to do that he would have had to have withdrawn them in the past. He needs to withdraw it this time. It’s unparliamentary to suggest that someone is a fraud.
Mr SPEAKER: I couldn’t rule that that’s unparliamentary. It’s been said here often enough.
Mr BAILEY: What?
Mr SPEAKER: I couldn’t rule it.
Mr BAILEY: So ‘hypocritical’ you rule on, but ‘fraud’ you don’t?
Mr SPEAKER: Does the member feel deeply offended by it?
Ms MARTIN: I do.
Mr SPEAKER: Then I would ask the Chief Minister to withdraw.
Mr BURKE: If it offends the sensitivities of the Leader of the Opposition, I withdraw. But ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: But she does set out to deliberately deceive. And I believe that I have painted that picture quite freely. The other thing I believe that needs to be recognised is that she is big on quoting leadership issues in this House. The first thing you do as a leader is make sure you have the mob with you.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: Get the mob with you, don’t be a media junkie, don’t run out there and get the grab, and then 5 minutes later your shadow attorney-general comes into the House and discounts everything you’ve said. Leadership is demonstrated in substance and is demonstrated in example ...
Ms Martin: Is that what you have?
Mr BURKE: That’s precisely what I have. But what do you expect from an opposition with no policies, that certainly doesn’t know what it stands for? The opportunity is there for them to demonstrate that. Support Senator Bob Brown. Just come out and say to Territorians that you support Senator Bob Brown in his moves. You’ll be supported by the Criminal Lawyers Association and the Bar Association of the Northern Territory ...
A member: Trish Crossin.
Mr BURKE: ... and Senator Trish Crossin. So you have a bit of support there straight off. Be clear and honest with Territorians and say that you’re absolutely against mandatory sentencing. Explain to them that your focus is on offenders, not victims. Explain to them that we have it all wrong and your moves in the federal parliaments will lead to a better government and life for Territorians, and frankly I’ll help you print the glossies.
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, the honourable member uses the words ‘political agony’. I would use the words ‘policy purgatory’. But, certainly, with regards to the Labor Party and the Leader of the Opposition’s embarrassment about mandatory sentencing policy, ‘purgatory’ and ‘extended agony’ are true words to describe the situation they’re in. Frankly, if one had a pet in the sort of agony that they are in at the moment over the mandatory sentencing policy, you’d take it out, do the right thing, and shoot it.
I refer to the policy backflips that have occurred through this party and the Leader of the Opposition since the issue of mandatory sentencing was first raised. It’s worth a little bit of hindsight and a little reflection on history to see where the Labor Party have come from with regards to mandatory sentencing.
I was the Attorney-General in August 1996 when we announced in parliament ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: It’s instructive for Territorians to get a little sense of history as to how the opposition have referred to this subject.
I introduced a bill into parliament that would provide mandatory minimum prison sentences for crimes such as car theft, criminal damage, break and entering and stealing. The shadow attorney-general at the time, Neil Bell, said in parliament during debate on the proposed law - this is the shadow attorney-general for the Labor opposition: ‘We support the introduction of mandatory jail sentencing for the limited number of offences that the minister has named’.
Mandatory minimum sentencing legislation came into effect in March 1997. In the run-up to the Northern Territory election, Maggie Hickey, the then Labor Leader, said that if it was proven to be effective, Labor would maintain mandatory sentencing. I quote: ‘If it is proved that the figures drop as a result of mandatory sentencing, then we need to have a look at that after the mandatory sentencing regime has been in. If they drop then the Labor party will retain mandatory sentencing’. She went on to say – I don’t have the direct quote but I can soon find it – that Labor said during that election campaign ‘we’ll get rid of all crime in the Northern Territory’. Now, that was a beauty. That’s akin to Bob Hawke’s statement, no child will be in poverty in Australia.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is far too much interjection and conversation across the Chamber. I would appreciate reasonable silence to hear the Chief Minister’s answer.
Mr BURKE: After a resounding defeat at the 1997 election, on 26 November 1997, following the defeat, Labor reassessed their position, claiming that the policy was unjust, and that they felt that they would strongly oppose it at every opportunity. I quote from the Leader of the Opposition at the time: ‘We’ve reassessed it. In view of what’s gone on since that mandatory sentencing regime came in, some of the injustices and anomalies that have occurred, have made it clear to everyone I think …’
Mr Bailey interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order, order! The member for Wanguri
Mr BURKE: ‘... and we’re going to oppose it and raise the issues of injustice of anomalies every time we get the opportunity’. That was in November 1997.
On 19 April 1999, I introduced the broadening of mandatory sentencing to include sexual offences while introducing limited discretionary provision for first offenders.
On 11 May 1999, Labor Senator Trish Crossin gives her support to senator Bob Brown’s move - same party and a Territory Senator. She says: ‘We would welcome the opportunity for Federal parliament to have a close look at this law and its implications, particularly in relation to juveniles.’ She then goes on to say: ‘I’m not in Canberra to defend the laws of the Northern Territory government and protect the Northern Territory government’. That’s what she said on the Morning program. She’s not in the Federal parliament to defend the laws of the Northern Territory government and protect the Northern Territory government. One might ask the question, what the hell’s she there for? She’s there to protect the wishes and aspirations of free-thinking Territorians reflected through their parliament. That’s what she’s in the Federal parliament for, and that is the sort of understanding that former Senator Bob Collins had when he was in the Federal parliament.
The same day, Labor’s Syd Stirling, the member for Nhulunbuy, said: ‘Overturning minimum mandatory sentencing was not the role of the Federal parliament’, so he’s now disagreeing with Trish Crossin. ‘The right place to hear this legislation is in the Northern Territory Assembly’, he said that on the Drive Program,
Mr Stirling: You said you would ...
Mr BURKE: ‘Of course we support overturning the law …’
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: Territorians are interested in this. ‘Of course we support overturning the law, but the place to do it and the person responsible for it is Denis Burke, Chief Minister and Attorney-General for the Northern Territory’. You got that bit right.
On 2 June 1999, our esteemed Labor leader, Clare Martin, says that she supports the amendments foreshadowed by Denis Burke on ABC Radio, and says in a very heart warming and considerate way, as only she can do: ‘We are supporting you in your moves’. The next day, however, the shadow Attorney-General, John Bailey, ignores Labor leader Clare Martin’s commitment and moves immediately when the debate was introduced to overturn the complete mandatory sentencing in it’s totality. That was the amendment he moved immediately the debate came on.
The next day when questioned on this the Labor leader, Clare Martin, explains this back flip by saying she was only ever offering ‘kind of, sort of, qualified support’.
I have said it on many occasions in this House that the Leader of the Opposition …
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the Opposition is just carrying it too far.
Mr BURKE: Mr Speaker, I’ve said on many occasions in this House that the Leader of the Opposition is a fraud. The Leader of the Opposition …
Mr BAILEY: A point of order, Mr Speaker! Quite clearly, to do that he would have had to have withdrawn them in the past. He needs to withdraw it this time. It’s unparliamentary to suggest that someone is a fraud.
Mr SPEAKER: I couldn’t rule that that’s unparliamentary. It’s been said here often enough.
Mr BAILEY: What?
Mr SPEAKER: I couldn’t rule it.
Mr BAILEY: So ‘hypocritical’ you rule on, but ‘fraud’ you don’t?
Mr SPEAKER: Does the member feel deeply offended by it?
Ms MARTIN: I do.
Mr SPEAKER: Then I would ask the Chief Minister to withdraw.
Mr BURKE: If it offends the sensitivities of the Leader of the Opposition, I withdraw. But ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: But she does set out to deliberately deceive. And I believe that I have painted that picture quite freely. The other thing I believe that needs to be recognised is that she is big on quoting leadership issues in this House. The first thing you do as a leader is make sure you have the mob with you.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: Get the mob with you, don’t be a media junkie, don’t run out there and get the grab, and then 5 minutes later your shadow attorney-general comes into the House and discounts everything you’ve said. Leadership is demonstrated in substance and is demonstrated in example ...
Ms Martin: Is that what you have?
Mr BURKE: That’s precisely what I have. But what do you expect from an opposition with no policies, that certainly doesn’t know what it stands for? The opportunity is there for them to demonstrate that. Support Senator Bob Brown. Just come out and say to Territorians that you support Senator Bob Brown in his moves. You’ll be supported by the Criminal Lawyers Association and the Bar Association of the Northern Territory ...
A member: Trish Crossin.
Mr BURKE: ... and Senator Trish Crossin. So you have a bit of support there straight off. Be clear and honest with Territorians and say that you’re absolutely against mandatory sentencing. Explain to them that your focus is on offenders, not victims. Explain to them that we have it all wrong and your moves in the federal parliaments will lead to a better government and life for Territorians, and frankly I’ll help you print the glossies.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016