Mr TOYNE - 1999-11-24
Over the last month, Labor has consistently raised matters concerning staffing levels at both Royal Darwin and Alice Springs Hospitals. I seek leave to table a memo dated 21 October from the general manager, Alice Springs Hospital, to all staff.
Leave granted.
Mr TOYNE: Minister, doesn’t this internal departmental memo confirm that at Alice Springs Hospital: (i) elective inpatient admissions will cease from 26 November and resume on 25 February 2000; (ii) elective day surgery will cease on 22 December and resume on 10 January 2000; (iii) general outpatient clinics will cease on 17 December and recommence on 17 January 2000; and (iv) Ward 9 and Ward 5 will close on 26 November and reopen on 20 January 2000? Are you still going to stand here in this House and deny ward closures at Alice Springs Hospital?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, this is a good opportunity to talk about matters relating to the 2 hospitals that Labor have targeted as having staffing crises. I will start from the top and work to Alice Springs. Let’s start with Royal Darwin.
Ms Martin: Alice Springs.
Mr DUNHAM: No, you mentioned Darwin as well, so let’s start with Darwin. In the media recently the member for Wanguri raised some matters relating to neonatal babies at Royal Darwin Hospital and the necessity, in his view, for the Health Department to send those babies south.
In politics we get used to spins and fibs. We get used to pushing the truth margins a bit. But there is a line and the line, I believe, is to run a case to expectant mums in the community. There would be some hundreds of them expecting babies before Christmas, many of whom will have to have their babies at the Royal Darwin, and there will be a portion of those whose babies will need, through their frailty or prematurity, some treatment in a special-care nursery. I believe to target that group in the way the member for Wanguri did is outrageous and obscene.
I table his press release. It is his responsibility. We’re all responsible for the truth in this House. The member for Wanguri published a press release saying: ‘He warned today that premature babies born at Royal Darwin Hospital might soon have to be flown south for treatment’. That was an outrageous lie, and it was a lie that was seen through very quickly by the media. He went on radio and ran his line on Fred McCue’s show. Fred is showing - not just in the interview with Clare Martin this morning – a capacity to ask some penetrating questions.
Mr Henderson ran a line where he hid behind a fictitious adviser. This gammon adviser told him that he had had advice from medical and nursing staff. He went on to say: ‘I believe, I think, 6 nurses have left, blah, blah. If this happens and if that happens, it could happen’. Fred says: ‘There’s an awful lot of ifs in there, though, isn’t there?’ Henderson goes on and says his understanding is this and his advice is that etc, etc. So his advice came from a very specific source.
I chose to take my advice from the nurse in charge of the unit. She confirmed that 3 people had left and that this is a fairly common level of turnover. She did say that there had been a couple of applications for the positions. These applications were also known to Mr Henderson, who said: ‘I have been advised that only 2 replacements have so far been found, neither of which are senior nurses’. One of them has had 13 years’ experience - that’s pretty senior.
I can inform members that as late as yesterday there were no babies, fortunately, in the special-care nursery at Royal Darwin. At the same time, an agency nurse with great experience in this area had come with her credentials to obtain a job in the area and was told: ‘I’m sorry, but we have enough staff’. She’s been put on staff in Royal Darwin because the numbers fluctuate in this particular area, and from time to time we draw staff with the relevant qualifications from elsewhere.
Let’s look at the basics of this. We have the opposition going out - and they’ve done it many times – with a little circular. There’s Royal Darwin again planted on the front of the leader’s little diatribe that’s she’s putting out to people. We have a situation ...
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Mr Speaker! The member for Stuart’s question went directly to ward closures at Alice Springs Hospital. The minister’s been on his feet some minutes now and has not yet got to the core of the question. He wants to stay in his comfort zone with Darwin Hospital, of which he probably knows a little more.
Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of order, but I ask the minister to get to the nub of the answer as quickly as possible.
Mr DUNHAM: Mr Speaker, it does take some time to go through these issues because they are put out in such a complex way. They have the capacity sometimes to convince the people that black is white.
Ms Martin: Well, do a ministerial statement. We’ve asked you a question.
Mr DUNHAM: It’s not necessary to do a ministerial statement to run a rebuttal …
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! It would be a lot quicker if we had a little more silence. Thank you.
Mr DUNHAM: In summary, in the last so-called staff shortage crisis, the figure of 13 nurses leaving was a falsehood. The claim that we were unable to replace those nurses was a falsehood. The allegation that the mothers of premature babies would have to travel south with their babies was a falsehood. Royal Darwin Hospital is entirely capable of providing very good service to mothers and babies right through the Christmas period, and I am glad to have the opportunity on radio to say that.
We move now to Alice Springs. There we have a phenomenon of, predictably ever year, numbers of nurses choosing to leave about Christmas time. We also have specialists who choose to take this time to have a break. That is why they desist from elective surgery. The word ‘elective’ is relative because we are talking about the capacity for people who have a necessity for medical interventions to be deferred. If urgent things come along we have the capacity not only to service that clientele but also the option of flying them either north to Darwin or south to Adelaide.
Yes, the town’s population decreases. Yes, there are numbers of nurses who took up medium-term employment with the hospital and choose to take this opportunity to go back to family or wherever. And yes, we take the opportunity to look to where we might deploy beds.
What I can tell the House this morning is that the allegation that 50 beds would be closed at Alice Springs Hospital is a falsehood. We now have a whole litany of these and they are quite unfortunate, because there are people in Darwin who have no choice. We are a monopoly provider in those 2 centres to the vast bulk of the population. The Labor Party’s continual attack on our excellent facilities in these 2 centres, in an attempt to erode the confidence of the community, is nothing short of obscene.
While I am on my feet, I can talk about some staffing issues in Alice Springs with surgery.
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Mr Speaker! The minister remarks: ‘While I’m on my feet’. Question Time is not for him to think up other things while he is on his feet.
Mr PALMER: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. The minister is not permitted to speak while sitting down - only while he is on his feet.
Mr SPEAKER: Minister, are your continuing remarks relevant to the question?
Mr DUNHAM: They are entirely relevant, Mr Speaker.
Mr SPEAKER: We will hear the remarks.
Mr DUNHAM: Several times during the year, one or two of the paediatric wards closed due to low activity. Those opposite would say we should keep them fully staffed, notwithstanding we had no patients. That’s like something out of Yes, Minister. We attempt to modify our staffing towards those areas where there is more acuity.
I can assure people in Alice Springs that not only is Alice Springs Hospital entirely able and well positioned to be able to cope with the needs that might be imposed on it over Christmas, but we also have a higher level of specialist medical staffing than ever before. This is a hospital that should be praised by those opposite. It should be praised for its competence and its capacity to meet the needs of the community.
Leave granted.
Mr TOYNE: Minister, doesn’t this internal departmental memo confirm that at Alice Springs Hospital: (i) elective inpatient admissions will cease from 26 November and resume on 25 February 2000; (ii) elective day surgery will cease on 22 December and resume on 10 January 2000; (iii) general outpatient clinics will cease on 17 December and recommence on 17 January 2000; and (iv) Ward 9 and Ward 5 will close on 26 November and reopen on 20 January 2000? Are you still going to stand here in this House and deny ward closures at Alice Springs Hospital?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, this is a good opportunity to talk about matters relating to the 2 hospitals that Labor have targeted as having staffing crises. I will start from the top and work to Alice Springs. Let’s start with Royal Darwin.
Ms Martin: Alice Springs.
Mr DUNHAM: No, you mentioned Darwin as well, so let’s start with Darwin. In the media recently the member for Wanguri raised some matters relating to neonatal babies at Royal Darwin Hospital and the necessity, in his view, for the Health Department to send those babies south.
In politics we get used to spins and fibs. We get used to pushing the truth margins a bit. But there is a line and the line, I believe, is to run a case to expectant mums in the community. There would be some hundreds of them expecting babies before Christmas, many of whom will have to have their babies at the Royal Darwin, and there will be a portion of those whose babies will need, through their frailty or prematurity, some treatment in a special-care nursery. I believe to target that group in the way the member for Wanguri did is outrageous and obscene.
I table his press release. It is his responsibility. We’re all responsible for the truth in this House. The member for Wanguri published a press release saying: ‘He warned today that premature babies born at Royal Darwin Hospital might soon have to be flown south for treatment’. That was an outrageous lie, and it was a lie that was seen through very quickly by the media. He went on radio and ran his line on Fred McCue’s show. Fred is showing - not just in the interview with Clare Martin this morning – a capacity to ask some penetrating questions.
Mr Henderson ran a line where he hid behind a fictitious adviser. This gammon adviser told him that he had had advice from medical and nursing staff. He went on to say: ‘I believe, I think, 6 nurses have left, blah, blah. If this happens and if that happens, it could happen’. Fred says: ‘There’s an awful lot of ifs in there, though, isn’t there?’ Henderson goes on and says his understanding is this and his advice is that etc, etc. So his advice came from a very specific source.
I chose to take my advice from the nurse in charge of the unit. She confirmed that 3 people had left and that this is a fairly common level of turnover. She did say that there had been a couple of applications for the positions. These applications were also known to Mr Henderson, who said: ‘I have been advised that only 2 replacements have so far been found, neither of which are senior nurses’. One of them has had 13 years’ experience - that’s pretty senior.
I can inform members that as late as yesterday there were no babies, fortunately, in the special-care nursery at Royal Darwin. At the same time, an agency nurse with great experience in this area had come with her credentials to obtain a job in the area and was told: ‘I’m sorry, but we have enough staff’. She’s been put on staff in Royal Darwin because the numbers fluctuate in this particular area, and from time to time we draw staff with the relevant qualifications from elsewhere.
Let’s look at the basics of this. We have the opposition going out - and they’ve done it many times – with a little circular. There’s Royal Darwin again planted on the front of the leader’s little diatribe that’s she’s putting out to people. We have a situation ...
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Mr Speaker! The member for Stuart’s question went directly to ward closures at Alice Springs Hospital. The minister’s been on his feet some minutes now and has not yet got to the core of the question. He wants to stay in his comfort zone with Darwin Hospital, of which he probably knows a little more.
Mr SPEAKER: There is no point of order, but I ask the minister to get to the nub of the answer as quickly as possible.
Mr DUNHAM: Mr Speaker, it does take some time to go through these issues because they are put out in such a complex way. They have the capacity sometimes to convince the people that black is white.
Ms Martin: Well, do a ministerial statement. We’ve asked you a question.
Mr DUNHAM: It’s not necessary to do a ministerial statement to run a rebuttal …
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! It would be a lot quicker if we had a little more silence. Thank you.
Mr DUNHAM: In summary, in the last so-called staff shortage crisis, the figure of 13 nurses leaving was a falsehood. The claim that we were unable to replace those nurses was a falsehood. The allegation that the mothers of premature babies would have to travel south with their babies was a falsehood. Royal Darwin Hospital is entirely capable of providing very good service to mothers and babies right through the Christmas period, and I am glad to have the opportunity on radio to say that.
We move now to Alice Springs. There we have a phenomenon of, predictably ever year, numbers of nurses choosing to leave about Christmas time. We also have specialists who choose to take this time to have a break. That is why they desist from elective surgery. The word ‘elective’ is relative because we are talking about the capacity for people who have a necessity for medical interventions to be deferred. If urgent things come along we have the capacity not only to service that clientele but also the option of flying them either north to Darwin or south to Adelaide.
Yes, the town’s population decreases. Yes, there are numbers of nurses who took up medium-term employment with the hospital and choose to take this opportunity to go back to family or wherever. And yes, we take the opportunity to look to where we might deploy beds.
What I can tell the House this morning is that the allegation that 50 beds would be closed at Alice Springs Hospital is a falsehood. We now have a whole litany of these and they are quite unfortunate, because there are people in Darwin who have no choice. We are a monopoly provider in those 2 centres to the vast bulk of the population. The Labor Party’s continual attack on our excellent facilities in these 2 centres, in an attempt to erode the confidence of the community, is nothing short of obscene.
While I am on my feet, I can talk about some staffing issues in Alice Springs with surgery.
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Mr Speaker! The minister remarks: ‘While I’m on my feet’. Question Time is not for him to think up other things while he is on his feet.
Mr PALMER: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. The minister is not permitted to speak while sitting down - only while he is on his feet.
Mr SPEAKER: Minister, are your continuing remarks relevant to the question?
Mr DUNHAM: They are entirely relevant, Mr Speaker.
Mr SPEAKER: We will hear the remarks.
Mr DUNHAM: Several times during the year, one or two of the paediatric wards closed due to low activity. Those opposite would say we should keep them fully staffed, notwithstanding we had no patients. That’s like something out of Yes, Minister. We attempt to modify our staffing towards those areas where there is more acuity.
I can assure people in Alice Springs that not only is Alice Springs Hospital entirely able and well positioned to be able to cope with the needs that might be imposed on it over Christmas, but we also have a higher level of specialist medical staffing than ever before. This is a hospital that should be praised by those opposite. It should be praised for its competence and its capacity to meet the needs of the community.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016