Mr LUGG - 1999-04-20
Last week it was announced that Phillips Petroleum had acquired some of the interests of BHP Petroleum in the Timor Sea. I understand this move is considered a great advancement towards developing this project. However, can the minister confirm that there are tax issues to clarify between Australia and Indonesia, and has he had any role in sorting this out?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, yes, in fact that announcement by Phillips that they had acquired BHP Petroleum’s interest in Bayu-Undan in the Timor Sea Zone of Cooporation is indeed very good news for the Northern Territory. The announced sale certainly is an advancement on the processes of getting the Bayu-Undan field developed, and I think most members would be aware of the fairly long history of differences of view between Phillips and BHP Petroleum as to how that Bayu-Undan field should be developed.
As early as 1996, Phillips had a proposal to develop an LNG plant in Darwin, but they were unable to convince all the owners in the field of that course of action, and accordingly the LNG opportunity was missed out. In fact, supply was provided from another place in the world, and obviously the result was a lack of a pipeline bringing gas to Darwin.
There are still a lot of commercial considerations between the remaining owners of the field to be agreed on, and certainly the Australian-Indonesian joint authority that administer ZOCA will need to give consideration to the appropriate approvals, but Phillips has always been very keen in proposing a liquid stripping operation at the wellhead, and a piping of gas to Darwin for domestic purposes in Darwin, including, obviously, supply of gas to power.
To the end of trying to make sure the project doesn’t suffer any glitches at all in terms of administrative processes, I recently went to Canberra, met a number of Australian ministers, and discussed the issues that needed to be attended to, and also, last Thursday evening, I travelled to Indonesia, where I had discussions with Energy Minister Kuntoro regarding the matter, and also with President Habibie, regarding both this issue and also the issue of East Timor.
In Bali last month, Senator Minchin, the Federal Energy Minister, and Minister Kuntoro, the Energy Minister from Indonesia, agreed to set in train a process which would bring both Australian and Indonesian tax people together to come up with a final process by the end of May. It is pretty important that that process continues and is settled by May, and there’s also a need to look at a number of other issues that could be dealt with by a presidential decree regarding the remote area provisions of Bayu-Undan, and to try and bring it all on the same lines as the Natuna , project, which is an Indonesian project supplying gas to Singapore.
Those processes received very receptive discussion, and I’m very satisfied that the Indonesian government certainly is ensuring that they can work towards making sure all the bureaucratic and administrative processes are in place to enable the further development of that ZOCA field.
I’m very hopeful that Bayu-Undan will be developed and decisions can be made quickly on commitment. At the present time, we have the Laminaria-Corallina oil field, operated by Woodside, which is a $1300m development, which is nearing the end of its development phase. It is expected to come into operation in October this year, but it’s important to keep the momentum going.
The Bayu-Undan Phillips project will be a world class project in terms of gas, and it’s really important that the processes enable that to occur, because as well as the advantage of bringing gas onshore for Darwin, and all the flow-ons that come out of that, the ability to create economic activity of such a scale in the Timor Sea area will send very strong signals to others to move into development. It will create economic activity in the region which will be of benefit to both Australia and Indonesia, and also to Timor, and that certainly has to be something we are very, very concerned about over the next few years.
In regards to my meeting with the President, in fact, the majority of time was spent discussing the issue of East Timor. The Australian Ambassador, John McCarthy, was present with me, and there was discussion on ways in which the Australian Government could, through the UN, provide assistance to try and bring about a disarmament of the warring factions in East Timor and proceed to a process which will enable a plebiscite regarding the future of East Timor. We should be aware that comments by the opposition are not helpful in this issue, and I think that claims that the Territory government is only considering economic benefits are not only untrue, but they came from the Deputy Leader of the Opposition.
Mr Stirling: Yep!
Mr MANZIE: They haven’t come from myself. And this is from a man who is involved with an organisation that wrote to business people saying that if they provide money they can get a deal upon the independence ...
Mr Stirling: What organisation?
Mr MANZIE: ... any future independence of East Timor. Apart from accusing us ...
Members interjecting.
Mr MANZIE: Apart from accusing us of being involved in some sort of economic process, which is totally untrue, they in fact are involved in an organisation which is laying out promises to Darwin businesses as to their future.
Members interjecting.
Mr MANZIE: Promises of trying to make profit out of the misery that’s occurring with our near neighbours. I deplore them for that. I certainly reiterate that there is absolutely no process where the Territory government is seeking any sort of economic gain.
Mr REED: A point of order, Mr Speaker! I do ask that the member for Wanguri be requested to withdraw his assertion that the honourable minister is telling a lie.
Mr SPEAKER: The member for Wanguri should withdraw that remark. I have asked you to withdraw.
Mr BAILEY: I withdraw. A point of order, Mr Speaker! I ask the Minister for Asian Relations and Trade to withdraw the statement that the member for Nhulunbuy is involved in an organisation, because that is untrue.
Mr SPEAKER: It’s a difficult position, but I would ask the minister to give some indication as to the organisation, because it is a difficult one to judge without having some further knowledge of it.
Mr MANZIE: Well, Mr Speaker, the member for Nhulunbuy happens to attend public gatherings of the organisation, and makes statements in collusion with them, and this is a group that is collecting, supposedly, to supply aid to East Timor. In fact, that group that’s collecting has provided promises to business that if they become involved, they will receive a financial benefit, a business in the future. And I would say, again, that the statements and claims by the member for Nhulunbuy that the Territory government was deliberately involved in an economic process are patently untrue and, in fact, are totally the opposite to the actions of the government, which has, with this particular document, put in place a process to ensure that the Territory is in the best position to provide …
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: Mr Speaker, it’s interesting. The member for Nhulunbuy’s process of disagreement is to shout people down. The fact is, he is trying to gain ...
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BAILEY: A point of order, Mr Speaker! Quite clearly, under Standing Order 62, under offensive or unbecoming words, and I can read the whole paragraph, but in relation to innuendo to another member of unbecoming conduct or motives, they are all offensive references. I think the minister has not really stated it, and needs to withdraw his accusations regarding the member for Nhulunbuy, which have been quite false and unbecoming under Standing Order 62.
Mr SPEAKER: There is some relevance to the point of order. In fact, to make an assertion that a member is involved in some conduct that’s …
Mr BAILEY: I was speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr SPEAKER: Yes, I’m aware of that. But to make reference that a member, by innuendo, or in any other way, is involved in some activity which would be regarded as against the interests of the Territory, or against the interests of this parliament, is, or can be, considered unparliamentary. I would ask the minister to clarify the situation fairly quickly in his answer to the point of order before getting on with his question.
Mr MANZIE: In reply to the claim that the Territory government, and myself, named as the individual by the member for Nhulunbuy, are involved in trying to gain some sort of economic benefit out of Timor, I pointed out …
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr MANZIE: Will you be quiet! I pointed out that, not only are we not involved in a process such as that,. but the organisation that he attends public meetings at, speaks at public gatherings with, and has been championing on the radio and in the newspapers has, in fact, provided an inducement to businesses that they will have a profit at the end of the line if they get involved in donations.
Mrs Hickey interjecting.
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order, order! The Assembly is getting out of order and it is very difficult …
Mr Stirling: He is telling lies.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! You will withdraw that.
Mr Stirling: Mr Speaker, I withdraw, but there is not a shred of evidence …
Mr SPEAKER: Order, order! The member for …
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for Nhulunbuy will resume his seat.
Mr MANZIE: There was no inference that there was a letter written by the member for Nhulunbuy. If he listened to what was said instead of trying to shout down speakers in the Assembly, he would have understood that I pointed out that he has attended public gatherings and made public comments in regards to the activities of the group which have offered inducement to business. That’s a fact. And that is in reply to his totally untrue claim that I, and the government, have been involved in activities to gain economic benefit from the miseries of East Timor. He said it on the radio, he said it in newspapers, and he said it in the House this morning. Now, if he can’t accept the fact that members in here are allowed to stand up and speak of issues, and to speak of matters he’s involved in ...
Mr Stirling: If you want to make smeary allegations ...
Mr MANZIE: It’s not a smeary allegation to scream at the government and myself and say that I’m trying to make an economic benefit?
Mr Stirling: It’s true.
Mr MANZIE: There you go. The man can’t help himself. The fact is he should have a bit of a look at who he’s been involved in and what they’ve said, and he should be able to stand up and either say: ‘I had no part in that and I don’t agree with that ...’
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is the minister still speaking to the point of order?
Mr MANZIE: The government of the Territory is very concerned about what is occurring with our neighbours. We are doing everything we can as a Territory government to ensure that we minimise the problems and use our best officers and our best connections to try and ensure that there is a peaceful resolution.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is the minister finished? Look, I believe that, at times when tempers are raised, things are said that ought not be said in this House. It is important to remember that if you’re going to infer against any member that he or she has done something that’s against the interests of the Territory, or against the interests of this parliament, or dishonest in some way, then you must back it up. You have to be able to back it up by a substantive motion ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! I accepted the minister has responded in explaining himself as to why that comment was made, and I would accept that there is no point of order at this stage.
Mr Hatton: I assume that that comment you made just then applies equally to comments made by members opposite?
Mr SPEAKER: It applies to everybody.
Mr Hatton: I trust you will employ that seriously.
Mr SPEAKER: It applies to everybody.
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, yes, in fact that announcement by Phillips that they had acquired BHP Petroleum’s interest in Bayu-Undan in the Timor Sea Zone of Cooporation is indeed very good news for the Northern Territory. The announced sale certainly is an advancement on the processes of getting the Bayu-Undan field developed, and I think most members would be aware of the fairly long history of differences of view between Phillips and BHP Petroleum as to how that Bayu-Undan field should be developed.
As early as 1996, Phillips had a proposal to develop an LNG plant in Darwin, but they were unable to convince all the owners in the field of that course of action, and accordingly the LNG opportunity was missed out. In fact, supply was provided from another place in the world, and obviously the result was a lack of a pipeline bringing gas to Darwin.
There are still a lot of commercial considerations between the remaining owners of the field to be agreed on, and certainly the Australian-Indonesian joint authority that administer ZOCA will need to give consideration to the appropriate approvals, but Phillips has always been very keen in proposing a liquid stripping operation at the wellhead, and a piping of gas to Darwin for domestic purposes in Darwin, including, obviously, supply of gas to power.
To the end of trying to make sure the project doesn’t suffer any glitches at all in terms of administrative processes, I recently went to Canberra, met a number of Australian ministers, and discussed the issues that needed to be attended to, and also, last Thursday evening, I travelled to Indonesia, where I had discussions with Energy Minister Kuntoro regarding the matter, and also with President Habibie, regarding both this issue and also the issue of East Timor.
In Bali last month, Senator Minchin, the Federal Energy Minister, and Minister Kuntoro, the Energy Minister from Indonesia, agreed to set in train a process which would bring both Australian and Indonesian tax people together to come up with a final process by the end of May. It is pretty important that that process continues and is settled by May, and there’s also a need to look at a number of other issues that could be dealt with by a presidential decree regarding the remote area provisions of Bayu-Undan, and to try and bring it all on the same lines as the Natuna , project, which is an Indonesian project supplying gas to Singapore.
Those processes received very receptive discussion, and I’m very satisfied that the Indonesian government certainly is ensuring that they can work towards making sure all the bureaucratic and administrative processes are in place to enable the further development of that ZOCA field.
I’m very hopeful that Bayu-Undan will be developed and decisions can be made quickly on commitment. At the present time, we have the Laminaria-Corallina oil field, operated by Woodside, which is a $1300m development, which is nearing the end of its development phase. It is expected to come into operation in October this year, but it’s important to keep the momentum going.
The Bayu-Undan Phillips project will be a world class project in terms of gas, and it’s really important that the processes enable that to occur, because as well as the advantage of bringing gas onshore for Darwin, and all the flow-ons that come out of that, the ability to create economic activity of such a scale in the Timor Sea area will send very strong signals to others to move into development. It will create economic activity in the region which will be of benefit to both Australia and Indonesia, and also to Timor, and that certainly has to be something we are very, very concerned about over the next few years.
In regards to my meeting with the President, in fact, the majority of time was spent discussing the issue of East Timor. The Australian Ambassador, John McCarthy, was present with me, and there was discussion on ways in which the Australian Government could, through the UN, provide assistance to try and bring about a disarmament of the warring factions in East Timor and proceed to a process which will enable a plebiscite regarding the future of East Timor. We should be aware that comments by the opposition are not helpful in this issue, and I think that claims that the Territory government is only considering economic benefits are not only untrue, but they came from the Deputy Leader of the Opposition.
Mr Stirling: Yep!
Mr MANZIE: They haven’t come from myself. And this is from a man who is involved with an organisation that wrote to business people saying that if they provide money they can get a deal upon the independence ...
Mr Stirling: What organisation?
Mr MANZIE: ... any future independence of East Timor. Apart from accusing us ...
Members interjecting.
Mr MANZIE: Apart from accusing us of being involved in some sort of economic process, which is totally untrue, they in fact are involved in an organisation which is laying out promises to Darwin businesses as to their future.
Members interjecting.
Mr MANZIE: Promises of trying to make profit out of the misery that’s occurring with our near neighbours. I deplore them for that. I certainly reiterate that there is absolutely no process where the Territory government is seeking any sort of economic gain.
Mr REED: A point of order, Mr Speaker! I do ask that the member for Wanguri be requested to withdraw his assertion that the honourable minister is telling a lie.
Mr SPEAKER: The member for Wanguri should withdraw that remark. I have asked you to withdraw.
Mr BAILEY: I withdraw. A point of order, Mr Speaker! I ask the Minister for Asian Relations and Trade to withdraw the statement that the member for Nhulunbuy is involved in an organisation, because that is untrue.
Mr SPEAKER: It’s a difficult position, but I would ask the minister to give some indication as to the organisation, because it is a difficult one to judge without having some further knowledge of it.
Mr MANZIE: Well, Mr Speaker, the member for Nhulunbuy happens to attend public gatherings of the organisation, and makes statements in collusion with them, and this is a group that is collecting, supposedly, to supply aid to East Timor. In fact, that group that’s collecting has provided promises to business that if they become involved, they will receive a financial benefit, a business in the future. And I would say, again, that the statements and claims by the member for Nhulunbuy that the Territory government was deliberately involved in an economic process are patently untrue and, in fact, are totally the opposite to the actions of the government, which has, with this particular document, put in place a process to ensure that the Territory is in the best position to provide …
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr MANZIE: Mr Speaker, it’s interesting. The member for Nhulunbuy’s process of disagreement is to shout people down. The fact is, he is trying to gain ...
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BAILEY: A point of order, Mr Speaker! Quite clearly, under Standing Order 62, under offensive or unbecoming words, and I can read the whole paragraph, but in relation to innuendo to another member of unbecoming conduct or motives, they are all offensive references. I think the minister has not really stated it, and needs to withdraw his accusations regarding the member for Nhulunbuy, which have been quite false and unbecoming under Standing Order 62.
Mr SPEAKER: There is some relevance to the point of order. In fact, to make an assertion that a member is involved in some conduct that’s …
Mr BAILEY: I was speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr SPEAKER: Yes, I’m aware of that. But to make reference that a member, by innuendo, or in any other way, is involved in some activity which would be regarded as against the interests of the Territory, or against the interests of this parliament, is, or can be, considered unparliamentary. I would ask the minister to clarify the situation fairly quickly in his answer to the point of order before getting on with his question.
Mr MANZIE: In reply to the claim that the Territory government, and myself, named as the individual by the member for Nhulunbuy, are involved in trying to gain some sort of economic benefit out of Timor, I pointed out …
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr MANZIE: Will you be quiet! I pointed out that, not only are we not involved in a process such as that,. but the organisation that he attends public meetings at, speaks at public gatherings with, and has been championing on the radio and in the newspapers has, in fact, provided an inducement to businesses that they will have a profit at the end of the line if they get involved in donations.
Mrs Hickey interjecting.
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order, order! The Assembly is getting out of order and it is very difficult …
Mr Stirling: He is telling lies.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! You will withdraw that.
Mr Stirling: Mr Speaker, I withdraw, but there is not a shred of evidence …
Mr SPEAKER: Order, order! The member for …
Mr Stirling interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for Nhulunbuy will resume his seat.
Mr MANZIE: There was no inference that there was a letter written by the member for Nhulunbuy. If he listened to what was said instead of trying to shout down speakers in the Assembly, he would have understood that I pointed out that he has attended public gatherings and made public comments in regards to the activities of the group which have offered inducement to business. That’s a fact. And that is in reply to his totally untrue claim that I, and the government, have been involved in activities to gain economic benefit from the miseries of East Timor. He said it on the radio, he said it in newspapers, and he said it in the House this morning. Now, if he can’t accept the fact that members in here are allowed to stand up and speak of issues, and to speak of matters he’s involved in ...
Mr Stirling: If you want to make smeary allegations ...
Mr MANZIE: It’s not a smeary allegation to scream at the government and myself and say that I’m trying to make an economic benefit?
Mr Stirling: It’s true.
Mr MANZIE: There you go. The man can’t help himself. The fact is he should have a bit of a look at who he’s been involved in and what they’ve said, and he should be able to stand up and either say: ‘I had no part in that and I don’t agree with that ...’
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is the minister still speaking to the point of order?
Mr MANZIE: The government of the Territory is very concerned about what is occurring with our neighbours. We are doing everything we can as a Territory government to ensure that we minimise the problems and use our best officers and our best connections to try and ensure that there is a peaceful resolution.
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Is the minister finished? Look, I believe that, at times when tempers are raised, things are said that ought not be said in this House. It is important to remember that if you’re going to infer against any member that he or she has done something that’s against the interests of the Territory, or against the interests of this parliament, or dishonest in some way, then you must back it up. You have to be able to back it up by a substantive motion ...
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! I accepted the minister has responded in explaining himself as to why that comment was made, and I would accept that there is no point of order at this stage.
Mr Hatton: I assume that that comment you made just then applies equally to comments made by members opposite?
Mr SPEAKER: It applies to everybody.
Mr Hatton: I trust you will employ that seriously.
Mr SPEAKER: It applies to everybody.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016