Ms MARTIN - 2000-06-14
Yesterday the Queensland government created national headlines when it announced that it will abolish the state-based fuel subsidy from 1 July. The Queensland move is identical to that planned by this government, and in the Territory it will push petrol prices up. The move was today described by Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson as: ‘breath-taking opportunism, plainly planned as a highly cynical political move’, and ‘an attempt to shift the blame to Canberra which will blow up in his face’.
Chief Minister, given that John Anderson has used these words to describe an action you too have shamelessly undertaken, how can you now justify to Territorians this blatant fuel tax grab under the cover of a GST?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, I would have thought a Labor leader in the Northern Territory, shortly to go to a national Labor conference, would support her Labor colleague in Queensland rather than rattling off the statements of a coalition Deputy Prime Minister. The reality is that the Labor government in Queensland has applied the same logic that has been ...
Ms Martin interjecting .
Mr BURKE: The Leader of the Opposition is consistent in at least one thing. She calls herself a leader, but you would never want to have this woman supporting you in any situation whatsoever because when it comes to support she is sadly missing. In any environment where it requires a little leadership, a little support, a little cameraderie, shoo! - into the bunker she goes. She sends the bomber boys out to do that sort of work and comes in when there is likely a chance to say something.
The reality is that the Premier of Queensland, the Labor Premier, has applied the same logic in Queensland as has been applied in the Northern Territory. With the introduction of the Commonwealth tiered grants or subsidies to ensure that the GST does not affect fuel prices directly, Australia-wide, they have taken their current subsidy and applied it to another area of government business, which as I understand it is a reduction in motor vehicle registration charges in Queensland. Rather than taking in that money and putting it into consolidated revenue, they have put it into another area of government business so that the gain through the Commonwealth subsidy is not taken away from consumers. In the case of Queensland, they have put it into motor vehicle registry, into lower vehicle registration costs. In the Northern Territory, we have applied it to IT and skills.
In due course, the Leader of the Opposition will be able to rationalise to Territorians her logic that you can always do both, that you never need to raise revenue but at the same time you can continually spend. We look forward to that great day when the Leader of the Opposition finally brings out the details of her fiscal policy. Yesterday she committed to an extra $6m or $7m in expenditure without any thought to any revenue application.
The Leader of the Opposition is making much of reading questions which are prepared for her with regard to the GST, trying to show that she has some concern for Territorians. The reality is that this Leader of the Opposition, this excuse for a leader, this coward of a leader ...
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Mr Speaker! In the last sittings I was asked to withdraw the word ‘coward’. If it is good enough …
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Resume your seat. I have taken the stance in the past that if the member finds it offensive I would ask for it to be withdrawn. I ask that the Chief Minister withdraw.
Mr BURKE: I withdraw. This leader who is so lacking in intestinal fortitude, this gutless leader who would call for the sacking of a minister because a deputy secretary of Sport and Recreation has had his contract terminated one month early, is the same person who would join with her Labor colleagues to see the 30-year reputation of the Chief Magistrate of the Northern Territory destroyed. So if it comes to...
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Mr Speaker! It is Question Time. I am not sure why the Chief Minister is on his feet and what he is about to do. He has answered the question that was placed before him and he should resume his seat. It is not the time for ministerial statements.
Mr SPEAKER: I believe the Chief Minister has some scope in answering the question in the way he chooses. I ask the Chief Minister, though, to get on with the answer as quickly as possible.
Mr BURKE: Mr Speaker, I am simply demonstrating what I said on the first day I assumed office as Chief Minister - that this Leader of the Opposition has no substance. This Leader of the Opposition is not a leader. This Leader of the Opposition is a coward. This Leader of the Opposition is a cut-and-paste politician who can’t even develop her own policies. She has to steal them from Western Australia and Queensland.
When it comes to the GST, she is as big a fraud. Yesterday she asked a question and tried to create the scenario that gross interest payments from other states were 6.1% compared with the Northern Territory which was almost 9.1%. She said:
The Chief Minister’s own Budget Paper No 3 shows just how untrue this claim [of a 6.1% all-states average, which is all we ever claimed] is. In fact, under the CLP interest payments cost us 9.1% of revenue compared to just 6.1% of the states. That is almost 50% higher. If the Territory’s interest bill was truly comparable to the six states, then isn’t it the case we would have almost $60m more each year for spending on schools and hospitals and extra police?
Ms Martin: You’re just reading this, Denis. You don’t understand it at all.
Mr BURKE: I understand it more than you do. The Leader of the Opposition says I didn’t understand the question yesterday. I said yesterday that like most figures the Leader of the Opposition peddles, it takes some time to get to the truth of them. While I earn only about $20 000 a year more than the Leader of the Opposition, it is far easier to sit on that side and read a prepared question than it is to answer it on your feet. Sometimes, to be true and fair to Territorians, one refrains from replying.
The Leader of the Opposition referred to page 4 of Budget Paper No 3, which gives the Territory debt-servicing percentage as 9.1% as compared with the 6.1% figure, which is the six-state ratio. Firstly, she didn’t say to Territorians that the other states in Australia are not 6.1% and the Territory is 9.1%, which is what she was trying to imply. That is typical of the way the Leader of the Opposition operates.
Gross interest payments as a proportion of total revenue in the Northern Territory are 9.1%. This is on page 16. It’s not many pages further on in the same budget paper. There is a graph as well. It shows that the gross interest payments for the Territory are 9.1%. South Australia, recovering from a Labor episode of debt, is paying far higher than the Northern Territory. And Tasmania – a good old Labor state, Tasmania - is paying much higher, over 12%.
The Northern Territory is not much higher than Western Australia and New South Wales, and that’s the truth of it. The all-states ratio is 6.1%. The Northern Territory is 9.1%. Two states are higher than the Northern Territory. Two large states are tracking just below the Northern Territory.
Mr TOYNE: A point of order, Mr Speaker! He has spent 15 minutes on his answer so far.
Mr SPEAKER: It has not been 15 minutes, but I ask the Chief Minister to get to the completion of the answer as quickly as possible.
Mr BURKE: The Labor rabble take great pleasure in misleading Territorians, but object ...
Ms MARTIN: A point of order, Mr Speaker! We asked a very specific question about the fuel subsidy. If the Chief Minister wants to answer this question, let him get one of his bozos on the back bench to ask it.
Mr SPEAKER: As I understand it, the Chief Minister is answering the question that you asked yesterday. He would have had that opportunity at the end of Question Time. Let us hear the completion of the answer now. If you remain reasonably quiet, I am sure it will not take very long.
Mr AH KIT: A point of order, Mr Speaker! The Chief Minister has accused the opposition of misleading Territorians. I ask that he withdraw that. It is clear that he obviously does not understand the question. He therefore should sit down and let us get on with Question Time.
Mr SPEAKER: If I were to rule in your favour in this case, it would almost gag the opposition in saying anything about the government.
Mr BURKE: Mr Speaker, in response to the objection of the member for Arnhem, I will repeat the statement that the Leader of the Opposition made in her question. She said: ‘Under the CLP, interest payments cost us 9.1% of revenue compared to just 6.1% for the states’.
Member: Average?
Mr BURKE: No, not ‘average’. She didn’t use the word ‘average’. See, this is how you mislead. She didn’t use the word ‘average’. She just said ‘compared to just 6.1% for the states’. And I am putting on the record that there are two states whose debt payments are higher than the Northern Territory – South Australia and Tasmania - and two other states, Western Australia and New South Wales, who are tracking just below the Northern Territory in terms of their interest payments.
You didn’t mention that to Territorians, and I find this astounding. When I took the question yesterday I said one always has to be suspicious of the figures they use. If she was serious she would give us some warning. This is a direct attempt to because the answer ...
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: Have you written to the University of the Third Age yet or not? Have you apologised yet? Who is wrong? Who told the little bitty lie?
Ms Martin: Sit down, Denis. Read your own budget papers.
Mr BURKE: You know you are rattling the can when she says, ‘Sit down, Denis’ or ‘You’re stupid’. ‘Cut-and-paste Clare’ they call her.
The reason why the all-states average is 6.1% is also in page 15 of Budget Paper No 3. It is in there for the leader to read if she wanted to read it. It refers to two states, Victoria and Queensland, who on the graph are way below the other states in their gross debt repayments. It says this:
In 1992-93, Victorian net debt [this is when they were just running out of the Kirner government] was approximately 209% of total revenue [under the Labor Kirner/Cain government], over twice the level of debt in the Territory. Since then, Victoria has raised roughly $35bn through asset sales, most of which has been used to retire debt. On 30 June 2000, Victoria is estimated to have the second-lowest ratio of net debt to total revenue of Australia (6.3%).
The sale of assets can be an effective means of obtaining revenue with which to reduce debt and therefore interest payments. However, the sale of profitable public enterprises also means that a source of revenue through dividend payments is lost.
That is the answer to the Leader of the Opposition’s question. The all-states average is 6.1%, but if you take out the debt-reduction strategy of Victoria and if you take out the excellent record of Queensland – for all of Joh Bjelke-Petersen’s faults, Labor governments since can be ever grateful for the way he left that state in terms of their debt repayment issues - and also look at the situation in the rest of the states, the Northern Territory is in excellent shape.
Chief Minister, given that John Anderson has used these words to describe an action you too have shamelessly undertaken, how can you now justify to Territorians this blatant fuel tax grab under the cover of a GST?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, I would have thought a Labor leader in the Northern Territory, shortly to go to a national Labor conference, would support her Labor colleague in Queensland rather than rattling off the statements of a coalition Deputy Prime Minister. The reality is that the Labor government in Queensland has applied the same logic that has been ...
Ms Martin interjecting .
Mr BURKE: The Leader of the Opposition is consistent in at least one thing. She calls herself a leader, but you would never want to have this woman supporting you in any situation whatsoever because when it comes to support she is sadly missing. In any environment where it requires a little leadership, a little support, a little cameraderie, shoo! - into the bunker she goes. She sends the bomber boys out to do that sort of work and comes in when there is likely a chance to say something.
The reality is that the Premier of Queensland, the Labor Premier, has applied the same logic in Queensland as has been applied in the Northern Territory. With the introduction of the Commonwealth tiered grants or subsidies to ensure that the GST does not affect fuel prices directly, Australia-wide, they have taken their current subsidy and applied it to another area of government business, which as I understand it is a reduction in motor vehicle registration charges in Queensland. Rather than taking in that money and putting it into consolidated revenue, they have put it into another area of government business so that the gain through the Commonwealth subsidy is not taken away from consumers. In the case of Queensland, they have put it into motor vehicle registry, into lower vehicle registration costs. In the Northern Territory, we have applied it to IT and skills.
In due course, the Leader of the Opposition will be able to rationalise to Territorians her logic that you can always do both, that you never need to raise revenue but at the same time you can continually spend. We look forward to that great day when the Leader of the Opposition finally brings out the details of her fiscal policy. Yesterday she committed to an extra $6m or $7m in expenditure without any thought to any revenue application.
The Leader of the Opposition is making much of reading questions which are prepared for her with regard to the GST, trying to show that she has some concern for Territorians. The reality is that this Leader of the Opposition, this excuse for a leader, this coward of a leader ...
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Mr Speaker! In the last sittings I was asked to withdraw the word ‘coward’. If it is good enough …
Mr SPEAKER: Order! Resume your seat. I have taken the stance in the past that if the member finds it offensive I would ask for it to be withdrawn. I ask that the Chief Minister withdraw.
Mr BURKE: I withdraw. This leader who is so lacking in intestinal fortitude, this gutless leader who would call for the sacking of a minister because a deputy secretary of Sport and Recreation has had his contract terminated one month early, is the same person who would join with her Labor colleagues to see the 30-year reputation of the Chief Magistrate of the Northern Territory destroyed. So if it comes to...
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Mr Speaker! It is Question Time. I am not sure why the Chief Minister is on his feet and what he is about to do. He has answered the question that was placed before him and he should resume his seat. It is not the time for ministerial statements.
Mr SPEAKER: I believe the Chief Minister has some scope in answering the question in the way he chooses. I ask the Chief Minister, though, to get on with the answer as quickly as possible.
Mr BURKE: Mr Speaker, I am simply demonstrating what I said on the first day I assumed office as Chief Minister - that this Leader of the Opposition has no substance. This Leader of the Opposition is not a leader. This Leader of the Opposition is a coward. This Leader of the Opposition is a cut-and-paste politician who can’t even develop her own policies. She has to steal them from Western Australia and Queensland.
When it comes to the GST, she is as big a fraud. Yesterday she asked a question and tried to create the scenario that gross interest payments from other states were 6.1% compared with the Northern Territory which was almost 9.1%. She said:
The Chief Minister’s own Budget Paper No 3 shows just how untrue this claim [of a 6.1% all-states average, which is all we ever claimed] is. In fact, under the CLP interest payments cost us 9.1% of revenue compared to just 6.1% of the states. That is almost 50% higher. If the Territory’s interest bill was truly comparable to the six states, then isn’t it the case we would have almost $60m more each year for spending on schools and hospitals and extra police?
Ms Martin: You’re just reading this, Denis. You don’t understand it at all.
Mr BURKE: I understand it more than you do. The Leader of the Opposition says I didn’t understand the question yesterday. I said yesterday that like most figures the Leader of the Opposition peddles, it takes some time to get to the truth of them. While I earn only about $20 000 a year more than the Leader of the Opposition, it is far easier to sit on that side and read a prepared question than it is to answer it on your feet. Sometimes, to be true and fair to Territorians, one refrains from replying.
The Leader of the Opposition referred to page 4 of Budget Paper No 3, which gives the Territory debt-servicing percentage as 9.1% as compared with the 6.1% figure, which is the six-state ratio. Firstly, she didn’t say to Territorians that the other states in Australia are not 6.1% and the Territory is 9.1%, which is what she was trying to imply. That is typical of the way the Leader of the Opposition operates.
Gross interest payments as a proportion of total revenue in the Northern Territory are 9.1%. This is on page 16. It’s not many pages further on in the same budget paper. There is a graph as well. It shows that the gross interest payments for the Territory are 9.1%. South Australia, recovering from a Labor episode of debt, is paying far higher than the Northern Territory. And Tasmania – a good old Labor state, Tasmania - is paying much higher, over 12%.
The Northern Territory is not much higher than Western Australia and New South Wales, and that’s the truth of it. The all-states ratio is 6.1%. The Northern Territory is 9.1%. Two states are higher than the Northern Territory. Two large states are tracking just below the Northern Territory.
Mr TOYNE: A point of order, Mr Speaker! He has spent 15 minutes on his answer so far.
Mr SPEAKER: It has not been 15 minutes, but I ask the Chief Minister to get to the completion of the answer as quickly as possible.
Mr BURKE: The Labor rabble take great pleasure in misleading Territorians, but object ...
Ms MARTIN: A point of order, Mr Speaker! We asked a very specific question about the fuel subsidy. If the Chief Minister wants to answer this question, let him get one of his bozos on the back bench to ask it.
Mr SPEAKER: As I understand it, the Chief Minister is answering the question that you asked yesterday. He would have had that opportunity at the end of Question Time. Let us hear the completion of the answer now. If you remain reasonably quiet, I am sure it will not take very long.
Mr AH KIT: A point of order, Mr Speaker! The Chief Minister has accused the opposition of misleading Territorians. I ask that he withdraw that. It is clear that he obviously does not understand the question. He therefore should sit down and let us get on with Question Time.
Mr SPEAKER: If I were to rule in your favour in this case, it would almost gag the opposition in saying anything about the government.
Mr BURKE: Mr Speaker, in response to the objection of the member for Arnhem, I will repeat the statement that the Leader of the Opposition made in her question. She said: ‘Under the CLP, interest payments cost us 9.1% of revenue compared to just 6.1% for the states’.
Member: Average?
Mr BURKE: No, not ‘average’. She didn’t use the word ‘average’. See, this is how you mislead. She didn’t use the word ‘average’. She just said ‘compared to just 6.1% for the states’. And I am putting on the record that there are two states whose debt payments are higher than the Northern Territory – South Australia and Tasmania - and two other states, Western Australia and New South Wales, who are tracking just below the Northern Territory in terms of their interest payments.
You didn’t mention that to Territorians, and I find this astounding. When I took the question yesterday I said one always has to be suspicious of the figures they use. If she was serious she would give us some warning. This is a direct attempt to because the answer ...
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order!
Mr BURKE: Have you written to the University of the Third Age yet or not? Have you apologised yet? Who is wrong? Who told the little bitty lie?
Ms Martin: Sit down, Denis. Read your own budget papers.
Mr BURKE: You know you are rattling the can when she says, ‘Sit down, Denis’ or ‘You’re stupid’. ‘Cut-and-paste Clare’ they call her.
The reason why the all-states average is 6.1% is also in page 15 of Budget Paper No 3. It is in there for the leader to read if she wanted to read it. It refers to two states, Victoria and Queensland, who on the graph are way below the other states in their gross debt repayments. It says this:
In 1992-93, Victorian net debt [this is when they were just running out of the Kirner government] was approximately 209% of total revenue [under the Labor Kirner/Cain government], over twice the level of debt in the Territory. Since then, Victoria has raised roughly $35bn through asset sales, most of which has been used to retire debt. On 30 June 2000, Victoria is estimated to have the second-lowest ratio of net debt to total revenue of Australia (6.3%).
The sale of assets can be an effective means of obtaining revenue with which to reduce debt and therefore interest payments. However, the sale of profitable public enterprises also means that a source of revenue through dividend payments is lost.
That is the answer to the Leader of the Opposition’s question. The all-states average is 6.1%, but if you take out the debt-reduction strategy of Victoria and if you take out the excellent record of Queensland – for all of Joh Bjelke-Petersen’s faults, Labor governments since can be ever grateful for the way he left that state in terms of their debt repayment issues - and also look at the situation in the rest of the states, the Northern Territory is in excellent shape.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016