Mr TOYNE - 1998-02-24
Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show that the Territory has the lowest retention rate to Year 12 of any place in Australia. A staggering 60% of Territory students drop out before Year 12. We do not even know many do not make it to Year 8. Does the minister agree that the dropout rate demonstrates failure by his administration? Isn't it true that the figures are actually worse than stated because of the large number of Territory teenagers who do not even go to secondary school? Isn't it a fact that the Chamber of Commerce and Industry has expressed concern about these low retention rates because they offset Territory skill levels? Isn't it a fact that 75% of bush students have no access at all to standard secondary education courses? Finally, isn't it a fact that this situation is a threat to the long-term prosperity and development of the Territory?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, my first observation is that, during my time as Minister for Education and Training, this is the first time the member has bothered to ask a question on education. In fact, some of the matters, some of the issues ...
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr ADAMSON: You don't want to know, do you?
In fact, some of the issues that directly relate to the honourable member's question should have been debated in this place because we have been fighting these at a national level. The opposition in the Northern Territory is the only opposition in the country that has not adopted a public position on some of these matters, both inside and outside parliament.
The first point that should be made is that, if students leave school before completing Year 12, I question whether it is fair to call them 'dropouts'.
Members interjecting.
Mr ADAMSON: You have called them dropouts. The member for Stuart has just called anyone who leaves before Year 12 a dropout. The member for Stuart shakes his head. The
Page 7
reality is that he stood up and talked about the dropout rate. He called them dropouts.
Mr Bailey: You are a dropkick. Get it right - he referred to people 'who drop out' before Year 12.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Let the minister give his answer. I am not sure whether members want to hear him or not.
Mr ADAMSON: I do not think they do, Madam Speaker.
Students who do not complete Year 12 are not, in my opinion, necessarily dropouts.
Mr Bailey: They drop out of the system.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Wanguri, this is the last time I will speak to you. Give the minister a chance to answer.
Mr ADAMSON: If I were one of those students, I would be offended by the comment. There are a number of reasons why the figures are as they are in the Territory, and they are certainly not as the opposition paints them. I am more than happy to explain if I am given the opportunity.
The 60% figure is both incorrect and misleading. One perfect example cannot be refuted. Someone studying part-time in Years 11 and 12 - and we have an increasing number of such students - is not counted in those retention rates.
Ms Martin: That applies in any state. It does not come into the equation.
Mr ADAMSON: It does, because there has been a dramatic increase since the introduction of the NTCE which has been a significant change in the last couple of years. It can be related directly to something that has changed in the Northern Territory compared with elsewhere. There are a number of reasons, and that is certainly one of them.
Another is simply that students are heading into the work force. It is no coincidence that the states with the highest levels of unemployment have the highest apparent retention rates simply because there are no jobs for the students to take up. The higher the unemployment rate in any particular jurisdiction, the higher the apparent school retention rates. In city schools in the Northern Territory, the retention rate is only a couple of percentage points below the national average. I suggest that that couple of points difference exists because students are taking jobs that they would not be able to find in New South Wales, South Australia and some of the other rust-belt states. Those retention rates are not nearly as bad as the opposition makes out. Certainly, if I were a student who had left before completing Year 12 and heard the comment by the member for Stuart that I was a dropout, I would be justifiably irritated.
Page 8
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, my first observation is that, during my time as Minister for Education and Training, this is the first time the member has bothered to ask a question on education. In fact, some of the matters, some of the issues ...
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr ADAMSON: You don't want to know, do you?
In fact, some of the issues that directly relate to the honourable member's question should have been debated in this place because we have been fighting these at a national level. The opposition in the Northern Territory is the only opposition in the country that has not adopted a public position on some of these matters, both inside and outside parliament.
The first point that should be made is that, if students leave school before completing Year 12, I question whether it is fair to call them 'dropouts'.
Members interjecting.
Mr ADAMSON: You have called them dropouts. The member for Stuart has just called anyone who leaves before Year 12 a dropout. The member for Stuart shakes his head. The
Page 7
reality is that he stood up and talked about the dropout rate. He called them dropouts.
Mr Bailey: You are a dropkick. Get it right - he referred to people 'who drop out' before Year 12.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Let the minister give his answer. I am not sure whether members want to hear him or not.
Mr ADAMSON: I do not think they do, Madam Speaker.
Students who do not complete Year 12 are not, in my opinion, necessarily dropouts.
Mr Bailey: They drop out of the system.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Wanguri, this is the last time I will speak to you. Give the minister a chance to answer.
Mr ADAMSON: If I were one of those students, I would be offended by the comment. There are a number of reasons why the figures are as they are in the Territory, and they are certainly not as the opposition paints them. I am more than happy to explain if I am given the opportunity.
The 60% figure is both incorrect and misleading. One perfect example cannot be refuted. Someone studying part-time in Years 11 and 12 - and we have an increasing number of such students - is not counted in those retention rates.
Ms Martin: That applies in any state. It does not come into the equation.
Mr ADAMSON: It does, because there has been a dramatic increase since the introduction of the NTCE which has been a significant change in the last couple of years. It can be related directly to something that has changed in the Northern Territory compared with elsewhere. There are a number of reasons, and that is certainly one of them.
Another is simply that students are heading into the work force. It is no coincidence that the states with the highest levels of unemployment have the highest apparent retention rates simply because there are no jobs for the students to take up. The higher the unemployment rate in any particular jurisdiction, the higher the apparent school retention rates. In city schools in the Northern Territory, the retention rate is only a couple of percentage points below the national average. I suggest that that couple of points difference exists because students are taking jobs that they would not be able to find in New South Wales, South Australia and some of the other rust-belt states. Those retention rates are not nearly as bad as the opposition makes out. Certainly, if I were a student who had left before completing Year 12 and heard the comment by the member for Stuart that I was a dropout, I would be justifiably irritated.
Page 8
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016