Dr LIM - 2000-08-10
Yesterday in this House the opposition again showed their true colours in the drug debate by the invented claim that drug-related crime was on the rise, and also that there was a lack of drug rehabilitation programs in the Territory. Can the minister provide any figures about the levels of prescription drugs use and/or misuse and spell out the government’s policy with regard to Labor’s solution of heroin and opiate injecting rooms?
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, it is appropriate that I start with an apology. The children from Years 6 and 7 behind us have been listening this morning. I have been to Mr De Souza’s class a couple of times to talk about politics, and one of the questions I was asked is: ‘Why is there so much noise? Why don’t they listen to the answers?’ I guess we have seen it again today. So I apologise to the children from Years 6 and 7 at Leanyer.
The next thing I should do before I start talking about doctor-shopping is talk about methadone. This morning in interjections the members for Stuart and Wanguri were saying: ‘You’ve got a methadone program, though’. Methadone is a legal drug which is legally prescribed by almost any GP who has the capacity to prescribe Schedule 8 drugs. So methadone is available for treatment. What we are saying here in the Territory is we do not have a methadone maintenance program. I think that should be spelled out. Methadone is a drug that can be prescribed by GPs and can be dispensed by pharmacists. There are people with intractable pain sometimes who use this drug.
What happens in other states is it is used as an addictive drug to replace another addictive drug. What the Chief Minister is saying is we do not have a program of that type here. So let’s be clear about that. Not only does the Northern Territory not think it is smart to give somebody who has an addiction …
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister for Health, Family and Children’s Services has the floor. I would appreciate being able to at least hear the answer to the question. I am finding it very difficult.
Mr DUNHAM: Not only does the Northern Territory not think it is smart to give somebody who has an addiction to a particular drug another drug of addiction, but we are the only jurisdiction that has a policy of this type. Now, the question is, do we ever have a government policy of using methadone? Yes, for withdrawal - not a methadone maintenance program.
There are occasions, and they are easily proscribed - the shadow minister for health knows this well, he has sat in my office for briefings. In much the same way, he has distorted the briefing he received from the Deputy Police Commissioner. He knows the ministerial guidelines under which methadone can be dispensed under the Poisons and Dangerous Drugs Act of the Northern Territory. There could be occasions when somebody has been in an accident who is drug-dependent. They have suffered trauma and we have to treat them, but also we have to treat their drug addiction. That’s one such case.
But to parade in this House that the Chief Minister has somehow distorted the truth, saying, ‘Yes, methadone is available’, shows ignorance of the briefings or a calculated attempt to raise this issue in the public in a way that is distorted.
Let us get to the issue of prescribed drugs - licit drugs being used illicitly. There is also a call that the government is doing nothing. Again I quote one of the interjections: ‘A real issue you’re not acting on’. We are acting on it. We are acting on it as a very serious matter. Anecdotally, we know through the court system and through the police and others that licit drugs are finding their way into the drug traffic. We know that it is an issue.
The Health Insurance Commission has looked at those few doctors - and I emphasise again, few doctors - who are perhaps over-prescribing. Their prescribing habits have been looked at. If you look at what is happening with the drug that is most used, MS-Contin, the scripts have dropped from 2532 at the start of 1999 to 1537 – 2500 to 1500 in one year. That is a 40% reduction over the last year. Two things should be pointed out. The first is that this drug is needed by a lot of people - palliative care people, people with intractable pain. It also should be pointed out that not only is the Health Insurance Commission watching these people, but so too is Territory Health Services.
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr DUNHAM: You can ask your question at another time. If you’re interested in this …
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr BURKE: A point of order, Mr Speaker! I’m trying to hear the minister’s answer. Could I ask the opposition to shut up?
Mr SPEAKER: I agree. There is too much interjection, and prolonged interjection. I would appreciate being able to hear the answer in reasonable silence.
Mr DUNHAM: Issue No 1 – we have reduced the prescribing rates of MS -Contin. Issue No 2 - has that meant increased rates of crime? My advice comes from the police, Territory Health Services and others. While I didn’t see the news last night, I am informed that the Leader of the Opposition gets her information from the NT News, which should come as a surprise to nobody, or the media. My advice is that there has been a decrease rather than an increase in drug-related crime.
Let us put this furphy to rest. No 1, we don’t have a methadone maintenance program. No 2, we are decreasing the use of prescription drugs turning into the illicit stream. No 3, crime has not increased as a result.
ANSWER
Mr Speaker, it is appropriate that I start with an apology. The children from Years 6 and 7 behind us have been listening this morning. I have been to Mr De Souza’s class a couple of times to talk about politics, and one of the questions I was asked is: ‘Why is there so much noise? Why don’t they listen to the answers?’ I guess we have seen it again today. So I apologise to the children from Years 6 and 7 at Leanyer.
The next thing I should do before I start talking about doctor-shopping is talk about methadone. This morning in interjections the members for Stuart and Wanguri were saying: ‘You’ve got a methadone program, though’. Methadone is a legal drug which is legally prescribed by almost any GP who has the capacity to prescribe Schedule 8 drugs. So methadone is available for treatment. What we are saying here in the Territory is we do not have a methadone maintenance program. I think that should be spelled out. Methadone is a drug that can be prescribed by GPs and can be dispensed by pharmacists. There are people with intractable pain sometimes who use this drug.
What happens in other states is it is used as an addictive drug to replace another addictive drug. What the Chief Minister is saying is we do not have a program of that type here. So let’s be clear about that. Not only does the Northern Territory not think it is smart to give somebody who has an addiction …
Members interjecting.
Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister for Health, Family and Children’s Services has the floor. I would appreciate being able to at least hear the answer to the question. I am finding it very difficult.
Mr DUNHAM: Not only does the Northern Territory not think it is smart to give somebody who has an addiction to a particular drug another drug of addiction, but we are the only jurisdiction that has a policy of this type. Now, the question is, do we ever have a government policy of using methadone? Yes, for withdrawal - not a methadone maintenance program.
There are occasions, and they are easily proscribed - the shadow minister for health knows this well, he has sat in my office for briefings. In much the same way, he has distorted the briefing he received from the Deputy Police Commissioner. He knows the ministerial guidelines under which methadone can be dispensed under the Poisons and Dangerous Drugs Act of the Northern Territory. There could be occasions when somebody has been in an accident who is drug-dependent. They have suffered trauma and we have to treat them, but also we have to treat their drug addiction. That’s one such case.
But to parade in this House that the Chief Minister has somehow distorted the truth, saying, ‘Yes, methadone is available’, shows ignorance of the briefings or a calculated attempt to raise this issue in the public in a way that is distorted.
Let us get to the issue of prescribed drugs - licit drugs being used illicitly. There is also a call that the government is doing nothing. Again I quote one of the interjections: ‘A real issue you’re not acting on’. We are acting on it. We are acting on it as a very serious matter. Anecdotally, we know through the court system and through the police and others that licit drugs are finding their way into the drug traffic. We know that it is an issue.
The Health Insurance Commission has looked at those few doctors - and I emphasise again, few doctors - who are perhaps over-prescribing. Their prescribing habits have been looked at. If you look at what is happening with the drug that is most used, MS-Contin, the scripts have dropped from 2532 at the start of 1999 to 1537 – 2500 to 1500 in one year. That is a 40% reduction over the last year. Two things should be pointed out. The first is that this drug is needed by a lot of people - palliative care people, people with intractable pain. It also should be pointed out that not only is the Health Insurance Commission watching these people, but so too is Territory Health Services.
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr DUNHAM: You can ask your question at another time. If you’re interested in this …
Ms Martin interjecting.
Mr BURKE: A point of order, Mr Speaker! I’m trying to hear the minister’s answer. Could I ask the opposition to shut up?
Mr SPEAKER: I agree. There is too much interjection, and prolonged interjection. I would appreciate being able to hear the answer in reasonable silence.
Mr DUNHAM: Issue No 1 – we have reduced the prescribing rates of MS -Contin. Issue No 2 - has that meant increased rates of crime? My advice comes from the police, Territory Health Services and others. While I didn’t see the news last night, I am informed that the Leader of the Opposition gets her information from the NT News, which should come as a surprise to nobody, or the media. My advice is that there has been a decrease rather than an increase in drug-related crime.
Let us put this furphy to rest. No 1, we don’t have a methadone maintenance program. No 2, we are decreasing the use of prescription drugs turning into the illicit stream. No 3, crime has not increased as a result.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016