2002-10-09
Estimates Committee 2002-03 - Absence of Police Commissioner
Mr REED to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
The Commissioner of Police said on Friday last, as reported in the NT News of Saturday, that he had not been informed by the government before his trip overseas that the Budget Estimates Committee was coming up. Could you explain, minister, why you indicated to the Budget Estimates Committee on Thursday 19 September that the budget estimates process had been discussed with the Commissioner, but you still felt it was okay for him to be overseas at the time? Were you lying, minister, or are you saying the Police Commissioner is lying?
ANSWER
I do not think anyone was lying, Madam Speaker, in relation to the question from the member for Katherine. I do recall sitting and working through with the Police Commissioner quite some months in advance of when the trip was undertaken as to the sorts of things that he needed to be looking at, the advantages for the Police Force in visiting Canada and the development opportunities that an exchange program with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police would bring to the Northern Territory Police.
In relation to the Estimates Committee, I never had the slightest doubt whatsoever that Deputy Commissioner Wernham would not be able to take his place in terms of the information, first time going into an Estimates Committee with public servants and CEOs and in this case an acting CEO of one of our organisations, never any doubt at all that he would be able to do the job in place of his boss because of the clash of dates.
Such were the months in advance, I certainly did not say to the Police Commissioner: ‘I do not think you should go. It is going to clash with Estimates Committee’. It was not discussed; it was not raised. As things unfolded, we were working, even putting the process together quite close until it occurred. There was a lot going on in that process of time. This parliament, and myself as Leader of Government Business, and my colleagues and your deputy leader was involved in all of that. So it was a long way in advance of when the Estimates Committee process actually took place. No lies have been told here, neither by the Police Commissioner - I did not quite hear the question, I am not sure where the lie was supposed to have allegedly been told, but …
Mr Burke: You made emphatic statements in the Estimates Committee which have been contradicted by the Police Commissioner publicly. Answer that question.
Mr STIRLING: I do not know what statements you are talking about. It was not an issue between us at the time that I approved the trip. It was not an issue to me that he was overseas at the time the Estimates Committee finally came forth and took its place because we had in Deputy Commissioner Bruce Wernham a very able and competent person able to take the place of his Commissioner for the purpose of providing the Estimates Committee and members opposite with fulsome answers to their questions.
Itinerant Strategy – Darwin and Palmerston
Ms SCRYMGOUR to MINISTER for HOUSING
Given that dealing with antisocial behaviour issues throughout the Northern Territory is a first order priority for this government, can the minister outline the latest development in regards to the Darwin and Palmerston itinerants strategy?
ANSWER
I thank the member for the question. Madam Speaker, our government views antisocial behaviour and the problems associated with homelessness as a major issue for our communities throughout the Territory. We all want to live in a safe and peaceful community. The strategies we have announced under our itinerants project are designed to begin to tackle these problems in Darwin and Palmerston, along with Katherine and Alice Springs.
Funding of $500 000 for the itinerants project was allocated in the recent budget and follows extensive research and consultation with more than 40 government and non-government agencies who have a stake in managing the issues that involve itinerant and homeless people in and around Darwin.
Our government’s substantial commitment followed a research project that was commissioned by the previous government and completed in November 2001. The report recommended four key strategic areas to address itinerancy issues. These were: a patrolling strategy; an education and regional strategy; an alcohol strategy; and an accommodation strategy. I am pleased to say that there has been a great deal of progress on a number of fronts.
Yesterday, the Information and Referrals Office employed an Outreach and Office Coordinator. The office facility is expected to open in November, subject only to negotiations for suitable premises. A Receptionist/Information Officer has also been appointed but will not commence employment until the office opens.
Issues of identification for people who come to Darwin from remote communities when dealing with banks and other institutions have also been a long-term problem. The proof of identification process has been the subject of ongoing negotiations with ATSIC, NLC, Centrelink, Australia Post and financial institutions and will be ready for implementation when the office opens. Diversionary programs will also be run out of the Information and Referrals Office.
These diversionary programs are aimed at giving people meaningful options for activity and will eventually help reduce antisocial behaviour. These projects have already commenced with a pilot project for canoe making and artefact production being run through the Larrakia Nation. A forum bringing together workers in the various organisations and agencies that have had hands-on contact with itinerant and homeless people is planned for 4 November at Nungalinya College.
This is the first time that the full range of workers from patrolling to health and welfare staff have been brought together in the one place, and that is a key strategy for the coordination and networking function of the Information and Referrals Office. The sobering-up shelter hours will be extended to a 24-hour operation. As it is not anticipated there will be high demand for morning shelter services, then, consequently, shelter staff will be allocated to other outreach work when not operating the shelter.
The Community Patrol will increase hours of operation from seven to approximately 14 hours per day over six days a week. A community day patrol with outreach and information referral functions will also begin operation. The Community Patrol will work closely with the Information and Referrals Office and the network of service providers coordinated by that office.
Let me point out again that our government views antisocial behaviour as unacceptable. In particular, the strengthened community patrol approach will, I am sure, help to reduce such behaviour. A recruitment campaign for 10 more CDEP positions for the Community Patrols aimed at Larrakia people and other language speakers has already begun. The Community Patrol service extension will operate as a flexible pilot program and will begin operations in early November. Discussions with representatives from remote regions are developing a model for visiting elders to come into town to work with the Community Patrol on an occasional basis.
The first full census of itinerant people in Darwin is to be conducted in early November. For the first time, we will have an accurate picture of the number of people we have to deal with.
The itinerants project is a vital strategy for this government to use in working towards a safer and more secure community for all Territorians. As I said earlier, we all want safe and peaceful communities. I congratulate those in my department, as well as the many other government and non-government agencies, including the Larrakia Nation, for the difficult tasks they are undertaking and the partnerships they have developed.
Estimates Committee 2002-03 - Absence of Police Commissioner
Mr REED to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
Minister, Hansard reports that on Thursday 19 September 2002 you told members that he, he being the Police Commissioner, would have preferred to have been here, that is, in the budget Estimates Committee. The NT News of last Saturday says:
- He said he had not been informed by the government before his trip that the Budget estimates were coming up.
And the same report was reported on ABC radio news over the weekend. Minister, the Commissioner is clearly blaming you for not being aware that the budget Estimates Committee process was being undertaken. I ask you again to categorically state were you lying to the House or was the Police Commissioner lying last weekend?
ANSWER
I thank the member for Katherine for his question. I am getting a bit tired of these constant attacks on our police force and on our Police Commissioner. It started after the selection process for Commissioner White, and these guys opposite haven’t let up on it yet. What they fail to recognise in their attacks on the Commissioner, Madam Speaker, is that a small police force such as we have in the Territory, to be effective, requires the support and confidence of everybody in this community, but most particularly the elected members of that community, to support our police from the Police Commissioner down.
It is a bit cute for these guys, having been in government for 26 years, and would never hear a word of criticism, and it wasn’t that we were intimidated by that because we accepted in Opposition that you didn’t attack the police because they have a dangerous and difficult job to do out there, and they require the support of the community to do it, including you guys, who were elected to represent your constituents. Yourself, as both the Leader of the Opposition and police spokesperson, ought to know better than to flick to the former Minister for Police for these sorts of criticisms. I have no doubt whatsoever that, all things being equal, when the criticism started to come across the table, the Commissioner would have preferred to have been before the Estimates Committee.
There were fixed dates in relation to that travel and the trip that he undertook that he had to meet. It wasn’t simply ringing up the boss at the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and saying: ‘Listen, I’m coming over. Can you fit me in on Saturday afternoon?’ They have operational details and requirements and people on deck or away at any given time. Quantico, FBI headquarters, another valuable and important part of his trip, also had certain date requirements around which it was beyond the power of the Commissioner to change. He had certain obligations to meet on that trip. He had to meet them in the time frames that he was given. As I said, I have no doubt that he would have preferred to have been here, given the sledging and criticism, the undermining of the morale and confidence and the esteem that our police force is held in by the community by those opposite.
Madam SPEAKER: Before we do go on, I will point out to members asking questions Standing Order 62: all personal reflections on members are deemed highly disorderly. I really don’t think we should be using terminology you are using particularly in reference to a senior public servant. So if you are going to continue this line of questioning, I suggest you perhaps rephrase the way you are doing it, otherwise refer to that standing order.
New Drug Laws – Reasons for
Mr KIELY to MINISTER for JUSTICE and ATTORNEY-GENERAL
Can you enlighten the House on the nature of the drug problem in the Territory and the purpose of the new drug laws?
ANSWER
I thank the member for Sanderson for a very important question. Everyone on our side of the House believes that illicit drug use in the Northern Territory is a major problem and it is not minuscule, as has been said by the Leader of the Opposition. We thought he might have learnt from the revelations that have come out in debates in this House, and from what he can see in front of his own eyes day by day living in the Northern Territory community. However, as late as Monday 30 September in the NT News, he is still out there saying this government had invented a drug crisis. Well, I can tell you that there is plenty of evidence out there that there is a major illicit drug problem in our community.
In November, we will all get the figures on that. We will see the first of our crime statistics coming out in the first quarterly release. Let us have a look together at what the numbers are going to look like. In the meantime, I thought I might give you a closer look at what the papers have been saying about the drug problem in the Northern Territory. I have made it a lot bigger so you can easily see it. That is just since September. Each one of these is a serious drug incident in our communities.
The Australian Institute for Health and Welfare 2001 National Drug Household Survey reports that 29.2% of people in the Northern Territory had recently taken illicit drugs. That is 12.3% above the national average. That is not the sign of a minuscule drug problem.
When you look at the licit and illicit drug use in our community, alcohol and cannabis are being talked about a lot. The high rate of cannabis use by our youth, 10 times more than the national figure according to the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare 2001, is now leading not just to a nice relaxed feeling on the weekend but to psychosis, to suicide attempts and successful suicides. Behind cannabis lurks the increasing problem of amphetamines in our community. Amphetamine use in the Territory is twice as high as five other Australian states …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Minister, would you just cease for a moment? There are too many interjections from both sides. People in the gallery would like to hear the minister’s answer.
Dr TOYNE: To continue, Madam Speaker, amphetamines are a very significant problem in our community: twice as high in the Northern Territory as five other Australian states last year, according to the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. Sadly, only last Friday in the member’s own electorate, we had a 12-year-old girl with amphetamines on her person at school.
Mr Burke interjecting.
Dr TOYNE: If this is a sign of a minuscule drug problem, then I would like to see what it looks like when it gets a lot bigger.
Mr Burke interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Dr TOYNE: Madam Speaker, the drug laws that we brought into the Territory - the first time a government in this jurisdiction has taken illicit drug use seriously - clearly target drug dealers, manufacturers and traffickers. To repeat some of the figures that have come out of the early enforcement activity under the new drug laws: 10 first notices on suspected drug premises in Darwin; three first notices on suspected drug premises in Alice Springs; 19 search warrants executed; five arrests; two summonses; and 30 infringement notices. In Alice Springs alone, police have confiscated $250 000 worth of amphetamines. They are drugs that would have ended up in the bodies of everyone from our school kids through to adults in the communities in the Northern Territory.
You say that is a minuscule problem, we say it is a significant problem. We are doing something about it, and it is about time that the Leader of the Opposition joined us in reality and started to address a major problem in the Northern Territory.
Aboriginal Customary Law - Integration into the Justice System
Ms CARNEY to MINISTER for JUSTICE and ATTORNEY-GENERAL
Next week your government intends to unveil plans for the integration of traditional Aboriginal law into the justice system. Do you intend to include acceptance of Aboriginal men having sex with children?
Dr TOYNE: Could you repeat the last part of the question, please?
Ms CARNEY: Do you intend to include acceptance of Aboriginal men having sex with children?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I welcome the question because I can talk about what we intend to do about the problems caused by the two systems of law that do co-exist within the Northern Territory.
It is fair to say that our courts operate in a very difficult environment where what is proscribed in one system of law can be acceptable in another system of law. Be that as it may, both systems of law exist in reality in the Northern Territory and, quite rightly, our Chief Magistrate and our Chief Justice insist on the magistracy and judiciary having full discretion in their courts to try and deal with these issues that occur in the boundary between the two systems of law.
We do not believe that that system should carry on, despite the fact that, under the previous government, we have known about these problems in terms of how offences are dealt with under the two different cultures. I remember the Statehood Committee undertaking an extensive study of the options of including customary law elements in the overall constitution of the Northern Territory.
What we will be doing about it is we will be progressing an inquiry as to what problems are occurring at that boundary between the two systems of law. We will be doing that systematically and through an expert body. What we will be doing, alongside that, is to progress the very promising initiatives under Aboriginal law and justice within our remote communities which will allow traditional people, the elders, and people from our justice system and other government service delivery areas to sit down and negotiate a position that is mutually acceptable and can be held within formal and orderly arrangements rather than having the hand of fate determining some of the detail of what has happened to date.
We know this is a problematic area. The member for Macdonnell quite rightly brought that to the attention of this House in his adjournment last night. I believe that we do have to do some systematic and focussed work on this area and, for once, let’s see if we can achieve some certainty in terms of how cultural and customary law matters are dealt with within our community.
Information Commissioner – Selection Panel
Mr WOOD to MINISTER for JUSTICE and ATTORNEY-GENERAL
I was surprised last night at the strength of opposition from some members of the government towards my amendment for making the appointment of the Information Commissioner truly independent and bipartisan. I was also alarmed about the interjection from the member for Sanderson when he said that because of my remark about the not-so-independent Commissioner, that I was attacking the individual. This has made me quite curious.
Minister, you said there would be a selection panel to interview applicants for the job of Information Commissioner. What are the names of the people on the selection panel, and what are their qualifications? Who will make the final decision about who is appointed? Could the minister say whether the government already has a preferred candidate for the job of Information Commissioner, and does that person expect that they will have the job? Would the minister like to make a bet that the name in this envelope is the name of the person who will get the job?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I wonder what I am going to have to pay for the envelope. I would be delighted to assure the member for Nelson that it is none of the above. I indicated yesterday that the Information Commissioner will be selected through a process which will begin with advertising this weekend in the national and local newspapers to attract candidates. The panel that will select from those candidates has not been formed in respect of its exact membership, but I can give you some indication of the type of people that might be on it. There might be someone from the Department of Justice, the Chief Minister’s Department, and from our Archives Service. I would imagine they are all pretty relevant backgrounds to have on a selection panel for that type of job.
We have specified, as you will see this weekend, an extensive list of key responsibilities of that position so it is pretty clear what we are going to be asking that person to fulfil within that statutory position. We have kept the background and qualifications fairly wide. It could come to a legal practitioner, or a person with academic skills, archiving skills – certainly someone who is very well educated and very experienced. That is as far as our thinking on this has gone, and I will lay you 100-1 that there is not any name, whether it is the name in your envelope …
Mr Wood: I will put my dollar in. There!
Dr TOYNE: You owe me 100 bucks, I think. This will be by due process. Selection will be by advertisement and then panel selection. We will receive a recommendation from that panel and I can give you an absolute guarantee that the recommended candidate will get the job.
Illicit Drug Use – Health Needs of Users
Dr BURNS to MINISTER for HEALTH and COMMUNITY SERVICES
Minister, can you inform the House about steps being undertaken to respond to the health needs of illicit drug users, their families and members of the community?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Johnston for his excellent question. I know the member for Johnston is particularly interested in this area, having worked in research for many years, and I am very happy to provide this answer to the House. Also, Madam Speaker, I am looking forward to more fully discussing the Illicit Drugs Task Force later on today in debate. But for this answer, I would like to talk about three key areas which we are working on immediately in relation to the Illicit Drugs Task Force and matters to do with families and young people in particular who are suffering from drug problems in the Northern Territory.
First, we are providing public access to immediate information on what kind of help and support is available. We are expanding treatment services, including access to maintenance pharmacotherapies, and we are increasing the capacity of the existing network of service providers. These key initiatives which are currently being implemented include support programs which include the employment of additional surplus health staff, and the establishment of a 24-hour hotline to provide support and advice to individuals, families and health professionals. Finally, the enacting of Ministerial Guidelines which allow maintenance programs which include the Commonwealth approved range of pharmacotherapies such as buprenorphine, methadone and naltrexone with buprenorphine being the drug of first preference for treating problematic drug use.
These are very important health and social reforms which bring the Northern Territory in line with other parts of Australia. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Task Force, particularly Dr Valerie Asche who chaired the Task Force. In a very short period of time they undertook an extensive process of consultation and produced a detailed and comprehensive report. I believe that in future years this will undoubtedly be viewed as a turning point in the Northern Territory’s approach to serious social policy issues. I commend the Task Force for their work.
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Distinguished Visitor
Madam SPEAKER: Before we go on, members, I would like to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery upstairs of the Honourable Terry McCarthy, the former Speaker of the Northern Territory Legislative Assembly. On behalf of all members, I extend a warm welcome.
Members: Hear hear!
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Supreme Court Sentence - Sex Offence
Supreme Court Sentence - Sex Offence
Ms CARNEY to MINISTER for YOUNG TERRITORIANS
Are you aware of the very recent case of a 50 year old man who was given one day’s gaol for under-aged sex with a 15 year old girl? Will your government be asking the Director of Public Prosecutions to appeal this sentence?
ANSWER
Again, I thank the member for her question. It is important to make it very clear that I, as Chief Minister and head of this government, do not approve of or condone under-age sex. That is certainly a very clear line from us. In terms of what we do about the current situation, the Minister for Justice has given a very firm answer about what we are doing about what is a very difficult area, and there is no doubt about it, Madam Speaker …
Mr Baldwin: No, this particular case. This case. One day sentence.
Mr Burke: Like condoning stoning, is it?
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Mr Ah Kit: What did you mob ever do? Nothing!
Mr Baldwin: Appeal things like that.
Mr Dunham: We would have appealed, mate. It’s called child abuse, Jack.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Ms MARTIN: Madam Speaker this is a very important area, and I think that …
Mr Burke: Well, do something about under-age sex against children by Aboriginal men if you are so concerned.
Madam SPEAKER: Members! Leader of the Opposition!
Mr Burke: It is unlawful anywhere else in Australia. It should be unlawful in the Northern Territory.
Madam SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition! Let me just say to members, this is a very sensitive subject and I do not think calling across the House does you justice. Chief Minister, you have been asked a question, you should give a good, serious answer to it and let us all listen.
Ms MARTIN: Madam Speaker, with due respect, I was doing my best.
Madam SPEAKER: I know, you were doing your best, Chief Minister. It just concerns me.
Ms MARTIN: Thank you. Considering that the opposition was in government for 27 years and virtually never tackled this issue, the answer from the Minister for Justice indicated that we will be looking at what is undoubtedly a very difficult issue in the Territory. The customary traditional law and the law of the Territory, and how those two mix, how those two interact, and where that line is. It is something never properly tackled by the previous administration, and something that we will be tackling. Have no doubt about it, it is very difficult, but the bottom line for me as Chief Minister is that I do not condone under-age sex and never will.
Remote Schools Intern Project
Ms LAWRIE to MINISTER for EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION and TRAINING
Minister, can you please inform the House of the outcome of the intern project in remote schools and, indeed, whether any of the participants have taken up any teaching positions in the Northern Territory.
ANSWER
I certainly can, and I thank the member for Karama for her question because it is a good news story in terms of recruitment of teachers to the Northern Territory. The Remote Schools Intern Project is just one of the strategies employed by the department as part of the recruitment and retention strategy to keep up this issue of teacher supply and retention, particularly in remote schools.
The intern project provided graduate interns of the University of Sydney with funding for travel and a living allowance to undertake a one-term placement in a number of selected remote communities. Fifteen teaching students from the University of Sydney were selected to participate, and they are required to teach half-time for one term, and the rest of the time to undertake a coordinated action research project as part of their Masters teaching program.
Five students from the Northern Territory University’s Teacher Education program also commenced this program late in semester two this year. All of the NTU students are due to complete participation before the end of the 2002 school year.
The Sydney University interns participation in the Remote Schools Internship Project was completed at the end of term three, with interns having spent the previous 10 weeks of the school year in remote community schools. According to feedback I have had from principals on the ground, interns and other departmental staff, it was indeed highly successful. Eight have already accepted full-time teaching positions for term four of this year, and those placements are: three at Yirrkala CEC, three at Shepparton College, Galiwinku on Elcho Island, one at Umbakumba on Groote and one as a resource advisor for Top End Rural Group Schools. A number of the other interns have also expressed interest in returning to the Territory to take up teaching positions next year.
They all attended a two day orientation in July, and a two day debriefing workshop at the end of term three. The research theme they worked on was: how do I learn to become an effective teacher in a remote community setting? The results of that research are being compiled now, and I will be interested to see what those interns have come up with.
There has been no formal evaluation of the project yet, or it is not complete, but it is clear that the project has been successful in recruiting quality teachers and providing them with the opportunity to have an extensive orientation in a remote community prior to accepting teaching positions, and I do not think we can stress that enough. They get a taste of it, and for some it will be never again, and for others they will say: ‘This is for me’, and I think that is a real strength.
We expect this approach will result in improved teacher retention as a result of that preliminary experience. It is just one of the measures that we are putting in place to tackle this difficult problem of recruitment and, most importantly, retention. I think all up it was approximately $100 000. The more of that 15 that stay on for the longer term the better, but it would appear to be money well spent at this stage.
Supreme Court Sentence - Sex Offence
Ms CARNEY to MINISTER for YOUNG TERRITORIANS
Minister, without dodging the question this time, will you ask the Director of Public Prosecutions to appeal this case so that perpetrators in the Northern Territory get the message that under-age sex is abhorrent and will not be tolerated by your government – yes or no?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, it is interesting reflecting on the issue that we have talked about previously in the answer to the last question. It is all very well for the member for Araluen to look seriously across the Chamber and say: ‘I demand an answer on this’.
Ms Carney: I feel seriously about this. Do not patronise me.
Ms MARTIN: This is a very complex area.
Ms Carney: Yes, I know. I know it very well, Chief Minister.
Ms MARTIN: What I smell from the Opposition is simply playing politics about it.
Ms Carney: Rubbish! That is outrageous. You should be ashamed of yourself, Chief Minister.
Ms MARTIN: For 27 years you had the opportunity to seriously tackle an issue that is very complex for the Territory, and one that needs to be addressed.
Ms Carney: Yes or no?
Ms MARTIN: You can look to your own Opposition Leader.
Ms Carney: I am looking at you, Chief Minister!
Ms MARTIN: Let us go back …
Mr Burke: You request the Attorney-General to request the DPP to appeal; that is all you have to do.
Ms Carney: Be brave; make a decision.
Members interjecting.
Ms MARTIN: Madam Speaker, it is very hard to put an argument in here with the yelling and screaming from the Opposition benches.
Members interjecting.
Ms MARTIN: Let us go back to the Constitutional Convention before statehood and look …
Mr REED: A point of order, Madam Speaker! This has nothing to do with the Constitutional Convention. The question was: will the government take action to appeal a particular case - quite specific. The answer is simply a yes or a no to protect this child.
Madam SPEAKER: There is no point of order but Chief Minister, you have been asked a question and you should make sure your answer reflects that question.
Ms MARTIN: Certainly, but there is a very important context here.
Mr Reed: It is today’s law we are talking about, not tomorrow’s.
Ms MARTIN: If you do not want me to answer, I will sit. It will be easier.
Members interjecting.
Ms MARTIN: Now, come on, I am very happy to answer this question, but let’s put a context to it. You asked the question - this is the third time you have dealt with this issue - and I am giving an answer. So let us have a little courtesy from the Opposition to listen, thank you.
Let us go back to the Constitutional Convention, where a lot of work had been done, for 14 years, to look at issues like customary law; the place of customary law and its interaction with the wider Territory law. What did the then Attorney-General, now Opposition Leader, do? He came to the Constitutional Convention and threw it out.
Mr REED: A point of order, Madam Speaker!
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Chief Minister, there has been a point of order called.
Mr REED: I am sorry to intervene again, Chief Minister.
Mr Burke: You are a liar!
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Madam Speaker!
Madam SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition, withdraw that remark.
Mr BURKE: Madam Speaker, I withdraw.
Madam SPEAKER: Thank you.
Mr REED: Madam Speaker, I am sorry to intervene again, but we are not talking about the Constitutional Convention, we are talking about the application of the laws that this parliament put in place as we speak. It is a specific case. The Chief Minister can weasel out of it if she tries, but Territorians are listening, they want a yes or a no. I ask you to ensure that the Chief Minister answers the question.
Madam SPEAKER: Chief Minister, we have said before that you should address your answer to reflect what the question asked you. It is a serious question, let us get an answer.
Ms MARTIN: Madam Speaker, I think I am appropriately dealing with it. We have yelling and screaming from the Opposition which makes it very hard to give the answer. The longer they yell and scream, the longer it will take to give the answer.
I am trying to make the point that this is a very complex and difficult area, and a lot of work had been done on it through the constitutional committee, and it was abandoned by the then Attorney-General who walked into the Constitutional Convention and said, from his back pocket: ‘Have I got a constitution for you! I wrote it over the weekend; I am a very smart Attorney-General’.
Mr Dunham: So it is a no.
Madam SPEAKER: Chief Minister, I will ask you again to answer the question.
Ms MARTIN: Madam Speaker, again I say, the hypocrisy that underlies this from the opposition is that there was work done, it was abandoned. We will do that work. We will look …
Mr REED: Madam Speaker, I ask you to …
Ms MARTIN: Will you sit down!
Mr Baldwin: It is a point of order. You should sit down!
Mr REED: This is a parliament; it is not your house. Madam Speaker, you have ruled and asked the Chief Minister to answer the question. I wonder if she could please do so.
Madam SPEAKER: Thank you for your comment, member for Katherine. I will say, Chief Minister, for the last time, otherwise I will ask you to resume your seat, would you please answer the question. It is a serious question and I think we need an answer.
Ms MARTIN: Madam Speaker, I am answering the question and I think it is important.
Mr Reed: That is contempt of the Speaker!
Ms MARTIN: Madam Speaker, every question we hear in here has a context to it, and it is the context I am dealing with. I say again: I do not condone anyone under 16 having sex and, certainly, it is worth talking to the Director of Public Prosecutions about it.
Public Liability and Professional Indemnity Insurance
Mr McADAM to CHIEF MINISTER
Can the Chief Minister update the Assembly on what action her government is taking in relation to the important public liability issue?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, yes, action is being taken in regard to the very important issues of both public liability and professional indemnity. We have seen the impact on the medical profession, on business and community organisations of the impact of rising public liability premiums and premiums for professional indemnity.
The Territory is only 1% of the national insurance market so it has been very important for the Territory to move in line with what other jurisdictions are doing so that we have a national approach. This is what we have been doing in a whole number of areas, whether it is with grouping for community organisations in terms of securing their public liability insurance in a more effective way by pooling together, or tort law reforms, or risk management strategies which we held in July right around the Territory or the hotline that we continue with.
In front of this parliament is one of the aspects for dealing with the premiums for public liability and professional indemnity, and that is amendments to the Consumer Affairs and Fair Trading Act to facilitate the introduction of waivers for high risk activities, especially in sport and tourism - very important for the Territory. That legislation is currently waiting for changes to the federal Trade Practices Act before we can move forward with final changes here. We also have the Personal Injuries, Liabilities and Damages Bill which will comprehensively address tort law reforms and bring us in line with other areas around Australia.
Going specifically to the report of Justice Ipp, which looks at that whole area of negligence and has given a national guideline to how jurisdictions should be moving. His recommendations strike what is a very appropriate balance between the interests of injured people and the interests of the community at large. To look at some of those specific recommendations from Justice Ipp: for medical practitioners and other professionals, one of the issues is the way that they treat those who come before them in terms of the standards that they impose. Justice Ipp has said that medical practitioners and other professionals who practice or provide treatment according to widely held standards of their profession should not be considered negligent, that injury that occurs due to the materialisation of patently obvious risks should not give rise to a claim of liability.
A general statute of limitations for liability claims of three years from the date of discoverability, with the courts having discretion to extend the period in exceptional circumstances is something that he recommends. Caps and thresholds should be put in place for general damages – that is the pain and suffering. The recommendations he has made are roughly in line with the ones being introduced in this parliament. There should be a cap on damages for economic loss at twice average weekly earnings. Every state and territory is looking at three times that and that is what will be part of the legislation introduced into this parliament.
The work has not stopped on tackling those many issues in respect of the rise in public liability premiums and professional indemnity. Officials and ministers from all jurisdictions are continuing to work on that.
Unfortunately, with public liability and professional indemnity, there is no easy answer. We are at a very tough end of the cycle and a whole range of reforms and initiatives have to be put in place and, unfortunately, right across Australia, no government can say to their community that these will mean that premiums will come down. The great expectation of these wide ranging changes is that premiums won’t go up and hopefully, over time, premiums will come down.
It is a very important issue for our community, whether you are a community organisation or a business, whether you are a gynaecologist, whatever form of medical practice you are in, and it is certainly one that, right across Australia, governments are tackling, and doing it cooperatively with the federal government.
Casuarina Coastal Reserve – Public Safety
Mr ELFERINK to MINISTER for PARKS and WILDLIFE
Minister, in August last year, you tabled a discussion paper, a 61-page management plan, for the Casuarina Coastal Reserve. You did so during Ministerial Reports with the knowledge that the opposition would have two minutes to read the report, digest it and respond to it. Minister, isn’t it true that you tabled the report in this fashion to hide from the public a serious issue of public safety? Isn’t it true that the report contained serious allegations of lewd sex, theft and drunkenness at Casuarina Beach that go to the very heart of the law and order problem which is flourishing under the Martin Labor government?
ANSWER
I thank the member for his question. It is an excellent question. I really congratulate him because the report for the Casuarina Coastal Reserve began to be drafted 18 months ago under the CLP government, so the majority of the allegations you made today were drafted under your very own government.
As for tabling the report, the Casuarina Coastal Reserve was declared under the Crown Lands Act, not the Territory Parks and Wildlife Conservation Act. If you had read a bit deeper into the situation, you would have found out that this government is not obliged to table the Casuarina Coastal Reserve Management Plan under the Crown Lands Act. It is different when you table a report for a national park that has been declared under Territory Parks. The only reason we tabled this report was for the information of members and for the public.
We would be really stupid to table a report that contains all these extraordinary matters that you referred you. The report was in the making for 18 months. The report was done 18 months before I tabled it in parliament. The first public consultations were actually held in March and April 2001. I took part in those consultations, and I remember being there with the then member for Casuarina, Peter Adamson.
There were other consultations after that, and the report was put on the shelf. When we came to government and I became the minister, I asked what happened to the Casuarina report, and the then Director of Territory Parks and Wildlife Commission told me he didn’t want to put it out because the elections were coming. They were his exact words.
Members interjecting.
Mr VATSKALIS: So what you tell us today, that there are all these crimes, was already in the text. The text was drafted when your own party was in government. What is recorded in the report, the drunkenness was happening before, lewd acts of sex were happening before.
What we have done now, because we are aware of these issues, is that we have taken measures under this management plan to eliminate drunkenness. We have limited the time you can actually drink alcohol in the park in accordance with the same conditions as the city of Darwin. We have also applied, in the reserve, our own by-laws and also the Summary Offences Act and we are cooperating with the police to increase patrols. We also intend to employ Aboriginal rangers to patrol the area to eliminate the issue of itinerants. There were continuous complaints about the Casuarina Coastal Reserve and we are the ones who really moved to do something about it because you either didn’t want to or were unable to do anything about it.
Mandorah Boat Ramp
Mr BONSON to MINISTER for TRANSPORT and INFRASTRUCTURE
Can the minister update the House on progress on building a boat ramp at Mandorah?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I can give two answers. They are very short answers since the opposition is very keen to hear short answers. Well: I came, I saw, I conquered. That is the brief one.
The long one: I came to government, I saw that you had done nothing in so many years, despite your promises, and I made the decision that the ramp will be put in place.
Members interjecting.
Mr VATSKALIS: Not only that, but the reason you had done nothing was because, once again, you had tangled yourself in the issue of native title and you couldn’t resolve it with the land council. It took only a few meetings to resolve the issues. The Northern Land Council acknowledged that the ramp was an important facility for the whole community, and they agreed for it to go ahead. The tender has been advertised and it is going to be constructed within the next three months. I invite any member who likes fishing to come down with me and we will go to Mandorah and have a few drinks, too.
Tank Farm – Carey Street
Mr WOOD to MINISTER for LANDS and PLANNING
My question is to the Minister for Rome - I am sorry, for Lands and Planning. Minister, three residential towers are being built by the Defence Force on Carey Street. A 20-storey block of units has been recently approved in the same area subject to conditions. Three fuel tanks still occupy land in close proximity to these towers, one as close as about 20 metres. What is stored in these tanks? Will people be allowed to occupy these units before these tanks are removed? Why haven’t these tanks been removed, when will they be moved to East Arm and at what cost to government?
ANSWER
I thank the member for his question. I was also concerned when we came to government about the construction of these towers that are being constructed by the Defence Housing Authority in such close proximity to the tanks. However, I was advised when the plans went to the Development Consent Authority for approval, all these issues were addressed not only after they are occupied but during construction as well, because let’s not forget, it takes several months for the towers to be constructed and a number of workers will be working on those towers. I was assured by the Development Consent Authority that these issues were taken into account. The Work Health Authority was consulted and the towers are actually outside the danger zone of the tanks.
With regards to the tank farm, the Martin government is trying very hard to bring the three companies to the table to negotiate when and how they are going to move to the new joint user facility in East Arm. These negotiations started about three years ago and the companies were very close to an agreement. However, the CLP administration then delayed signature of this agreement and, as a result, one of the companies was sold to overseas interests, and the overseas interests …
Mr Dunham: Another one he conquered.
Mr VATSKALIS: Oh probably may not remember about Exxon purchasing Mobil and deciding not to spend any money in Australia as a result, Mobil pulled out leaving BP. BP did not want to undertake the risk by themselves.
However, I would like to say that we would like the tanks to move out of that area by the end of 2003 or 2004. I also would like to remind members that as residential development is approaching in the area, things will change significantly in the next few months because, with the introduction of noise legislation, companies might find they are not able to bring road tankers in the city any time, day or night, to unload and load oil, petrol or diesel. Also, we might see a serious impact about the lighting, and the company might find it very easy and preferential to move to the new joint user facility than staying there.
The other thing, of course, is, the joint user facility in East Arm, which cost a lot of money for the government to construct, the wharfage rates might have to go up if companies decide not to go to the other side of the harbour, but stay here. Also, I am not going to be afraid to call for expressions of interest for an independent supplier to come to Darwin, and I am prepared to do so. Where there is a will, there is a way. This government has the will and we will find a way to do it.
NT Police - Establishment
Mr MALEY to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
Minister, according to the Annual Report of Police, Fire and Emergency Services presented to you on 30 September last year, the number of sworn officers at 30 June 2001 was 811. After 12 months of your administration, police numbers have fallen to 753 in September this year, according to the figures you provided to the Estimates Committee. Does this huge loss of numbers compromise both the safety of the officers themselves and the safety and protection of Territorians?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, we have had a fair bit of mischief in and around police numbers, without any quantification as to exactly what they are talking about, whether they are constables or whether they include Aboriginal Community Police Officers and police auxiliaries.
When we came to government, the establishment of the police force in the Northern Territory stood at 940. It has now shifted up 10 to 950, and over the course of the life of this first term Labor government, with those extra 50 police on deck, the establishment, somewhere in 2005 at the completion of this government’s first term of office, would then be 990.
Recruitment and training activity will be structured and will take place over the life of this government to reflect that commitment so that at some point in 2005 there will be 990 against that establishment figure of 940 when we commenced. The process was 10 in the first year, 10 in the second year, 10 in the third year and 20 to come in on the last year.
Last week, in fact, the Leader of the Opposition was at Marrara Stadium to see 25 come off a recruit course and go into police stations all around the Territory. He may not know that as at the 14th of this month, there will be 29 recruits going into the Police Academy at Berrimah with a further recruit course to commence in January. Figures for that are not finalised - recruitment action is still being undertaken - but you would expect if we started that one with 27, 25 come through. The next one has 29, so you would expect somewhere between 25 and 29 to come through that one in January. They will be on deck in June.
You can pick a snapshot in time and run that to your advantage. The fact is the Leader of the Opposition was there, he saw 25 come out of the academy and go into police stations across the Northern Territory. I hope he, or a representative of the opposition, will be there when this intake that goes in on 14 October graduates in six months’ time. I hope he will also be there in June when the January intake comes out, somewhere around over 30 officers.
You can add them up, you can put that against attrition. Attrition does not vary a great deal, it swings in and around 8% per year. If you did have a heavier rate of attrition in any one year, you would pick up the recruitment activity and run either your recruit courses closer together, or keep the numbers to the maximum level that you can get through on any one recruit course. There is no great science or deep understanding to it. You watch those rates. If it jumped, you would take recruitment and training activity, perhaps, more closely together than you otherwise might.
The commitment was to lift numbers by 50 over the term of this government. 940 was the establishment figure when we came into office in August last year, 990 it will be at the end of this government’s first term of office.
Ethnic Affairs Sponsorship Program
Dr BURNS to MINISTER for ETHNIC AFFAIRS
Minister, can you advise on progress on the 2002-03 Ethnic Affairs Sponsorship Program budget?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his question. As you are aware, the Martin government has increased funding for the Ethnic Affairs Sponsorship Program by $250 000, bringing it to $697 000 per year.
The first round of sponsorship programs has now been finalised and approved, and I approved 35 sponsorships for a total value of $345 000. This money went to a number of organisations, not only ethnic organisations, but organisations that provide services to people of non-English speaking background such as the Multicultural Council of the Northern Territory and the Trauma and Torture Survival Centre. The lowest grant was a quick response grant of $525 and the highest was $40 000 for the Multicultural Council of the Northern Territory.
The second round of submission of applications has been invited through advertisements in the newspapers, the NT News and the Centralian Advocate in September, and the cut-off date for the submissions is 15 October. I invite any ethnic organisation or organisations that provides services to non-English speaking background persons to submit an application for these grants. All the money that is allocated to different organisations has to be appropriately acquitted, and we are very, very strict about that because we do not just hand money out; we want the communities to tell us what they are doing with the money.
I invite all members of parliament who have ethnic people from non-English speaking backgrounds in their electorate to advise those people and organisations to put in an application for these grants. After all, this money belongs to all Territorians and is for Territorians.
NT Police – Establishment, Palmerston
Mr MILLS to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
Minister, you told the Estimates Committee that at Palmerston Police Station the establishment is 45 police officers, yet the current strength is 40. Of that 40, there are only 27 members available for full-time duty, and all sergeant positions are being filled by constables. How can you assure Palmerston and rural residents that their community is being adequately policed when their police station is 40% undermanned?
ANSWER
I can give that assurance, Madam Speaker. Unfortunately, the member for Blain wasn’t there at that graduation along with the Leader of the Opposition, as I was. It was either five, from memory going through the book, it may have even been seven who were going directly to Palmerston from that recruit graduation.
This idea that there are so many officers on establishment, this whole question of establishment per station is – and if I used the terminology in the Estimates Committee, I may have been a bit loose-mouthed because in subsequent discussion - now this goes back – I wouldn’t laugh too much, member for Katherine, because this goes back to your mismanagement, your lack of understanding of how the police force works.
I don’t, as minister, and nor did he tell the Police Commissioner of the day how many he should have per station or where they should be deployed. We certainly do not do that because they are operational matters. But this whole question of establishment, when I started to ask a few questions and discuss with the Commissioner has never been gazetted. Never been gazetted, any of these establishment per station. There are global figures, say, for the Darwin area or the southern region or the different regions. So this idea of, you must have, or your establishment figure is X or 54 or 102 at Palmerston on any one day is all a bit glib because there is a whole and greater Darwin region to be taken into consideration here.
The member for Blain well knows that on any day of any week in any organisation there will be people on sick leave, recreation leave, maternity leave, long service leave, there will be people in court for that day and not necessarily at their normal place of work. I am assured by the Commissioner that the resources are there to do the job. Police always want more resources. The Police Association has been on the record in the past three years at least to my knowledge, saying that the police force needs 150 extra police. It is a line that they stick to. We have talked with them and worked with them on this issue. They accepted in good faith the fact that we would be bringing 50 extra over the term of this government. They say it is not enough – that is their view.
The Police Commissioner himself is having an internal review and a continuous improvement program on the back of that internal review by senior management. I am sure that these issues will be to the forefront of that review over the 12 to 18 months that he intends taking to do it.
Air Freight Capacity ex-Darwin
Mr BONSON to MINISTER for PRIMARY INDUSTRY and FISHERIES
Can the minister inform the House on recent events regarding the air freight capacity out of Darwin?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Millner for his question. It is a question that is relevant not only to my Department of Primary Industry and Fisheries, but also for the small business and business community generally in the Northern Territory.
A couple of weeks ago we had Qantas announcing that it was going to significantly reduce the number of wide bodied planes that they were placing on their routes from Darwin to Sydney, Darwin to Brisbane and were going to reduce by 10 the number of 767s on those routes and replace them with 737s. With that move, they were going to increase passenger capacity, but what they did not factor into that decision was the dramatic reduction it would have in freight capacity out of Darwin, particularly at this time of year for our primary industry producers trying to get product into the market place in Sydney. The effect of that planned change in planes was essentially going to lead to a 49 000 kg a week freight capacity reduction from Darwin, which really would have created a fair amount of havoc and potentially even put some of our smaller producers out of business.
What we are seeing at the moment with the primary industry sector in the Northern Territory; what is happening with the growth of our produce, particularly coming from the Katherine/Daly region with increased aquaculture capacity, the commercial fishing industry increasing, is that we have to get our products into the market place. When we are talking about ultra-fresh produce, the only way to do that is via air capacity.
We see that at the moment it is passenger capacity which is driving yield, and that is where the airlines are at this point in time. We cannot look at it in isolation from September 11 and the Ansett collapse. A number that was brought to my attention a few weeks ago is that the international aviation industry has lost $US10bn worth of its market capitalisation in 12 months. That can only impact globally and we are not immune from that.
I recently had the pleasure of opening AusExport, a new seafood exporting business set up by Chris Weishaupt, and that was a fantastic facility, but he is looking to get his fish into the market place in Sydney as well as overseas. Certainly, the talk around that opening was that freight was the single biggest issue.
Negotiations I managed to achieve with Qantas management in Sydney was to reverse nearly 50% of that decision; they have put an additional three flights back on. We restored 21 000 kilos of the capacity that they were going to take out, and certainly making them very aware that it is not just passenger loadings they need to be considering when making scheduling and plane type decisions into and out of the Northern Territory, they also have to look at the freight side of the equation. They have agreed to formally work with us prior to making any such decisions that will impact on freight in the future.
The broader issue here is that we have to get additional services into the Northern Territory. We have to increase competition, restricting the cabotage provisions to allow international carriers to collect freight and passengers in Darwin on the way through to southern ports. I have raised the issue on two occasions now with the federal Transport Minister. I have had no reply, unfortunately. I have also raised the issue with the federal Tourism Minister who agreed that it was an issue and something that we need to look at.
I believe that if we were to very carefully look at our obligations under World Trade Organisation principles and obligations that Australia has, as well as National Competition Policy principles, an open skies policy and allowing those international carriers to make a business decision as to whether to land here or not is something that we should be doing.
Madam Speaker, it is ongoing. We are very hopeful within the next week to be able to announce our Aviation Executive Officer who will work with us, industry and the airport to really up the ante with the airlines in terms of crunching the numbers that can prove to the airlines that there is a viable and profitable business in terms of flying to the Northern Territory. I was pleased that Qantas did heed the call and replace some of that reduced capacity. We as a government and myself as a minister will continue to fight for small business in the Northern Territory.
Mr STIRLING (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I ask that further questions be placed on the Question Paper.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016