Mr CONLAN - 2008-09-11
The opposition has obtained another highly embarrassing report into the poor treatment of nurses by RDH management following an incident at the hospital. The Ombudsman’s report has found that the Royal Darwin Hospital and the Department of Health and Community Services …
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order; Madam Speaker! I suspect the report that the shadow Health minister is referring to is the one that is currently the subject of sub judice proceedings.
Mr ELFERINK: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker. I refer you to page 507 of the House of Representatives Practice, which deals with sub judice issues in the civil courts. I quote to you Speaker Sneddon who basically says that civil matters are a much lower standard than criminal matters, and the sub judice protocols of this House apply in a much lower level. I urge you, Madam Speaker, to find in favour of Territorians who need to know what is in that report, and a Health Minister who needs to know what is in that report.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Greatorex, can I listen to the question again, please? You have a copy of the report, do you?
Mr CONLAN: I have a report here, which I am happy to table.
Madam SPEAKER: I will seek some advice on this from the Clerk. Honourable members, I have sought some advice on this. If the member for Greatorex wishes to seek leave to table the report, I will allow him to do so. However, I would like to make a couple of comments first.
I understand that the Office of the Attorney-General has advised that the current status of the court proceedings flowing from the statement of claim between David Ashbridge and the Ombudsman is that preliminary hearings have been conducted and further hearings are scheduled for 23 September 2008, and there is presently an agreement between the two parties that the interim draft investigation report not be published.
I am very aware that this report is the subject of current court proceedings asking for a permanent injunction to restrict publication of this report. I am also aware that some of the report appears to have been published in the NT News. I will allow you to seek leave to table the report, but I will not allow it to be made public until I have received urgent advice from the Solicitor-General, as I am aware the report will contain names of ordinary Australian citizens who have no opportunity to respond in this place, and it could unfairly and unjustly name them.
Mr CONLAN: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will ask the question again.
Madam SPEAKER: Do you wish to seek leave to table the report?
Mr CONLAN: Madam Speaker, I seek leave to table this report.
Leave denied.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order! Member for Port Darwin, you are on a warning. This parliament has procedural …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order, Deputy Chief Minister! Member for Greatorex, you may start your question again.
Mr CONLAN: This very embarrassing Ombudsman’s report found the Royal Darwin Hospital and the Department of Health and Community Services has misled the HCSCC ...
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Madam Speaker! The question goes to the content of a report that is currently sub judice.
Members interjecting.
Ms LAWRIE: He was just referring to the draft report in the question.
Madam SPEAKER: Please resume your seat. We will hear what the question is and then I will make a decision.
Mr CONLAN: Madam Speaker, the question is: why has the Department of Health wasted thousands and thousands of taxpayers’ dollars to take the Ombudsman’s Office to the Supreme Court to keep you from seeing it, minister? What are you doing to address the culture of cover up in your department, or do you condone this sort of behaviour?
Madam SPEAKER: Please resume your seat, I am seeking advice.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order! Minister for Health, I will allow the question.
Dr BURNS: Thank you, Madam Speaker. To clarify the situation and the question asked by the member for Greatorex, this is actually …
Members interjecting.
Dr BURNS: Please listen. What I am going to say here is very important. This is a draft report, from the Ombudsman, and …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Dr BURNS: Please give me the courtesy and listen to the reply that I have. You have asked a question, and I will respond to it in a very direct way.
This is a draft report. The usual process with one of these reports, where there is an adverse finding between the Ombudsman and an agency, is that there is a process of negotiation between the agency and Ombudsman about the contents and findings of the report. That has been going on for years, long before we ever came to government. Once agreement is reached, that report is then tabled in the Legislative Assembly. So, it is not for me, it is for this whole Assembly ...
Members interjecting..
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Madam Speaker! There are members who are on their second warning who are still interrupting.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order, member for Greatorex!
Dr BURNS: Madam Speaker, I am keen to answer this question. The major issue of conflict between the department and the Ombudsman is around the naming and comments made about some nursing staff at Royal Darwin Hospital …
Members interjecting.
Dr BURNS: No, let me finish, please. You have asked the question.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Drysdale, I ask you to leave the Chamber for one hour.
Dr BURNS: Madam Speaker, I will resume. Some assertions and statements within the Ombudsman’s report were thought to be defamatory towards two nursing staff at Royal Darwin Hospital who felt that they had not been afforded natural justice to respond to them. It is not only the department that is involved in this legal action, it is also Counsel for some of the nurses that are involved. The issue …
Mr Tollner interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Fong Lim, cease interjecting!
Dr BURNS: The issue at stake here is not findings around the original incident, which was a fall at Royal Darwin Hospital in 2003, and the department has accepted those elements of the report. The issue and the court case revolves around these defamatory statements. The department contends that they are defamatory, because this is …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order!
Dr BURNS: This is a very important issue, because the department wishes to protect the interests of its employees who feel that they have been defamed.
There is another issue at stake here ...
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Dr BURNS: That is, by tabling this report …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Please resume your seat, minister.
Honourable members, there are only a few minutes left in Question Time, but I am very concerned about the level of disorder in the Chamber. I ask that for the next few minutes members listen to the answer to this question with as much orderliness as possible.
Dr BURNS: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The last thing I ask the member for Greatorex to consider in his wish to table the document, is that this document is a draft, first of all and, second, this is a document of this whole parliament to be tabled in here following an appropriate process which is laid out in certain acts. You are trying to short circuit it. I am not trying to avoid what is in that report. I will face that when it comes up ...
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Dr BURNS: The crucial issue before the Supreme Court of the Northern Territory is that the Department of Health is contending that some of the statements within that report are defamatory against nurses at Royal Darwin Hospital.
Ms LAWRIE (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I ask that further questions be placed on the Written Question Paper.
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order; Madam Speaker! I suspect the report that the shadow Health minister is referring to is the one that is currently the subject of sub judice proceedings.
Mr ELFERINK: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker. I refer you to page 507 of the House of Representatives Practice, which deals with sub judice issues in the civil courts. I quote to you Speaker Sneddon who basically says that civil matters are a much lower standard than criminal matters, and the sub judice protocols of this House apply in a much lower level. I urge you, Madam Speaker, to find in favour of Territorians who need to know what is in that report, and a Health Minister who needs to know what is in that report.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Greatorex, can I listen to the question again, please? You have a copy of the report, do you?
Mr CONLAN: I have a report here, which I am happy to table.
Madam SPEAKER: I will seek some advice on this from the Clerk. Honourable members, I have sought some advice on this. If the member for Greatorex wishes to seek leave to table the report, I will allow him to do so. However, I would like to make a couple of comments first.
I understand that the Office of the Attorney-General has advised that the current status of the court proceedings flowing from the statement of claim between David Ashbridge and the Ombudsman is that preliminary hearings have been conducted and further hearings are scheduled for 23 September 2008, and there is presently an agreement between the two parties that the interim draft investigation report not be published.
I am very aware that this report is the subject of current court proceedings asking for a permanent injunction to restrict publication of this report. I am also aware that some of the report appears to have been published in the NT News. I will allow you to seek leave to table the report, but I will not allow it to be made public until I have received urgent advice from the Solicitor-General, as I am aware the report will contain names of ordinary Australian citizens who have no opportunity to respond in this place, and it could unfairly and unjustly name them.
Mr CONLAN: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I will ask the question again.
Madam SPEAKER: Do you wish to seek leave to table the report?
Mr CONLAN: Madam Speaker, I seek leave to table this report.
Leave denied.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order! Member for Port Darwin, you are on a warning. This parliament has procedural …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order, Deputy Chief Minister! Member for Greatorex, you may start your question again.
Mr CONLAN: This very embarrassing Ombudsman’s report found the Royal Darwin Hospital and the Department of Health and Community Services has misled the HCSCC ...
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Madam Speaker! The question goes to the content of a report that is currently sub judice.
Members interjecting.
Ms LAWRIE: He was just referring to the draft report in the question.
Madam SPEAKER: Please resume your seat. We will hear what the question is and then I will make a decision.
Mr CONLAN: Madam Speaker, the question is: why has the Department of Health wasted thousands and thousands of taxpayers’ dollars to take the Ombudsman’s Office to the Supreme Court to keep you from seeing it, minister? What are you doing to address the culture of cover up in your department, or do you condone this sort of behaviour?
Madam SPEAKER: Please resume your seat, I am seeking advice.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order! Minister for Health, I will allow the question.
Dr BURNS: Thank you, Madam Speaker. To clarify the situation and the question asked by the member for Greatorex, this is actually …
Members interjecting.
Dr BURNS: Please listen. What I am going to say here is very important. This is a draft report, from the Ombudsman, and …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Dr BURNS: Please give me the courtesy and listen to the reply that I have. You have asked a question, and I will respond to it in a very direct way.
This is a draft report. The usual process with one of these reports, where there is an adverse finding between the Ombudsman and an agency, is that there is a process of negotiation between the agency and Ombudsman about the contents and findings of the report. That has been going on for years, long before we ever came to government. Once agreement is reached, that report is then tabled in the Legislative Assembly. So, it is not for me, it is for this whole Assembly ...
Members interjecting..
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Ms LAWRIE: A point of order, Madam Speaker! There are members who are on their second warning who are still interrupting.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order, member for Greatorex!
Dr BURNS: Madam Speaker, I am keen to answer this question. The major issue of conflict between the department and the Ombudsman is around the naming and comments made about some nursing staff at Royal Darwin Hospital …
Members interjecting.
Dr BURNS: No, let me finish, please. You have asked the question.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Member for Drysdale, I ask you to leave the Chamber for one hour.
Dr BURNS: Madam Speaker, I will resume. Some assertions and statements within the Ombudsman’s report were thought to be defamatory towards two nursing staff at Royal Darwin Hospital who felt that they had not been afforded natural justice to respond to them. It is not only the department that is involved in this legal action, it is also Counsel for some of the nurses that are involved. The issue …
Mr Tollner interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Fong Lim, cease interjecting!
Dr BURNS: The issue at stake here is not findings around the original incident, which was a fall at Royal Darwin Hospital in 2003, and the department has accepted those elements of the report. The issue and the court case revolves around these defamatory statements. The department contends that they are defamatory, because this is …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order!
Dr BURNS: This is a very important issue, because the department wishes to protect the interests of its employees who feel that they have been defamed.
There is another issue at stake here ...
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Dr BURNS: That is, by tabling this report …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Please resume your seat, minister.
Honourable members, there are only a few minutes left in Question Time, but I am very concerned about the level of disorder in the Chamber. I ask that for the next few minutes members listen to the answer to this question with as much orderliness as possible.
Dr BURNS: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The last thing I ask the member for Greatorex to consider in his wish to table the document, is that this document is a draft, first of all and, second, this is a document of this whole parliament to be tabled in here following an appropriate process which is laid out in certain acts. You are trying to short circuit it. I am not trying to avoid what is in that report. I will face that when it comes up ...
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Dr BURNS: The crucial issue before the Supreme Court of the Northern Territory is that the Department of Health is contending that some of the statements within that report are defamatory against nurses at Royal Darwin Hospital.
Ms LAWRIE (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I ask that further questions be placed on the Written Question Paper.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016