Mr ELFERINK - 2010-05-04
In Budget Paper No 2, it says the government has made, ‘… provisions for a series of debt or equity swaps with the Power and Water Corporation (PWC), over the budget and forward estimates period, …’. Is this not a capitulation to the truth that if Power and Water were a private company it would not be able to service its debts?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member opposite for the question. Clearly, they do not understand the importance of the supply and reliability of the power supply and also to meet demand in growth. Power and Water made a new generation investment decision which, as Treasurer, I have supported, because I am the shareholding minister for Power and Water, to get ahead of the game, purchase new generators and put them in at Channel Island, so we not only improve power reliability, but we also get ahead of the growth curve in terms of power supply, particularly in this strong growth market the Top End has. Obviously, we have a significant expenditure in Alice Springs as well with the Owen Springs station.
It is not unusual for governments to do debt to equity swaps. We have done that with the significant generation purchase. Debt to equity swaps were commonplace, I am advised, in the 1990s when the CLP was in government. Anyone who had had ministerial experience on that side – oh, let me check it out – oops, no, no one – would know that, would know the history of debt to equity swaps in terms of the government providing the capacity for the government-owned utility, Power and Water Corporation, to purchase significant capital items to ensure they are meeting the needs of the consumer, the consumer being the mums and dads in the suburbs …
Mr ELFERINK: A point of order, Madam Speaker! The question, at its simplest, only required a yes or no answer. I remind you of Standing Order 113.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Port Darwin, you would be aware that no minister may be asked a yes or no question. Minister, you have the call.
Mr ELFERINK: In that case, Madam Speaker, the question should be withdrawn. She can sit down and we can get on with the rest of the day, rather than listening to the stuff she is coming out with, because she is not being close to honest with this House.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Port Darwin, resume your seat. You are on a warning.
Ms LAWRIE: Madam Speaker, indeed, I am being honest in talking about the debt to equity swap the government has undertaken in terms of the Power and Water Corporation to meet their new generation strategy …
Mr TOLLNER: A point of order, Madam Speaker! Could you clarify why we cannot ask a question that requires a yes or no answer?
Madam SPEAKER: Which standing order are you referring to?
Mr TOLLNER: I am curious about relevance to the question, Madam Speaker, and I am also curious about your last ruling as to why we cannot now ask a question which demands a yes or no answer.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Fong Lim, resume your seat. Minister, if you could come to the point fairly quickly.
Ms LAWRIE: Absolutely, Madam Speaker. I have explained the debt to equity swap we have made with Power and Water. I have explained the reason why, which is the new generation strategy. I have also explained that it is commonplace between Territory governments and the government-owned utility of Power and Water Corporation to undertake debt to equity swaps.
Dr BURNS (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I ask that further questions be placed on the Written Question Paper.
Mr ELFERINK: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I require guidance from you in relation to your last ruling as to why I cannot ask a question that requires a yes or no answer? I just need some guidance in the standing orders; I am wondering if you can help me?
Madam SPEAKER: I will seek some advice, but this is a long-standing convention, member for Port Darwin.
Mr Elferink: No, it is not, Madam Speaker, it is not a convention at all.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Port Darwin, it is a long-standing convention.
Mr Elferink: There are examples where ministers have chosen to say yes or no.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order! Member for Port Darwin, I will make a considered judgment on this, but it certainly has been a convention ...
Mr Tollner interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Fong Lim, you may find that amusing; however, I am merely responding to the member for Port Darwin. I will make a considered opinion on this, and I will write to members about it.
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member opposite for the question. Clearly, they do not understand the importance of the supply and reliability of the power supply and also to meet demand in growth. Power and Water made a new generation investment decision which, as Treasurer, I have supported, because I am the shareholding minister for Power and Water, to get ahead of the game, purchase new generators and put them in at Channel Island, so we not only improve power reliability, but we also get ahead of the growth curve in terms of power supply, particularly in this strong growth market the Top End has. Obviously, we have a significant expenditure in Alice Springs as well with the Owen Springs station.
It is not unusual for governments to do debt to equity swaps. We have done that with the significant generation purchase. Debt to equity swaps were commonplace, I am advised, in the 1990s when the CLP was in government. Anyone who had had ministerial experience on that side – oh, let me check it out – oops, no, no one – would know that, would know the history of debt to equity swaps in terms of the government providing the capacity for the government-owned utility, Power and Water Corporation, to purchase significant capital items to ensure they are meeting the needs of the consumer, the consumer being the mums and dads in the suburbs …
Mr ELFERINK: A point of order, Madam Speaker! The question, at its simplest, only required a yes or no answer. I remind you of Standing Order 113.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Port Darwin, you would be aware that no minister may be asked a yes or no question. Minister, you have the call.
Mr ELFERINK: In that case, Madam Speaker, the question should be withdrawn. She can sit down and we can get on with the rest of the day, rather than listening to the stuff she is coming out with, because she is not being close to honest with this House.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Port Darwin, resume your seat. You are on a warning.
Ms LAWRIE: Madam Speaker, indeed, I am being honest in talking about the debt to equity swap the government has undertaken in terms of the Power and Water Corporation to meet their new generation strategy …
Mr TOLLNER: A point of order, Madam Speaker! Could you clarify why we cannot ask a question that requires a yes or no answer?
Madam SPEAKER: Which standing order are you referring to?
Mr TOLLNER: I am curious about relevance to the question, Madam Speaker, and I am also curious about your last ruling as to why we cannot now ask a question which demands a yes or no answer.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Fong Lim, resume your seat. Minister, if you could come to the point fairly quickly.
Ms LAWRIE: Absolutely, Madam Speaker. I have explained the debt to equity swap we have made with Power and Water. I have explained the reason why, which is the new generation strategy. I have also explained that it is commonplace between Territory governments and the government-owned utility of Power and Water Corporation to undertake debt to equity swaps.
Dr BURNS (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I ask that further questions be placed on the Written Question Paper.
Mr ELFERINK: A point of order, Madam Speaker! I require guidance from you in relation to your last ruling as to why I cannot ask a question that requires a yes or no answer? I just need some guidance in the standing orders; I am wondering if you can help me?
Madam SPEAKER: I will seek some advice, but this is a long-standing convention, member for Port Darwin.
Mr Elferink: No, it is not, Madam Speaker, it is not a convention at all.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Port Darwin, it is a long-standing convention.
Mr Elferink: There are examples where ministers have chosen to say yes or no.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order! Order! Member for Port Darwin, I will make a considered judgment on this, but it certainly has been a convention ...
Mr Tollner interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Fong Lim, you may find that amusing; however, I am merely responding to the member for Port Darwin. I will make a considered opinion on this, and I will write to members about it.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016