2002-05-22
Fire and Rescue Service – Enterprise Bargaining Agreement
Mr BURKE to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
The Northern Territory Fire and Rescue Service was engaged in negotiating enterprise bargaining agreements in the run-up to the Northern Territory election. Given that all enterprise bargaining agreements, other than the Northern Territory Fire and Rescue Service, were concluded last year, resulting in an across-the-board pay rise for all public service employees, why has an EBA with the Northern Territory Fire and Rescue Service not been settled - given that your government has had the best part of a year to resolve the EBA – and the only outstanding issues relate to basic safety equipment and a structured career path?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his question. I, too, share his disappointment that the enterprise bargaining process in respect of Northern Territory Fire and Rescue Service has not been satisfactorily negotiated through to this point.
I have the highest regard for firefighters in the Northern Territory. They stand ready on any given day, 24 hours a day, in fact, to go and protect life and property on those occasions when it is required; whether its vehicle accidents, fires or whatever emergency presents itself. We took a view, in opposition, that we have translated to policy in bringing on an additional 16 firefighters over the life of this government, something that we urged our predecessors to do on many occasions, despite the fact that it was many, many years – some 18 or 19 years earlier – a report had been tabled saying that there ought to be additional firefighters in the Northern Territory. I put that question to the former Minister for Police, Fire and Emergency Services a number of times from the opposition benches, to no avail. We bit the bullet on that, and we said we will bring an additional 16 firefighters into the service over the term of the life of this government.
A proposed agreement in relation to the EBA was put to employees in December 2001. I was very keen to have this wrapped up before Christmas, and disappointingly, that has not been the case. That was voted down. The members have the right to vote that down, that is the process. Management offered to reopen negotiations in February, with a view to reaching a revised agreement. There have been meetings between management and the union representing firefighters since then in an attempt to clarify and sort out these issues of difference between the parties.
A revised claim from the union was only received less than two weeks ago, and a meeting scheduled for this very week. That meeting has been put back until next Monday when the union further revise the terms of the claim.
Mr Burke: When do you think you will settle it?
Mr STIRLING: If the Leader of the Opposition is fair dinkum …
Mr Burke: Oh, come on, it is nearly a year.
Mr STIRLING: Do you want to hear the answer?
Madam SPEAKER: I am quite sure the members in the Gallery would like to hear the answer.
Mr STIRLING: When he is finished I will give them the answer.
The management – and, of course, the government – has been keen to reach agreement and to look at mechanisms to finally resolve these outstanding issues, which have been around – not since 27 August – they have been around for many years, unaddressed by our predecessors. Management is still hopeful that these issues – or at least a fair and proper mechanism and process for dealing with them – can be put in place.
Those key issues which still require resolution include: fire service lateral entry provisions – this issue relates to the recruitment of firefighters into the Northern Territory service; national competency standards; the length of the agreement the EBA should go over; the quantum of the increase; and the deployment of those 16 additional firefighters that we are going to bring into the service. Within the fire service itself, and the membership, there has been discussion and debate about which union they are covered by. They have traditionally been covered by the Miscellaneous Workers Union. There have been difficulties in that relationship over recent times, and some consideration going to whether another union may be a better place for them to have membership to advance their issues and concerns.
Government does not have a view on that – no view at all. That is absolutely up to the members. There are industrial relations laws and processes in place by which the membership can put its case, and that is a process that takes some time but which, if they want to go that way, they will go that way. We do not support or oppose their efforts in that regard. It is simply our role and responsibility to negotiate with the union that has coverage of the firefighters at a given time. At this point in time, it remains the Miscellaneous Workers Union. Under the Workplace Relations Act, management is required to negotiate directly with the union which has responded to the fire service award. Management has to follow due process under that act, as must the employees, to reach an agreement, certified at the end of the day by the Industrial Relations Commission. We clearly understand that, and we understand that the membership and the employees would clearly understand that too. We do not seek to involve ourselves in any way in that issue.
I am disappointed, along with the Leader of the Opposition, but there will be a meeting next week and there will continue to be meetings until such time as those outstanding issues are resolved.
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Distinguished Visitors
Madam SPEAKER: Honourable members, I would like to advise you of the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of the Defence Industry Study Course participants, accompanied by Mr Barry Coulter, Chairman of the Defence Industry Study Course, former member of the Northern Territory Legislative Assembly and former Deputy Chief Minister; and Shandelle Judd, Coordinator of the Defence Industry Study Course. On behalf of all honourable members, I extend you a warm welcome.
Members: Hear, hear!
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HIH Insurance Levy
Mr MILLS to MINISTER for EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION and TRAINING
Less than 36 hours ago, Territory businesses were made aware of some very significant facts: one, that the HIH levy is now significantly less – in fact, half of what it was originally intended to be this time last year. Secondly, it was made aware of the fact that Territory Treasury is now in receipt of an additional $150m in revenue.
In terms of a government, the Labor Martin government of which, minister, you are a representative, you stand charged with lying to the Territory in terms of standing up before …
Mr STIRLING: A point of order, Madam Speaker! He can do so, he can clearly accuse me of lying if he wants to accompany it with a substantive motion.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Blain, you know better than that. You know you are not allowed to use those terms in the question, unless you are leading into a censure motion.
Members interjecting.
Mr MILLS: Don’t you want to hear this question?
Madam SPEAKER: Re-phrase it.
Mr MILLS: Madam Speaker, I move to the degree that we have had responses from Territory businesses in the order of 500 responses in less than 36 hours supporting the position and the allegation that I make of lying before the people of the Northern Territory.
Madam SPEAKER: Member for Blain, you were just asked not to say that. Withdraw that remark. You cannot make an allegation of lying. You have been told that. Do not do it.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: You are on a warning. Withdraw, or you are out.
Mr MILLS: In reference …
Madam SPEAKER: Withdraw!
Members interjecting.
Mr MILLS: I would prefer to let it stand and leave.
Madam SPEAKER: All right. Under Standing Order 240A, you are suspended for one hour from the Chamber. I consider that a most unnecessary action when different words could have been used to get that message across. Members, we have been through this many times about unparliamentary terms. I expect when I give a ruling you at least have the courtesy to conform. I am very disappointed in you, member for Blain.
Minister, I won’t require you to answer that question.
Northern Territory Budget 2002-03
Mr KIELY to CHIEF MINISTER and TREASURER
Can the Treasurer please inform the House, coming into the 2002-03 budget, what measures are in place to ensure the budget will be open, transparent and contain numbers Territorians can trust?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, a very important question from the member for Sanderson, and one I thank him for. We will be able to trust the budget this year because of two things: because of the open and transparent commitment of this government, and also, a very small piece of legislation that was passed in this House last year, very similar to ones in other jurisdictions that establishes some fundamental principles about how budgets are formed and who actually writes the figures.
This government brought in Professor Percy Allan to look at how budgets are done in the Northern Territory. One of the key recommendations made by Professor Percy Allan, a former Under Treasurer for both Conservative and Labor governments in New South Wales, was the introduction of fiscal integrity and transparency legislation. It was after that Professor Allan had concluded that there was political interference in the budget and in the budget preparation. That act was passed in the November sittings last year and what it makes very clear and very explicit is that the responsibility of the Under Treasurer is the compiling of budget figures and estimates. It is not for the Treasurer, it is the Under Treasurer. The Under Treasurer compiles budget figures and forward estimates, something that hasn’t been happening in the past. So, not only does the Under Treasurer sign off on the figures, he or she must provide details of the assumptions that go towards those figures that are used to calculate the budget figures and the forward estimates.
Any such budgets and fiscal reports must spell out the government’s fiscal strategy and report against that strategy, as well as provide a reconciliation between the estimates and the actual figures, or significant revisions to forward estimates over time. It is very comprehensive and, as such, the budget documents, the budget figures and the forward estimates, those, under this government, will be independent of the government of the day. Those critical budget figures and the forward estimates will be independent of the government of the day, unlike we saw, only too sadly, 12 months ago. Government, quite properly, is responsible for setting the policies, that’s the role of government, but Treasury will be responsible for the costing of those policies, and that is set out very clearly in this small act of parliament which we passed last year.
Also in the future, Madam Speaker, again contained in that small act of parliament, that very important act of parliament, future elections won’t be conducted in the context as we saw the last one where the opposition and where Territorians were simply deceived going into that election by the true state of government finances.
Mr BURKE: A point of order, Madam Speaker! It is clear to see the thread of not only this question, but others that I anticipate will be asked, and that is that it contravenes standing order 68, and it anticipates debate that is already on the floor of this Chamber. I would also add, Madam Speaker, that it is most unfair …
Ms Martin: I am talking about this act.
Mr BURKE: No, the Chief Minister made an allegation about deceit and that is with regards to the reference to the Public Accounts Committee. I make the point, Madam Speaker, that I am quite happy for Territorians to hear all of this debate, but to run these allegations in Question Time, in a one-sided way, through the media and through the television, where the opposition has no opportunity to participate at all is absolutely wrong, and I would ask you to rule under standing order 68 that further questions along these lines be prevented.
Mr HENDERSON: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker. The question was in relation to the Fiscal Integrity and Transparency Act itself and the Chief Minister is responding in regard to that legislation, and also commenting on previous debate in the House and a document tabled before this House from Professor Percy Allan.
Madam SPEAKER: The Chief Minister knows that you cannot anticipate debate of anything that is on the Notice Paper, but I do not find that her remarks contravene that at the moment. I suggest to the Chief Minister she tempers her remarks to make sure she is not contravening that standing order.
Ms MARTIN: Madam Speaker, the importance of budgets as we move to our next budget in August, and the first full budget from this government, is something that is taking the attention of this government by the day, so to actually establish very firmly that this will be a very different budget from the last is something very critical to do. I am certainly saying nothing less than I said in this parliament when we actually brought in and passed the Fiscal Integrity and Transparency Act and I am just talking to aspects of that. The important thing that we have established in this bill is that the budget figures and the forward estimates will be done in Treasury, and policies done by government, quite appropriately.
Another part of this bill is that when we do go to elections, the opposition themselves, and Territorians generally, will be able to trust the figures that are in front of them because we have put new mechanisms in place. Once the writs for an election are issued, Treasury must release within 10 days a pre-election fiscal outlook report, and that is something we have never had before. That report must contain an update of the current financial year plus the future three years of forward estimates. The Treasurer will be obliged, under this act, this little act so dismissed by the former Treasurer, to supply Treasury with details of any government decision that could impact on the last budget figures that the Under Treasurer might not have known about. This fiscal outlook will be a very detailed, honest look at where the Territory’s finances are in those days before the election. The Under Treasurer must sign off on the pre-election fiscal outlook report.
Territorians can have confidence that, in the future, that the figures in budget papers and forward estimates will be the real ones, and that when we go to elections, there will be accountable financial figures in the public arena, unlike we saw last time.
Method of Purchasing School Text Books
Mr WOOD to MINISTER for BUSINESS, INDUSTRY and RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT
Minister, recently you and the Chief Minister attended a meeting of the Darwin Business Association. At the meeting you were asked a question by the manager of Bookworld regarding the way schools purchase their book supplies down south, precluding local book stores from receiving any of that business. In reply, you said you would look at the issue and that you would personally contact the owner about that issue. Minister, have you contacted the owner and what answer did you give him?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Nelson for his question. Yes, it was a pretty significant issue that came out of a very interesting meeting with over one hundred people from the Darwin Business Community. I can certainly assure the member for Nelson that my office has been in contact with the book store mentioned on three separate occasions. We have got to the bottom of what the particular issue was that was concerning that small business person at the time. The issue, as he raised it, was that the allegation was made that schools, under the government policy of devolution, were not compelled by government procurement regulations and were purchasing books and stationery interstate. It turns out that the specific reference, and I am not going to mention the two schools concerned, were new schools that have come on line in the Northern Territory over the last few years.
In terms of the initial equipping and stocking of those schools for the entire library and all of their stationery requirements, principals from those schools did go interstate and secure significant contracts for the re-equipping of those schools. It is not a general issue of schools ongoing in terms of purchasing books and stationery from interstate. These were two significant and large orders that did go interstate. I am liasing with my colleague, the minister for Education, about procurement policy for schools. It is an issue where school budgets are tight. Most schools I have spoken to, certainly I have spoken to the schools in my electorate, and spoken to other members who are in touch with their school councils, do have a buy local policy as a matter of course. But certainly, any business here in the Northern Territory has to be competitive under national competition policy, and I believe that, wherever possible, our whole community has a responsibility to support each other, to support local purchasing wherever possible.
We are going to be reviewing this issue in terms of the government review of procurement that is going on at the moment. We are in a position where we generally support the policy of devolution for schools, for schools to be able to make their own purchasing positions. In this case, where we have new schools coming on stream, where we have the initial stocking and equipping of those schools, liaising with the minister for Education, we are looking to ensure that, wherever possible, those schools are equipped and supplied through local retail outlets, wholesale outlets, wherever possible. So, yes, we have been in touch.
The issue is an important issue, but it is not as widespread as was potentially alluded to on that particular occasion. It was two schools that came on line that equipped themselves interstate, and certainly, as a philosophy it is not supported by this government. We do urge all Territorians, wherever possible, to support local companies, and that is a philosophy we will be taking through in a review of the procurement regulations that is going on at the moment.
Fire and Rescue Service - Recruitment Issues
Mr BURKE to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
In your last answer, minister, you explored, but not specifically, a whole range of issues that I would like to hear an answer on in more detail, not only myself, obviously, those who are listening and watching this debate. Minister, you mentioned a commitment to an additional 16 firefighters on shift over four years for the Darwin area. And in that election commitment at the time, you did not take into account the additional infrastructure needs such as the port and the fuel farm needs, and also the expanding infrastructure in the rural area.
Could you indicate what strategy is in place to recruit and train these additional personnel, given that the natural attrition rate in the Northern Territory Fire and Rescue Service is at present higher than the recruitment rate? And specifically, is it true that the government is going to make up the shortfall in numbers by employing trained interstate firefighters in preference to employing local applicants?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, in regard to the addition of the 16 over the four years - let’s be very clear. That is additional, on top of any attrition, so that if eight were to leave the fire service over this next year, those eight would be replaced, plus four, which would be one year’s complement of the additional 16. So the additional 16 is additional. If there were x number when we came to government, there is x plus 16 at the end of the four year term, and I don’t recall, in relation to that commitment by government, that they were to be Darwin based.
In relation to additional firefighters required as a result of infrastructure coming on line and a greater operational requirement that cannot be covered within the cap, that is the time when the management of the fire service would come to government. They would go through Police, Fire and Emergency Services in the first place to alert management that these are additional requirements coming on - nothing to do with the 16 extra that they are putting in there anyway - and put the case which would then, I imagine, come to me and go into the normal budgetary planning cycle. We would have to take the view of what is the extra ask, in relation to the extra infrastructure that did not exist before and does need a service. If it cannot be covered within the existing service, then government looks at it and makes a decision to resource or otherwise.
Mr Alec Campbell – Death of the Last Gallipoli Anzac
Mr McADAM to CHIEF MINISTER
Can the Chief Minister inform us of the steps the government has taken to mark the passing, at 101 years of age, of the last of Australia’s Gallipoli veterans, Mr Alec Campbell?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his question. We will add just a couple of years to Alec Campbell, he was, in fact, 103 when he died. The passing of the world’s last veteran from Gallipoli certainly is a very momentous occasion. Alec Campbell was 103 when he died in Hobart last Thursday night. It is interesting to note that he was the last, but the last Turkish survivor died in 1998 - that was Adil Sahin.
Alec Campbell leaves nine children, 30 grandchildren, 32 great-great-grandchildren and one great-great-grandchild. I would like to share with the House a little about Alec Campbell, because he certainly is a most significant figure in Australian history. Let’s learn a little bit more about him. He was born in 1899, and he volunteered to fight overseas in 1915, when he was only 16. On the beaches at Anzac Cove, he worked as a waterboy and later spent six months in hospital after contracting many illnesses during that Gallipoli campaign. He was evacuated back to Tasmania, and that enormous adventure of his life was over at the age of 17.
After that, he had a colourful career. He did things as varied as jackarooing; railway carriage builder; he was a carpenter and a union official; and actually rose to be the Tasmanian President of the Australian Workers Union. He then went on to the University of Tasmania, where he studied economics and got a job in the public sector. After World War II, he studied further in economics and later assisted disabled war veterans to find work. He was a sailor, was Alec Campbell. He sailed in six Sydney to Hobart yacht races. He rode horses, he hunted, he built boats and houses and, once he retired, he became an advisor to the National Heart Foundation, where he worked until he was well into his 80s.
Alec Campbell will be honoured at a state funeral in Hobart’s St David Anglican Cathedral on Friday morning. Around Australia, people will pay their last respects to Mr Campbell by observing a minute’s silence as he is buried. This will be at 10 am in Darwin. I have invited the Territory’s public service to observe a minute’s silence at 10 am on Friday. Flags in the Territory will be at half mast on Friday to honour Alec Campbell and, generally, the Anzacs. I would like to invite honourable members and staff - all parliamentary staff - to meet at the flagpole in front of Parliament House on Friday at 10 am to observe that minute’s silence together. It is a very important occasion and a real marking of a significant and most profound event in Australian history.
It will be a simple ceremony but an important one, and we will remember this remarkable man, Alec Campbell, who died at the age of 103, and all those who fought in the Gallipoli campaign; and fought, as well, for Australia over all these years. Our thoughts are with Mr Campbell’s family - his incredibly large family - and we send our deepest sympathies.
Madam SPEAKER: I point out to ministers that we have only had five questions and it is 2.30 pm already so perhaps we need to have shorter answers.
Fire and Rescue Service – Training Programs
Mr BURKE to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
Madam Speaker, a short answer will work here. The real issue as you know is out there amongst firefighters. They do not have access to qualification programs or training programs to equip them to compete competitively against interstate firefighters, who are qualified to vie for those positions. Can the minister give me an understanding of what programs are currently in place for our firefighters to enable them to gain promotion qualifications in order to be competitive, and are you satisfied that those training programs are adequate to meet the needs to ensure that none of our firefighters miss out?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, it is an issue that I will have to get across. Can I say this - in relation to the matters of training which came before us, and certainly came before me as opposition spokesperson on training, there are a number of competencies, qualifications, and tests that fire officers have to do to retain, I guess, their professional standards from year to year. They are like refresher training tests, exams and competencies that they have to prove every year.
We had consistent representation in the three years before the election last year, that they simply were not given the opportunity to - because of the short numbers on shifts, because they could not get the numbers to cover a shift from time to time - that they did not even have the opportunity to maintain the current requirements year to year.
The annual competencies …
Mr Burke: What have you done in nine months? Run a course, a couple of courses?
Mr STIRLING: … in order for them to stay at the forefront of their operational activities. I am aware that this is a concern within the EBA. It is something that we want to get bedded down once and for all.
The minister says - what have you done in nine months - well what the hell did he do in 26 years. They got the fire service into this hole and I am supposed to fix it overnight. This is a bloke who had, of course, the whole responsibility for government, he could have tapped his Minister for Police, Fire and Emergency Services on the shoulder at any time and say ‘look, Syd Stirling has been out the front talking to those firies again, have you got a view about what they were talking about? Do you know what the problems were? Are you on top of it?’
They never wanted to know when they were in government, they had no sympathy for our fire service whatsoever. They would never ever, despite repeated efforts in this House and outside to get this government to commit to bringing on extra fire officers, to brake this nexus, so they could man their shifts, so they could get a break to get away and do their competencies and training. They never addressed that and yet it is all my fault here and it is all the fault of the Clare Martin Labor government because we have been in nine months and have not fixed the mess their blokes had for 26 years, 2 years of which he was Chief Minister overall. There are concerns there and we will work through them.
Minor New Works Programs
Ms SCRYMGOUR to MINISTER for TRANSPORT and INFRASTRUCTURE
During the last sittings minister, you announced the injection of $4.5m into minor new works programs. Can you advise the House on the success of this decision?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for her question. The previous government left the minor works program in a real perilous state. There was little money in the program. In the 2001 financial year, the previous government had allocated $19m. A year later, they allocated nearly 50% less, $10m. There was no work here, workers were leaving town, they were going to other places and were putting pressure on contractors in Nhulunbuy, Katherine, Alice Springs or going interstate. We lost a lot of experienced people.
We came to government in September 2001, we had a look at the budget and there was no money past October. Nothing at all.
Members interjecting.
Mr VATSKALIS: You know that very well. I sit at the Galleria and drink coffee with contractors and they were telling me something you would never listen to. $6m in November, a further $4.5m in February, and from this $4.5m, $4.2m has already been allocated and is going to be spent before the end of the financial year. Parks and Wildlife were going to put a new boundary fence in Litchfield Park, shade cloths in Lake Leanyer and development of cycad gardens in George Brown Botanic Gardens. Additionally, we are upgrading clinics in Umbakumba and Numbulwar, improving safety throughout Central Australia’s health clinics, fixing the seating in Marrara. We put the money in, you did not have any money in there. You had $10m allocated and by September it was spent, zero.
I recall a discussion I had with a very senior staff member of the ex-Chief Minister, who told me they were talking about the railway and ports, but they forgot the little contractors, and they paid for it.
Fire and Rescue Service – Staffing Levels at Humpty Doo and Palmerston
Mr BURKE to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
Is it true that the fire response and capability has been significantly compromised in the Humpty Doo and Palmerston area this Dry Season in these ways:
by not manning the Humpty Doo Fire Station with professional firefighters on very high and extreme fire days? I understand when the heat factor got to a certain level in the past, that station was automatically manned; it is not happening any more;
thirdly, the removal of the permanent officer dedicated to rural hazard reduction, which had contributed greatly to the reduction in large wild fires over the past three years?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I say at the outset, I am not aware of the second part of your question. I undertake to get back to you on that. I can pick up in relation to the Hazard Abatement Officer position because it is something that the member for Nelson was quite interested in and saw fit - unlike the Leader of the Opposition - because this is a guy who is fair dinkum about his electorate, he is fair dinkum about his constituents to the extent that he bothers to take the time to put a pen to paper and write to the minister concerned and get an answer.
The fire service did recently advertise a number of station officer vacancies, one of which is for the Station Officer Hazard Abatement and that position should be filled after 1 July this year. The current situation is, a firefighter who is on light duties is performing the duties of the Hazard Abatement Officer and carrying out inspections in the rural area. She reports to the Station Commander, Palmerston Fire Station on a daily basis.
In relation to Humpty Doo in the future, this government is very clearly on the record that we are committed to the construction of a police, fire and emergency services facility at Humpty Doo. So in relation to response times I would have thought they are going to be pretty quick once that station is on the ground. It is over $1m. We are going to build two houses with it and two hectares of Crown Land on the Arnhem Highway opposite Kennedy Road has been set aside for that facility and it is on the design list for this 2002-03 financial year.
We saw the previous government experiment with a caravan at different times and various other options. We think that with the growing population in that area, something like 20 000 people - and it will grow into the future - that is a proactive step from this government to put in place a proper and permanent facility that will serve not just the rural area as it stands, but going on into the future.
AFL Kick Start Program
Mr BONSON to MINISTER for SPORT and RECREATION
Earlier today, the minister participated in the launch of the AFL Kick Start Program. Is the minister able to provide details of the program, and what are the key outcomes that are anticipated from the implementation of the program?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Millner for his question. At lunch time today we had a terrific event on the lawns between Parliament House and Government House. It was attended by a number of former AFL stars, including the 1967 Brownlow Medallist, Dr Ross Smith, and the 1990 Best and Fairest winner at the West Coast Eagles, Chris Lewis. Also there was former Kangaroo star Gary Dhurrkay.
Of course, we had a good crop of future rising stars from the Northern Territory Thunder Squad. Those in attendance were the captain for this weekend, Jason Roe, Gideon Pangiraminni, Sam Jenner and Warren Berto. We also had a group of children from Daly River participating in the launch. We were there to launch a more expanded and comprehensive AFL Kick Start Program for the Northern Territory, a program which will focus less on talent identification and more on grass roots participation. Importantly, Kick Start will be used to deliver important messages to young people in remote communities about the benefits of a healthy and active lifestyle.
I am pleased that this program is being supported by a tripartite agreement between the AFL, ATSIC and the Northern Territory government. The AFL and ATSIC have both committed $200 000 to the program, and our government has made an initial commitment of $150 000 with an in-principle commitment to source another $50 000 in the new financial year. On behalf of the AFLNT, I presented to Chris Lewis a $50 000 cheque that, with ongoing in kind support, we will be delivering through our network of community sport and recreation officers throughout the Northern Territory.
This is a terrific program. When it was evaluated in the Kimberley region last year there were a number of benefits identified. Of course, it gives a great opportunity for kids to be involved in healthy, positive activities and the chance to learn new skills. But it also contributes to higher levels of skilled attendance and academic development, less vandalism, substance abuse and antisocial behaviour and increases self esteem, confidence and community cohesion.
Our support for those in the Kick Start program is a clear demonstration of our commitment to be providing sport and recreation opportunities at all levels. I should add that the government has said to the AFL that we recognise that the delivery model developed for Kick Start is very effective and for that reason we want to see the model used to support the delivery over an expanded range of sports. Football is very popular in the community but we need to be expanding the choices available by bringing other sports such as athletics, basketball, softball and others into the program. Today was a good start towards achieving that goal and we will look forward to working with …
Mr Reed: Just table the answer.
Mr Baldwin: Hand over the written answer.
Mr AH KIT: It is nice to get – I will pick up on the interjections from the member for Daly and also the member for Katherine, the former Treasurer, former Deputy Chief Minister and the former Police, Fire and Emergency Services Minister. I noticed him today in this Question Time, and he sat there with his back to the Gallery because he was the one responsible. Now we see him interjecting because he feels that it is time for him to be smart.
Madam SPEAKER: Minister, would you get on with the answer to the question.
Mr AH KIT: Well, I am trying to get to the conclusion of my answer, but Madam Speaker, the rude interjections do not allow me to do that. But it is interesting that the Chief Minister is asking these important questions of my colleague ..
Madam SPEAKER: Just answer the question you have thank you.
Mr AH KIT: Today was a good start towards achieving that goal and we look forward to working with the AFL and ATSIC to build on an even more expanded program.
Members: Hear, hear!
Fire and Rescue Service - Industrial Relations Issues
Mr BURKE to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
I have here a letter which was given to me by a firefighter, which is quite an astounding letter because it clearly demonstrates that his pay was going to be deducted 50% because it was assumed he was going to take part in industrial action. I seek leave to table the letter.
Leave granted.
Mr BURKE: I would ask that you get that across to the minister so he can have a look at it.
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Could we have an attendant, please. Order, order!
Mr BURKE: Secondly, I also have an order issued to all firefighters that gags them from speaking to their political representatives which firefighters believe is further intimidation. I seek leave to table that.
Leave granted.
Mr BURKE: Is this the way the minister intends to handle industrial disputes, with threats and intimidation and arbitrary cuts to pay whether the person is actually involved or not?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his question. I can assure members opposite I won’t complain about not getting questions in future. But I would point out that this is the fourth parliament we have sat as a new government, the fifth day of that fourth parliament, so that is quite a few Question Times, and not one, not one in all of those opportunities at Question Time, not one question about firies until today. Then they over-gorge themselves. They can’t help themselves. They get right into it, and I don’t know how many I have had, but I am pleased and proud to be the minister with responsibility for these guys because I have an enormous amount of time and regard for them.
In relation to the first letter, I did become aware of this. This is in relation to participation in industrial action. I was advised that that letter was withdrawn very quickly on the same day that it went out. I have no other information other than that, that someone - well, obviously, the name is there, the Assistant Chief Fire Officer sent that out. But that is my understanding. I am happy to put that on the record if that is not the understanding of any recipients of those letters.
In relation to the other letter - indeed, it is the first time I have seen both letters. Whilst I was …
Mr Burke: What do you think of the last paragraph? Can’t even talk to them at a barbie. Can’t even have a sausage together without even having to inform someone.
Mr STIRLING: … aware of the first one, I am not aware of the second one. If he gives me 30 seconds while I am speaking; I can almost chew gum and walk at the same time. … whether the Station Commander should seek advice from their Divisional Commander or Assistant Chief whenever they are uncertain about authority to discuss particular fire and rescue problems with their MLA.
What I understand is, if I have read it properly, is that there would be guidelines for discussion with an MLA …
Mr Burke: Look at the last paragraph!
Mr STIRLING: … and fire officers: ‘Divisional Commanders are to be advised of local fire and rescue discussions with MLAs’. It is not all that different to police. We would hope that local members would establish …
Mr Burke interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Leader of the Opposition …
Members interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STIRLING: Madam Speaker, in all such matters such as these, the Leader of the Opposition well knows that there are protocols and guidelines in place, the same as if any member opposite wishes to speak to a public servant, they write to the minister and they request a briefing on that. They were the rules that the previous government had in place and difficult sometimes from opposition to understand your adherence to them, particularly when you are in an electorate in a remote corner of the Northern Territory trying to look after your constituents. But they were there for very good reasons and reasons that you very clearly understand when you come to government.
In all of these relationships and communications there are protocols, and there are guidelines. I have not seen the protocols and guidelines put down by the police, but I understand that there was considerable discussion some months ago as to establishing guidelines and protocols, as to how local members are expected to relate with the local police when they are seeking information on whatever is going on in their electorate. I would imagine that they are seeking to put in place similar sorts of guidelines here.
Bob Hawke - Appointment as Negotiator in Chief Magistrate Dispute
Mr KIELY to MINISTER for JUSTICE and ATTORNEY-GENERAL
The minister has proposed that former Prime Minister, Bob Hawke, conduct the mediation between the Northern Territory and NAALAS in an attempt to settle the long-running court proceedings concerning the appointment of the Chief Magistrate. Can you update the House on the current status of the mediation?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, this week, for a second time, arrangements have been made for the former Prime Minister, Bob Hawke, to come to Darwin to mediate between the parties to this litigation. He was due to arrive tonight, and his brief was to try to resolve any remaining issues between the parties to avoid the need to continue costly litigation. The government strongly believed it could reach a constructive settlement with this long running, divisive dispute. It is with regret that I must inform the House that the appeal hearing before the full Federal Court will now proceed next Tuesday.
NAALAS, through its lawyers, had advised the representatives of both NAALAS and ATSIC would participate in a mediation this Friday with Mr Hawke. However, late yesterday, lawyers representing NAALAS advised the government there were some issues which they did not believe could be resolved before Friday. They advised they could, therefore, no longer agree to the mediation proceeding before the appeal hearing on Tuesday.
Primarily, NAALAS objected to the requirement that all parties in the mediation, including the government, sign an agreement to indemnify Mr Hawke from any future legal proceedings. In other words …
Mr Burke interjecting.
Dr TOYNE: Now, hear us out. In other words, an agreement not to sue Mr Hawke. However, an indemnity agreement is a standard requirement for mediations.
The government instructed its lawyers to attempt to resolve any other issues that might have prevented the mediation proceeding. Unfortunately, the lawyers for NAALAS have not responded to a written request to this effect. Members would be aware that this is the second time that NAALAS, through its lawyers, have decided not to participate in the mediation process with Mr Hawke. Arrangements had previously been made for Mr Hawke to come to Darwin on 2 and 3 May to try to mediate this dispute prior to the Federal Court’s decision on costs, which was handed down on 7 May. However, on 1 May, NAALAS, through its lawyers, indicated it would not participate in the mediation. Then, Sunday 5 May, NAALAS’ lawyers indicated a change of heart.
Mr Hawke agreed for a second time to come to Darwin, but again, NAALAS has now indicated it cannot participate. It is with great regret, Madam Speaker, that this will now proceed to a further hearing on Tuesday, 28 May. As Attorney-General, I respect NAALAS’ right to continue to litigate its case through the courts, but I regret that the government’s attempts to constructively mediate this matter have been rejected.
Because the matter is still before the courts, I am unable to comment further, but I would like to express my gratitude to Mr Hawke. Mr Hawke made himself available to travel to Darwin on two occasions, on short notice, and he also generously offered his services and time free of charge. I would like to extend my personal appreciation as well as that of the government for his generous offer to assist in this matter.
Police, Fire and Emergency Facility at Humpty Doo
Mr WOOD to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
I suggest you make a note, I was in the process of writing you another letter about the Hazard Abatement Officer. Minister, in the mini-budget, and as you stated a short while ago, a police, fire and emergency facility is to be built at Humpty Doo. I know there is support, especially in the business community, for this facility, especially the police presence. In the application for the subdivision of land for this project, which is presently being advertised by the Development Consent Authority, I note the word police has been removed and it is now called a ‘fire and rescue facility’. Bearing in mind there are some rumours that the police want to go to Berry Springs, has the government dropped the promise of a police station at Humpty Doo, or is this a typographical error?
ANSWER
I hope the latter is correct, Madam Speaker, because it certainly is news to us, and I have a copy of the draft 2002-03 design list program. It is clearly Northern Territory Police, Fire and Emergency Services, to construct a new police, fire and emergency services facility in Humpty Doo, along with two staff houses.
That was a commitment we made two years out from the past election. It was one that went forward for costings and finished up in the costings paper that we had vetted and ticked off by Access Economics. The fact that it has gone into the planning process as fire and emergency services means I will certainly follow up and find out what the reason is for that. I have no knowledge of the view you put in that there was talk or discussion that police may want to relocate somewhere else. It was always our view, and it has not been contested, that we put the tri-service facility in the one spot at Humpty Doo.
If there is a divergence of view or opinion, and very strong grounds on which to back it up, we could be open on that point, but it has not been put before me as the minister, and I have had nothing to take back to my colleagues on that point. I will follow it through, because it would seem to me to be inaccurate to be described as ‘fire and emergency services’ when it is a very clear government commitment that it would be Police, Fire and Emergency Services. Maybe that commitment could be met by putting the police somewhere else, but I would have thought that would probably lead to additional costs, and you would have to look very closely at the advantage in terms of service and cost efficiencies that you were going to get from a dual location as opposed to putting them in the one place. I do thank the member for his alertness and his willingness to bring it forward and ask the question, and I will certainly find out and get back to him as soon as I possibly can.
Fire and Rescue Service - Union Representation Issues
Mr BURKE to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
Is the minister aware - and I am sure he is - that at a recent well attended meeting of the firefighters section of the Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union, a no confidence motion was unanimously endorsed against the executive management of the NT Fire and Rescue Service for the way in which they have handled recent enterprise bargaining negotiations? Further, minister, you mentioned moves to join the United Firefighters Association. Surely you are aware that overwhelmingly and, I am advised, almost unanimously, our Northern Territory firefighters want to be represented by the UFU, as is the case in every state and territory in Australia except the Northern Territory.
When this round of EBA is finally settled, will you give a commitment to assist our firefighters to be members of a union of their choice?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, again I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his question. He did mention a recent meeting without giving any idea of what is recent, six months, nine months, last week. I was aware that a motion of no confidence in fire service management was on the books, going back quite some time. I would not have called it recent; I would have thought it was more in the eight, nine, 10 month area. I could stand corrected on that, but certainly some considerable time.
I did understand that, subsequent to that motion being on the books, that at a subsequent meeting, some time after the new fire service chief came into the position that that no confidence motion was lifted. What he is suggesting, I think, is that it has been reinstated. If that is the case, that is something that I am not aware of and possibly happened quite recently, but I will find out whether we are talking at cross-purposes or in fact the same motion there.
In relation to the UFU, I thought I made this very clear in an earlier answer. Government has no view on this. If the members of a particular industry or workplace seek coverage under another union …
Mr Burke interjecting.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STIRLING: I would not have thought that the Leader of the Opposition would know a lot about industrial relation issues. I think a statement like that suggests he knows less than I do, which is not a lot. I am not an industrial relations expert at all and I rely heavily on others to give me that advice as required. What I do know is this: that it would ill behove me as minister, or this government, to try and push union members one way or another over which union they ought to belong to. We do not offer a view at all.
The fact is that the Miscellaneous Workers Union, by virtue of the fact of its name, Miscellaneous, has been the union to pick up a whole host of workplace coverage throughout the Territory because other unions with specific industry coverage have not been resident and located in the Territory. If I did have a view, it would be that. The fact that the Miscellaneous Workers Union is here, they are a phone call away, they can be at a meeting in 15 or 20 minutes, as opposed to a union that is located elsewhere in Australia, I think that is a practical difficulty that the membership will have to look at, but other than that, we certainly have no view and offer no view.
We do not oppose, we do not support, which union the membership might want to go with. There is a process - this is as much as I know about industrial relations, but there would be a process outlayed in industrial relations law by which the membership and the union would go through, and they would have meetings and put their points of view and have their votes accordingly. That process would be worked through and they would find themselves, at the end of that process, under the coverage of a separate union if that was the wish of the membership. Other than that, we hold no view.
Teacher Recruitment Strategies
Dr BURNS to MINISTER for EMPLOYMENT, EDUCATION and TRAINING
What has this government done to encourage Territory students to study for teaching qualifications?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Johnston for his question in relation to teacher students because, in fact, in March I had the pleasure of presenting the 20 inaugural Northern Territory government Teacher Bursary Scholarships. I was really taken by the fact that so many - in most cases parents, because these students were already away at university and teacher’s colleges working towards their teacher qualifications - that so many people, who were parents in the main representing these students, saw fit to come up to me and say this is such a wonderful idea, and it is a pity that this had not been in place many years ago because we know the perennial difficulties that the Northern Territory has in recruitment of teachers.
Each of those winners represent the future of the Territory, the Territory kids, and they will train, in some cases in the Territory, and certainly be in our schools and working. We are proud to support them in their endeavours because the bursaries attest to those students abilities and hard work during their secondary schooling. They were introduced by this government to ensure that we are able to attract more local Territorians into the teaching profession.
Priority was given to applicants with the highest tertiary education ranked scores who were willing to teach in remote areas, because that remains a difficulty, and also in one or more of those specialty areas, I discussed this in the House the other day. These are English as a Second Language, Special Education Needs, Information and Community Technology, and Maths and Science, which is always a difficulty. Encouraging Territorians through teacher bursaries will help us in meeting our fundamental aim of retention and recruitment strategy for education. We look forward to keeping these bursaries in place for quite a while. There are 20 in this case; $12 000 each. It cost less than $250 000 to government. We are very pleased to support these students in this way.
Madam Speaker, I pick on an issue raised earlier in the House by the shadow minister for Education. He talked about teacher numbers, and we talked about fire service numbers today, and the Leader of the Opposition picked this up. In relation to the 100 extra teachers, if I could just put this answer on the record. Where I talked about x number of fire officers, and in four years time it will be x plus the extra 16. It is not quite the same with teachers and I want to make sure that the opposition understands and the Parliamentary Record is correct in relation to this.
The shadow minister asked what the figures were from year to year. In January 2001, the total number of teachers employed was 2087, and in January 2002, the total number of teachers coincidentally was the same on the books at 2087. Recruitment has been in full swing, as I outlined last week, in relation to the first 20 of the additional 100 teachers that are going to come on over the term of this government and 11 of those teachers were already appointed. The difference between the extra 50 police, and the extra 16 fire officers, as opposed to the extra 100 teachers, is this: our schools are determined on a formula basis and that formula depends on the number of students in the school. We have not changed the formula, and under the formula, the numbers of teachers obviously vary according to how many students are enrolled. So if student numbers drop and enrolments drop, there are less teachers in the system.
How can we ensure then that these 100 extra teachers are measurable and government is seen to meet its commitment in relation to this? The only way you can do it is to insist right at the outset that those 100 teachers who are coming on over the term of this government are additional to formula, so that whatever the number of the students in the school, and whatever the overall number of teachers, government can clearly point to the fact that those 100 teachers that have come on, and in the first instance, as I said, they are mostly special needs, the second round may well involve English as a Second Language, they have to be tagged somehow. Those numbers as they come on have to be tagged so the government, and opposition, can clearly see that those additional 100 that were committed to by government are in the system because they will be above the formula right through. So those 100 teachers will always be there above the formula, and that is the only way that we can demonstrate that it has been done. It is not like the police …
Madam SPEAKER: Minister, if you have additional information to a question, you know the rules, that you answer the question you had at the end of the Question Time. You should wind up at this stage.
Fire and Rescue Service - Enterprise Bargaining Agreement
Mr BURKE to MINISTER for POLICE, FIRE and EMERGENCY SERVICES
In relation to the last question I asked the minister about support for the United Firefighters Union, is the reason for the equivocation in your answer because the former Secretary of the Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union tasked with representing the interests of firefighters is Mr Rob Hitchcock, and that Mr Rob Hitchcock is now a highly paid employee in your office, while the firefighters working in dangerous circumstances are left stranded without their EBA being settled?
ANSWER
Madam Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his question. First part, ex-secretary: yes, he’s got that right. Second part, highly paid: I think Mr Hitchcock might well disagree with that. I don’t know what his salary is …
Mr Burke: How much?
Mr STIRLING: Well, I don’t know what his salary is.
Mr Burke: You don’t know?
Mr STIRLING: I don’t walk around and ask for their pay slips and say: ‘How much are you getting paid each fortnight?’
Mr Burke: You have no idea what your employee earns.
Madam SPEAKER: Order!
Mr STIRLING: There is absolutely no relationship between the two. As I have said, it would be too cute by half for a government, or a minister of the government of the day, to get down in the workplace and cajole, support or encourage members of a work place to go with one union or the other. That would be totally opposed to the system we operate.
It is up to the members, it is not up to me to say: ‘Stick with the Misso’s’, or ‘Get out, you should get out of those Misso’s. Sack them and go with the UFU’. It is the members call - first, second and third.
I offer no view and, certainly won’t be down agitating, encouraging or cajoling any which way. If they go with the UFU, government will work with that union in the same way that it works with unions that have carriage - the Misso’s in this case have carriage and responsibility at the moment. It is not our role, it is not my role as minister to support or oppose.
Mr STIRLING (Leader of Government Business): Madam Speaker, I would ask that further questions be placed on the Question Paper.
Last updated: 09 Aug 2016